Mars, An Alpine Vacation

Originally posted by jmlima
Taking one at a time, plenty to digest in here....
I would say that this are not shadows, maybe some error on the data transmission.

LOL You got that right mate... lots of images....

As to the fact that they are error transmissions... thats not what error transmissions look like... errors are in bars of static and missing data across the page like at the bottom of this image...




So lets have a closer look at the shadows then...




This next one is my favorite... Undo posted it earlier from a distance and it was upside down... here is a closeup... lets here the rational explanations on this one...

Originally posted by zorgon
You don't have to guess the direction of the sun... the Malin Space pictures come with the exact angle of the sun, how many meters each pixel is in the various images etc. No guess work... What is the original number of the picture in question?

I didn't said that I had guessed, when I said "if I am not wrong" it wasn't about any guess about the Sun's position but about my interpretation of the way to get the Sun's position using the data that comes with the photo.

The values used were:
North azimuth: 92.94°
Sun azimuth: 312.88°

Here is a better look at the Alpine Vacation Spot... You guys just don't see it do you?

I understood it since the first time I saw it called "Alpine Vacation Spot", but that does not mean that I agree with the interpretation.

And here is another weird picture of tubes...

Is that on Mars?

So no comments on the Martian Fossils I posted earlier? Figures

I usually try not to spread my attention between many photos, specially when they are not posted by the thread starter or when they are not directly linked (in my view) to what to thread starter meant, so I will not comment that photo, at least for now.

How about providing links to the original photos that come with more details on location, size, sun angle, rather than third party colorized photos from "land of legends"

The hi Res photos currently coming down to us are extremely detailed and eventually they will have photos of the entire planet set up much like Google Earth. If you haven't seen them yet I recommend you take a look as they are quite stunning. No colorization needed.

[edit on 3-12-2006 by Terapin]

Originally posted by zorgon
This next one is my favorite... Undo posted it earlier from a distance and it was upside down... here is a closeup... lets here the rational explanations on this one...

That is not a closeup, its a resize.

The original is this:


I think those are marks of something that melted and flowed down. On the original you can see that there are many of those things, all look like they are just flowing downhill.

What was the material that melted, I have no idea.

In here , those 'tubes' on Mars have been compared with sand dunes, I must confess I've searched for sand dunes images and didn't see anything similar, can someone please post an image of any Earth sand dunes looking like those on Mars?

Originally posted by ArMaP
...
I think those are marks of something that melted and flowed down. On the original you can see that there are many of those things, all look like they are just flowing downhill.

What was the material that melted, I have no idea.

You being a fellow countrymen I hate to ask this , but, 'things that melted and flowed down'??? That would require that either it was a very recent event, or that the surface they are 'flowing' down was impermeable, which would a considerable event in Mars landscape. Otherwise given the porous nature of the terrain those 'flowing' materials would be absorved by the terrain, isn't it?

Unless it's oil!

[edit on 3-12-2006 by jmlima]

Originally posted by Terapin
How about providing links to the original photos that come with more details on location, size, sun angle, rather than third party colorized photos from "land of legends"

How about you paying attention? How about you reading the link under the photo... all the information, description and photo direct sources from Malin are there at Land of Legends website. I do not intend to fill up the thread with repeated stuff.

Undo already posted the source of the shadow pictures on page one of this thread...and she also linked to the Malin photo that contains the Alpine scene... I merely enhanced the clipping and as to the colorized highlighting, the original clips are there as well.

All the details and sun angles etc are clearly posted and accessable on the MSS website that we have provide ample links to. If you are to lazy to follow up on the links that is not my concern.

Originally posted by jmlima
You being a fellow countrymen

I hate to ask this , but, 'things that melted and flowed down'??? That would require that either it was a very recent event, or that the surface they are 'flowing' down was impermeable, which would a considerable event in Mars landscape.

I think that it could be a recent event and one that happens with a certain frequency, because some of those marks look faded when compared with others, as if the darker are the most recent and the lighter the oldest.

And the Mars surface can be made primarily of dust and be impermeable to that "liquid", the same thing happens on Earth, some types of soil, like clay and talcum are somewhat impermeable because they made by extremely small particles that adhere to the liquids surface, enveloping it, and preventing it from passing between their particles.

And yes, it could be oil, but what is its melting point?

PS: I was just going to post this when I saw this page. In it they say:

One hypothesis for the origin of the channels, which has previously been proposed by the MOC team, is that CO2 (or maybe H2O) frost is deposited on the dunes in shadows or at night. Some frost may also be incorporated into the internal parts of the dunes due to natural avalanching. When the frost is eventually heated by sunlight, rapid sublimation triggers an avalanche of fluidized sand, forming a gully. HiRISE will continue to target small channel features such as these and may return to search for any changes over time.

PS: Another Portuguese? I have counted some 20 up to now, wherever we go (on Earth ) we find at least a Portuguese.

I particularly liked the example where it can be shown that the bulk of the landmass in the lower lying areas where the tubes would be spurting that liquid, are covered with a glossy, almost shimmery or waxy looking coating that makes them more uniform in color when brighter light is applied to the entire area, EXCEPT the higher level area in the center, which is darker, more delineated and seems better defined, so that one gets the impression that the lower lying stuff is all coated in something. This could be the result of several things:

1. A layer of dust,

2. A layer of waxy substance,

3. A layer of watery substance or layer of ice,

4. A layer of liquid metal or similar.

In addition, the question remains, that if it is indeed a layer of something, then the tubes would likely be the source, as they are obviously projecting something liquid or dust like into the basin.



[edit on 3-12-2006 by undo]

Originally posted by undo
In addition, the question remains, that if it is indeed a layer of something, then the tubes would likely be the source, as they are obviously projecting something liquid or dust like into the basin.

Its not that obvious, to me they do not look as if they are projecting something, to me it looks just like a layer of dust, dirt, something, that is on the ground, to me that image does not show anything with movement.

Also, have you seen my post about the direction of the sunlight?

yes, i saw that, armap.

thank you for the information.

real life has been keeping me busy the last 24 hours. would take the time to keep arguing the point, but i think we've already determined several important things:

it's weird.
it's 2D.
the sunlight is coming from somewhere.

Originally posted by undo
real life has been keeping me busy the last 24 hours.

Someone with a life!!

You know Herr Hoagland has made a lot of bucks and gathered a huge following on that silly single triangular crater Ukert...





I wonder how much we could get for a heart shaped one on Mars?

Heart with ribbon....




I always thought that the Planet Venus was the Planet of Love and Mars the Planet of war... but judging by the following images we might have to revise that thinking, either that or Mars is looking to present a new image

I mean its not like nature is good at making heart shapes... so someone must have scraped the soil to give us this one.... Or NASA has been busy with the paint brushes...




E0401788

And everyone knows that meteorites can surely dig out a hole shaped like a heart... piece of cake....



R1003259

Originally posted by ArMaP
And yes, it could be oil, but what is its melting point?

Oil flowing freely on Mars? Oil MELTING???



Sorry a weak moment... won't happen again...

:bash:

Originally posted by zorgon

Oil flowing freely on Mars? Oil MELTING???

Sorry a weak moment... won't happen again...

:bash:

I don't get it, what is the problem with that?

Originally posted by ArMaP
I don't get it, what is the problem with that?

Ummm well for one the fact that the black "shadows" are on top of the ice...

and since that is CO2 ice that is colder than -200 degrees celsius...?

And besides... Saviour of the Surreal already posted the explanation of the spewing columns... mean Ice floating in the air with black sand jets blasting to the surface is about as Alien as it gets...

Now then back to the previously scheduled program.... "From Mars with Love"

This one is my favorite... its obviously artificial No doubt about it...




R0902121

Originally posted by jmlima
In here , those 'tubes' on Mars have been compared with sand dunes, I must confess I've searched for sand dunes images and didn't see anything similar, can someone please post an image of any Earth sand dunes looking like those on Mars?

The closest I could find was this.

This is in Egypt.
At the bottom of the image you can see the latitude and longitude of that place.

Originally posted by zorgon
Ummm well for one the fact that the black "shadows" are on top of the ice...

and since that is CO2 ice that is colder than -200 degrees celsius...?

I wasn't aware that this was on ice.
I supposed that the "shadows" photo was taken near Mars' equator, not near the poles as the "trees".

Originally posted by zorgon
And besides... Saviour of the Surreal already posted the explanation of the spewing columns... mean Ice floating in the air with black sand jets blasting to the surface is about as Alien as it gets...

Very funny Yorgone.

I said that *might* be an explanation for the "stream" if that's what it was (nothing would be suprise me about Mars) but I agree with ArMaP and others that it most likely isn't.

Originally posted by ArMaP
I supposed that the "shadows" photo was taken near Mars' equator, not near the poles as the "trees".

Indeed but you knew that.

By the way, I too checked to see if that exact area of Aram Chaos had been reimaged but no joy. I did find this one which was taken just to the left of it and it's even more bizarre.

www.msss.com...


Talk about Alien!

There's others that are close but not quite exact but it's pretty easy to find them yourself if anybody's interested. Here's how...

Go here and pick a date range...

www.msss.com...

I picked "October 2004 - March 2005" which gives you this...

www.msss.com...

Using your mouse hover over the map until you find the "MC-11: Oxia Palas" region (it's just above the equator to the left/west of center) and click on it to get this...

www.msss.com...

Now look in the big crater at the very bottom center and use your mouse to click on the blue strip that's closet to the right/eastern edge of it. Here's a closeup of the "delta" where the above image and undo's was taken...



Now that you know where it is you can go back and check the other date ranges for any images of the same area to see if I might have missed anything.