It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Slavery and the Bible

page: 1
0
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Nov, 28 2006 @ 04:39 PM
link   
The bible mentions slavery from the front cover to the back and yet nowhere does it condemn it.

Nowhere in the bible does Jesus condemn slavery.

Is the bible really the inspired word of God when for centuries it has been used as justification to enslave and subjugate people?

Or is the bible just a tool to manipulate and control the masses?


"[Slavery] was established by decree of Almighty God...it is sanctioned in the Bible, in both Testaments, from Genesis to Revelation...it has existed in all ages, has been found among the people of the highest civilization, and in nations of the highest proficiency in the arts." Jefferson Davis, President of the Confederate States of America.



Neither Jesus nor St. Paul, nor any other Biblical figure is recorded as saying anything in opposition to the institution of slavery. Slavery was very much a part of life in Palestine and in the rest of the Roman Empire during New Testament times. Quoting Rabbi M.J. Raphall, circa 1861, "Receiving slavery as one of the conditions of society, the New Testament nowhere interferes with or contradicts the slave code of Moses; it even preserves a letter [to Philemon] written by one of the most eminent Christian teachers [St. Paul] to a slave owner on sending back to him his runaway slave."


www.religioustolerance.org...




posted on Nov, 28 2006 @ 04:59 PM
link   
Yep. I remember reading the bible when I was younger and was appalled.

The punishment for killing a Jewish man's ox was greater than killing his slave if I remember correctly. Also, it was a lesser crime to kill a woman, and an even lesser crime to kill a child. Such are the laws layed down by "God".

IMO, Christians would have a lot more going for them if they just ripped out the old testament completely. Heh, maybe some have. There's what... over a hundred thousand different denominations now?

The OT was written by primitive man (key word too, "man", no rights for women there). Humanity is a bit more grown up now... time to move on.



posted on Nov, 28 2006 @ 05:19 PM
link   


IMO, Christians would have a lot more going for them if they just ripped out the old testament completely.


Its in the NT also....Jesus never condemned slavery and Paul (Saul) ( the author of several NT books) even returned a slave of a christan owner. He never condomned it or set him free.

It seems it was condoned by all in both the old testament and the new and a accepted way of life. And these are the same people where we get our so called spirtual guidance from.

I think it answers why this world is in such a sorry state of affairs today.

Women, childern and slaves were considerd property to be exploited in the bible. So I ask how can the bible have any moral authority?



posted on Nov, 28 2006 @ 05:25 PM
link   
When I think of the Old Testament, I think of a quote by Richard Dawkins:


The god of the Old Testament has got to be the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it, petty, vindictive, unjust, unforgiving, racist, an ethnic-cleanser urging his people on to acts of genocide.


But seriously, here's a quote by Reverand Alexander Campbell:


"There is not one verse in the Bible inhibiting slavery, but many regulating it. It is not then, we conclude, immoral.


Ummmmm, wow... SLAVERY IS NOT IMMORAL SO SAYS THE GOOD BOOK!

Also, different versions of the Bible have changed the way this is worded, but from the Hebrew version of the Bible, listen to Exodus 21:20:


When a man strikes his slave, male or female, and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. But if the slave survives a day or two, he is not to be punished; for the slave is his money.


So as long as your slave lives longer than a day you're golden!

[edit on 28/11/06 by an3rkist]



posted on Nov, 28 2006 @ 05:34 PM
link   
While I dont fully agree with what is said in the bible about slavery, I think you guys are blowing an old institution out of proportion. Slavery was a fact of life in ancient times and was often the only hope for a poor person to make a living.

God gave the Jews strict laws governing the treatment of slaves as well. They were to be set free on the jubilee year with a portion of what they helped earn.

Also, slavery in the roman empire decreased greatly in the years following christ.



The New Testament does not pass judgment on slavery. It clearly reveals the sovereignty of God, and the high estimate God has of each individual person. When man sees the value of human life and applies the principles of Christianity to his fellow man, slavery disappears. We know that the Romans freed slaves in enormous numbers during the 2nd and 3rd centuries A.D. Most scholars believe this was the direct result of "applied Christianity."


Link: www.scripturessay.com...

I would also like to point out that the quakers, fundamentalist christians, abolished slavery within their communities in early america.







[edit on 28-11-2006 by XphilesPhan]

[edit on 28-11-2006 by XphilesPhan]



posted on Nov, 28 2006 @ 05:48 PM
link   


I think you guys are blowing an old institution out of proportion. Slavery was a fact of life in ancient times and was often the only hope for a poor person to make a living.


That still does not make it right!!!!!!

Paasages in the bible were used to justify slavery during the cival war between the states.

Its been used as justification for centuries as an excuse to enslave people.

The fact is the bible never condomned slavery in either the OT or NT so why should the bible have any moral authority?



posted on Nov, 28 2006 @ 05:56 PM
link   
For those that still think that slavery is only in the old testament I give you passages from the new testament.



But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. Matthew 18:25



One of the favorite passages of slave-owning Christians was St. Paul's infamous instruction that slaves to obey their owners in the same way that they obey Christ:



"Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ; Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men: Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free. And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him."Ephesians 6:5-9:



posted on Nov, 29 2006 @ 12:09 AM
link   

Originally posted by etshrtslr
Slavery and the Bible

The bible mentions slavery from the front cover to the back and yet nowhere does it condemn it.


Really? I was under the impression that Moses's whole mission was to:


"Set My People Free"

-Moses

And, i was also under the impression that Moses's was the one who presented the first five books of the bible.

So, it seems to me that the entire bible began on the premise of being against slavery, the exact opposite of what you are saying.


Nowhere in the bible does Jesus condemn slavery.


Perhaps you were not paying attention, then.

Slavery was the effect!
Money was the cause of slavery!

And, yes! Jesus did condemn money!!!!



Is the bible really the inspired word of God when for centuries it has been used as justification to enslave and subjugate people?


NO! People are still using money. money is the means of controlling the masses. Jesus did say allot against money! According to many reports, it was why he was hung on the cross, after turning over the tables of the money-changers at the Temple!

So, devout followers of the word of God, i ask you:

Would there be slavery, if there were no greed, or greed for money?

Yet, it seems humanity is not willing or capable to follow the word. Instead we look for ways to slander the word of God, and be a slave to money.



Or is the bible just a tool to manipulate and control the masses?


Would there be slavery if there were no money?

Truth is the currency of heaven.

Humanity has had 7,000 years of recorded history. And nowhere in that 7,000 years has mankind succeeded in producing 7 consecutive days (one week) without war, killing, and destruction. But, evidently this is a good track record for judging God, evidently.

The bible began with the first 5 books of the Torah. Written by a man who liberated an entire culture from the most powerful government on Earth. And you say it promotes slavery?



Nowhere in the bible does Jesus condemn slavery.


How would you know? What basis for comparison is there in your mind, or any human's mind to answer this question:

Would slavery exist if money did not?



Nowhere in the bible does Jesus condemn slavery.



posted on Nov, 29 2006 @ 12:17 AM
link   
The Bible also says to kill gay people, "a man lying with another man as he would with a woman." but we don't do that now do we.

I believe it was the Pope who eventually condemned slavery, not too sure. And since the Bible is not subject to editing, at least in the traditional church, there have been no additions to it in anyway condemning slavery and the such.
For Catholics, the Bible is a moral authority; however, the final moral authority is the Pope and The Vatican, the Bishops of the Church.

[edit on 29-11-2006 by soshootme]



posted on Nov, 29 2006 @ 01:08 AM
link   

Originally posted by etshrtslr



I think you guys are blowing an old institution out of proportion. Slavery was a fact of life in ancient times and was often the only hope for a poor person to make a living.


That still does not make it right!!!!!!


no, it doesnt. but this was more than 2,000 years ago.



posted on Nov, 29 2006 @ 01:17 AM
link   

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
no, it doesnt. but this was more than 2,000 years ago.


True, so how can we take anything in the Bible as true if we're going to discount the validity of these verses. I can go and kill someone, you can say, "hey that's against the Ten Commandments!" and I can just say, "That commandment is so 2,000 years ago!" I think the whole point of this thread is to make the point that if we can't take what the Bible says about slavery literally, then should we be taking anything from the Bible literally?



posted on Nov, 29 2006 @ 01:43 AM
link   

Originally posted by an3rkist
I think the whole point of this thread is to make the point that if we can't take what the Bible says about slavery literally, then should we be taking anything from the Bible literally?


But, you and the original poster, neither of you have taken the bible literally.

There are no inconsistancies in the bible, whatsoever.

Of course you could believe this, had you EVER (just once) taken the bible literally.

It's encoded. Everything that has happened, is happening, or ever will happen, has all been encoded into the bible.


What is the 9th letter of the alphabet?
What is the 1st letter of the alphabet?
What is the 13th letter of the alphabet?

What do those letters look like?

What does the order of the corresponding numbers look like?

9 1 13

911 trinity?



posted on Nov, 29 2006 @ 02:05 AM
link   

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
But, you and the original poster, neither of you have taken the bible literally.


It's my opinion that nobody in the history of the human race has ever taken the Bible literally, because it is so full of inconsistencies that would be impossible.


There are no inconsistancies in the bible, whatsoever.


Do you have any evidence whatsoever to back this up? I googled "inconsistencies in the Bible" and this is the first link that came up:

www.infidels.org...

This page is a list of inconsistencies that is so long I refuse to even bother reading more than just a few. In case you were too narrow-minded and stubborn to click on a link that might prove you wrong, here is some of the ones it lists:


JE 34:4-5 Zedekiah was to die in peace.
JE 52:10-11 Instead, Zedekaih's sons are slain before his eyes, his eyes are then put out, he is bound in fetters, taken to Babylon and left in prison to die.



MT 7:1-2 Do not judge.
MT 7:15-20 Instructions for judging a false prophet



MT 9:18 The ruler's daughter was already dead when Jesus raised her.
LK 8:42 She was dying, but not dead.



MT 16:18 Jesus founds his church on Peter and will give him the keys of the kingdom.
MT 16:23 Jesus calls Peter [a] "Satan" and "a hindrance," and accuses him of being on the side of men rather than that of God.



MT 21:12-13 The cleansing of the temple occurs at the end of Jesus' career.
JN 2:13-16 It occurs near the beginning of his career.


That's just five of a ridiculous amount of listed inconsistencies. This whole post may seem off topic, but I honestly believe the topic is that nobody can take the Bible literally without throwing themselves into a multitude of paradoxes which can either be blamed on the imperfection of man or the falacy of it's teachings, but either way this "Holy Book" cannot be taken literally in every aspect of it's teachings.


It's encoded.


Is this going to be your argument against all those inconsistencies? I guess it's about the same as saying "God works in mysterious ways" when you can't explain why he does certain things.

[edit on 29/11/06 by an3rkist]



posted on Nov, 29 2006 @ 02:44 AM
link   
Well I was raised Catholic, and I never quite understood people's sheep mentality. So I read the bible myself. There are plenty of verses in the bible that support slavery, selling your family, usually daughters to (whatever) I suppose. The bible also provides itself almost like an instructional manual on how to purchase and sell slaves.
Samples:

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)



If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)



When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)


Now to be fair I will say that there are also verses that may contradict all this, but which would you believe? If it's convenience, who knows, it depends on the individual, or authority of the church.
And FYI I have nothing against modern day christians who make up most of my family and friends, so far I haven't seen any of them praciticing any of the above.



posted on Nov, 29 2006 @ 03:02 AM
link   

Originally posted by an3rkist

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
But, you and the original poster, neither of you have taken the bible literally.


It's my opinion that nobody in the history of the human race has ever taken the Bible literally, because it is so full of inconsistencies that would be impossible.


Nice post, supported by your opinion. And yet, you don't even know what an "opinion" is.



There are no inconsistancies in the bible, whatsoever.


Do you have any evidence whatsoever to back this up?


Literally, yes, i do. it is the bible itself. it is the bible itself that proves there is no inconsistancies in the bible.



I googled "inconsistencies in the Bible" and this is the first link that came up:

www.infidels.org...

This page is a list of inconsistencies that is so long I refuse to even bother reading more than just a few. In case you were too narrow-minded and stubborn to click on a link that might prove you wrong, here is some of the ones it lists:


i guess i was too narrow minded and stubborn to believe their "opinions" either.

Why?

The bible. Perhaps if you were not so broad minded (big headed), you would have chosen to apply the rules of "The Word" to that book that said it was "The Word".



"Judge not lest thee be judged"


and, yet the bible judges, right? So, unless the author was a hypocrit, then we obviously have the right to judge the bible, right?

no. not with your broad minded (big headed) "opinion"!

But rather by the rules of the word!

Yes, literally believe in the bible, and in god. have you ever? NO! Therefore, you have absolutley no basis for comparison in that BROAD BIG HEAD OF YOURS, SWELLING WITH: "opinions"

Here is some truth to pit against your "opinion"



"We are in the dominion that is not heaven"


then, obviously everthing is opposite that of heaven, right?



"They will be led by the mind of a child"


then, spell the word out like a child would spell it, phoenetically.

*Actually, any group of rules from the bible, when applied to the bible, will give you many infinite truths. but, since god is real, then you can apply it to any words, and any languages. In fact, i already have a thread with a few hundred examples of this, but here are a few:


ARE = R
YOU = U

ARE YOU TAME?

tame has a silent "e" that makes no sound. a deciever, i'll take it out for a second.

R U TAM [mirror] MATUR ........ ok, you can have your "e" that makes no sound:

ARE YOU TAME = MATURE


*pretty neat for a narrow minded stubborn....

But what about the bible? Well, let's look where it all started then, shall we?


N U D E [mirror] E D U N

that's right! They were NUDE in the garden of EDUN!


pretty neat for a narrow minded stubborn.....

What about every day life, and stuff?


SEE = C

SEE I FART?

C I F A R T [mirror] T R A F I C


Who built the Great Pyramid?



KUFU / CHEOPS

silly bulls (syllables for those with BIG HEADS), Olay!

FUK U SPOECH


NO LIE BABE!

NO LY BAB [mirror] BABYLON!


MT 16:18 Jesus founds his church on Peter and will give him the keys of the kingdom.


www.earlychristianwritings.com...


....... things of the right hand into left hand and the left hand into right hand, and changed about all the marks of their nature,......... Unless ye make the things of the right hand as those of the left, and those of the left as those of the right, and those that are above as those below, and those that are behind as those that are before, ye shall not have knowedge of the kingdom.



[edit on 29-11-2006 by Esoteric Teacher]



posted on Nov, 29 2006 @ 03:45 AM
link   

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
you don't even know what an "opinion" is.


This is getting a bit personal and will probably catch the attention of the mods soon, but exactly what evidence do you have to support that I, personally, do not know what an opinion is. And how in the world is that relevant?


Literally, yes, i do. it is the bible itself. it is the bible itself that proves there is no inconsistancies in the bible.


Well from a scientific standpoint this statement is an atrocity. But the Bible and science have never really gotten along, have they?



Perhaps if you were not so broad minded (big headed), you would have chosen to apply the rules of "The Word" to that book that said it was "The Word".


I mean no offense, but if you use this philosophy then you will believe me when I say that I am The Word.



Yes, literally believe in the bible, and in god. have you ever? NO! Therefore, you have absolutley no basis for comparison in that BROAD BIG HEAD OF YOURS, SWELLING WITH: "opinions"


I should take offense to your blatant insults, but as this forum is meant to lack in things that are so personal, I will take none. I will say that it is just slightly ignorant of you to make the assumption that I have never literally believed in the Bible, or in God. Believe it or not I used to be a member of religion and was very devout. I believed the Bible to be the Word of God. I believed in God whole-heartedly. I had faith. So please do not make assumptions without verifying your accusations, and please do not attempt to insult me. You can call me broad-minded all you want, as that is not necessarily an insult. "Big-headed" can be interpretted in two ways also, but the most prominent use of this term is an insult.


Here is some truth to pit against your "opinion"

"We are in the dominion that is not heaven"

then, obviously everthing is opposite that of heaven, right?


WRONG! Just because we are not Heaven does not mean everything is the opposite of Heaven. And may I ask you, since you didn't give us a reference for this quote, if this is coming from the Bible? Because if all your arguments are coming from the Bible this is a dead-end conversation.


But what about the bible? Well, let's look where it all started then, shall we?

N U D E [mirror] E D U N

that's right! They were NUDE in the garden of EDUN!


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it's spelled E-D-E-N


Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
NO LIE BABE!

NO LY BAB [mirror] BABYLON!


I think you're reading way too much into this...theory of yours. I could take a million different words, spell them backwords, change their spelling, and come up with a phrase that fits my changed spelling. What does this have to do with the subject at hand? How does this verify the validity of the Bible?

[edit on 29/11/06 by an3rkist]



posted on Nov, 29 2006 @ 09:00 AM
link   


Really? I was under the impression that Moses's whole mission was to:
"Set My People Free"
-Moses


Yes he did set "his people free" from the pharoh. But you still cannot get around the FACT "his people" owned slaves of foreigners and hebrews.

Slave owning and trading was a condoned practice in the bible.




Slavery was the effect!
Money was the cause of slavery!


Slaves were also used as a currency in and of themselves. Barter was used as an accepted means of excahge 2000 years ago and beyond.

There were slaves before there was money.

So to blame slavery on money has no foundation in fact its only your OPINION.



Would there be slavery if there were no money?


As I stated above there were slaves before there was money. Money is not the CAUSE of slavery.

[edit on 29-11-2006 by etshrtslr]



posted on Nov, 29 2006 @ 06:47 PM
link   
Esoteric Teacher,

I would like to expound upon my earlier post.

Money is capable of doing both good and evil.

In noway under any circumstance is slavery capable of doing any good.

So to equate slavery with the greed of money is the shallowest of arguments and is the ultimate strawman.

Slavery is wrong no matter what! And slavery did not come about because of money!

And if you believe that the bible is the word of God, then I submit to you that the bible proves the word of God condones slavery.

Lastly, I ask you this; what kind of God do you believe in? One that condones slavery?



posted on Nov, 30 2006 @ 05:00 AM
link   
Esoteric, what about this for one of your word merges.

To Intelligent design (ID) in a step

TO ID IN A STEP

Now P's are usually silent so we get

TO ID IN A STE

Reverse it

ETS AN IDIOT

ET's (ESOTERIC TEACHER's) AN IDIOT.

See how easy it is to MAKE STUFF UP to suit your 'argument'

G



posted on Nov, 30 2006 @ 05:47 AM
link   
That was a horrible attempt at debate and disprespectful Esoteric. An3rchist or however you spell did not insult anyone, he merely presented what he considered to be contradictions in the Bible.
I also quoted passages from the Bible, but I guess I'm BIG-HEADED because I can't seem to justify them for being there.
It's your Bible ET, if you're so insecure about its content you have to throw insults around then maybe you should not even bother discussing the subject with individuals that are not the same faith or creed as you.



new topics

top topics



 
0
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join