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This man wields the most power in all Freemasonry

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posted on Nov, 26 2006 @ 10:50 PM
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It's difficult to say that one man wields more power than another in Freemasonry. Where Masonry is concerned all are equal - but those elected officers serve the Master who is the supreme authority of his Lodge under God, the Grand Master and jokingly, his wife.

Theoretically each Grand Lodge is its own autonomous entity and thus the Grand Master in his Jurisdiction is supreme. This holds about as much water as the nuts in the Grand Lodge of the Orient.

Not to be confused with the GLdF or the Grand Lodge of France which is a Freemason's lodge.

So it is arguable that there is one Lodge supreme above all others, at least in respect, and for lodges to be recognized as being those of Free and Accepted Masons they seek to be recognized by the United Grand Lodge of England.

It didn't used to always be "supreme" it came to be that way through a trial of history where the division between the Grand Lodge of Ireland and Grand Lodge of England just wasn't working for the expanding British Empire (in a nutshell).

So if there is one man with more authority than all the rest in all of Freemasonry that man is the Grand Master of Masons in England.

Currently HRH The Duke of Kent.

This man can't make or unmake Masons outside his jurisdiction but he could see to it that a Grand Lodge be unrecognized should it break from the traditions of the Fraternity (such as what happend to the Grand Lodge of the Orient).

So therefore if you want to deal with the conspiracy theories of "only the highest ranking Masons know the truth" or whatever then you have a name to go off of.

Prince Edward George Nicholas Paul Patrick.

For your conspiracy theories to work he is the man who needs to be "hoodwinked" or "in on it".

Every conspiracy needs such a man for things to work - and if you cannot prove his connections then your theory holds no water.

Were that 33rd Degree Scottish Rite Masons in the US to be behind some uber satanic conspiracy it would take little dilliberation with his officers to disassociate United States Free Masonry from the rest of the world.

[edit on 26-11-2006 by Stratrf_Rus]




posted on Nov, 26 2006 @ 10:58 PM
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Is there a link you can provide that can give some of us that have NO IDEA about anything Mason, the history and maybe some background on the Mason's?

I would love to read some about it...

Thanks in advance...

Semper



posted on Nov, 26 2006 @ 11:00 PM
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Semper at the link I provided the pull down menus from the top there is some history about the United Grand Lodge which essentially is the history of Freemasonry.

Before 1717 all Freemasonry was known to be English with possible influence by the Templars (the more one researches the rituals of the Templars the more obvious it seems that Speculative Masonry was the merger of a Masons' Guild with outlawed Templars beginning in Scotland, there's just no physical evidence).

After 1717 Masonry began to expand to the colonies of the British Empire and their histories then begin.



posted on Nov, 26 2006 @ 11:05 PM
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Thank you,

I'll read that..

Was this a movement intended to become the organization it is today? Or did it evolve on it's own?

Why is there so much conspiracy that revolves around the Masons? Is it because of the Templars connection?

This is fascinating stuff..

Semper



posted on Nov, 27 2006 @ 12:01 AM
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Just because somebody is at the top of an organization's hierarchy, it does not mean he is the most influential or powerful person in the organizaiton. It does mean that he has the time and the desire to take on the job, while others may not. There may be people in Masonry who are far more important and influential than the guy you mentioned, but they are not the grand pubah because they do not wish to be the grand pubah, even though they could have the job in 2 seconds.

I am currently a graduate student. I am the president of 2 student clubs. It is not that I am the most important, the most respected, or the most liked in the club, I am just the only one who is willing to take on the responsibility. I would imagine becoming a higher up in masonry goes along the same lines. Those that are willing to take on the responsibilities and put in the extra effort can have the higher positions, irregardless of their leadership qualities, intelligence, or reputation amongst the members.



posted on Nov, 27 2006 @ 12:37 AM
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Hotpinkurinalmint that makes little sense. First - how would someone without authority be more influential than the man with authority? Is the Secretary of State more powerful than the President? No.

No one can have the Grand Master of the UGLE's "job" in 2 seconds - it's reserved for the highest ranking royalty in Masonry and though is an elected position the current Grand Master of the UGLE was first elected in 1967 and has been the Grand Master since.

Comparing clubs to a Fraternity that played a crucial role in the construction and maintainance of the British Empire seems like a poor comparison of duties and roles.

Freemasonry commands wealth beyond that of any other Fraternity and only rivaled by other significant institutions such as established or unestablished religions or governments. Indeed Freemasonry devotes more money to charity (Two Billion USD a day) than most countries produce yearly in their GDPs.

So in short - I denounce your argument that this most powerful man in Freemasonry is just someone who wants the job. He commands real authority and that issue must be addressed for the Conspiracy theories of "hidden higher ranks" to stand.



posted on Nov, 27 2006 @ 09:09 AM
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One could certainly put an argument together to show that the Duke is more of a figurehead/patron and the real leadership is provided by the Pro Grand Master, the Marquess of Northampton.


However, I have to disappoint the global conspiracists here. Whilst the UGLE is a well respected Grand Lodge, arguably the oldest and certainly historically influential, it has no jurisdiction over any other Grand Lodge as they are all completely autonomous. It provides a lead in some matters but it is always up to each individual grand lodge to govern themselves.


Theoretically each Grand Lodge is its own autonomous entity and thus the Grand Master in his Jurisdiction is supreme. This holds about as much water as the nuts in the Grand Lodge of the Orient.

This may be the case in the US where state Grand Lodges work closely together, but as a general principle I would have to disagree. Independence is the essence of a grand lodge and if it can't make it's own decisions then it isn't a grand lodge. The fact that so many grand lodges can effectively co-ordinate is a testament to the hard work and ongoing commitment to masonic principles of the grand lodges concerned.

[edit on 11/27/06 by Trinityman]



posted on Nov, 27 2006 @ 09:24 AM
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Originally posted by Trinityman
Whilst the UGLE is a well respected Grand Lodge, arguably the oldest and certainly historically influential, it has no jurisdiction over any other Grand Lodge as they are all completely autonomous.

Can you elaborate on this a bit more Trinityman ??

Why are some Lodges regulars, and others irregular? Isn’t that a power held by the UGLE? (making it more powerful)

PS- I was afraid when I clicked on this thread that I would find a picture of the infamous Black Pope.
(I’m glad there isn't, lol)


[edit on 27/11/06 by ConspiracyNut23]



posted on Nov, 27 2006 @ 10:03 AM
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Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23

Originally posted by Trinityman
Whilst the UGLE is a well respected Grand Lodge, arguably the oldest and certainly historically influential, it has no jurisdiction over any other Grand Lodge as they are all completely autonomous.

Can you elaborate on this a bit more Trinityman ??

Why are some Lodges regulars, and others irregular? Isn’t that a power held by the UGLE? (making it more powerful)

UGLE, together with the Grand Lodges of Scotland and Ireland (together often referred to as the Mother Grand Lodges) work to a set of guidelines which define what is and what isn't Freemasonry; and what is and what isn't a Grand Lodge (you can download them here, under Craft Rules, on page x). Anything that doesn't fit the definition of freemasonry as defined by these guidelines, but is imitative, is known as irregular freemasonry. Irregular freemasonry could deviate just slightly, or hugely, but if it isn't practicing under these guidelines then it technically isn't freemasonry.

The majority of Grand Lodges around the world developed out of, or were founded by, one of the Mother Grand Lodges, and that is why practices among them are similar, and why many Grand Lodges look to them (and UGLE as the oldest and largest) for a lead in such matters. If the practices of a Grand Lodge change often (but not always) other GLs will look to see what the UGLE will do before deciding. Incidentally to a lesser degree the GL of Massachusetts has this role among the US Grand Lodges as the oldest one.

Regular Grand Lodges do seek to find a consensus, otherwise there would be chaos, and due to the large number of imitative organizations regular freemasonry believes standards need to be set and a line has to be drawn somewhere.

It's a complex matter and many freemasons find it frustrating as minor differences in procedure can lead to irregularity. However the alternative is to recognize (i.e. make regular) any organization who claims to be masonic and most are agreed this would not be a sensible path to take.



posted on Nov, 27 2006 @ 11:24 AM
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Read this here about some of the mason you have pictured.

burningtaper.blogspot.com...
It's down a little ways.

Mysterious deaths, forbidden treasure and UGLE's Pro-Grand Master
You've seen National Treasure, the fictional movie that says the Freemasons collected vast treasures to protect them for the people of the world.

There's a real-life version of National Treasure playing out in London, with side stories from China, Italy and Hungary. Even Croatia and Lebanon get bit parts in this power play. Only in this story, the Freemason is looking out not for the people of the world, but apparently for himself.

And at the center of the story is the Marquess of Northampton, Spencer "Spenny" Douglas David Compton. The Marquess is said to be the world's richest Buddhist. He is now married to his fifth wife, having sired semi-royal children with three of his wives.

And he is the Pro-Grand Master of the United Grand Lodge of England. The Pro-Grand Master deputizes for the Grand Master, who is currently Prince Edward, the Duke of Kent, the Queen's cousin.

The Marquess collects treasure — in this case the 2500-year-old Sevso Hoard. It comprises 14 or more items of silver and represents probably the most important collection of Roman silver ever found. It's also stolen property, and no musuem in the world will touch it. Until now.

The Hoard was originally discovered in 1978 by Jozsef Sumegh, a 22-year-old Hungarian, who hit a copper vessel containing the silver pieces with his shovel while doing excavation. Sumegh sold a few pieces on the black market, and soon found himself dead, swinging from a rope in an unused wine cellar. Two of his close friends were murdered, too.

Hungary, Lebanon and Croatia have all sued unsuccessfully for return of their "national treasure."

Through unnamed sources, the Marquess eventually paid nearly £14 million for the silver pieces. Saying he got bad legal advice over buying the silver — it's both priceless and worthless, as no one will buy it — he sued his lawyers, and received a £24 million out of court settlement.

Prince Edward George Nicholas Paul Patrick
I will try to find out some info. On him. He was under investigation for something involving Princess Diana. But it might be just speculation and all.



posted on Nov, 27 2006 @ 12:02 PM
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Andy what was the point of your post?

There is so much "buried treasure" in Hungary and Romania and Bulgaria that hitting the "jackpot" takes little to no effort and they kill each other over it crazily. So there's no mystery there...quite simply the Marquess could have thought he really was buying some basic immitation silver...how would he ever really know the difference? That's how those black markets work.

He was probably pleased to be sued - it increased the worth of his silver.

As for who holds the string it's the Grand Master not the Pro - though he may govern in his stead. The Grand may still revoke him.



posted on Nov, 27 2006 @ 12:35 PM
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Sorry thought I would give my two cents. Next time you start a post I will just keep my nose out of it. Sorry to make you mad.

[edit on 27-11-2006 by Andy Warhol]

[edit on 27-11-2006 by Andy Warhol]

[edit on 27-11-2006 by Andy Warhol]



posted on Nov, 27 2006 @ 07:31 PM
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Originally posted by Andy Warhol
Sorry thought I would give my two cents. Next time you start a post I will just keep my nose out of it. Sorry to make you mad.

[edit on 27-11-2006 by Andy Warhol]

[edit on 27-11-2006 by Andy Warhol]

[edit on 27-11-2006 by Andy Warhol]


Haha no I just really want context. You can't just imply something but really the truth is much more ellaborate - that's the bull# Michael Moore does.

My points are valid, there's no way of telling what connection to the "black market" the Pro Grand Master has, for all he knew he was really just buying a fancy but more contemporary silver set going for say a few thousand british pounds (worth a lot in Hungary or anywhere in Eastern Europe).

Maybe he really was dealing with a black market for treasured items.

The context is important because in the end - the argument has to stand...and I immediately saw a lack of argument.

I don't see any indecency by the evidence given of this Pro Grand Master.



posted on Nov, 28 2006 @ 03:50 PM
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Originally posted by Stratrf_Rus


So if there is one man with more authority than all the rest in all of Freemasonry that man is the Grand Master of Masons in England.

Currently HRH The Duke of Kent.

This man can't make or unmake Masons outside his jurisdiction but he could see to it that a Grand Lodge be unrecognized should it break from the traditions of the Fraternity (such as what happend to the Grand Lodge of the Orient).


That would hold true only for England. After all, a US Grand Lodge could also drop the United Grand Lodge of England's recognition.


Were that 33rd Degree Scottish Rite Masons in the US to be behind some uber satanic conspiracy it would take little dilliberation with his officers to disassociate United States Free Masonry from the rest of the world.



This would not be the case. No other Grand Lodge in the world has to do what the English Grand lodge does. For example, the United Grand Lodge of England recognizes some Grand Lodges that mine does not, and vice versa. Also, it should be pointed out that, in England, the office of Grand Master is mostly honorary, with the actual authority being placed with the Provincial Grand Master. The Duke of Kent's authority is not complete, even within his own Grand Lodge.



posted on Nov, 28 2006 @ 03:52 PM
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Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23


Why are some Lodges regulars, and others irregular? Isn’t that a power held by the UGLE? (making it more powerful)


No. regularity is determined by tradition and custom. The UGLE, like any other regular Grand Lodge in the world, could start doing something that would cause all other regular Grand Lodges to withdraw recognition from them.

Each Grand Lodge sets its own requirements for regularity, and has the authority to grant or revoke it.



posted on Nov, 28 2006 @ 07:52 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by Stratrf_Rus


So if there is one man with more authority than all the rest in all of Freemasonry that man is the Grand Master of Masons in England.

Currently HRH The Duke of Kent.

This man can't make or unmake Masons outside his jurisdiction but he could see to it that a Grand Lodge be unrecognized should it break from the traditions of the Fraternity (such as what happend to the Grand Lodge of the Orient).


That would hold true only for England. After all, a US Grand Lodge could also drop the United Grand Lodge of England's recognition.


Were that 33rd Degree Scottish Rite Masons in the US to be behind some uber satanic conspiracy it would take little dilliberation with his officers to disassociate United States Free Masonry from the rest of the world.



This would not be the case. No other Grand Lodge in the world has to do what the English Grand lodge does. For example, the United Grand Lodge of England recognizes some Grand Lodges that mine does not, and vice versa. Also, it should be pointed out that, in England, the office of Grand Master is mostly honorary, with the actual authority being placed with the Provincial Grand Master. The Duke of Kent's authority is not complete, even within his own Grand Lodge.


My point is that traditionally lodges seek recognition from the UGLE not from any United States or other lodges.

True a lodge wouldn't have to have recognition from the UGLE - but that is where the most figurative authority derives and so more likely a Grand Lodge would rather do what is necessary to be regular under the UGLE than under say...the Grand Lodge of Massachussetts.

This is clearly evidenced in numerous cases including Russian Freemasonry, German Masonry and Prince Hall Masonry.



posted on Nov, 28 2006 @ 08:41 PM
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Originally posted by Stratrf_Rus
Andy what was the point of your post?

There is so much "buried treasure" in Hungary and Romania and Bulgaria that hitting the "jackpot" takes little to no effort and they kill each other over it crazily. So there's no mystery there...quite simply the Marquess could have thought he really was buying some basic immitation silver...how would he ever really know the difference? That's how those black markets work.

He was probably pleased to be sued - it increased the worth of his silver.

As for who holds the string it's the Grand Master not the Pro - though he may govern in his stead. The Grand may still revoke him.


You seem to be hostile to other posters when they do not.. go with what you want.. or do not.. "make sense?" - Don't have to be so mean ya know??

Are you a freemason? I have never heard that the Duke of Kent had any influence what so ever over any other grand lodge.



posted on Nov, 29 2006 @ 10:03 AM
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Originally posted by Stratrf_Rus


True a lodge wouldn't have to have recognition from the UGLE - but that is where the most figurative authority derives and so more likely a Grand Lodge would rather do what is necessary to be regular under the UGLE than under say...the Grand Lodge of Massachussetts.


Why? The Grand Lodge of Massachusetts can grant regulaity, and charter a foreign Grand Lodge, just as easily as the UGLE. In fact, the Grand Lodge of Massachusetts is even older than the UGLE.



posted on Nov, 30 2006 @ 06:41 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by Stratrf_Rus


True a lodge wouldn't have to have recognition from the UGLE - but that is where the most figurative authority derives and so more likely a Grand Lodge would rather do what is necessary to be regular under the UGLE than under say...the Grand Lodge of Massachussetts.


Why? The Grand Lodge of Massachusetts can grant regulaity, and charter a foreign Grand Lodge, just as easily as the UGLE. In fact, the Grand Lodge of Massachusetts is even older than the UGLE.


The Grand Lodge of Massachusetts received its charter from the UGLE in its parental form (before the schism was closed) ... actually I'm not sure on the fine points of history here the Grand Lodge of Massachusetts may have been one of the few lodges sponsored by the "Antient" lodges but either way - that schism was closed with the formation of the UGLE.

The parental lodges before that Union were the ones fostering the thirteen colonial lodges and such.

Yes it's possible for Massachusetts to grant charter for a foreign Grand Lodge, but if the UGLE wanted to revoke its recognition of Massachusettes for sponsoring a lodge that is irregular then Massachusetts will listen.

As I said, figuritive power rests with the UGLE, lodges want its recognition more than any others'.

That is why the standards for the Book of Constitutions is determined by the UGLE and the Grand Lodge of Ireland and also of Scotland.

There's a relative amount of respect of authority between those lodges but everyone expects to be recognized by the UGLE.



posted on Nov, 30 2006 @ 08:31 PM
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Originally posted by Stratrf_Rus



True a lodge wouldn't have to have recognition from the UGLE - but that is where the most figurative authority derives and so more likely a Grand Lodge would rather do what is necessary to be regular under the UGLE than under say...the Grand Lodge of Massachussetts.


But using your example, if the Grand Lodge of Massachusetts granted recognition to a foreign Grand Lodge, more than likely the other US Grand Lodges would follow suit, as would the UGLE. The same thing could be said of practically all regular Grand Lodges. US Grand Lodges are more populous than the UK ones, so it would not be surprising that a foreign Grand Lodge would seek out a US one (as has often been done).



The Grand Lodge of Massachusetts received its charter from the UGLE in its parental form (before the schism was closed) ... actually I'm not sure on the fine points of history here the Grand Lodge of Massachusetts may have been one of the few lodges sponsored by the "Antient" lodges but either way - that schism was closed with the formation of the UGLE.

The parental lodges before that Union were the ones fostering the thirteen colonial lodges and such.


That's correct, and I agree. If I'm not mistaken, they were chartered by the Moderns, before the UGLE came into existence. My own Grand Lodge is a result of a merger between the Antients and Moderns.


Yes it's possible for Massachusetts to grant charter for a foreign Grand Lodge, but if the UGLE wanted to revoke its recognition of Massachusettes for sponsoring a lodge that is irregular then Massachusetts will listen.


It would depend upon the circumstances. If the UGLE were in the wrong, then Massachusetts' sister US Grand Lodges could revoke recognition of the UGLE. The various Grand Lodges would have ascertain if anyone was in violation of the Landmarks. In fact, a similar situation occured here a few years ago concerning the Grand Lodge of Minnesota's recognizing the Grand Lodge of France (along with the National Grand Lodge of France, a separate body).


As I said, figuritive power rests with the UGLE, lodges want its recognition more than any others'.


I haven't seen any such statistics. Indeed, over the past 5 decades, it seems the majority of new foreign Grand Lodges broke into regularity via one or another of the US Grand Lodges.


That is why the standards for the Book of Constitutions is determined by the UGLE and the Grand Lodge of Ireland and also of Scotland.


The UGLE does not determine any such standards for any Grand Lodge but itself. Like all regular Grand Lodges, the Constitution of the UGLE is influenced by ancient custom. And like all other regular Grand Lodges, if the UGLE began to stray from them, they would lose both their recognition and their regularity.


There's a relative amount of respect of authority between those lodges but everyone expects to be recognized by the UGLE.


About half the Masons in Europe seek recognition from the Grand Orient of France, and don't give a flip about the UGLE. As long as the UGLE remains true to the ancient customs and usages of the Craft, we elsewhere are happy to remain in fraternal recognition with them. But the UGLE is not the Premiere Grand Lodge; it was partially a creation of it, as are all the Grand Lodges in the US.



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