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Killing for God or Country

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posted on Nov, 26 2006 @ 11:32 AM
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A simple question:

If God doesn't want you to kill for him would he approve of you killing for your country?




posted on Nov, 26 2006 @ 12:15 PM
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Only if it were for good. For example, like if your country got invaded by the Nazis.



posted on Nov, 26 2006 @ 12:23 PM
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I would think that it would be disapproved regardless of the reason "Thou shalt not kill" and all.



posted on Nov, 26 2006 @ 12:33 PM
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One of the Ten Commandents is "Thou Shalt Not Kill".

Should we interpret this commandment literally? Or should we change it to suit our needs?

Does God "see" us all as different countries or does he see all humankind equally without the borders of countries between us?

Sorry to answer your post with more questions, but I think these are relevant also to whether God "approves or disapproves" of killing for your country.

Personally I would'nt kill anybody except in self-defense of myself or my children.

The "kllling for your own country" is supposed to be self-defense of your homeland which is also the same as self-defense of your family and friends who are citizens.

But the government screws things up sometimes and uses "war" for something other than "self-defense" at times.



posted on Nov, 26 2006 @ 12:42 PM
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No he wouldn't approve it in my opinion. the only time I think he would approve of killing is to directly stop some act of genocide or terrorism.



posted on Nov, 26 2006 @ 02:48 PM
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Because I am a Christian and believe we have a new covenant (agreement) with God through the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ can anyone provide any Bible verses in the New Testament that would support either side of the argument?



posted on Nov, 26 2006 @ 04:13 PM
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Originally posted by kinglizard


A simple question:

If God doesn't want you to kill for him would he approve of you killing for your country?


let me rephrase that to make my statements more clear.

If God doesn't want you to kill for him would he approve of you killing for your country?

If humanity doesn't want you to kill for it would it approve of you killing for your country?

umm no.. pretty sure humanity doesn't like it when individuals go around killing humanity.. seems kinda like divided against itself huh?

[2:8] If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture,
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: [2:9]
But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are
convinced of the law as transgressors. [2:10] For
whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one
[point,] he is guilty of all. [2:11] For he that said, Do not
commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit
no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor
of the law. [2:12] So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall
be judged by the law of liberty. [2:13]

[3:4] And such trust have we through Christ to Godward:
[3:5] Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think
any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency [is] of God;
[3:6] Who also hath made us able ministers of the new
testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter
killeth, but the spirit giveth life. [3:7] But if the
ministration of death, written [and] engraven in stones, was
glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly
behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance;
which [glory] was to be done away: [3:8] How shall not the
ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? [3:9] For if the
ministration of condemnation [be] glory, much more doth
the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. [3:10]
For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this
respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. [3:11] For if
that which is done away [was] glorious, much more that
which remaineth [is] glorious. [3:12] Seeing then that we
have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: [3:13]
And not as Moses, [which] put a vail over his face, that the
children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that
which is abolished: [3:14] But their minds were blinded:
for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in
the reading of the old testament; which [vail] is done away
in Christ. [3:15] But even unto this day, when Moses is
read, the vail is upon their heart. [3:16] Nevertheless when
it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. [3:17]
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord
[is,] there [is] liberty. [3:18] But we all, with open face
beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed
into the same image from glory to glory, [even] as by the
Spirit of the Lord.

[16:1] These things have I spoken unto you, that ye
should not be offended. [16:2] They shall put you out of
the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever
killeth you will think that he doeth God service. [16:3] And
these things will they do unto you, because they have not
known the Father, nor me. [16:4] But these things have I
told you, that when the time shall come, ye may remember
that I told you of them. And these things I said not unto you
at the beginning, because I was with you. [16:5] But now I
go my way to him that sent me; and none of you asketh me,
Whither goest thou? [16:6]

[10:7] Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily,
verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. [10:8]
All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but
the sheep did not hear them. [10:9] I am the door: by me if
any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out,
and find pasture. [10:10] The thief cometh not, but for to
steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might
have life, and that they might have [it] more abundantly.
[10:11] I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth

[7:25] Then said some of
them of Jerusalem, Is not this he, whom they seek to kill?
[7:26] But, lo, he speaketh boldly, and they say nothing
unto him. Do the rulers know indeed that this is the very
Christ? [7:27] Howbeit we know this man whence he is:
but when Christ cometh, no man knoweth whence he is.

[8:33] They answered him, We be Abraham’s seed, and
were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye
shall be made free? [8:34] Jesus answered them, Verily,
verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the
servant of sin. [8:35] And the servant abideth not in the
house for ever: [but] the Son abideth ever. [8:36] If the Son
therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
[8:37] I know that ye are Abraham’s seed; but ye seek to
kill me, because my word hath no place in you. [8:38] I
speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that
which ye have seen with your father. [8:39]

[edit on 11/26/2006 by PuRe EnErGy]



posted on Nov, 26 2006 @ 05:12 PM
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Originally posted by apex
No he wouldn't approve it in my opinion. the only time I think he would approve of killing is to directly stop some act of genocide or terrorism.


Like the Nazis



posted on Nov, 26 2006 @ 08:22 PM
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Originally posted by wildcat

Originally posted by apex
No he wouldn't approve it in my opinion. the only time I think he would approve of killing is to directly stop some act of genocide or terrorism.


Like the Nazis


Maybe the Nazis were killing in order to stop the terrorism in the middle east?
Before it got started?



who knows?
God knows....

ask HIM
ask yourself



posted on Nov, 26 2006 @ 09:26 PM
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Without the holocaust, there would be no modern state of Israel.

Thats not to say the sacrifice was neccessary, most certainly not, but the strange thing about religon is that its always surrounded with violence and persecution of others. sect vs sect, religon vs religon, differing opinions which lead to bullets and bombs.

You know, I used to think New Babylon was New York City, Washington DC, or the USA altogether. I thought Israel was the country that it says to goto when you need to 'come out of her', new babylon ie: the usa. Talking revelation of john here.

But lately, for some strange reason, thoughts having been coming to me suggesting for some odd and strange reason that the USA is actually the true promised land. So much evil happens here, yet .. those of faith can live in peace as neighbors without bloodshed, like in the "holy land". Theres so much for everything here in this country.

Today, only 10% of the ethnic Jews in Israel are truly Semitic(SHEM-itic). The other 90% are Eastern European Ashkenazi Jews which migrated to Israel after the Holocaust. Ashkenaz was a son of Japheth, the elder son of Noah, the middle son was Shem and the youngest was Ham. Thus it can be said that ethnicly and technicly, the Jews of religion and of Ashkenazi origin living in Israel now(90% of the population) are actually mostly descendants of a caucasian, japhethic origin.

I only wonder why if all the sons of Japheth started their tribes' migrations through the Caucasus Mts and westward along the Black Sea coast, eventually arriving in Eastern Europe, only the Ashkenazi kept the monotheistic religon of his father's god, YHWH? The rest went to paganism .. to this biblical theory which is not scientificly proven in anyway.

[edit on 11/26/2006 by runetang]



posted on Nov, 26 2006 @ 10:48 PM
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Originally posted by runetang
Without the holocaust, there would be no modern state of Israel.


But, truly, what has THAT gained? Besides more of the same? And even worse, IMO?

Suicide bombings and such is horrid! It won't end until they realize and remember that Isaac and Ishmael WERE AND ARE brothers.
Just like Jacob and Esau!

All the Arab nations are fathered from Abraham....the whole world is family
ALL ARE BROTHERS!

Think about that.

If we truly understand that we are all FAMILY...just one FAMILY...ALL brothers..
then what the hell are we fighting for? HELL on EARTH?

That's what we've got, generally! Why are we fighting to keep HELL?


Thats not to say the sacrifice was neccessary, most certainly not, but the strange thing about religon is that its always surrounded with violence and persecution of others. sect vs sect, religon vs religon, differing opinions which lead to bullets and bombs.


Then why not make the whole world Israel, or rather IS REAL....without boundaries and barbed wire and guards and flags and treaties and pacts and wmd?

Why don't we?



You know, I used to think New Babylon was New York City, Washington DC, or the USA altogether. I thought Israel was the country that it says to goto when you need to 'come out of her', new babylon ie: the usa. Talking revelation of john here.

IT WAS
IT IS

Look at Revelation 11:11....
the 'twin' towers...
two legs - just like the legs of a whore...with her head stuck in the ground!

neither time did we see 'em coming. MAN or PLANE or GOD.

We are too busy looking out for SELF and no one is looking out for eachother

PERHAPS we need a 'big brother' to show us the way to look after eachother?
Perhaps we got one....and we killed him....twice!

Perhaps we should build only WATCH towers....but if there are no boundaries, we really only need LIGHT HOUSES.


But lately, for some strange reason, thoughts having been coming to me suggesting for some odd and strange reason that the USA is actually the true promised land.

If we can manage to discard our fear and embrace courage and
BE AN example
of UNITY

OF UNITY

to the whole world - not excluding the world but inviting them in!
Then YES we will fulfill the promise first in this land and then it will spread like wildfire!

And truly WE WILL.
I say that because I, personally, WILL it so.
ALL it takes is one....the rest will follow.

rebel [mirror] leder

follow the leader
follow the rebel
dare to be different
because only by trying something ELSE
SOMETHING
completely NEW
can we change our 7000 year old habit of war and bloodshed trying to gain peace

the whore of babylon is a whore because she loves LIBERALLY
and without ever shutting even one 'JOHN' out!

and she takes her rewards along with the slings and rocks and all that
and continues to open her legs without reservation

What did we do when the towers fell?

WE CLOSED UP
IN FEAR

to continue in that manner is
DOUBLE SUICIDE

Hitler's ideas ( the nazi ideal) was not at all wrong...it was beautiful, in fact.

The methods were what didn't work....outside of the boundaries of Germany, that is....read up on Germany within...during the first half of his time in charge.
(which was 3 1/2 years since his rule 7 years and around 2 or 3 months more -- RING A BELL?)

The goals were UNITY and just reward for labor - a reason to be rightfully proud to work with your hands to earn an honest and fair day's wages...no one hungry and no one left out of anything the rest had...
NOT communism...but UNITY.

A right to be proud of and to enjoy one's labors....to be secure and peaceful enough to be truly fruitful in multiplication (the world is definitely multiplied in population, but is it GOOD FRUIT?)

It's not socialism that was bad....it was the limited scope that it manifested within....
perhaps we DO NEED a ONE WORLD government.

Divide and conquer...but without divisions there is no war and no need to conquer.


So much evil happens here, yet .. those of faith can live in peace as neighbors without bloodshed, like in the "holy land". Theres so much for everything here in this country.


Then ALL land is holy!


The rest went to paganism .. to this biblical theory which is not scientificly proven in anyway.


What is paganism when you take the fleshly stuff away? Worship of God. or gods

God has many sides and many angels..countless ones, actually...
BUT at the core, regardless of culture or praxis or anything tangible

GOD is ONE
if there IS a God
then there is ONLY ONE
and therefore the CREATOR of ALL
and so regardless of how we approach
if we approach we are going to arrive in the very same place as everyone else!



posted on Nov, 28 2006 @ 10:33 AM
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[Quote]One of the Ten Commandents is \"Thou Shalt Not Kill\". [/Quote]
as I recall before james and friends butchered the writings this read \" Thou Shalt not Murder.\"


[Quote]Maybe the Nazis were killing in order to stop the terrorism in the middle east?
Before it got started?[/Quote]

Not likely as the hostilities between these two groups of \" Children of the Book\"
go back at least to the reign of Charlemaigne if not before.



posted on Nov, 28 2006 @ 01:12 PM
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Originally posted by The Dark Lord
Not likely as the hostilities between these two groups of \" Children of the Book\"
go back at least to the reign of Charlemaigne if not before.


All things go back to Cain killing Abel. Things of war, that is.

The 'love' things go back to the garden of Neden...I mean 'Eden.'



posted on Nov, 29 2006 @ 12:25 AM
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Originally posted by kinglizard
If God doesn't want you to kill for him would he approve of you killing for your country?


Being an Atheist makes this an ease question to answer. I would never fight in the name of a higher power. I would however fight to preserve the freedom I enjoy.

Lest we forgot those who fallen before us so we can enjoy freedom today.



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