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Slavery and the Bible

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posted on Dec, 1 2006 @ 06:02 AM
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So your justifying enslavement as a form of employment? Do you think humanitarian groups existed in those days to keep check if all slaves were indeed being treated fairly or not? I think it's rather naive to say that slaves were kept around with their interests in mind. Hence the name SLAVE.
What about the men that couldn't afford payment but sold one of his daughters or young boys to slavehood as payment? That was -okay- according to one of the passages in the bible and it even have instructions on how to do it. I also think it's naive to say that these young slaves were not taken advantage of whether it be through harsh unneccesary punishments or for sexual interests.
Again, I only see people here making up excuses for slavery, but they fail to address the passages that have been cited here.




posted on Dec, 1 2006 @ 06:36 AM
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And I thought this may be an interesting read. Once again we are bashing the bible. I guess this has come from years and years of long hard research that absolutely proves that only in Israel was slavery ever a problem. I believe we are all still enslaved and are given a gift at the end of every month for our labours. However, all that has changed is that we can, for the most part, choose to whom we would like to extend out "enslaved" services.

I find it quite amusing that here are so many bible and religion bashers out there when some of those who bash the religions belong to the people who "allegedly" murdered Jesus, on the cross, hence the reason they deny he ever came to earth because then they would have to accept responsibility for killing the son of God. And again, the people who live in Israel are what? Not catholic - not for the most part anyways...

The world was full of slavery 2000 years ago but perhaps it isn't offered in records as it is in the bible so let's bash the bible. This is just a subject for the bored and un/ill-informed. Slavery was not isolated to one small piece of the globe and as far as I can see some of you have grasped the concept that perhaps slavery was condoned but there were boundaries so it was not slavery as one would have seen where they are enslaved without any rights like being let free etc. (I am not going to elaborate to extensively though I know this would leave open anything I have said here for ridicule but it would take too long to say something and then support at length for those that misinterpret to suite their needs.)

Ok, next week, we bash the Quoran and the week after that the Tanakh and hell, we will just keep it going. We can even cover the Satanic bible as it appears it makes more sense and contains less slavery and has nothing to do with the pope, contraception and rape – as far as Catholicism is concerned anyways.

Perhaps mommy and daddy made you go to church and read your bible and give thanks before meals and now you are rebelling. It’s ok, let it out! Talk about it – we all care and love you – you poor little injured birdy…



posted on Dec, 1 2006 @ 09:00 AM
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shearder,



Once again we are bashing the bible.


If pointing out the inconsistencies in the bible is bashing the bible then so be it. One of the intents of this thread was to make light of the hipocracies contained in the bible. ie...all men are equal in the eyes of the lord but the lord condones the beating, buying and selling of humans for slavery.



I believe we are all still enslaved and are given a gift at the end of every month for our labours.

Is getting beat by your boss in your job description?



I find it quite amusing that here are so many bible and religion bashers out there when some of those who bash the religions belong to the people who "allegedly" murdered Jesus, on the cross, hence the reason they deny he ever came to earth because then they would have to accept responsibility for killing the son of God. And again, the people who live in Israel are what? Not catholic - not for the most part anyways...


Your statement is very close to sounding anti-semitic.
As has been pointed out on this thread by numerous posters both the old testament and the new testament condone slavery. In case you dont know the old testament or the Torah is the jewish bible. Both the books condone the practice of slavery. Just to reiterate the purpose of the this thread was to point out the hipocracies contained in both books of the bible.

And in doing so it was to make the point of how can the bible be the true inspired word of god when it is filled with hipocracies.



This is just a subject for the bored and un/ill-informed.


I know it must be hard to accept the fact the bible condones slavery. As I stated in an earlier post I was raised and baptized a christian and read the bible every day for 10 years. Slowely but surely I was able to see the truth and the truth is the bible cannot be the true inspired word of god if it is full of hipocracies. Thats not to say Im not a spirtual person anymore, in fact I am more spirtual today than I ever have been and a big reason for that is I am accepting of other peoples views on spirtuality and religion and not trapped in the old christian belief system that if you dont believe jesus is your saviour your going to hell.

I know slavery went on all over the world and might even still today in some parts.
But the fact is the bible is held up by christians to be the inspired word of god and that inspired word condones the beating, buying and selling of humans for slavery.



posted on Dec, 1 2006 @ 04:13 PM
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Originally posted by laiguana
So your justifying enslavement as a form of employment? Do you think humanitarian groups existed in those days to keep check if all slaves were indeed being treated fairly or not? I think it's rather naive to say that slaves were kept around with their interests in mind. Hence the name SLAVE.
What about the men that couldn't afford payment but sold one of his daughters or young boys to slavehood as payment? That was -okay- according to one of the passages in the bible and it even have instructions on how to do it. I also think it's naive to say that these young slaves were not taken advantage of whether it be through harsh unneccesary punishments or for sexual interests.
Again, I only see people here making up excuses for slavery, but they fail to address the passages that have been cited here.


I'm not justifying squat!! but I do think that our modern day concept of employment evolved from the old idea slaves. and, well, while we knock around the religions of the world because some of their founders didn't have our evolved moral values....are we lying to ourselves when we claim to honor and charish freedom so much while we run up our personal debt, watch our country run up their trade deficit and budget deficit.... is it really that honorable to pay a rather significant part of the population so little that they are forced to allow themselves to be in a very vulnerable position as to be living via credit cards or just as bad, under the government's care. don't you realize that theat debt enslaves people, and the social service net is just a trap waiting to be sprung?

if you want my opinion, if christ and the christians had put things on the table and tried to correct all these social problems too quickly it would have led to chaos. what, we ended up having a civil war over it...then what happened to the slaves afterwards? how long were they sharecroppers, or taking whatever menial tasks they could get for pathetic wages. how long did it take for women to go from what was close to being a slave to what she has today.
the problem isn't what christ did or didn't say...he said what was needed...do unto others as you would like others to do to you. the problem is we just don't listen too well, never have, never will... there will always be those who are priviledge, who will come up with a million and one excuses as to why they should have so much more than everyone else...and there will always be those who society feels don't deserve the means to live... and society will come up with all kinds of schemes and scams to alleviate the guilt that arises when the "not so worthies" are seen suffering because of their callousness. slavery is one type of scam....but so isn't hiring headhunters to go south across the border and recruit labor because the company wants to pay a wage so inadequate that they can't get any americans to accept the employment!



posted on Dec, 1 2006 @ 05:04 PM
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if you want my opinion, if christ and the christians had put things on the table and tried to correct all these social problems too quickly it would have led to chaos.


Why didn't god just give Moses another commandment?

Thou shalt not own or have slaves.

Seriously these excuses as to why it was not done are really pathetic. Its just an attempt to make excuses for something we all know is wrong today and was wrong from the beginning of its inception.

[edit on 1-12-2006 by etshrtslr]



posted on Dec, 1 2006 @ 05:25 PM
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let us simplify this..

to have a slave is a choice......
to BE a slave is a choice......

FREE-WILL...

One who serves another is a slave? .... or a servant? ... is one better than another?

is the master better than the servant? because the master knows what he wants? and the servant is pleased to give him what he wants in order to recieve what the servant 'needs'?

The master supplies shelter whereas the servant has not the ability to seek adequate housing.. (up to their own standards) but the servant has the ability to fulfill ones needs who knows what they desire within ability.

I tell you, until you make yourself as servants to eachother you will not see heaven.



posted on Dec, 1 2006 @ 05:30 PM
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Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy
One who serves another is a slave? .... or a servant? ... is one better than another?

I tell you, until you make yourself as servants to eachother you will not see heaven.


Could you also say, "Until you make yourself as slaves to each other you will not see Heaven?" It doesn't really have the same ring to it in my opinion.

And actually, maybe not in biblical times, but today there is, indeed, a difference between the word "slave" and the word "servant". And the difference contradicts one of your statements which I failed to quote. A servant is one who serves by choice. A slave is one who serves because he has no choice. And you can argue all day about how everything is a choice, but let's face it, if your choices are be a slave or be beaten to death, there's really no choice.

[edit on 1/12/06 by an3rkist]



posted on Dec, 1 2006 @ 05:49 PM
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PuRe EnErGy,

I know what your trying to say.

Ultimately everything we do in our physical existence is a choice or free will.

The point Ive been trying to make is that the one true creator would not make his so called word a virtual how to manual on how to beat your slaves to make sure they live for a few days so they don't die so the slave owner has to now be punished with death. I also don't think the true creator would tell one how to buy, sell and trade slaves.

I also don't think these are things the creator of all that is would concern itself with. Slavery is the concern of mortal humans.



posted on Dec, 1 2006 @ 05:59 PM
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Originally posted by etshrtslr
I also don't think these are things the creator of all that is would concern itself with. Slavery is the concern of mortal humans.


I just have to say this even though I know I'm probably gonna take some heat for it:

In essence, aren't we all just slaves to this "God"? Perhaps the Bible is the word of God and slavery is divine mandate!


I don't really believe this because I don't believe in God, but let's face it: if the God of the Bible is real, we're all just slaves to His will.


[edit on 1/12/06 by an3rkist]



posted on Dec, 1 2006 @ 06:15 PM
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Originally posted by an3rkist

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy
One who serves another is a slave? .... or a servant? ... is one better than another?

I tell you, until you make yourself as servants to eachother you will not see heaven.


Could you also say, "Until you make yourself as slaves to each other you will not see Heaven?" It doesn't really have the same ring to it in my opinion.

And actually, maybe not in biblical times, but today there is, indeed, a difference between the word "slave" and the word "servant". And the difference contradicts one of your statements which I failed to quote. A servant is one who serves by choice. A slave is one who serves because he has no choice. And you can argue all day about how everything is a choice, but let's face it, if your choices are be a slave or be beaten to death, there's really no choice.

[edit on 1/12/06 by an3rkist]


Its funny you say beaten to death as if thats the only other choice the person has..

most slaves just do not think for themselves so they believe they need taking care of..

sure slaves were beaten and killed in previous times... NOW slaves are hidden because slavery with force is no longer appropiate, ... they have been called servants now, because they know what their master wants.. and their master knows what they want.. (money in our worldly sense)
But I'm sure you understand what I'm saying...

when one recognizes Christ within themselves they are no longer slaves to anyone else except themselves (the Christ within) .. because they call no mortal man master....



posted on Dec, 1 2006 @ 06:59 PM
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Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy
most slaves just do not think for themselves so they believe they need taking care of..


Are you seriously blaming slaves for being in that situation? Oh my god...that's repulsive, to say the least.


they have been called servants now, because they know what their master wants.. and their master knows what they want.. (money in our worldly sense)
But I'm sure you understand what I'm saying...


No, I don't understand what you're saying. Type in "human trafficking" in Google and see what comes up. "Human trafficking" is the term used today for the slave trade. In South Korea I had personal experience with human trafficking. Girls referred to as "drinkie girls" because you had to pay to have a drink and talk with them, were literally owned by the owners of clubs outside the military posts. My friend fell in love with a drinkie girl and had to buy her contract for $5000 from the club owner to get her passport back from the club owner. I can't believe you would blame these girls if you knew their situation. They are slaves and they do not have many choices besides death or prison. This is real life. This is reality


when one recognizes Christ within themselves they are no longer slaves to anyone else except themselves (the Christ within) .. because they call no mortal man master....


Where is Christ in the drinkie girl's lives? Why does he allow them to be taken as slaves? I'm not saying you're wrong to believe in Christ, but I am saying that there are slaves in the world, and it's wrong. And the whole point of this thread, in my opinion, is to show that the Bible is an outdated book full of inconsistencies, and although it may have some good guidelines for how to live your life, it cannot be taken one hundred percent literally. Period.



posted on Dec, 1 2006 @ 07:12 PM
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an3rkist,

Let me just say this first, I appreciate your contribution to this thread. I know you and I are coming from this debate from the opposite sides and I respect that. That being said, I think the god of the the so called Hebrew and christian bible is a false god for the reason Ive stated here adnausium. I will also include the Koran in that group.

Any so called holy book that condones the sacrifice, killing or enslavement of humans cannot come from God. And I don't think any one religion has a monopoly on the so called truth.

The true creator of all that is would not concern them selves with the debates we are engaged in and I think they would most certainly not write a how to manual on killing, child abuse and slavery.

One of the question I asked in the OP, was the bible just a tool for control of humankind and after reading it every day for 10 years I have come to that conclusion.

As I said before I am a deeply spiritual person and I'm not inclined to tell others what they should believe, but whenever I see inconsistencies or hypocrisies in religious teachings I will do my best to point them out.

[edit on 1-12-2006 by etshrtslr]

[edit on 1-12-2006 by etshrtslr]



posted on Dec, 1 2006 @ 07:27 PM
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From what I recall during the enslavement of african/americans, slave owners would use the Bible to justify their actions. I'm sure they used the passages that I cited earlier in this thread as well, as they give you instructions on how to purchase/sell and tend to slaves. So it seems these slave owners were in fact taking the bible on a literal basis. Is that wrong for them to do?



posted on Dec, 1 2006 @ 07:38 PM
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Originally posted by an3rkist

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy
most slaves just do not think for themselves so they believe they need taking care of..


Are you seriously blaming slaves for being in that situation? Oh my god...that's repulsive, to say the least.


they have been called servants now, because they know what their master wants.. and their master knows what they want.. (money in our worldly sense)
But I'm sure you understand what I'm saying...


No, I don't understand what you're saying. Type in "human trafficking" in Google and see what comes up. "Human trafficking" is the term used today for the slave trade. In South Korea I had personal experience with human trafficking. Girls referred to as "drinkie girls" because you had to pay to have a drink and talk with them, were literally owned by the owners of clubs outside the military posts. My friend fell in love with a drinkie girl and had to buy her contract for $5000 from the club owner to get her passport back from the club owner. I can't believe you would blame these girls if you knew their situation. They are slaves and they do not have many choices besides death or prison. This is real life. This is reality


when one recognizes Christ within themselves they are no longer slaves to anyone else except themselves (the Christ within) .. because they call no mortal man master....


Where is Christ in the drinkie girl's lives? Why does he allow them to be taken as slaves? I'm not saying you're wrong to believe in Christ, but I am saying that there are slaves in the world, and it's wrong. And the whole point of this thread, in my opinion, is to show that the Bible is an outdated book full of inconsistencies, and although it may have some good guidelines for how to live your life, it cannot be taken one hundred percent literally. Period.


Actually I'm very glad you bring up these problems.. because thats the only way to find a solution .. is to find a problem..

Are you seriously blaming slaves for being in that situation? Oh my god...that's repulsive, to say the least.

I blame NO ONE.... We are ALL born into the same state.. ignorance..
Its our jobs as humans to WANT knowledge..

No, I don't understand what you're saying. Type in "human trafficking" in Google and see what comes up. "Human trafficking" is the term used today for the slave trade.

Okay, I was ignorant to the blatant slavery that goes on in our day-to-day lives..
like the prisoners who are LEGAL slaves because they have commited crimes.. (whether it was selling pot, or stealing something to feed themselves or their family)
are you blaming them too? we can't play favorites.. do you condone the slavery of the citizens from your very city? ...
Those people made a poor choice right? .. criminals.. (well that goes beyond the criminals 'still' out-there..)

Now, not being ignorant of any slavery... admitting the absolutely down-trodden condition of some, if not all places on earth..

Is it their fault? ... no... its all of our faults.. .for promoting or allowing things like this to continue... in hiding or in the open... legally or illegally.. and I'll tell you the LEGAL slaves are the least recognized..

Since we both bring up amazing points... what about the over-all point we're trying to make... that these people NEED help... OUR HELP...

as I said earlier I blame no ONE..... I blame all equally.. and I commend all equally..

I find it obvious that you would ridicule the idea of CHRIST...

Where is Christ in the drinkie girl's lives? Why does he allow them to be taken as slaves?

Why are you looking for Christ in their life? .. why do you allocate him in a person who has authority to do things you can do...
Christ is not a person... its a THOUGHT-FORCE....

You are being cynical..

And the whole point of this thread, in my opinion, is to show that the Bible is an outdated book full of inconsistencies, and although it may have some good guidelines for how to live your life, it cannot be taken one hundred percent literally. Period.

and my whole point is.. that its highly misunderstood... it is highly CONSISTANT in its message and meaning.. and is not a guideline .. but a declaration that this is how things are... it cannot be taken literally or for what it IS... but has to be taken literally for what it CAN be.. They are excellent stories for showing you the power of thought.



posted on Dec, 1 2006 @ 07:51 PM
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PuRe EnErGy,

Man.... there are so many thoughts in your last statement that I agree with and an equal amount that I don't.

However, I really do think you and I are in agreement on so many things, for example energy and thoughts, and we are are responsible for what happens to us in this plane of existence. I could go on and name more but I'm pressed for time.

Please lets all continue this debate from whatever side your on.

[edit on 1-12-2006 by etshrtslr]



posted on Dec, 1 2006 @ 08:00 PM
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laiguana,

You are correct, the bible was used by the confederates prior to and during the civil war for the justification of slavery. And Im sure in certain parts of the south in the united states it still is.


"[Slavery] was established by decree of Almighty God...it is sanctioned in the Bible, in both Testaments, from Genesis to Revelation...it has existed in all ages, has been found among the people of the highest civilization, and in nations of the highest proficiency in the arts." Jefferson Davis, President of the Confederate States of America



"There is not one verse in the Bible inhibiting slavery, but many regulating it. It is not then, we conclude, immoral." Rev. Alexander Campbell



"The right of holding slaves is clearly established in the Holy Scriptures, both by precept and example." Rev. R. Furman, D.D., Baptist, of South Carolina





"The hope of civilization itself hangs on the defeat of Negro suffrage." A statement by a prominent 19th-century southern Presbyterian pastor, cited by Rev. Jack Rogers, moderator of the Presbyterian Church (USA).



"The doom of Ham has been branded on the form and features of his African descendants. The hand of fate has united his color and destiny. Man cannot separate what God hath joined." United States Senator James Henry Hammond.

www.religioustolerance.org...



posted on Dec, 1 2006 @ 09:35 PM
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Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy
I blame NO ONE.... We are ALL born into the same state.. ignorance..
Its our jobs as humans to WANT knowledge..


Knowledge? I agree that everyone is born into ignorance, but some people are born into freedom and some are not. We're not talking about people's knowledge of anything, we're talking about them being slaves. Believe it or not, knowledge will not always free a person from slavery.


Okay, I was ignorant to the blatant slavery that goes on in our day-to-day lives..like the prisoners who are LEGAL slaves because they have commited crimes.. (whether it was selling pot, or stealing something to feed themselves or their family)are you blaming them too? we can't play favorites.. do you condone the slavery of the citizens from your very city? ... Those people made a poor choice right? .. criminals.. (well that goes beyond the criminals 'still' out-there..)


I think we're all getting worked up over the actual definition of a slave. I wouldn't call prisoners slaves, but I would call slaves prisoners. The subject at hand is people who have committed no crimes, but are forced to live a life of servitude, most likely in large part due to their ethnic origin, but not always.


Is it their fault? ... no... its all of our faults.. .for promoting or allowing things like this to continue...


That's exactly the point: should it be allowed to happen because the Bible condoned it? NO! But people do justify it using the Bible. The Confederates back in the Civil War, and today Reconstructionist Christians are doing the same thing.


Why are you looking for Christ in their life?


I'm looking for Christ in their life to see if perhaps you were right when you said, "when one recognizes Christ within themselves they are no longer slaves to anyone else except themselves (the Christ within)." But I guess you meant that Christ will only help people if they ask. (Am I wrong about that?)


it cannot be taken literally or for what it IS... but has to be taken literally for what it CAN be.


See, now we're getting somewhere. The whole goal behind this thread is to try and prove that the Bible cannot be taken literally. Now you started to say that, but finished with a somewhat foggy statement that really doesn't make sense to me, but I may just be misunderstanding the statement.

[edit on 1/12/06 by an3rkist]



posted on Dec, 2 2006 @ 04:55 AM
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Originally posted by etshrtslr


Why didn't god just give Moses another commandment?

Thou shalt not own or have slaves.

Seriously these excuses as to why it was not done are really pathetic. Its just an attempt to make excuses for something we all know is wrong today and was wrong from the beginning of its inception.

[edit on 1-12-2006 by etshrtslr]


I didn't say anything about Moses and his followers, did I?? I said Christ...you know the one who society loved so much that they hung him on a cross...and the early christians, who till they merged with the Roman Empire and allowed it to contaminate the original message, were fed to the lions. the early christians were told to follow the laws laid down by the early Roman empire, were they not? the law told them to return run away slaves. so, how much of a chance do you think the early christians would have had if they didn't return runaway slaves and started having them flock into their communities. Think maybe they would have been lion food a little sooner?

but, no, you want to go all the way back to moses....why not abraham?? why not genesis and the first institution of slavery...what we call marriage? ya know the original description of marraige goes something like this....the man leaves his father and mother, and goes to his wife, in her village, with her people...not his. he joins her clan!! it's a maternal order.... it sure the heck doesn't decribe men going out conquering villages and nations and selecting the most beautiful of the women to take as their wives and concubines now does it? there are two Gods expressing themselves in the Bible, if you think the God of heaven actually presented anyone with the rules of enslavement, you are listening to the wrong one! God gave the writers of the book the wrong answer, so they twisted the message just a little to make it more acceptable to them and the rest of society....cheap labor is all so important ya know!!! by the time christianity came into the picture.....the religion you prefer to knock....the institutions were set in stone!! so, knock your male ancestors of long ago who desired to know their offspring so much that they knock women down a rung to second or third class citizens to get their way!!! that was the first slave system, and well, it conditions the children living in such a situtation that some of our members were suited to be ruled, others are suited to be rulers...all the rest came rather naturally after that.

blame whoever you like, really....but, well, I am just happy (and rather amazed) that mankind has evolved as much as he has. do unto others as you would have them do unto you says it all....



posted on Dec, 2 2006 @ 09:08 AM
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dawnstar,

The purpose of the moses comment was to show that god could have gave a commandment to end slavery yet he did not.



God gave the writers of the book the wrong answer, so they twisted the message just a little to make it more acceptable to them and the rest of society


That's pretty much the point Ive been trying to make in this thread.....The bible is not the inspired word of god as so many christians would have us believe.



by the time christianity came into the picture.....the religion you prefer to knock....the institutions were set in stone!


Yes they were set in stone because no one wanted to change them. I also don't recall Jesus ever saying in the bible that it was wrong to own slaves. There was plenty of time in the 2000 years since Jesus to condemn the practice of slavery in christianity. It took a civil war in the united state to end slavery and one side used the bible up to the very end as justification for owning slaves.



posted on Dec, 2 2006 @ 10:57 AM
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Originally posted by an3rkist

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy
I blame NO ONE.... We are ALL born into the same state.. ignorance..
Its our jobs as humans to WANT knowledge..


Knowledge? I agree that everyone is born into ignorance, but some people are born into freedom and some are not. We're not talking about people's knowledge of anything, we're talking about them being slaves. Believe it or not, knowledge will not always free a person from slavery.


Tell me about it.. You could even write them a book, detailing exactly how to be free and the slaves STILL won't get it..

The Dummy's Guide To Becoming A Slave Master... Best Seller!

and still people are slaves... Why? .. because believe it or not... people ENJOY having a messiah... enjoy having people to pay taxes too... enjoy wiping their behinds, enjoy working a 9-5 job that pays you 40 bucks a day.., enjoy going to school EVERYDAY to just obtain a crappy 9-5 job... enjoy having millions of jobs available but none of them can pay for my desired quality of life..
the quality of life that's dictated to me by my slave master, the government.. and the industries.. television, merchanidizing, etc.. etc.. my life is a result of their intentions and bank-statements..

I'm sorry you ran out of paint after those Korean sex slaves you amazingly have followed/learned about.....
but every slave is equal and recieves the same stroke of paint...
sorry those prisoner slaves aren't "slavey" enough for you ... you know they do desperately require to be maltreated and under-paid while the 'owners' get rich off of their hard-work... Want an Apple-Bees or McDonalds Uniform anyone? ... Prison made uniforms for a horrible company?..

I lived in a town where they had hidden sweat-shops.. I seen these people everyday, wondering to myself .. "thats an odd place for a bunch of foreign people to be working" .. so I talked to them.... and believe it or not... it was an upgrade from where they were... they were illegal immigrants.. being under-paid by force.. yet they DID what they had to.. because they were in a situation now.. a situation they believed they put themselves in..

They couldn't get a 'normal' job because of our 'LAWS'... so they had to find work from whoever would pay them.. and since these people knew they didn't have to pay them normal wages they just paid them 2 bucks an hour... thats plenty more than a lot of other slaves... but plenty less than us government slaves..

than theres the asians that work the rub and tug massage parlours, 10-14 year old girls in CANADA! and the UNITED STATES! who are forced to work in the sex trade...
the list goes on and on and on.... WE ARE ALL SLAVES even the people who write the rules are slaves to their own designs..

We are all slaves to each-other whether we recognize it or not... the key to that knowledge it to accept it, and make the best of a bad situation.. like many slaves do.
but many make worse the bad situation that's there.. by NOT doing anything BUT complaining about it..
So until we are out there freeing these slaves we have no right to complain..
We can't complain about what we don't/can't/won't change. I myself try to make everyone realize that they are solely responsible for their life and lifes actions.. as well as remind myself that this is so.

So your right.. because all of this knowledge has possessed NO ONE to do ANYTHING... a person has to make the moves WITH the knowledge...
its like knowing the steps to a dance.. but just being dragged across the dance-floor.




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