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National Geographic Channel - Ancient Astronauts (11/27)

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posted on Nov, 30 2006 @ 08:04 AM
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actually its far easier to build with metals and concrete

thats why we do it
not because we don't know how to use stone
why wouldn't these super duper advanced Aliens know that ?




posted on Nov, 30 2006 @ 08:15 AM
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also it may be astounding to you that the ancients knew about precession but they had more time to work it out because their equivalent of your sci fi channel was the sky above their heads
if you spent as much time studying astronomy as you do fantasizing wothout any evidence you'd realise how stupid that statement you made actually sounds


...and I thought you were just deludedly ignorant, but then, best let the ludicrousness in you be displayed for all to see with each word you write. Do engage the mind before you write, ..oops..i'm too kind...you seem to lack one, gathered by reading your posts.



posted on Nov, 30 2006 @ 08:24 AM
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Originally posted by Marduk
actually its far easier to build with metals and concrete

thats why we do it
not because we don't know how to use stone
why wouldn't these super duper advanced Aliens know that ?


I love a good discussion.


Yes you are write it is easier to build with metal and concrete, but all of these materials have to be mined. This increases the amount of work and work force needed to build what ever.
The metal would have to be mined as ore then smelted then shaped into usable pieces then the building can start.
The raw materials for concrete would have to be mined then mixed with water then put into forms to make the shaped peices that you would build with.

Stone on the other hand could be gathered or quarried. Quarring is easier than mining. The stone could be cut into shapes without the use of forms or molds. And certain stone will outlast both the metal and concrete.



posted on Nov, 30 2006 @ 08:36 AM
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youre claiming its easier to quarry rocks weighing upwards of 4 tons and moving them several miles than it is to make concrete from the same material.
I see you've never worked in the building trade then

and mining surely should be easy for Aliens who have access to advanced technology
i'll say this once again in case you didn't get the point
its far easier even with the aquisition of materials to build with concrete and metal than it is to build with stone
this is why we do it
are you saying that these super advanced Aliens were less advanced than us now ?

not so clever after all then are they
and this quarrying that you are claiming the aliens did
why were they using copper tools ?
why not laser it out or something
must have been pretty backwards if they weren't using at least an alloy like bronze
after all
the Sumerians were using bronze a thousand years earlier
and they were people right ?
not Aliens


[edit on 30-11-2006 by Marduk]

[edit on 30-11-2006 by Marduk]



posted on Nov, 30 2006 @ 05:47 PM
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youre claiming its easier to quarry rocks weighing upwards of 4 tons and moving them several miles than it is to make concrete from the same material.
I see you've never worked in the building trade then


Just look at what you wrote. Ludicrous! Just for the sake of educating your puny little intellect, since you doubt the other author's claim that an advance intelligent species did it, therefore are you claiming primitive did it??!!

Even your post doubts such feat, but the fact is, the monuments are real and there. How did it got there? Oh wait..perhaps you are a Harry Porter fan, wave a wand and hey presto! it appears?....

...sheesh, please do some research before you post and not be in a hurry to show you intellectual shortcommings. I hate to be harsh, but then, these are serious issues and not some schoolyard challenge.



[edit on 30-11-2006 by SeekerofTruth102]



posted on Nov, 30 2006 @ 11:55 PM
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Just look at what you wrote. Ludicrous! Just for the sake of educating your puny little intellect, since you doubt the other author's claim that an advance intelligent species did it, therefore are you claiming primitive did it??!!

oh i see
because you're losing this discussion you're now resorting to personal attacks
how very advanced of you that is
you are claiming that the ancients were primitive
thats wrong because they weren't
clearly as they built these structures themselves they are not as primitive as you are
listen to yourself you are claiming that advancedf aliens who could build intergalactic spaceships were not advanced enough to use alloys or concretes
that they had primitive ancient peoples build structures for them because they didn't know any other way to do it
they had them build structures that serve no function whatsoever as living quarters as they have so few rooms in them and they didn't get these primitive ancient peoples to draw a single image of them anywhere on the structure
they built a structure that would last a long time and then left shortly afterwards because they had some pressing doctors appointment somewhere and couldn't stay for the post construction party
and when they left the primitive peoples didn't mention that they had ever been here
must have been some agenda these aliens had eh
the fact that there were pyramids in egypt before giza and there were pyramid in egypt after giza shows that you haven't a clue what you're talking about
the fact that you don't know anything about real histoyr shows if anything that its too complicated for you to understand even though it is very very simple
so where does that leave your intellectual level seeker of non truth
somewhere along the lines of a primitive eh



posted on Dec, 1 2006 @ 02:56 AM
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Kettle calling the pot black? Rules don't apply to you, only for others such as me?

lol!..go on. Keep on the rant. Making you more foolish by the minute. When you calm down enough, do take a good look at what you wrote. I am not your tuition teacher. Do some homework on your own, boy, then you will know how foolish you had been.



posted on Dec, 1 2006 @ 03:16 AM
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The simple fact is if there is no evidence either way there's as much chance of both arguments being wrong as there is of any one of them being right.
I believe in alien life but i don't think came here saw us and thought we were so special that they used their space ships to help us to build huge stone temples to help us to prey to non existent gods. I cant help thinking if there was some sort of intelligent design going on here why didn't they build anything more useful to the population of the planet?
As for the giant blocks of stone don't prove anything extraterrestrial. Look at the facts they wernt part of some super elaborate high tech machine. They were at the end of the day just bigger versions of what we already did when we built our own buildings. I haven't seen any evidence of anything impossible being done here. Just stuff that would be extremely difficult and time consuming. The are complex structures but they are all big... there's nothing complex and small that indicates alien life has helped us in any way.
I'm not trying to imply you are stupid in any way but unless you are the cleverest person in the world then you will have to admit there's a lot of people in the world who can work stuff out that you cant and that probably includes how to move 80 tons of perfectly cut solid stone without the use of vehicles .Just because you cant work out how something is done doesnt automatically mean that its an impossible thing to do. Your thinking is far from educated, logical or even rational. A real seeker of the truth would have an open mind until the truth has been discovered.
I believe in life in space because i don't believe in a unique event (like us) but the idea that we are so clever and special that beings from other world fly over to help us build useless/worthless works of art and then vanish again without leaving a trace.
But id also like to say that proving the absence of aliens helping us to do stuff throughout history doesnt automatically mean they don't exist or that we developed naturally on this planet.



posted on Dec, 1 2006 @ 03:38 AM
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How about everyone take a deep breath and relax? Does anyone on this thread deserve an iota of respect from anyone else? Doesn't seem so. This is an interesting subject and there are many great arguments on both sides, neither of which can be said to proove anything. I was hoping to read an educated discussion of both sides of this issue and instead I get to read two pages of school yard bullying. Thanks for wasting my time.



posted on Dec, 1 2006 @ 09:02 AM
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hahaha...no worries, yourrolemodel...the preamble was meant to sort out the snobbery attitude of others assuming they are dishing out scholarly gems. What a joke!

Personally i do agree with ultralo1's hypothesis on rocks being more abundant worldwide and readily avaliable.

Let's put aside the 'ancient astronaut' hypothesis aside for a moment:

1.) Imagine Mars was discovered rich in uranium, an element which can fuel our energy needs more than fossilized fuels.

2.) Imagine US is the sole super power capable of sending men to Mars, based on current technology, financially and economically, setting up the operations nationally first before privatizing to corporate world, as is the natural economic standard format as per our civilisation.

3.) Answer the following questions, but please base on science and economics, not magic wand fantasies.

a.) Would it be more economical if you were to build a uranium processing plant on Mars, ferrying the construction materials ( steel, cement, machineries, etc..) just to build one or a few, or would you rather just ferry the ore back to Earth for processing?

b.) Should the answer to a) be to ferry back the ore, would you at least create landing pads, landing zones, markers for spaceships to recognise landmarks, perform landing and taking off?

c.) Should b) be positive, what material would you use to create such landing pads, markers, etc?

d.) As for mining crew, would you prefer to send professional miners or convicts? Consider too, on the economic costs of miners/convicts, as well as the admin/socialogical aspects, eg..pay/unions/recreation/command & control.

e.) If there is an opportunity for genetic manipulation/Eugenics/cloning for Mars is out of Earth's genetic laws, would you prefer to create domesticated 'sub-humans' to do the tedious mining work as well as serving the admin crew, reprehensive as it may sound to politically correct humans?

f.) Should you bring along tools, would you prefer to use tools made of gold, so that it does not corrode over time, or steel which rust and becomes dust over time, or at least will lasts for some time before the elements turn it into dust?

Take note, I did not mention anything about 'aliens'. Even though the Bible did say man were created in the likeness of God, and when he ate the fruit of knowledge, the Almighty was so displeased that He kicked them out of Eden, saying man is almost like Us and should he eat from the tree of life, he would become immortal like Us.

A similar tale was recounted in the Sumerian text, and just for the info, the sumerians were considered the oldest civilisation on Earth as of today's knowledge, and do take note, the sumerians attributed the mega structures to construction by the gods, and not men.

Please, please, give answers from a to f and not just pick on one and extrapolate on it. Thanks. I am no scholar, just an ordinary layman.



posted on Dec, 1 2006 @ 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by SeekerofTruth102

a.) Would it be more economical if you were to build a uranium processing plant on Mars, ferrying the construction materials ( steel, cement, machineries, etc..) just to build one or a few, or would you rather just ferry the ore back to Earth for processing?

Neither, of course. It costs waaay too much the "ferry" uranium from another planet. We have plenty of it right here. Also, if one were to construct anything on Mars, one would certainly use materials already found there.

Do you know the atomic weight of uranium? You're asking whether we should move a spaceship full of material with a density higher than lead, or in the case of processed uranium, much much denser than lead, from another planet to ours. The cost would far outweigh any conceivable benefit.


Originally posted by SeekerofTruth102
b.) Should the answer to a) be to ferry back the ore, would you at least create landing pads, landing zones, markers for spaceships to recognise landmarks, perform landing and taking off?

Well, the answer wasn't a), but I must say that there would be absolutely no reason at all to create any "markers...(or)... landmarks."

Are you assuming that a pilot will be approaching the Martian base from space without any radio contact at all? Are you not aware that even the Shuttle is guided in to it's landing field by telemetry, and not based on some "marker" or "landmark?"


Originally posted by SeekerofTruth102
c.) Should b) be positive, what material would you use to create such landing pads, markers, etc?


Landing area construction would depend on the nature of the vehicle, of course. A VTOL SSO type ship would require the least amount of construction.

I'd make the pad out of concrete.


Originally posted by SeekerofTruth102
d.) As for mining crew, would you prefer to send professional miners or convicts? Consider too, on the economic costs of miners/convicts, as well as the admin/socialogical aspects, eg..pay/unions/recreation/command & control.

Again, you are not thinking. Who in their right mind would send a crew of men on a mission to Mars that would be left idle the entire flight time?

Only an idiot would waste mass in such a way. Of course the ship's crew would have to double as miners in this ill-advised and money losing venture of yours. That is, until they got the automated mining equipment set up.


Originally posted by SeekerofTruth102
e.) If there is an opportunity for genetic manipulation/Eugenics/cloning for Mars is out of Earth's genetic laws, would you prefer to create domesticated 'sub-humans' to do the tedious mining work as well as serving the admin crew, reprehensive as it may sound to politically correct humans?

Now you're starting to wander off into the land of make-believe. Why would any "cloning" at all be even a consideration?


Originally posted by SeekerofTruth102
f.) Should you bring along tools, would you prefer to use tools made of gold, so that it does not corrode over time, or steel which rust and becomes dust over time, or at least will lasts for some time before the elements turn it into dust?

Automated mining equipment would most likely be a titanium alloy, or at the very least stainless steel. The latter is unlikely though, because of it's weight. Titanium or Titanium alloy is stronger than steel, by weight, as is aluminum, come to think of it.

Only a complete moron would even consider using gold for anything involving mechanical/physical work.


Originally posted by SeekerofTruth102
A similar tale was recounted in the Sumerian text, and just for the info, the sumerians were considered the oldest civilisation on Earth as of today's knowledge, and do take note, the sumerians attributed the mega structures to construction by the gods, and not men.

No, they didn't. They built their own "mega structures," and bragged on them. If you're still referring to the pyramids, please let us know when you find a Sumerian commentary on Egyptian architectural practices.


Originally posted by SeekerofTruth102
I am no scholar, just an ordinary layman.

Here you are just being redundant and untruthful. Anyone reading your posts has already determined that you are no scholar (hence you are being redundant.) It is also painfully obvious from your posts that as a layman, you are anything but ordinary (thus you are being untruthful.)

Harte



posted on Dec, 1 2006 @ 03:47 PM
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youre claiming its easier to quarry rocks weighing upwards of 4 tons and moving them several miles than it is to make concrete from the same material.
I see you've never worked in the building trade then


Yes and yes I have.



and mining surely should be easy for Aliens who have access to advanced technology
i'll say this once again in case you didn't get the point
its far easier even with the aquisition of materials to build with concrete and metal than it is to build with stone
this is why we do it
are you saying that these super advanced Aliens were less advanced than us now


i'll say this once again in case you didn't get the point I am taking this statement as a "finger in my face". I got your point and disagree with it so what is your problem? I cant have a different opinion than you. What makes you an expert on the building trades and the efficenciey of such. My guess is that you have just an opinion with nothing to back you. Just as my statements were opinions with nothing to back them. I like CIVIL debate. There was no reason for that statement about getting your point.


not so clever after all then are they
and this quarrying that you are claiming the aliens did
why were they using copper tools ?
why not laser it out or something
must have been pretty backwards if they weren't using at least an alloy like bronze
after all
the Sumerians were using bronze a thousand years earlier
and they were people right ?
not Aliens


No I never CLAIMED that the aliens did quarry the rock I just claimed that it made since to me that they would. And to further wonder what you are reading, where did the copper tools comment come from? You leave me wandering if this was just one of your rants or what.


[edit on 1-12-2006 by ultralo1]



posted on Dec, 1 2006 @ 08:42 PM
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"Times Online is reporting that French and American researchers have discovered that the stones on the higher levels of the great pyramids of Egypt were built with concrete. From the article: 'Until recently it was hard for geologists to distinguish between natural limestone and the kind that would have been made by reconstituting liquefied lime.' They found 'traces of a rapid chemical reaction which did not allow natural crystallization. The reaction would be inexplicable if the stones were quarried, but perfectly comprehensible if one accepts that they were cast like concrete.'"



posted on Dec, 1 2006 @ 10:12 PM
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Thank you Harte for your response and your personal beliefs. However, do spare the vitrol and personal accusations, for it shows up your attitude, until we meet face to face. Its no wonder diplomacy often fails amongst mankind and have to resort war whenever one seeks only purely discussion, rational on-topic logic and not uncalled for remarks.

The reason i used Uranium instead of some exotic fuel replacement element is so that readers may relate to this material and its hydrometallurgical processing methods. So do indulge me a little and let me rephrase my questions, edited in BOLD, if readers have the time to answer, if not, its perfectly ok. No one will be force to do anything where i am concern nor do i deride others for the views.:-

Let's put aside the 'ancient astronaut' hypothesis aside for a moment:

1.) Imagine Mars was discovered rich in uranium, an element which can fuel our energy needs more than fossilized fuels AND Earth has depleted it's fossilized fuel and energy producing elements. Economic woes will escalate soon

2.) Imagine US is the sole super power capable of sending men to Mars, based on current within next 20 yrs technology ( cold fusion, anti-gravity, plasma, ion engines, etc), financially and economically, setting up the operations nationally first before privatizing to corporate world, as is the natural economic standard format as per our civilisation.

3.) Answer the following questions, but please base on science and economics, not magic wand fantasies.

a.) Would it be more economical if you were to build a uranium processing plant on Mars, ferrying the construction materials ( steel, cement, machineries, chemicals, etc..) just to build one or a few, or would you rather just ferry the ore back to Earth for processing?

b.) Should the answer to a) be to ferry back the ore, would you at least create landing pads, landing zones, markers for spaceships to recognise landmarks, perform landing and taking off?

c.) Should b) be positive, what material would you use to create such landing pads, markers, etc? ( take note, you are on Mars, and only martian material is avaliable)

d.) As for mining crew, would you prefer to send professional miners or convicts? Consider too, on the economic costs of miners/convicts, as well as the admin/socialogical aspects, eg..pay/unions/recreation/command & control.

e.) If there is an opportunity for genetic manipulation/Eugenics/cloning for Mars is out of Earth's genetic laws, would you prefer to create domesticated 'sub-humans' to do the tedious mining work as well as serving the admin crew, reprehensive as it may sound to politically correct humans?

f.) Should you bring along tools, would you prefer to use tools made of gold, so that it does not corrode over time, or steel which rust and becomes dust over time, or at least will lasts for some time before the elements turn it into dust?


AND Earth has depleted it's fossilized fuel and energy producing elements. Economic woes will escalate soon



posted on Dec, 1 2006 @ 11:30 PM
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ROFL and your telling US to keep things based in reality.lololol

how can you have the nerve to post "just look at what you wrote. Ludicrous! Just for the sake of educating your puny little intellect"

and

"...and I thought you were just deludedly ignorant, but then, best let the ludicrousness in you be displayed for all to see with each word you write. Do engage the mind before you write, ..oops..i'm too kind...you seem to lack one, gathered by reading your posts."

and then

"Its no wonder diplomacy often fails amongst mankind and have to resort war whenever one seeks only purely discussion, rational on-topic logic and not uncalled for remarks."

But lets put all that aside for a moment and deal with you imaginary dilemma

AND Earth has depleted it's fossilized fuel and energy producing elements?

Fossilized fuels are probably going to be replaced with ethanol which can be manufactured from simple Sugar cain. Plus while there is water in the sea, the sun in the sky and wind in the air we will never run out of "energy producing elements".

but lets say that happened anyway... and that somehow nuclear energy has become super clean and we didn't have to worry about the waste products.

Even if the Van halen Belt vanished over night and humans could actually leave the planet without dying then....no that wont work as we'd all be dead from the suns radiation then..

(by the way its kinda hard for stuff to rust (oxidise) without any oxygen or water).

Ok lets say that we had suddenly become immune to the deadly effects of radiation 0_o ....there's no way we would send humans as we're to fragile ,take up to much space and we need to eat during the loong journey to Mars. In other word we are no ware near efficient enough to get the job done. Think of all the air you would need for the journey alone. Have you heard of micrometerorites?

A fleet of robots would be sent to do the job. They would be manufactured (grown) on the way. Then using solar sails and a Group Artificial intelligence they would be deployed to the planet surface. The machines themselves would have morphing capability and would be able to perform many different tasks so if one gets damaged the job can still be completed.
the ore would be mined and then transported back to earth were we could oversee the extraction of the ore ourselves.

By the way the chances are we're gonna run out of drinking water way before we run out of these " energy producing elements" that you talk about.

I don't see how you can demand a realistic answer to an unrealistic question.

[edit on 1-12-2006 by VitalOverdose]

[edit on 2-12-2006 by VitalOverdose]



posted on Dec, 2 2006 @ 07:51 AM
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It seems i may have over-estimated the intelligence of SOME people, or same person with other nicknames. And it does seem strange when one ask questions, derision is the first thing to do to the questioner. Thank heavens there are more responsible and educated folks around then those who are uneducated and hide this lack through stepping down on others to stand up to look smart. It shows in their post with their pathetic attempts to dumb down others, lol!

But put that all aside.

Do some reading first before attempting to answer the questions. It would open even a closed foolishly egoistical ignorant mind. It's for your sake i said it with your best interest in heart.

As for the purpose of landmarks and markers: Its an assumption that electronic means of navigation is foolproof and without error. If such an assumption is held true, then i do believe pilots should be fired now. Automated systems will do the job. Folks at FAA will have massive heart attacks!

As in most mechanical operations of mankind, there must be back up systems to prevent or minimise failures. Besides electronic means of navigation, visual guidance is necessary as well. I had thought all would have been aware of this fact, but then..lol...i over-estimated some people.

As for the journey out of Earth's atmosphere to another celestial object, i wont even bother to shed a shred of intelligence on it. It had already been taught in high schools, discussed in Universities and refined in scientific circles with articles on it. Do some reading up please. As he didnt bother to answer the questions i posed at all and instead chosed derision and displayed mental disability, no thanks will will forthcoming for sure.


[edit on 2-12-2006 by SeekerofTruth102]



posted on Dec, 2 2006 @ 04:31 PM
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You might want to look at NASA's LARA and ANTS programs. Kind of impressive for a bunch of nazi's. lol

This movie has a running comentary but is 88 MB so you might want to right click and download it rather than trying to view it on the web
Ants_fullstory


[edit on 2-12-2006 by VitalOverdose]



posted on Dec, 2 2006 @ 08:29 PM
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A fleet of robots would be sent to do the job. They would be manufactured (grown) on the way. Then using solar sails and a Group Artificial intelligence they would be deployed to the planet surface. The machines themselves would have morphing capability and would be able to perform many different tasks so if one gets damaged the job can still be completed.


That is a great idea of how it could be done.

I wonder if these robots would build the structures that they might need out of steel, concrete, or stone?

This is an attempt at humor, please take it as so. It is not a snipe or a comment meant to cause irritation in others. I do think that the way you describe gathering the materials is a sound idea. No disrespect is intended.



posted on Dec, 3 2006 @ 11:54 PM
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None taken. Ive got no problem with debating a subject with open minded intelligent people. Its not disrespectful to disagree with someones opinions , we have to get things wrong to learn whats right and Ive never been afraid to learn something.
What i explained above isn't my idea... its NASA's. That's why i provided the links to the movies .Its not a subject I'm all that bothered about. I was more interested in discussing the ancient astronauts as its something Ive been looking into myself for a while. I'm not about to start defending a bunch of Nazi war criminals who still cant admit that we never went to the moon!
If i remember correctly we were discussing megalithic architecture.






[edit on 4-12-2006 by VitalOverdose]



posted on Dec, 4 2006 @ 05:29 AM
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so several times I've been hearing the "alien nuts" (pun intended) in this thread
claim that us genuinely knowledgable people should spend some time researching the truth that Aliens did everything and that every human but them is a primitive
so perhaps they could provide some credible links so I can research this theory for myself
anything ending in .edu or .gov would be acceptable



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