Islamofascists shut down 944 Thai Schools !!

Originally posted by laiguana
Hello NumberCruncher, I appreciate the article you posted here about the reality of Islamofascism that people still continue to ignore or deliberatley excuse. What also strikes me is how people attempt to argue by attacking the poster's credibility rather than the source. This to me immediatley shows that they are not willing to debate the real subject at hand, thus making NumberCruncher's point even stronger.

Hey Laiguana, Thanks for the feedback !

Yes its easy to attack the Messenger isnt it! But harder to prove or unprove the story, fact is Hundreds of Schools in Southern Thailand have been shut as the Direct result of Violent attacks by Islamofascists, regardless of there motives, people whom Murder innocent people and are Muslims are Islamofascists or just plain old Terrorists!

If this Religion of Peace is infact oh so peaceful, why is it virtually every country on our sacred planet that has Muslim populations suffer deadly attacks ?? What am i missing here? Let me Guess, its the CIA trying to make the violent Jihaists and Islamofascists look bad ?

Amazing isnt it, in this thread only three of us that can see it, that Islamofascists have shut hundreds of schools in Thailand, but a dozen apologists here denying it, altering it, shuffling ideas on the reasons, and simply avoiding condemning it !! ??

May Peace Be With You.

I have to say that this is one of the more offensive posts I've seen since I joined ATS.

Originally posted by NumberCruncher
like most folks here who follow Islam do you just blindly follow the opinions and actions of your Brothers in Religion for no other reason other than Bigotry?

Originally posted by NumberCruncher
Amazing isnt it, in this thread only three of us that can see it, that Islamofascists have shut hundreds of schools in Thailand, but a dozen apologists here denying it, altering it, shuffling ideas on the reasons, and simply avoiding condemning it !! ??

That's because we prefer to have a reasonable number of facts before we make up our minds, rather than filling in the gaps with prejudice.

The fact is that the overwhelming number of Muslims are peaceful people, and that the West consistently perverts democracy in their countries in order to gain control if their natural resources. This is the pattern from Iraq to East Timor. But this is history you'd prefer to deny.

Here's one example. It is a simple fact that Iran was a democracy, and becoming more secular, before the CIA put the Shah into power in the fifties. Two decades of brutal repression (with the SAVAK, the secret police, trained by the US) drove the country into the mosques, where the radical Imams were able to harness the people's need to live in a country free of death squads and disappearances. Result: theocracy, and a country that knows what the US is really all about. Not for nothing did the locals call the US Embassy "the nest of spies".

Without the CIA's intervention in the fifties, Khomeini would never have achieved power. But, hey, they got cheap oil out of the country for twenty or so years.

Now the propaganda machine is working everybody up to hate Islamofascists, and even in cases like this, where there's a startling lack of evidence (I've yet to see any of my points dealt with, btw), people start to see them everywhere. Despite the fact that two people living rather closer than you have said it's not to do with Islam, despite my pointing out the holes in the argument of each of the pieces quoted, you persist in this bigoted response. Perhaps you're part of the 23 percent that

falls into the follower category" said Dean. "These people are impervious" to fact, rationality and reality

Originally posted by Beachcoma
Let me ask you something. If a foreign nation invaded your state and annexed your territory, then proceed to marginalize your people, would you want your state to continue being part of the federation? Would you not want independence? Would you not want to be the master of your own destiny?

Yeah 170 years ago and now they decide they want out, countrys all over the world have been invaded, changed, anexed etc, if everyone wanted "paypack" the entire world would be at War (like it nearly is now i guess).

Hell Buddism was the Religion before 11th ?? centuary maybe payback could be dated back that far because Islam was being spread with the sword? These Ethnis malays ancestors where forced to become Muslim or face Death, see what im Getting at the entire planet can go play point the finger and have an excuse for war or seperation from its current status quo.

Marginalized ? These people wont even speak to the Government just run around killing non Muslims.

Where is the freedom for the marginalized? Where is the democracy?

How is it bigotry to want a better life? I do know it is bigotry to assume a person is a terrorist just because of their religion, though...

They are not speaking, just killing and shutting down schools and your agreeing with them for only one reason and thats because you share the same religion = Bigotry

Edit: Another thing, it's not a coincidence. And you know why? Because nobody in the media is making as big a fuss about the Christian separatists in Papua New Guinea, nor the Tamil separatist in Sri Lanka, nor the rebels in South America as they do insurgents in Southern Thailand or the rebels in Southern Mindanao.

Hell of a coincidence? No, just selective criticism and news coverage.

This story isnt all over the news for a start (here anyways), the other ones you speak of have just as much media attention, perhaps if they concern you so much you should make a thread about them??

[edit on 29-11-2006 by Beachcoma]

Fact is virtually every country that's been invaded in the past forty or so years has been invaded by Americans. Don't see you complaining about that.

wrong .... again .....

HERE IS LIST OF WARS IN LAST 40 YEARS

Korean War - Obsolutely nessesary, we won, hence there Being a South Korea instead of Just one rouge Nuclear Armed Korea.

Vietnam - We won, it stopped the spread of Communism throughout Asia.

Afgahnistan - Brillant, we should have more people here hunting Islamofascists on there turf instead of waiting for them to make a housecall.

Iraq - Saddam had to go, Occupation is just dumb, Iraqis will never appreciate what us has "tried" to do. All that money could of been better spent elsewhere, cant wait till Oil is a relic of the Past. So yes im complaining about this one.

Originally posted by NumberCruncher

Originally posted by Beachcoma
Let me ask you something. If a foreign nation invaded your state and annexed your territory, then proceed to marginalize your people, would you want your state to continue being part of the federation? Would you not want independence? Would you not want to be the master of your own destiny?

Yeah 170 years ago and now they decide they want out, countrys all over the world have been invaded, changed, anexed etc, if everyone wanted "paypack" the entire world would be at War (like it nearly is now i guess).

The insurgency has been on and off since the 1930s. Do some research first before spouting islamophobic rhetoric.

Wikipedia

[...]

There has been a separatist movement in Pattani since at least the 1930s, but under successive Thai military regimes it was firmly suppressed. During World War II, when Thailand under the nationalist regime of Field Marshal Phibunsongkhram was an ally of Japan, Tengku Mahmud Mahyuddin, a prominent Pattani leader who was the son of the last Raja of Pattani, allied himself with the British in the hopes that should the allies win, Pattani would be granted independence after the war. After the war, there was an attempt to establish a "Greater Malay Pattani State" (Negara Melayu Patani Raya), but the British gave this movement no support and hopes of an independent Pattani were shattered.

[...]

Hell Buddism was the Religion before 11th ?? centuary maybe payback could be dated back that far because Islam was being spread with the sword? These Ethnis malays ancestors where forced to become Muslim or face Death, see what im Getting at the entire planet can go play point the finger and have an excuse for war or seperation from its current status quo.

Responding to the underlined bit, that's conjecture, congruent with your phobic stance. The real story is Islam spread to the Peninsular via trade.

Wikipedia

There were several theories to the Islamization process in Southeast Asia. The first theory is trade. The expansion of trade among West Asia, India and Southeast Asia helped the spread of the religion as Muslim traders brought Islam to the region. The second theory is the role of missionaries or Sufis. The Sufis missionaries played a significant role in spreading the faith by syncretising Islamic ideas with exisitng local beliefs and religious notions. Finally, the ruling classes embraced Islam and that further aided the permeation of the religion throughout the region. The ruler of the region’s most important port - Malacca embraced Islam in the 15th century, heralding a period of acclerated conversion of Islam throughout the region as the religion provided a unifying force among the ruling and trading classes.

This process of conversion was a peaceful and was contrary of popular notion of the religion “ spread being spread by the sword”.

Bold emphasis mine.

Marginalized ? These people wont even speak to the Government just run around killing non Muslims.

Where is the freedom for the marginalized? Where is the democracy?

How is it bigotry to want a better life? I do know it is bigotry to assume a person is a terrorist just because of their religion, though...

They are not speaking, just killing and shutting down schools and your agreeing with them for only one reason and thats because you share the same religion = Bigotry

It's kinda hard to speak when the other side is not listening. I'm not gonna respond to the rest of this diatribe since you've already labelled me a bigot. It'd be a waste of effort.

NumberCruncher, thanks for proving my point about being impervious to rationality very eloquently indeed....

Originally posted by NumberCruncher

Originally posted by Beachcoma
Let me ask you something. If a foreign nation invaded your state and annexed your territory, then proceed to marginalize your people, would you want your state to continue being part of the federation? Would you not want independence? Would you not want to be the master of your own destiny?

Yeah 170 years ago and now they decide they want out, countrys all over the world have been invaded, changed, anexed etc, if everyone wanted "paypack" the entire world would be at War (like it nearly is now i guess).

Wanting to be free of a colonising power is different from wanting payback. Proof indeed that you're not prepared to argue on the issues: you're prepared to distort facts and arguments to support your bigoted ends. You either wilfully or inadvertently distorted the point that Beachcoma was making. Either way, you're not arguing the point, you're merely diverting attention from it to try to make your own tired and bigoted points about (ho hum) Islamofascists.

Edit: Another thing, it's not a coincidence. And you know why? Because nobody in the media is making as big a fuss about the Christian separatists in Papua New Guinea, nor the Tamil separatist in Sri Lanka, nor the rebels in South America as they do insurgents in Southern Thailand or the rebels in Southern Mindanao.

YOUR media perhaps. That just tells me about the media that you choose. Personally I've come across a great deal about the Tamil Tigers and their violent antics, for example. And which rebels in South America? The Sendero Luminoso? FARC?

It certainly disposes of DarkKnight's assertion that

Pick a country where there are seperatists using force...and you'll find an islamic armed force at its center.

And the Tamils aren't quite as homogeneous as you seem to think. Some of them might be (gasp) Muslims! Quick! Islamofascists off the port bow! Source

Originally posted by WeirdOne
All in all, it appears to be a mess. Still, complex situations like this cannot be boiled down so much. It's a gross oversimplification to say that 'Islamofascists' closed these schools.

Every word you posted is in accordance with facts as they are observed here on the spot. Actually the situation isn't that complex, it's provoked by arrogance and glorification of 'thai-ness'.

First let me say, Thai was never an ethnic label, it's a cultural 'tag'. Anybody - in theory - can become Thai, be swearing loyalty to the king and accepting and practicing Thai culture - and it doesn't include being Buddhist or speaking the language. By practicing the culture you of course became familar with the language.

The schools of the South has always taught the national language, Thai, but when deprived the right to teach their local tongues, Yawi, Malay, etc. the trouble started. And no matter which way spun, it has nothing to do with religion. It all started by the former administrations overwhelming election victory in 2000. That they took it as a mandate to do what they want, which was centralized corporative style, made it all go so wrong.

That it coincides with the announcing of the War of Terror, and the despot himself is a close friend of Georgy boy, makes it worthy some considerations of conspiracy.

As you'll note I'm not mentioning this guy's name as he's a big shot in the telecom bizz, one of the biggest in the world and also a close friend of Bill Gates, besides his critics often happens to suffer sudden deaths.

He's the one to blame for all the mess. Before he came into power, there would be one or two incidents a year in the South, now there several every week.

Maybe he was told to make it so by American friends. Rummy, Condo and Wolfowitch has been frequent visitors to the country during the reign of the despot.

But Beachcoma is right about the ethno-cultural thing.

For Number, I just whised you had done some travel, also to Muslim countries before Dubaya set it all ablaze. Then you would have found, they were not just peaceful but are very hospitable as well.

Originally posted by Beachcoma

It's kinda hard to speak when the other side is not listening. I'm not gonna respond to the rest of this diatribe since you've already labelled me a bigot. It'd be a waste of effort.

The moment you let me know you support these Islamofascists seperatist whom kill Teachers, children and a host of other Innocents in there seperatist movements earnt you the Bigot label althou you probably deserve a much worse label, dont worry ive been guilty of Bigotry myself on many occassions.

After all birds of a feather flock together, and we cant reasonbly expect Humanity to ever find peace can we ? Has there been even 1 year of peace in the world in the last 1500 years ?

I wonder who would benefit most if these Islamofascists got seperatism ? i Bet Malaysia? that would be the obvious choice for these people to want to join Malaysia! Perhaps Malaysia is fueling this ? conspiracy theory !

Originally posted by rich23

Edit: Another thing, it's not a coincidence. And you know why? Because nobody in the media is making as big a fuss about the Christian separatists in Papua New Guinea, nor the Tamil separatist in Sri Lanka, nor the rebels in South America as they do insurgents in Southern Thailand or the rebels in Southern Mindanao.

YOUR media perhaps. That just tells me about the media that you choose. Personally I've come across a great deal about the Tamil Tigers and their violent antics, for example. And which rebels in South America? The Sendero Luminoso? FARC?

Dude, I made that point. But it's true that the media I am exposed to tends to focus more on Thai or Philippine separatists more that the others. I suppose it's because of one of the six points that make news: proximity. In this case physical proximity. Those countries are Malaysia's neighbours.

But even when I read news from international sources there's more focus on any rebel that happen to be Muslims rather than those who aren't. I concede that maybe it's just that I tend to notice those more that the rest... psychological proximity at work there. Nobody can be free of bias.

islamistic extremist don't want people to learn about the truth, the islam is a false and unjust believe system just like christian believe system is unjust and false.
We are a people of many trough out space we are with many and a god which would only have created us and not other species on the trillions of planets out there would be false.
The only way to stop religions like islam and chrisian is a first contact with multiple lifeforms from different planets and starsystems. to show we are not the only one created like people of islam and christian systems want us to believe.
and if they say there is only one god as they say the bible contradicts them. in the bible there is a phrase saying YOU shall not place any god above me. reading this god says there are more godlike beings and we only have to obey them reading this we know there must be a race of godlike beings.
these godlike beings life in outer space and travel in crafts like the one landing in the dessert in multiple stories through out the bible.

Originally posted by NumberCruncher
The moment you let me know you support these Islamofascists seperatist whom kill Teachers, children and a host of other Innocents in there seperatist movements earnt you the Bigot label althou you probably deserve a much worse label, dont worry ive been guilty of Bigotry myself on many occassions.

After all birds of a feather flock together, and we cant reasonbly expect Humanity to ever find peace can we ? Has there been even 1 year of peace in the world in the last 1500 years ?

I wonder who would benefit most if these Islamofascists got seperatism ? i Bet Malaysia? that would be the obvious choice for these people to want to join Malaysia! Perhaps Malaysia is fueling this ? conspiracy theory !

Sympathizing for their suffering is different than supporting them. I can understand their frustration, but I don't condone the killing of non-combatants.

They wanna blow up police officers who stuff hundreds of them in the back of a truck resulting in death by suffocation or broken necks, I can understand that. They murder teachers in response because of "guilt-by-association" since those teachers are government servants, that I cannot accept. That's bigoted to me.

As for your conspiracy theory... I myself sometimes wonder about that. The northern Malaysian states of Kedah, Perlis, Terengganu and Kelantan were annexed by Thailand before. Somehow they got free. I do know even today there's a very close bond between the people of the Northern States of Malaya and those of the Southern Thai provinces.

It's plausible. Our government doesn't tell us anything.

Originally posted by khunmoon

For Number, I just whised you had done some travel, also to Muslim countries before Dubaya set it all ablaze. Then you would have found, they were not just peaceful but are very hospitable as well.

Easy to Blame Dubya isnt it, oh no the Religion Of peace only has little angels in its ranks, its the CIA agents i tell you, i tell you!!

Ive made over 100 overseas trips, stepped foot on every continent except for antarctica, Ive been to Indonesia, the most populous Muslim nation on the planet.

Since 2001 the World has changed for the worse, it is not going to get better in our lifetimes.

More Muslims hate (and Misunderstand) the west than at any other point in History, More Westerners hate (and Misunderstand) Islam than at any other point in history.

Personally i hate Muslims who blindly follow and agree with the actions of people of there faith for no other reason than Bigotry.

I am not perfect, i am pro west, pro democracy, and more right than centre, there are hundreds of Millions of people like me in the world who can see what i see, and i imagine there are millions whom see what you see.

Problem is Humans as a whole will always remain blind, blinded by fear, hate, vengance, bigotry, prejudice, greed and mis-information and primal instinct.

We can never acheive peace on Earth, its a statistical impossibility.


Doesnt change the Fact, Islamofascists have caused the closure of Hundreds of Schools in Southern Thailand because of Violence and hate.

Originally posted by NumberCruncher

More Muslims hate (and Misunderstand) the west than at any other point in History, More Westerners hate (and Misunderstand) Islam than at any other point in history.

That's the most brilliant statement you've made in the thread. It's good that you realize this. Now what are we to do about it? Do we continue to spread the fear, hate and misunderstanding or do we engage in dialogue to sort out the differences?

Originally posted by NumberCruncher

Fact is virtually every country that's been invaded in the past forty or so years has been invaded by Americans. Don't see you complaining about that.

wrong .... again .....

HERE IS LIST OF WARS IN LAST 40 YEARS

What? How about you get something right for a change? The title of this extremely long list is "Wars and Genocides of the 20th century". Let's look at the list from 1966 to the present:

1965-66: Indonesian civil war (200,000)
1966-69: Mao's "Cultural Revolution" (11 million)
1966-: Colombia's civil war (31,000)
1967-70: Nigeria-Biafra civil war (800,000)
1968-80: Rhodesia's civil war (?)
1969-: Philippines vs New People's Army (40,000)
1969-79: Idi Amin, Uganda (300,000)
1969-02: IRA - Norther Ireland's civil war (2,000)
1969-79: Francisco Macias Nguema, Equatorial Guinea (50,000)
1971: Pakistan-Bangladesh civil war (500,000)
1972-: Philippines vs Muslim separatists (120,000)
1972: Burundi's civil war (300,000)
1972-79: Rhodesia/Zimbabwe's civil war (30,000)
1974-91: Ethiopian civil war (1,000,000)
1975-78: Menghitsu, Ethiopia (1.5 million)
1975-79: Khmer Rouge, Cambodia (1.7 million)
1975-89: Boat people, Vietnam (250,000)
1975-90: civil war in Lebanon (40,000)
1975-87: Laos' civil war (184,000)
1975-2002: Angolan civil war (500,000)
1976-83: Argentina's military regime (20,000)
1976-93: Mozambique's civil war (900,000)
1976-98: Indonesia-East Timor civil war (600,000)
1976-2005: Indonesia-Aceh (GAM) civil war (12,000)
1979: Vietnam-China war (30,000)
1979-88: the Soviet Union invades Afghanistan (1.3 million)
1980-88: Iraq-Iran war (1 million)
1980-92: Sendero Luminoso - Peru's civil war (69,000)
1980-92: El Salvador's civil war (75,000)
1980-99: Kurds vs Turkey (35,000)
1981-90: Nicaragua vs Contras (60,000)
1982-90: Hissene Habre, Chad (40,000)
1983-2002: Sri Lanka's civil war (64,000)
1983-2002: Sudanese civil war (2 million)
1986-: Indian Kashmir's civil war (60,000)
1987-: Palestinian Intifada (4,500)
1988-2001: Afghanistan civil war (400,000)
1988-2004: Somalia's civil war (550,000)
1989-: Liberian civil war (220,000)
1989-: Uganda vs Lord's Resistance Army (30,000)
1991: Gulf War - large coalition against Iraq to liberate Kuwait (85,000)
1991-97: Congo's civil war (800,000)
1991-2000: Sierra Leone's civil war (200,000)
1991-: Russia-Chechnya civil war (200,000)
1991-94: Armenia-Azerbaijan war (35,000)
1992-96: Tajikstan's civil war war (50,000)
1992-96: Yugoslavia's civil war (260,000)
1992-99: Algerian civil war (150,000)
1993-97: Congo Brazzaville's civil war (100,000)
1993-2005: Burundi's civil war (200,000)
1994: Rwanda's civil war (900,000)
1995-: Pakistani Sunnis vs Shiites (1,300)
1995-: Maoist rebellion in Nepal (12,000)
1998-: Congo/Zaire's war - Rwanda and Uganda vs Zimbabwe, Angola and Namibia (3.8 million)
1998-2000: Ethiopia-Eritrea war (75,000)
1999: Kosovo's liberation war - NATO vs Serbia (2,000)
2001: Afghanistan's liberation war - USA & UK vs Taliban (25,000)
2002-: Cote d'Ivoire's civil war (1,000)
2003: Iraq's liberation war - USA, UK and Australia vs Saddam Hussein (14,000)
2003-: Sudan vs JEM/Darfur (180,000)
2003-: Iraq's civil war (50,000)
2004-: Sudan vs SPLM & Eritrea (?)

Now let's REMOVE internal conflicts (remember, I used the word "invaded" - you might like to gloss over this, but I pick my words carefully, it's what we who do it call "thinking"). We're left with these:

1979-88: the Soviet Union invades Afghanistan (1.3 million)
1980-88: Iraq-Iran war (1 million)
1991: Gulf War - large coalition against Iraq to liberate Kuwait (85,000)
1999: Kosovo's liberation war - NATO vs Serbia (2,000)
2001: Afghanistan's liberation war - USA & UK vs Taliban (25,000)
2003: Iraq's liberation war - USA, UK and Australia vs Saddam Hussein (14,000)

Now this is a pretty biased list, I have to say. It omits, for example, the fact that the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan was fomented by Zbigniew Brezinski and Ronnie Reagan. They were credited for bringing down the Soviet Union with this war. But it cost 1.3 million lives. You can't have it both ways.

In the Iraq-Iran war, the US sold arms to both sides, and Kissinger was quoted as saying that the more Arabs killed each other, the better.

Mysteriously, there are some gaps. Where is the invasion of Panama? What about little Grenada? Are these countries too small to be worth bothering with?

Characterising anything the US does as "liberation" is of course highly partial. Ask the average Iraqi if he feels especially liberated right about now and I don't think you'll find many agree. Likewise the war for "liberation" in Afghanistan.

So what we're left with is:

Vietnam: (still taking place within the 40-year time period). Did the Vietnamese invade the US? I don't think so. And you're certainly living in denial if you think the US won. They kicked you out. Or did you have to airlift people from the roof of the embassy through choice?

Soviets into Afghanistan: As already stated, fomented by the US.

Iran-Iraq: US sold arms to both sides (illegally and using drug money to finance it, too. Nice.)

Panama, Grenada: Mysteriously omitted from the original list. But a quick check. Did the US invade those countries, or did they invade the US?

Kosovo: NATO bombed a country that was tearing itself apart in a civil war. Oh, the Muslims were the "good guys" or victims, in that one.

Iraq, Afghanistan: the US invaded.

So, now we've winnowed out the chaff, we come up with a list of (count 'em) eight conflicts, of which the US directly invaded a country five times, bombed as part of NATO once, directly fomented one war, and sold arms to both sides in the last.

I think I've proved my point... but let's go on. Let's also make a list from the list above, which are just those conflicts, off the top of my head, that I know the US aided and abetted:

1965-66: Indonesian civil war (200,000)
1969-: Philippines vs New People's Army (40,000)
1975-79: Khmer Rouge, Cambodia (1.7 million)
1976-83: Argentina's military regime (20,000)
1976-98: Indonesia-East Timor civil war (600,000)
1976-2005: Indonesia-Aceh (GAM) civil war (12,000)
1979-88: the Soviet Union invades Afghanistan (1.3 million)
1980-92: El Salvador's civil war (75,000)
1981-90: Nicaragua vs Contras (60,000)

So... the US... not exactly a force for peace in the world. Rather more dangerous than Islamofascists.

Korean War - Obsolutely nessesary, we won, hence there Being a South Korea instead of Just one rouge Nuclear Armed Korea.

Did you know that protests against continued American occupation occur regularly in Seoul? No doubt that your entirely binary mind will interpret that as being in favour of Kim Jong Il, but never mind.

Vietnam - We won, it stopped the spread of Communism throughout Asia.

I love that "we won" thing. It displays an extraordinary ability to deny reality, which, as we know, has a liberal bias.

Afgahnistan - Brillant, we should have more people here hunting Islamofascists on there turf instead of waiting for them to make a housecall.

Mmm. Let's give a big cheer for the fact that opium production is now back to pre-Taliban levels.

Iraq - Saddam had to go, Occupation is just dumb, Iraqis will never appreciate what us has "tried" to do. All that money could of been better spent elsewhere, cant wait till Oil is a relic of the Past. So yes im complaining about this one.

Those ungrateful Iraqis! We bomb them, kill thousands of their citizens, plunge the country into civil war, rip off their oil, permenently pollute their land with depleted uranium that causes hideous birth defects... and they just want us to LEAVE!

Some people have no sense of gratitude.

[edit on 29-11-2006 by rich23]

Originally posted by Beachcoma
Do we continue to spread the fear, hate and misunderstanding or do we engage in dialogue to sort out the differences?

I think all sides of the worlds problems needs to continue to Spread the Truth, but i sure hope and would love to see the differences sorted out through dialouge and understanding.

Can it be acheived ? im not sure ....... But i know itll be a hell of a rocky road, just need to look at the ME as an example, nearly everytime a peace deal is brokered some rouge operator sets it all off again, it just seems impossible sometimes.

I dont realisticly envision a world of peace in my lifetime, guess i can hope for my children or grand children ?

It's highly unlikely to have -peace-...which is why I refuse any form of compromise with terrorists. These people cannot be trusted, ever, they will take any opportunity and turn it around for their own advantage. They do not care for their life or anyone elses.
Islamofacsim revolves around the ideology of Islamic world domination. And yes, thousands (possibily more) people indulge in this propaganda and extremism.

All I have to do is look at the list of terrorist acts committed world wide. The grand majority of these have been connected to the Islamofascists. And no, it's not president Bush's fault, or America's fault or 'The Western Nations' fault. These acts of terrorism are targeted at civilian populations to mark their jihad. Just as we saw here in Thailand.

Unless and until I see a movement within the Islamic community to counter-act these atrocities I refuse to believe that it is a religion of 'peace'.

My agenda is for my country's interests. That's right, I care more about my country's interests than any other country's or religion's interests, it's a natural function in all life. And I certainly won't be sparing my sympathy to people that don't care to join the civilized world where problems are dealt with through diplomacy.

I am not sure if I can find the right words to describe my feelings of what this thread is about, so I will use some quotes of others that I think do describe it better then I can.

"The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis." (Dante Alighieri, 1265-1321)

"He who desires but acts not, breeds pestilence." (William Blake)

inaction

You can put what ever spin you wish on the victims of the Tia violence, but I do think the above quotes do kind of sum things up.

Originally posted by NumberChruncer
I am not perfect, i am pro west, pro democracy, and more right than centre, there are hundreds of Millions of people like me in the world who can see what i see, and i imagine there are millions whom see what you see.

Very good, I se you do have the ability of self-criticism. I just don't see truth as The Truth. Nothing is completely black or white. If you know Tao, and the meaning of its symbol, you'll know why.

The thing is, if someone repeat a lie over and over, you're bound to believe it is true.

"If the bible is right, all the truth in the world add up to one big lie" is one of my favorite quotations. Now, I don't know if the bible really says so, but as I have it from Bob Dylan, I'm... hmm... bound to believe it's true.

But I think you know more about the bible than I do, so...
...but most of all I do think, there's nowhere you can read or be tought The Truth.

More from the black-and-white world...

Originally posted by laiguana
It's highly unlikely to have -peace-...which is why I refuse any form of compromise with terrorists. These people cannot be trusted, ever,

What about the IRA? They were terrorists. And supported by the US, in fact. But a compromise was reached between them and the equally terrorist Ulster "loyalists".

What about the Israelis? They used terror tactics in Palestine in the forties?

What about the US, which harbours terrorists? Have a look at this article:

For instance, the Bush administration took no action in early April 2006, when a Spanish-language Miami television station interviewed Cuban terrorist Orlando Bosch, who offered a detailed justification for the 1976 mid-air bombing of a Cubana Airlines flight that killed 73 people, including the young members of the Cuban national fencing team.

Bosch refused to admit guilt, but his chilling defense of the bombing – and the strong evidence that has swirled around his role – left little doubt of his complicity, even as he lives in Miami as a free man, protected both in the past and present by the Bush family.

The Bush administration also has acted at a glacial pace in dealing with another Cuban exile implicated in the bombing, Luis Posada Carriles, whose illegal presence in Miami was an open secret for weeks in early 2005 before U.S. authorities took him into custody, only after he had held a press conference.

But even then, the administration has balked at sending Posada back to Venezuela where the government of Hugo Chavez – unlike some of its predecessors – was eager to prosecute Posada for the Cubana Airlines murders.

Summing up George W. Bush’s dilemma in 2005, the New York Times wrote, “A grant of asylum could invite charges that the Bush administration is compromising its principle that no nation should harbor suspected terrorists. But to turn Mr. Posada away could provoke political wrath in the conservative Cuban-American communities of South Florida, deep sources of support and campaign money for President Bush and his brother, Jeb.” [NYT, May 9, 2005]

All I have to do is look at the list of terrorist acts committed world wide. The grand majority of these have been connected to the Islamofascists.

Hm. I suspect if you provide me with a list I could kick big holes in it, just as I did with NumberCruncher's rather incomplete list of "wars", when I used the term "invasions".

And no, it's not president Bush's fault, or America's fault or 'The Western Nations' fault. These acts of terrorism are targeted at civilian populations to mark their jihad. Just as we saw here in Thailand.

Where is your evidence that this is the case in Thailand? Many posters here have blown this one out of the water, by carefully noting flaws in the stories posted, inaccurate quoting, or personal testimony. Yet you persist in believing what you choose to believe, and cannot refute the arguments except by windy bluster.

My agenda is for my country's interests. That's right, I care more about my country's interests than any other country's or religion's interests, it's a natural function in all life.

Oh, you really won't like this... but it's a historical fact that Hitler put his country's interests above the interests of everybody else, too. He just wanted lebensraum for Germany, because the Germans were basically better than everyone else. And he didn't much care for compromise, either.

And I certainly won't be sparing my sympathy to people that don't care to join the civilized world where problems are dealt with through diplomacy.

Just like Iraq? Where efforts at diplomacy were consistently rebuffed? Please.