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N.Y. police kill groom near strip club

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posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 07:48 PM
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An undercover job takes a turn for the worst at a New York strip club. Several men in a car leaving a strip club, hit an undercover police officer and a parked undercover vehicle. Police then opened fire on the car full of men, killing a groom.
 



news.yahoo.com
NEW YORK - Police opened fire early Saturday on a car full of men driving away from a bachelor party at a strip club, killing the groom on his wedding day after an undercover officer was rammed with the car.


Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly said it was too early to say whether the shooting was justified. At least three officers were injured, he said.

The deadly incident stemmed from an undercover operation inside the club, Kelly said.


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


What was the undercover operation about? Without more details to the story, it is difficult to say whether or not this is another case of excessive force or an unjustified shooting. Where the men leaving the scene the actual people being investigated?

What was the reasoning behind the men "fleeing the scene in such a hurry"?

[edit on 11/25/2006 by Infoholic]




posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 08:23 PM
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Why was a married man leaving a strip club on his wedding night?



posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 08:26 PM
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Why was a "almost married" man leaving a strip club on his wedding night?


It's tradition to do that, I'm gay but I still tag along for the festivities!


I had heard about this, but didn't feel it was worth making a news article, no offense to the OP, can you explain what the conspiracy angle is to this?



posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 08:29 PM
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NEW YORK - Police opened fire early Saturday on a car full of men driving away from a bachelor party at a strip club, killing the groom on his wedding day after an undercover officer was rammed with the car.killing the groom on his wedding day

Generaly one would have their bachelor party prior to their wedding day. But the wedding day is kinda too late to be having a bachelor party.



posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 08:31 PM
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"Strip" clubs are known "hot-spots" for illegal narcotics transfers. The undercover operation probably stemmed from such reported activities.
As to what caused the suspects to flee or the Officers in question to confront them- that lies in the realm of pure speculation. The information provided is far to limited to provide any valid interpretation.
I sincerely hope that this was not posted as more fodder for the anti-police agenda to make after-the-fact judgements upon cops.



posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 08:34 PM
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Isn't anything after 12am the day of his wedding day?


This is where cultural differences set into place, I am in New Orleans, our bars never close, so effectively, one day bleeds (forgive the pun) into another. Is it really a big deal if someone left a bar after midnight and it was the same day as the wedding?



posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 08:35 PM
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Well, first, read the article. The car full of guys getting shot at, from what I can tell, were scared people fleeing a scene (yes), but were any of them at fault for what was being investigated at the club?


He said the establishment has a "chronic history of narcotics, prostitution and weapons complaints."
source

I would buy that to be excessive force... filling the car full of lead to stop them? Would tire spike work better?


Police thought one of the men in the car might have had a gun. But armed with a search warrant, police found no weapons.

Kelly said the incident stemmed from an undercover operation inside the strip club. Seven officers in plain clothes were investigating the Kalua Cabaret, and five were involved in the shooting. The gunfire also hit nearby homes and a train station, though no residents were injured.

Three officers, including the undercover hit by the car, were treated and released. Another detective remained hospitalized for hypertension, Kelly said.


I also believe it to be said in the article that the police that were "hit" by the vehicle were not seriously injured.



posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 08:35 PM
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He said the establishment has a "chronic history of narcotics, prostitution and weapons complaints."


I think that explains most of this. These guys were probably hopped up, partying hard at this bachelor party the night before the wedding. They hit one cop with their car and crashed another, and apparently did something to make the cops think that they had a gun.


"We're not anti-police ... we're anti-police brutality," [Sharpton] said.

? How about being anti excessive boozing and whoring and mowing down people with cars???

He said his cousin wasn't the type to confront police and that he was "on the straight and narrow."

Partying all night at a strip club where there's lots of prostitution and drugs aint' the 'straight and narrow'.



posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 08:36 PM
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Perhaps the reason that It was his wedding day is because it was already pass midnight and that day sometime he was to take the wedding vows.



posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 09:09 PM
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Originally posted by Infoholic
The car full of guys getting shot at, from what I can tell, were scared people fleeing a scene (yes), but were any of them at fault for what was being investigated at the club?

Its not that they were fleeing the scene. After hitting one cop with their car, and then ramming twice into a cop van, one of the guys in the car jumps out and runs away. Thats who fled the scene.


I would buy that to be excessive force... filling the car full of lead to stop them? Would tire spike work better?

They were being charged by the car.


I also believe it to be said in the article that the police that were "hit" by the vehicle were not seriously injured.

Why put hit in quotes? They hit him with their car. Then they slammed into a cop van. Then they pulled back, hit a gate apparently, and then slammed back into the van. Then the cops started shooting.



posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 09:19 PM
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The only conspiracy so far that I see is whether or not the man was really on his wedding day or on the night prior. A sign that this is not a significant story.


Strip clubs are a big spot for investigation actually, why ask what undercovers where doing there? The fact that he was probably doing something stupid that he shouldn't have been, either intentionally ramed or accidently ramed, frightening officers into taking actions. And yes, raming a police car is justification to open fire.

And nite-boy.. tradition? Had I gone to a strip club on my wedding day my fiance woulda saved the police the trouble and killed me her self.



posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 09:19 PM
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Not to defend the firing of 50 rounds, but I think people need to take a step back and understand what went on.

Firstly, spike strips are used for high speed chases, take quite a while to set up and are not used for people heading at you in close proximity. That would result in EVERYONE dying.

Secondly, when a vehicle has already smacked into a cop car and is fleeing the scene directly towards you, that can startle you.

Again I don't think that there was really much of a need to fire 50 shots, but to be perfectly honest, people are being unfair and ridiculously ignorant in their assessment of the situation.

As for why undercover cops are staking out a strip club... perhaps because they're run by the Russian mob, are notorious for being fronts for massive exporting of ecstacy and coc aine, and have a habit of taking in young girls, exploiting them, beating them and turning them into drug mules. Does that meet the approval of why they're being watched?

[edit on 11-25-2006 by Djarums]



posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 09:20 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
Why put hit in quotes? They hit him with their car. Then they slammed into a cop van. Then they pulled back, hit a gate apparently, and then slammed back into the van. Then the cops started shooting.


In the original article posted by yahoo news, the term they used was hit. As you can see now, the term has been changed to "rammed".

Also in the original article posted by yahoo news, it stated that the cops were not seriously injured, with no further mention of their condition. (fine and dandy) The revised article states...

Three officers, including the undercover hit by the car, were treated and released. Another detective remained hospitalized for hypertension, Kelly said.


I don't know about anyone else, but to me, "rammed" and "hit" gives two different pictures in my mind.


apc

posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 09:22 PM
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I don't think drunk or hopped up on goofballs really explains it. Mafia fits, though.



posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 09:32 PM
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I hope I haven't gotten anyone confused about the article, as I have become... after looking back and reading my original post on here, and the revised post... they both differ from the article posted on yahoo before sent as a submission.

The original yahoo news clip was about 3 paragraphs long in entirety. Maybe that's where I got lost.


Anyrate, as questioned... where's the conspiracy?

Abuse of power/police brutality? I don't think the police should have taken the steps as far as to fill the car full of bullet holes... for crying out loud, they haven't even made the case as to why they were in pursuit of the guys in question. Yah, they had warrants to search for weapons, but found none... they thought there was an altercation that was going to involve weapons... but found none.

I think the cops scared the group leaving and the whole situation got out of hand.



posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 09:52 PM
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Sadly - many people here have no idea what actually goes on inside strip clubs. The same attitude is used by people trying to shut the clubs down when they have actually never even been in a club, strip or otherwise. Don't believe me, go to any of the nicer clubs and report back. You will come back with a different view, especially if you spend any time talking to the girls that work there....

Far worse, in terms of sex and drugs, is going on right now in "normal" bars and clubs. By a wide margin....

Trust me - I know, my club tab (50/50 spilt between normal and strip) is already well over 75K this year and that's on legal things....

As to the crime - toss up. Cops tend to overreact and let the lead fly at the slightest provocation. Tis good nothing was found in the car - they should have a decent case against the officers in terms of a wrongful death suit. The cops will likely not face any criminal charges though....



posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 10:36 PM
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Im guessing the cops didnt mean to kill the guy they were trying to shoot out the tires so they couldn't get away cause if they where shooting at the people 50 shots would kill them all.



posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 11:52 PM
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This driver ran over a person ... didn't stop ... hit a police van ... still didn't stop ... backed up and hit the police van again. Let's see that's 1 (maybe 2 felonies) and 2 misdemeanors. I'm guessing he was shot to prevent someone else from being run over as he continued to try to flee the scene. It sounds like this all went down within a few seconds. Even without there being the possibility of weapons in the vehicle they would be justified in shooting a driver who just ran down somoene and had 2 more accidents in an attempt to flee the scene of a felony.

It's easy to "monday morning quarterback" events like this with all the knowledge of who and what was in the vehicle. The police on the scene have no idea if this was an intentional act or just some way drunken driver who doesn't have the sense to STOP once he hits a human being.

I find it annoying that the Yahoo article ends with 2 paragraphs about prior cases of police brutality. Gotta love the media -- already drawing people to conclusions that these officers have done something wrong. What do those 2 cases have to do with this current shooting?



posted on Nov, 26 2006 @ 01:49 AM
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Originally posted by SmallMindsBigIdeas
This driver ran over a person ... didn't stop ... hit a police van ... still didn't stop ... backed up and hit the police van again. Let's see that's 1 (maybe 2 felonies) and 2 misdemeanors. I'm guessing he was shot to prevent someone else from being run over as he continued to try to flee the scene. It sounds like this all went down within a few seconds. Even without there being the possibility of weapons in the vehicle they would be justified in shooting a driver who just ran down somoene and had 2 more accidents in an attempt to flee the scene of a felony.

Now we have "hit", "rammed", and "run over".

They could have been simply rolling the vehicle away... and bumped the cop as he's telling them to stop, who knows. There could have been mass confusion, causing him to hit the parked cop's van, who knows. The guy that jumped out and dashed away, definitely he was at fault for fleeing a scene. I'm willing to bet the others were just scared... but that's just pure speculation.


Originally posted by SmallMindsBigIdeas
I find it annoying that the Yahoo article ends with 2 paragraphs about prior cases of police brutality. Gotta love the media -- already drawing people to conclusions that these officers have done something wrong. What do those 2 cases have to do with this current shooting?

I agree, it's crappy, however... it's still too close to call for whether or not the shooting was justified. The veteran cop... spending 2 clips into the car, in an attempt to blow a tire?... That's a bit excessive, IMO... hence... the brutality links.



posted on Nov, 26 2006 @ 04:58 AM
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I'm confused.

If the guys were already in the car, why did the police suspect that they were involved in whatever ever altercation was about to take place? They were leaving.

And, since when did a car accident become reason enough for the police to shoot up a car???

I think there's more to this story.



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