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The Grand Argument: Are Master Masons kept out of the "real purpose" of Freemasonry?

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posted on Nov, 27 2006 @ 02:15 AM
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This argument will be all encompassing. As a Master Mason I would argue that I could potentially wield more "power" in the craft than any 33rd degree Scottish Rite mason. And certainly more than the imaginary higher degrees.

First read about the most powerful man in Masonry HERE.

While that thread can be educational - this should be argumentative on the specific subject of is there secret masters pulling strings at high levels of Masonry?

My argument is there cannot be because masons are goverened by a loose confederacy where the most powerful man if anyone has more power than another is the Grand Master of the United Grand Lodge of England.

Regardless - there are numerous problems with logistics and practicality and rationality of a "secret supreme organization within an oranization".

You might as well invent one - the...Supreme Order of Dark Skulls - there you go.

They rule the Universe, they are secretive but their symbols are everywhere in our advertisements and in our movies to brain wash you for the coming of their Space Lord Gorbashek, from the planet Kilron.

There you have it - the secret is revealed.

Those who argue that Masonry is only a frontpiece, I believe may as well be arguing there is no God, or something else with equal lack of testability.

Rebuttal?




posted on Nov, 27 2006 @ 02:20 AM
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Masonry must be the base.

[edit on 27-11-2006 by In nothing we trust]



posted on Nov, 28 2006 @ 03:56 PM
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Simply put, Master Masons cannot be "out of the loop"; after all, Lodges of Master Masons before any other type of Masonry.

The so-called "higher degrees" cannot make a man any more of a Mason than is already is after having completed the Third Degree. The higher degrees can, however, make him a better Mason.



posted on Nov, 28 2006 @ 04:08 PM
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This thread will likely reach 7-10 pages with nothing being learned, everything being denied and all will leave PO'ed. How does one become a better mason without becoming more of a mason?



posted on Nov, 28 2006 @ 04:36 PM
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There could still be an organization that is secretly collecting a portion of the dues. They wouldn't be able to order anyone to do anything, but they'd be able to cook the books in order to get money from the rest of the organization, and then use that for their nefarious schemes (tm).



posted on Nov, 28 2006 @ 04:47 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
There could still be an organization that is secretly collecting a portion of the dues. They wouldn't be able to order anyone to do anything, but they'd be able to cook the books in order to get money from the rest of the organization, and then use that for their nefarious schemes (tm).


"Could" is a HUGE word
....almost as big as IF !

Most of the Masons I know are in their 70's and cant decide what they want for dinner much less how to enslave the world.

I also know that regardless of what I or any other Brother Masons say here the majority of people here have preconceived notions and are not likely to change their minds. Still... we try



posted on Nov, 28 2006 @ 04:52 PM
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Could is definitly a big if here. I don't beleive that what I outlined is what is actually happening. But, its a possibility. The unlikelyness of the setup doesn't definitively argue against it.

Anyway, the structure of masonry does argue against it being controlled, by, say, a cabal of 33rd Degree-ers, or anything like that.



posted on Nov, 28 2006 @ 06:47 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light
Simply put, Master Masons cannot be "out of the loop"; after all, Lodges of Master Masons before any other type of Masonry.

The so-called "higher degrees" cannot make a man any more of a Mason than is already is after having completed the Third Degree. The higher degrees can, however, make him a better Mason.




But until our Buddha-Nature or Tiphereth(erroneously called "the ego" by some Occultists) receives the Initiations Internally, we are certainly "out of the loop" whether we are members of a physical Lodge or not.

A Master Mason must know the significance of MeM in order to receive Internal Initiation, no?

And the "Higher Degrees" being the 33 Vertabrae of the Spinal Column, each one being an abode of Indra/Vajrapani.



posted on Nov, 29 2006 @ 07:56 AM
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Originally posted by Tamahu

A Master Mason must know the significance of MeM in order to receive Internal Initiation, no?

And the "Higher Degrees" being the 33 Vertabrae of the Spinal Column, each one being an abode of Indra/Vajrapani.


No.



posted on Nov, 29 2006 @ 09:10 AM
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Originally posted by Fifth Horseman
How does one become a better mason without becoming more of a mason?


is it nessisary for one to become more of a man before becomming a better man? no it is not. a man is born a man, it is a matter of genetics and genitalia. a man can strive to become a better man, but he can never become more of a man. (Though it could be argued philosophicly that he can become more manly, but thats not the same thing). the same is true of masonry.



posted on Nov, 29 2006 @ 09:39 AM
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Originally posted by Fifth Horseman
How does one become a better mason without becoming more of a mason?


Once one has been initiated into the Third Degree, he is a Master Mason. He cannot "become more of a Mason" than a Master.

However, the additional degrees shed additional light on the first three degrees, and give opportunity for additional study and thought. This could improve him internally, but does not add to his external rank as Master Mason.



posted on Nov, 29 2006 @ 09:42 AM
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Originally posted by Stratrf_Rus
you for the coming of their Space Lord Gorbashek, from the planet Kilron.

That’s Space Lord Kildron from the planet Gorbasheck! Duh! Are you sure you’re a Mason? :;




Those who argue that Masonry is only a frontpiece, I believe may as well be arguing there is no God, or something else with equal lack of testability.



Originally posted by Nygdan
…, and then use that for their nefarious schemes (tm).

The P2 Lodge is an example of a nefarious organization using masonry’s good name as a front piece for illegal activities. However, it’s the only example I can think of. An insolated incident, although it shows it could happen.



posted on Nov, 29 2006 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by Fifth Horseman
How does one become a better mason without becoming more of a mason?


Once one has been initiated into the Third Degree, he is a Master Mason. He cannot "become more of a Mason" than a Master.

However, the additional degrees shed additional light on the first three degrees, and give opportunity for additional study and thought. This could improve him internally, but does not add to his external rank as Master Mason.

I see...thanks for clearing that up. My sensei always poked fun at those who made sure that you knew they were higher than the first degree of black belt (shodan). He always said black doesn't get any blacker. When asked what degree he was, he would quickly reply "98.6 on a good day". I later learned that he was 5th degree. Humble man. Same thing?
Also is there any connection with interogation sometimes being called giving the third degree?



posted on Nov, 29 2006 @ 07:30 PM
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Originally posted by Fifth Horseman
I see...thanks for clearing that up. My sensei always poked fun at those who made sure that you knew they were higher than the first degree of black belt (shodan). He always said black doesn't get any blacker. When asked what degree he was, he would quickly reply "98.6 on a good day". I later learned that he was 5th degree. Humble man. Same thing?
Also is there any connection with interogation sometimes being called giving the third degree?


my sensei was the same way, oddly his surname was infact Mason, though i dont think he was one. he too was 5th degree in his chosen art, which he was as proud as he was humble about, he had been told years before, by one who was jealous of his friendship with the schools okinawan grandmaster, that he would never see 4th, let alone 5th



posted on Nov, 29 2006 @ 08:28 PM
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Originally posted by Fifth Horseman

Also is there any connection with interogation sometimes being called giving the third degree?


Traditionally, it is necessary to be declared proficient in a degree. This is done by memorizing the Catechism of the degree, which consists of a series of questions and answers.

When the candidate is ready, the catechismal questions are presented to him in open Lodge, and he repeats the answers. If found proficient, he then receives his Certificate.

The Third Degree Catechism is long and requires much study. From this came the slang term "give them the third degree" in regards to intense interrogation.



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