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What is really Prometheus?

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posted on Dec, 4 2006 @ 03:20 PM
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Originally posted by Marduk
you can "assure me"
you haven't
at every request from you for links none have been forthcoming
because you have never proved one single bit of any of the ludicrous claims you have made since you started posting here
one thread you posted was booted out because you didn't realise that it had nothing to do with ancient history whatsoever
this seems to be the limit of your knowledge



I linked you to Wiki once and you complained. I figured it was as neutral as anything in proving you WRONG AGAIN.

I also told you all you have to do is do a search on Nimrod, Marduk and you will have all the information you want, if you are interested in the truth.




posted on Dec, 4 2006 @ 03:42 PM
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I complained because you claimed that Nimrod is Marduk and then linked to a wikipedia page that said nothing of the sort
the section you copied and pasted deliberately left out the section that contradicted what you had said
so selective editing is your evidence
why am I laughing at you right now
you're not funny
you're a tragedy





I also told you all you have to do is do a search on Nimrod, Marduk and you will have all the information you want

funnily enough I have researched ther Old testament in some depth before I even knew Sun Matrix existed
which is why I know that you're clueless
which is also the reason I know that your real name is Bryce

heres a factual statement that you missed out from your theory
Bel Marduk existed before the flood which is when he defeated Tiamat


When in the height heaven was not named,
And the earth beneath did not yet bear a name,

Nimrod is a descendant of Ham


The book of Genesis lists Nimrod as a descendant of Ham, the third son of Noah.


but the story of Noah is based on the Akkadian Gilgamesh Epic which contains the Akkadian version of the flood story and predates the Bible by almost 2000 years
so your version of events is based on a rewrite
which is why its so fatally flawed
if you don't believe that this is a true statement then you should compare the lines from Gilgamesh with the lines from Genesis

Gilgamesh: -
When a seventh day arrived
I sent forth a dove and released it.
The dove went off, but came back to me;
no perch was visible so it circled back to me.

Genesis 7
8 And he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters were abated from off the face of the ground. 9 But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him to the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth

Gilgamesh
I sent forth a raven and released it.
The raven went off, and saw the waters slither back.
It eats, it scratches, it bobs, but does not circle back to me.

Genesis 7
7 And he sent forth a raven, and it went forth to and fro, until the waters were dried up from off the earth

so shall we take it as read now that you don't know what you're talking about because your world view is limited to a Jewish story that isn't even an original
or would you like to know who the God of the old Testament is based on
FYI YHWH is based on Enlil
in the Gilgamesh story it is Enlil who sends the flood
it is written that it was him that did this almost 2000 years before someone else copying the story claimed that YHWH did it
and depending on which even later redacted version of the "truth" you are using that may not even be YHWH
It could even be some guy called Jehova
but at no time does any of it mean that the entirely fictional character of Nimrod was anyone but a fictional character
so
why don't you take your own advice and do some research
but this time
do some real research
because at present you're not even fit to debate this with me at my level
because at present christian
you haven't even got your foot on the first rung of the ladder
and that is "the truth"



posted on Dec, 4 2006 @ 08:16 PM
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Originally posted by Marduk
I complained because you claimed that Nimrod is Marduk and then linked to a wikipedia page that said nothing of the sort
the section you copied and pasted deliberately left out the section that contradicted what you had said
so selective editing is your evidence
why am I laughing at you right now
you're not funny
you're a tragedy

No I linked Marduk Osiris Jupiter Zeus figuring you were smart enough to get the picture when I said they can all be linked to Nimrod. Did you know Osiris is linked to Marduk?



which is why I know that you're clueless
which is also the reason I know that your real name is Bryce


Sorry wrong on both accounts.........go fish.


heres a factual statement that you missed out from your theory
You seem confused that this is my theory. This is merely truth.



but the story of Noah is based on the Akkadian Gilgamesh Epic which contains the Akkadian version of the flood story and predates the Bible by almost 2000 years


You seem to be have quite a problem with your dates. I think first we need to prove who the Babylonian king in Isaiah 14 is and then maybe we can get back and staighten up your date problem.



because at present you're not even fit to debate this with me at my level


And it is not my intention on coming down there either.


because at present christian
you haven't even got your foot on the first rung of the ladder
and that is "the truth"



Well, we finally agree on something. I've just kind of sat here and let you run your mouth to this point. Let's see if we can't prove who the Babylonian king in Isaiah 14 is.



posted on Dec, 4 2006 @ 08:31 PM
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Isaiah 14:3 And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,

4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, [ /b]and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased! 5 The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers. 6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth. 7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing. 8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us. 9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations. 10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us? 11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee. 12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [ /b]how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High


Marduk
Here part of Isaiah 14 that we are talking about. The Babylonian king that is identifed is not Nebuchadnezzar. I believer we can prove that your skeptic link is wrong. Be right back.


[edit on 4-12-2006 by Sun Matrix]



posted on Dec, 4 2006 @ 08:35 PM
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Isaiah 14:3 And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,

4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased! 5 The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers. 6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth. 7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing. 8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us. 9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations. 10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us? 11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee. 12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High


Marduk
Here part of Isaiah 14 that we are talking about. The Babylonian king that is identifed is not Nebuchadnezzar. I believer we can prove that your skeptic link is wrong. Be right back.



posted on Dec, 4 2006 @ 09:46 PM
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Marduk,

You were saying that the King of Babylon referred to in Isaiah 14 is Nebuchadnezzar.

The Prophet Isaiah lived in the late eighth and early seventh century BC. His ministry is believed to have begun in 740 BC at the death of King Uzzaih.

The Jew were exiled to Babylon in 587 BC.





Isaiah lived during the late eighth and early seventh centuries BCE, which was a difficult period in the history of Jerusalem. He was part of the upper class but urged care of the downtrodden. At the end, he was loyal to King Hezekiah, but disagreed with the King's attempts to forge alliances with Egypt and Babylon in response to the Assyrian threat.
en.wikipedia.org...




Nebuchadrezzar soon dealt with these rebellions, capturing Jerusalem in 597 BC and bringing King Jehoiachin to Babylon. When Pharaoh Apries attempted another invasion of the Levant in 589 BC, Judah and other states of the region once again rebelled. Another siege of Jerusalem began in 588 BC, ending in 587 BC with the destruction of both the city and the Temple and the deportation of many prominent citizens to Babylon
en.wikipedia.org...

So, to start things off either Isaiah made a correct prophecy about what would happen to the Jews or we are talking about a different King than Nebuchadnezzar

That should give you something to chew on for now.


[edit on 4-12-2006 by Sun Matrix]



posted on Dec, 5 2006 @ 04:27 AM
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so you're saying that because some guy called Isaiah lived earlier that the story must have been written then
think again




Isaiah 34:14, describing the desolation of Edom, is the only occurrence of Lilith in the Hebrew Bible:

Hebrew (ISO 259): pagšu ṣiyyim et-ʾiyyim w-saʿir ʿal-rēʿhu yiqra ʾakšam hirgiʿah lilit u-maṣʾah lah manoḫ
morpho-syntactic analysis: "yelpers meet-[perfect] howlers; hairy-ones cry-[imperfect] to fellow. liyliyth reposes-[perfect], acquires-[perfect] resting-place."
KJV: "The wild beasts of the desert shall also meet with the wild beasts of the island, and the satyr shall cry to his fellow; the screech owl also shall rest there, and find for herself a place of rest."
Schrader (Jahrbuch für Protestantische Theologie, 1. 128) and Levy (ZDMG 9. 470, 484) suggest that Lilith was a goddess of the night, known also by the Jewish exiles in Babylon. Evidence for Lilith being a goddess rather than a demon is lacking. Isaiah dates to the 6th century BC,, and the presence of Jews in Babylon would coincide with the attested references to the Līlītu in Babylonian demonology.

en.wikipedia.org...
so once again you are wrong and attempting to explain your personal belief as correct by twisting the evidence when the facts say different
you never learn do you
and fyi
this is taken from a website written by believers like you and even they say you dont know what you're talking about


Note: the oldest known manuscript of Isaiah dates from about 150 BC. It displays a section break between chapters 33 and 34 (a logical place for such a division) but none between 39 and 40. This observation is but one of many to support the unity of Isaiah. Indeed our Lord Jesus Christ in his quotes of Isaiah passages from both [scrolls] indicates no hint of a second, third or any other author!

www.tulip.org...

so i don't need to chew
as I said
I have already researched this to death and know all the answers
I can tell by the amount of time its taken you to respond to my posts that you are finding this stuff out for the first time
but I'll acknowledge if you like that you now have your foot on the ladder
even if it is the bottom rung
you can probably see my ass way up above you from there



posted on Dec, 5 2006 @ 08:17 PM
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Originally posted by Marduk

Isaiah 34:14, describing the desolation of Edom, is the only occurrence of Lilith in the Hebrew Bible:


This from Wiki means absolutely nothing. Isaiah 34 is about the destruction of the Nations and has not occured yet.



Isaiah dates to the 6th century BC,, and the presence of Jews in Babylon would coincide with the attested references to the Līlītu in Babylonian demonology.


Again, Isaiah 34 has nothing to do with Lilith during the time of the Babylonian captivity. Please take the time to read it for yourself. (or do I need to post it.)



so once again you are wrong and attempting to explain your personal belief as correct by twisting the evidence when the facts say different
you never learn do you


I have twisted nothing. The facts say that Isaiah prophesied the year King Uzziah died, as we can see.


Isaiah 6:1 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.


And we can find the approximate year of King Uzziah's death. Souce after source will place it in 740 BC.



Isaiah must have begun his career a few years before Uzziah's death, probably in the 740s BC. He lived till the fourteenth year of Hezekiah, and in all likelihood outlived that monarch (who died 698 BC), and may have been contemporary for some years with Manasseh. Thus Isaiah may have prophesied for the long period of at least sixty-four years.

en.wikipedia.org...

As I said, what you posted about Isaiah 34 was incorrect. Isaiah 34 is about the judgement of the nations. It has not occured. I realize the info came from WIKI, but so did the correct info that I posted earlier and now.



posted on Dec, 5 2006 @ 08:28 PM
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Originally posted by Marduk
this is taken from a website written by believers like you and even they say you dont know what you're talking about


Please feel free to direct them over here. I will be happy to clear up their confusion.



posted on Dec, 5 2006 @ 08:37 PM
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you are constantly needing to correct the information that you post Bryce
If i were you I'd go back and rewrite that article you wrote that you've been trolling here attempting to get people to do their research from.

because no ones buying any of it

the king described as the morning star is Nebuchadrezzar
if you don't like it that doesn't mean its not true
just like you don't like the evidence that proves that Nimrod is a fictional character in a fictional book written by Hebrews of whom you are not a member
thought you'd like this
www.washingtonpost.com...
and this
www.timesonline.co.uk...
and this
www.askwhy.co.uk...
and this
www.skepticsannotatedbible.com...
and this
web.raex.com...


Lucifer (Latin) This name is present in scripture and subsequent popular imagination owing to a mistranslation of Isaiah 14:12; in a series of passages referencing a prophecized collapse of Nebuchadrezzar II's Babylon, a simile to the setting of the morning star is made. This was translated into the Vulgate Bible as "Lucifer", the Latin name for the morning star, and was thereafter enshrined as a name of Satan. In Isaiah's time, the idea of a revolt in heaven by dissident and corrupt angels, and their subsequent fall into the abyss of Hell, had not been imagined as yet. The word "Lucifer" means in Latin "Light-bearer" or "Shining one", hardly appropriate terms for the Adversary.

you might also want to consider this
en.wikipedia.org...


According to legend, Semiramis was the daughter of the fish-goddess Derketo of Ascalon in Syria and a mortal. Derketo abandoned her at birth and drowned herself. The child was fed by doves until she was found and brought up by Simmas, the royal shepherd

you see real people tend to have human parents and can actually be reconciled with a living person
Nimrod and Semiramis can not
mind you
neither can Jesus

this however I wouldn't recommend to anyone as it is without a doubt this biggest pile of incorrect manure I have ever had the misfortune to read
womenshistory.about.com...://ldolphin.org/semir.html

so if I were you I wouldn't bother trolling anymore
you just got busted



posted on Dec, 5 2006 @ 08:40 PM
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Originally posted by Marduk

I can tell by the amount of time its taken you to respond to my posts that you are finding this stuff out for the first time.


You have not been correct yet. I like to post while watching basketball or football.
Some days I have more time, some days no time. I told you, I know who the Babylonian king is, but I feel I should take the time to respond to your incorrect WIKI info with the correct WIKI info



but I'll acknowledge if you like that you now have your foot on the ladder

Thanks


you can probably see my ass way up above you from there

and no thanks



posted on Dec, 5 2006 @ 08:45 PM
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Some days I have more time, some days no time. I told you, I know who the Babylonian king is, but I feel I should take the time to respond to your incorrect WIKI info with the correct WIKI info

I'm waiting ????
so far you've consistently proved that you don't know anything at all except that you're a troll



posted on Dec, 5 2006 @ 09:08 PM
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Originally posted by Marduk


so if I were you I wouldn't bother trolling anymore
you just got busted


Those facts are just kicking your teeth in aren't they


Deal with it. I have proved that Isaiah was not talking about Nebuchadnezzar simply by the date of King Uzziahs death and the date of the Babylonian captivity.

The problem is the facts keep proving your beliefs wrong.........get used to it. That fear inside you that you don't have the answers is growing.

Let's look a little deeper into who the King of Babylon being discussed is. Lets look at the facts.



posted on Dec, 5 2006 @ 09:27 PM
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Isaiah 4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon , and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased! 5 The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers. 6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth. 7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing. 8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us. 9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations. 10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us? 11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee. 12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High


So there is a Babylonian King that is being called Lucifer the morning star.

And when the earth is at rest and Lucifer is laid down the fir trees and the cedars of Lebanon rejoice.

How can this be Nebuchadnezzar that is being talked about? What does he have to do with fir trees and cedars?




posted on Dec, 5 2006 @ 09:39 PM
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once again you are proving that you don't know anything about History
the book of Isaiah was writen during the babylonian exile when Nebuchadrezzar was king
it couldnt have been written earlier than that because it contains only details about Babylon and nowhere else and before that point the Jews of Jerusalem knew nothing of Babylonian details

so whichever way you want to pretend it is
you are totally ignorant
of just about everything
you're ignorant that the bible is fiction
you're ignorant of real history
you're even apparently ignorant that the world trade centre was attacked by islamic extremists preferring to blame it on gays and liberals and non christians
you are the very worst kind of person
a christian fundementalist who can't see beyond the end of his own nose and whatever biblically sponsored personal belief you have in mind

well heres a heads up for you buddy
the religion forum is somewhere else
this forum is about real history
and this thread is about Prometheus and not your desire to troll your own brand of fundementalism where no one is interested
have you got that Bryce ?



posted on Dec, 5 2006 @ 10:27 PM
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Originally posted by Marduk
once again you are proving that you don't know anything about History
the book of Isaiah was writen during the babylonian exile when Nebuchadrezzar was king
it couldnt have been written earlier than that because it contains only details about Babylon and nowhere else and before that point the Jews of Jerusalem knew nothing of Babylonian details


Argue with the historians when Isaiah lived and king Uzziah died. In the meantime here is a prophecy about Iraq. Can you say Gulf war 1 and 2. And before you run your mouth go read Jeremiah 50 and 51.



Isaiah 13:1 The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son of Amoz did see. 2 Lift ye up a banner upon the high mountain, exalt the voice unto them, shake the hand, that they may go into the gates of the nobles. 3 I have commanded my sanctified ones, I have also called my mighty ones for mine anger, even them that rejoice in my highness. 4 The noise of a multitude in the mountains, like as of a great people; a tumultuous noise of the kingdoms of nations gathered together: the LORD of hosts mustereth the host of the battle. 5 They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the LORD, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land.



so whichever way you want to pretend it is
you are totally ignorant
of just about everything
you're ignorant that the bible is fiction
you're ignorant of real history
you're even apparently ignorant that the world trade centre was attacked by islamic extremists preferring to blame it on gays and liberals and non christians
you are the very worst kind of person
a christian fundementalist who can't see beyond the end of his own nose and whatever biblically sponsored personal belief you have in mind


I am the worst kind of person for you. I bring the facts that makes the world you live in shake with fear. You run around stomping your feet crying as I bring fact after fact to shoot holes in all the beliefs that you hide behind. The fear grows every day. Now you know that Isaiah prophesied about Gulf war 1 and 2 and your world is shaken again. How can it be.......but it is. Get used to it.



posted on Dec, 5 2006 @ 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by Marduk

well heres a heads up for you buddy
the religion forum is somewhere else
this forum is about real history
and this thread is about Prometheus and not your desire to troll your own brand of fundementalism where no one is interested
have you got that Bryce ?


Well, here's a heads up for you buddy.
You are the one that brought up the Bible, here's your quote.



if you check your bible (the original source on Satan/Lucife) you will find that he is connected with figures from Mesopotamia only such as Nebuchadrezzar where his name was translated when the bible was translated into greek from his actual title (the morning star) into Lucifer. this is not to say by any means that anyone mentioned in the bible was Satan just that sometimes a lot gets lost in translation.


I checked my Bible and found you in error..........AGAIN. And proved you in error,,,,,,,,,,AGAIN.

And since you keep getting your teeth kicked in again after again you want to cry because you are loosing and want to pick up your marbles and go home.

You spend a lot of time attacking posters around here....I think it's time you learn to deal with defeat.

And for the sake of you ignorance...........we are talking about Prometheus.



posted on Dec, 6 2006 @ 06:48 AM
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I am the worst kind of person for you. I bring the facts that makes the world you live in shake with fear. You run around stomping your feet crying as I bring fact after fact to shoot holes in all the beliefs that you hide behind. The fear grows every day. Now you know that Isaiah prophesied about Gulf war 1 and 2 and your world is shaken again. How can it be.......but it is. Get used to it.

I'm quaking with laughter not fear
if you think that the Bible predicts the first and second gulf wars then you truly are the biggest crackpot thats ever posted here
and this is the last time i'm going to tell you that youre in the wrong forum with this kind of bull#
yoiu should be either in the "religious idiot" forum or the "i need psychiatric help forum"
your constant inability to realise that at every step you have been wrong is giving me and my friends no end of amusement
you're a laughing stock here I hope you realise that



posted on Dec, 6 2006 @ 07:47 AM
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ATTACK THE ARGUMENTS -- NOT THE PERSON

Thank you.



A longer post went missing and I need to head off, so I'll just fill in this one comment.


Originally posted by Sun Matrix
So there is a Babylonian King that is being called Lucifer the morning star.


No, there isn't.

If you're arguing Bible material then you need to either get a Strong's Concordance or use www.blueletterbible.org... to refer to the original language and original words.

The real word that St. Jerome translated as "Lucifer" (Latin for Light bearer or the planet Venus) is actually "Heylel" and means "Bright Star", which is one of the titles of any Babylonian king. Kings in that age had a string of titles ("gift of the gods, ruler of the two lands, bringer of the high god's justice, divine inspiration," etc, etc, etc) and that was just one part of the titles.
www.blueletterbible.org...

Scroll down through the versions and you'll see this. If you look at what the original Hebrew says, you'll see that the KJV is the least accurate translation.
www.blueletterbible.org...

And Lucifer didn't mean devil/Satan until 1000 AD and later -- long after St. Jerome died. He was unable to update the translation. In his day, "Lucifer" meant "Venus, the morning star."

Oh yes... and Nebuchadnezzar II is probably not the king talked about in the Bible. There were 3 kings with similar names, and the confusion was added by the fact that Hebrew at that time didn't use vowels and there were spelling variants in the language.

[edit on 6-12-2006 by Byrd]



posted on Dec, 6 2006 @ 07:49 AM
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Yea, your fear is posted plainly. Always crying for support. I say let the facts speak. You have been proven wrong again and again and then you cry in fear looking for support.

The facts have spoken. Isaiah was prophesing when King Uzziah died which was 740BC. The Jews were exiled in 587 BC. So you comment about checking your Bible about Nebuchadnezzar is wrong.

What does Nebuchadnezzar have to do with fir trees and Cedars?

Don't worry though.............I can probably shoot shoot holes in everything that you believe with factual truth.

You have spent your time listening to clueless skeptics. I have spent my time searching for truth. The truth is going to shoot down your clueless nonesense everytime. So when the light comes on, the cockroach runs.


Deal with it. Deal with the facts.



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