There is no heaven or god, only SATAN

Originally posted by D4rk Kn1ght
You come from Satan???


Errr then errr....ok what ever.


My avatar is a look at the darker side of life, yes, yours shows you where you come from...you come from Satan, so as a follower of Jesus and God the Lord Almighty, I have a good reason to hate you.

But this is where you are wrong in your assumptions. If you were indeed a true follower of "jesus and god the lord almighty" you would not hate. You would listen to the words of wisdom that preach love and forgiveness. You feel you are so high and mighty because you say you believe that the figure known as jesus is god, and yet you don't follow his words, so in this sense, you yourself are (according to your beliefs) defying god and following satan's will.

@ Unrealised

This world is what you choose to see it as. If you see humanity as divided, then forever it shall remain so; but if you choose to see the light that is within people, feel the love, and look forward to unity, then the world will start to change. The more you focus on something, the more power it has and the more prevalent it becomes. We can not be unified until we stop dividing each other as races etc. If you focus on darkness, it will rule your life, the same goes for light. Your life is your choice, you can make it whatever you want with enough focus and energy. This world is only disgusting and vile because we accept it as that, we say "Well, that's just how it is, people are awful." When we begin to see the world for what it truly can be, then we will make progress.

We spend too much time feeding the negative energies in our life.

As far as the satan thing goes, that will only work for christians. Satan is something that was created so people don't have to accept responsibility for their actions, people claiming that the devil made them do it. There is darkness and light within everybody, you choose which shall be dominant in your life. There is no figure called satan that is pulling puppet strings, just as there is no guy with a white beard sitting in the clouds watching us. That doesn't mean I'm an athiest, I believe in what people call god, but not in a way that is acceptable by the majority.

To me what is called god represents light and love, what is called satan represents darkness and fear. These are not physical beings, but rather energies, love and fear. People choose to create physicals beings for these forces, because it makes them feel more secure. If they have these physical beings, then they have to take no responsibility for their actions, the good is because of god and the evil is because of the devil. This makes life easier for most people, accepting responsibility for all of your actions is a tough thing to do, and equally tough is being able to forgive yourself as well as others.

It is so easy to hate someone, or hold a grudge against them. Forgiveness is the ultimate sacrifice because we are letting go of our self preserving nature, and putting others ahead of us. In forgiving we are showing that we love, that we do not fear, that we understand and accept that people are not perfect and do make mistakes. Forgiving people will do much more for this world than hate or fear ever could. When you forgive, you do good for both people, you allow the offender a second chance, and you instill love in them so that they may change. Sure it may take some more love and forgiving than others, but that is because some people have more fear in them.

Simply put, your reality is what you make it to be, so if you believe that there is a figure called satan that is pulling our strings, then that will be true for you and all who believe that.

Good luck on your travels.

Peace and love

Pancho

Well..Satan is an angel according to scripture. That scripture could be tainted by Satan but really, all the texts, all the tongues, all the versions, the non-christian old testament too, you could probably find something quite similar in Islam too.

He basicly lusted after power and everything else like humans do, except in heaven as an angel, and tried to upstage God. God created him, like all of us, and it was probably in his plan that Lucifer would turn on him. He probably knew maybe it was on purose. But he was thrown down to torment the Earth and test the righteous.

With no temptation there is no choice. We have freewill, and we have to CHOOSE God fundamentally on our own, so freewill is fundamental to monotheism. In order to have freewill, there has to be a temptation, or a wrong path. Someone has to create those paths, its Satan, and those paths are the tangles we find ourselves in when we do unsightly things before God. Sometimes when we are righteous we are still afflicted, but if we prevail then Satan's influence has been cast away for the time. This is the choice that has to be made, so Satan has to exist.

One could say its cruel of God to make an angel he knew was going turn on him and so forth, but perhaps it didnt happen like that. What if Lucifier really did 'trick' God, at least for that moment, when he tried to upstage him and then the rebellion. Satan wanted his power over man and the universe. God did not allow that, but he did see a convenient opportunity to test the son of men.

God is so powerful he can provoke Satan into action on his own account for any reason. God can do anything. But fearing him and believing in him and being faithful overtime becomes like a shield of the righteous to rid themselves of the temptations of Satan and to be simple, not vain, and not sinning. This is why the freewill is so fundamental. When you make a choice to go with God even though you cant see, smell, hear or touch him, when the temptations of Satan like addictive drugs, STDs, violence, theft, lies, disinformation, destruction of the world, hatred of man, murder and power, you are essentially making the same choice Yeshua ha Meshiach did when he fasted for 40 days and was tempted with all delights from Satan and did not accept them.

Satan is fundamental, but clearly he is eternally in submission to his creator, God, like us all, no matter how hard he or any of us try not to be.

Originally posted by Unrealised
I've thought this before, and I thought of it again last night, and so I'd like to share it.

Satan is supposed to be the trickster, the opposer of man, the slanderer and a down right liar.

Satan will do anything he can to grab the little Christians and make them his.


If I was satan, I could think of nothing funnier than making christians believe in a god and a heaven, only to CRUSH them at the end.

Imagine the look on a christians face when they go to a temporal fake heaven, only to have satan come along and say "by the way, there is no heaven or god. It's been me all along. Now you're mine. You always were, and you always wil be. I'm going to play with you forever. Next time you'll believe in god too, but you'll just end up here with me. Ha ha."

That would be the biggest lie of all, and I think Satan could pull it off.

Discuss.

[edit on 25-11-2006 by Unrealised]

Thank you, .. brilliant.. true..

no ONE GOD like there is ONE YOU, because GOD is humanity all together..
no allocated heaven or hell... it is in the noggin.

There is only the HUMAN body, that has THOUGHT stuck in it. and the only way to get out... is first recognizing the jail you're in..

Originally posted by Unrealised

Satan will do anything he can to grab the little Christians and make them his.


have satan come along and say "by the way, there is no heaven or god.

First, everyone who says they are a christian is not. Many claim to be a christian based on environment or country affiliation. A christian is one who has believed that Christ is the only way of salvation and forgiveness of their sin.

satan cannot grab a christian and make him/her unsaved. Once truly saved you cannot be snatched out of God's hand. satan does try to make a christian ineffective in their witness and cause them to be tempted and fall in a given area.

As far as satan saying hteir is no God or heaven, that is the lie he spreads now and most fall for it.

Originally posted by Unrealised
Tamahu, your posts and the corresponding links are very interesting.

The thing that used to stump me was when Jesus said he was the morning star, i.e- lucifer.

The extended understanding that you have given me access to is very helpful in that it further explains the spiritual forces at play, in that in a dualistic universe, where things are divided by the very nature of dualism, one will have to prevail over the other.

Dualism in itself forces both sides to 'combat' to whatever end necessary.

Now, moving on to a universe that seems dualistic is another story. A facade is only useful until you see what is behind it, and this is what I have gained by reading the things you offered me.

Once the facade is lifted we see that a very complex divine plan has been laid out for us to discover.

Nice.

But you see, all this theorizing becomes useless.

What are we going to do if die within the next few hours, and we still have innumerable seeds of causes of suffering sown that have not yet ripened?

What the symbolism of "Lucifer" and "Satan" are pointing to is something practical.

First we follow the basic moral discipline and we study, but we also need direct experience through meditation and action.

Lucifer is specifically related to a practice known as Alchemy, White Tantra, Dzogchen, Ati-Yoga-Tantra, and also Karma-Mudra.

Karma = Action

Mudra = Seal


This is what I was trying to show by posting that link earlier in this thread.





Regards

It is the difference between the The Heart Doctrine of Christ...

...And the Eye Doctrine of the intellectuals.

Sometimes we start with the Eye Doctrine; but it is very difficult to sacrifice our intellectual grasping for the sake of the Heart or Atom Nous.

Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by Unrealised

Satan will do anything he can to grab the little Christians and make them his.


have satan come along and say "by the way, there is no heaven or god.

First, everyone who says they are a christian is not. Many claim to be a christian based on environment or country affiliation. A christian is one who has believed that Christ is the only way of salvation and forgiveness of their sin.

satan cannot grab a christian and make him/her unsaved. Once truly saved you cannot be snatched out of God's hand. satan does try to make a christian ineffective in their witness and cause them to be tempted and fall in a given area.

As far as satan saying hteir is no God or heaven, that is the lie he spreads now and most fall for it.

Like you said, Satan tries to make them unable to reach salvation. Once saved though, it is impossible.

Mind you, once a person follows Jesus, Satan is said to attack even harder, hence what I said about satan even creating a temporary Heaven to try and fool the Christian into believing that he (satan) has been the creator all along.

As you said about most faling for the lie, i agree 100%.

Two points you made = 2 points I could have written with my own thoughts.

Nice.

[edit on 26-11-2006 by Unrealised]

Originally posted by Tamahu





What are we going to do if die within the next few hours, and we still have innumerable seeds of causes of suffering sown that have not yet ripened.



Regards

That was well said.

That makes sense to me.

Infact, it clears alot of things up.

Doubt is the killer of faith.

Unrealised, my deepest condolences for the very recent loss of your mother. She's in God's hands now. Is your conversion to Satanism a reaction to the loss? I believe your mother would want no part of you worshiping Satan.

Reconvert to God, and hopefully Christianity, as soon as possible, and your problems will be reduced.

Remember that goodness always triumphs over evil, an incontrovertible law through history and the future!!!

Originally posted by GreatTech
Unrealised, my deepest condolences for the very recent loss of your mother. She's in God's hands now. Is your conversion to Satanism a reaction to the loss? I believe your mother would want no part of you worshiping Satan.

Reconvert to God, and hopefully Christianity, as soon as possible, and your problems will be reduced.

Remember that goodness always triumphs over evil, an incontrovertible law through history and the future!!!

You have it backwards, unrealised was into the "dark arts" (i don't really know what to call it) in the past, but has now turned to god. I got this from the first page...

Originally posted by Unrealised

That was a really nice and positive post. I come from a Christian background, and when I was 21 or so I started dabbling with the other side.

Then my mother got sick with cancer so I turned away from the devil and the glory he makes you feel about yourself.

When mum died a few days ago, I knew that God was the way.

Peace,

Pancho

Originally posted by runetang
With no temptation there is no choice. We have freewill, and we have to CHOOSE God fundamentally on our own, so freewill is fundamental to monotheism. In order to have freewill, there has to be a temptation, or a wrong path. Someone has to create those paths, its Satan, and those paths are the tangles we find ourselves in when we do unsightly things before God. Sometimes when we are righteous we are still afflicted, but if we prevail then Satan's influence has been cast away for the time. This is the choice that has to be made, so Satan has to exist.

I have to actually take something i said here back which was incorrect. There doesnt have to be a wrong path for freewill to exist; in heaven or utopia you could have nothing but good paths, and no evil paths to tempt you. but if you are on this earth, where the Tempter dwelleth, it will become a decision of faith for the hereafter.

[edit on 11/26/2006 by runetang]

Originally posted by runetang


I have to actually take something i said here back which was incorrect. There doesnt have to be a wrong path for freewill to exist; in heaven or utopia you could have nothing but good paths, and no evil paths to tempt you. but if you are on this earth, where the Tempter dwelleth, it will become a decision of faith for the hereafter.

[edit on 11/26/2006 by runetang]

As in the case of Adam and Eve, is there a force that can 'suck us' back out of heaven?

With minds like children, we could be vulnerable.

Even though it says that the opposing force will be destroyed, could it possibly grow within us again?

Even though in the bible it says that satans power will become obsolete, could there be lessons to learn in heaven as well?

Originally posted by runetang


I have to actually take something i said here back which was incorrect. There doesnt have to be a wrong path for freewill to exist; in heaven or utopia you could have nothing but good paths, and no evil paths to tempt you. but if you are on this earth, where the Tempter dwelleth, it will become a decision of faith for the hereafter.

[edit on 11/26/2006 by runetang]

As in the case of Adam and Eve, is there a force that can 'suck us' back out of heaven?

With minds like children, we could be vulnerable.

Even though it says that the opposing force will be destroyed, could it possibly grow within us again?

Even though in the bible it says that satans power will become obsolete, could there be lessons to learn in heaven as well?

I would like to share this with you, though I might have shared this before. I have this children's picture bible with me and it shows Satan in a loincloth flying infront of Jesus. Discuss.

Originally posted by laiguana
I would like to share this with you, though I might have shared this before. I have this children's picture bible with me and it shows Satan in a loincloth flying infront of Jesus. Discuss.

What part of the bible is it representative of?

I mean, Satan would always try to stay one step ahead.

Are you sure it is representative of the devil?

I am not doubting your word here, by the way.

It was during the temptation of Christ. Btw...do you have any interesting links about your theories. I am interested.

I'll scan it later if you want.

[edit on 27-11-2006 by laiguana]

Originally posted by Unrealised
As in the case of Adam and Eve, is there a force that can 'suck us' back out of heaven?

Yes, "Satan".

Though it is taught that Self-Realized Masters can only fall if they have a physical body, even if they don't have any ego.

Meaning that it is impossible for one without ego to fall unless they have a physical body.

With minds like children, we could be vulnerable.

To what?

I think the way to Heaven is to have minds that are child-like, not childish.

Even though it says that the opposing force will be destroyed, could it possibly grow within us again?

The study of the Tree of Life(and it's fatal anti-thesis, the Klipoth), should help to answer your question(but only YOU can ultimately answer it for yourself, through direct experience).

Even though in the bible it says that satans power will become obsolete, could there be lessons to learn in heaven as well?

Depends on what you mean by "Heaven"(having in mind that there are many levels of "Heaven" or levels of Being in relation to the Tree of Life).

But in many contexts, I would say: Yes

Edit



[edit on 27-11-2006 by Tamahu]

Edit: Double Post

[edit on 27-11-2006 by Tamahu]