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Russia Wants to Avenge US

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posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 11:28 AM
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Russia is seeking means of revenge against the United States.

Russians have not forgotten Vietnam and Afghanistan.

US had defeated the mighty Russian forces in both countries.

Russia felt humiliated, and it thinks now is the time for retribution.

Russian security services KGB, SBV, FSB have been planning to use Iran to defeat US.

Russia's GRU is secretly supplying advanced weapons to Iran.

It knows that soon US will attack Iran. And it is arming Iran to the teeth.

And just as US has helped Afhgans to beat Soviet military during the 80s,
now Russia see opportunity to settle old scores.


www.telegraph.co.uk.../news/2006/11/25/wiran25.xml




[edit on 25-11-2006 by mr conspiracy]




posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 11:51 AM
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Originally posted by mr conspiracy
Russia is seeking means of revenge against the United States.

Russians have not forgotten Vietnam and Afghanistan.

US had defeated the mighty Russian forces in both countries.

Russia felt humiliated, and it thinks now is the time for retribution.


emphasis added by me. funny.....we won the war in vietnam? couple of vietnam vets on this board who will probably tend to disagree.

we got kicked out of vietnam, a country supported by russian technology, and the russians got kicked out of afghanistan, a country supported by US technology. seems like it would be more correct to say the record is 1-1, with one tie (korea).



posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 04:28 PM
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I won't disagree that Russia would like to see the US take a fall - I think at this point most countries, even our European allies, would be more than happy to see us taken down a peg or two. The only countries that I can think of that are still firmly in our corner are the UK, Japan, and Australia.

The US has asserted for itself the right to rule the planet in all but name.
It shouldn't be too surprising that the rest of the planet has other ideas.

[edit on 11/25/06 by xmotex]



posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 04:32 PM
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Of course, Russia is trying to get back to superpower status and moving backwards with human rights and democracy.


BTW -- you should change your title "avenge" is not the correct word, it actually means pretty much the opposite of what you are trying to say



posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 04:34 PM
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Originally posted by snafu7700

emphasis added by me. funny.....we won the war in vietnam? couple of vietnam vets on this board who will probably tend to disagree.


Not only vets. Anyone who lived through that era can tell you that we didn't win anything in Vietnam, not nohow, no way in hell. We were forced to withdraw because we were losing, just like in Iran. j

Are they teaching kids now that the U.S.A won the Vietnam War? Sheesh.



posted on Nov, 27 2006 @ 11:45 AM
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[edit on 27-11-2006 by reaper2]



posted on Nov, 27 2006 @ 11:58 AM
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It should be no surprise that one world "Super-power" is trying to overpower another one. For many years, US has been the leading super-power of the world, and yet now, countries in Asia are soon to surpass US in the next few years. Together, India, China, and Russia all have enough man power to be the next economic powerhouse, and I believe this is what we see unfolding in the news.

In Business school, they teach us to learn Cantonese, Mandarin, or Urdu, because economists and businessmen all predict that the largest amount of business in the next few years will be in China and India. If you look through history, no country has remained the super-power for very long. There has to be a balance in the world, and in for many decades, Asia will triumph.



posted on Nov, 27 2006 @ 12:05 PM
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Originally posted by xmotex
I won't disagree that Russia would like to see the US take a fall - I think at this point most countries, even our European allies, would be more than happy to see us taken down a peg or two. The only countries that I can think of that are still firmly in our corner are the UK, Japan, and Australia.

The US has asserted for itself the right to rule the planet in all but name.
It shouldn't be too surprising that the rest of the planet has other ideas.

[edit on 11/25/06 by xmotex]


I feel the same way..

We are like the noisy obnoxious kid who happens to be bigger then everyone else, we are very young on the world stage and yet we talk down to our allies, especially Europe like they are little kids them selves. I have no doubt that France, Germany, Italy, Britain, pretty much everyone would love to see us knocked back a little. We even wage war on their currency (Euro) it is just ridiculous the way we treat them.. Russia is the same way, I don't think they want a war, or even another proxy, but we talk S#%! to them so much it isn't even funny.. remember this year in Lithuania?
Russians where so pissed off for a little bit I was a little worried.



posted on Nov, 27 2006 @ 12:10 PM
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Originally posted by snafu7700

Originally posted by mr conspiracy
Russia is seeking means of revenge against the United States.

Russians have not forgotten Vietnam and Afghanistan.

US had defeated the mighty Russian forces in both countries.

Russia felt humiliated, and it thinks now is the time for retribution.


emphasis added by me. funny.....we won the war in vietnam? couple of vietnam vets on this board who will probably tend to disagree.

we got kicked out of vietnam, a country supported by russian technology, and the russians got kicked out of afghanistan, a country supported by US technology. seems like it would be more correct to say the record is 1-1, with one tie (korea).



Well,technically,no, we didn't win Vietnam. We chose to pull out rather than stay the extra year it would have taken to have actually won the war. What always mystified me about the Vietnam war is, other than the fact we were over there to begin with, that we had te Viet Cong on the run and decided to withdraw.



posted on Nov, 27 2006 @ 04:49 PM
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What always mystified me about the Vietnam war is, other than the fact we were over there to begin with, that we had te Viet Cong on the run and decided to withdraw.


Ask most people who were there, and they'll tell you that we never had them on the run.
We may have won every major battle, but we never seriously compromised their will or ability to fight.

It was a war of attrition, and in the end they were willing to take far more losses than we were. They simply had a lot more at stake than we did. For us it was a war against a nebulous enemy on the other side of the planet. For them it was a war of independence.

[edit on 11/27/06 by xmotex]



posted on Nov, 28 2006 @ 03:16 PM
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Originally posted by mr conspiracy
Russia is seeking means of revenge against the United States.


Helping Iran has much more to do with money, than with spoiling the great War On Terror US has rolling there. Russia is interested in neither revenge, nor in becoming an imperial superpower, and it is time to leave the USSR and Cold War in the past.


Originally posted by mr conspiracy
Russians have not forgotten Vietnam and Afghanistan.


Actually for the most part they have forgoten both. No one talks about these conflicts, and no one takes interests in them anymore because they are burried with the USSR. The only conflict which Russians might resent the US for, is the attack on Serbia by NATO. That and the recent puppet governments "installed" by US in Ukraine and Georgia. And if Russia wants to "avenge" these in any way, such as helping Iran, more power to it. The lack of power balance between superpowers since the Cold War ended, has allowed the US to abuse its status, and any new power balance would be a welcome change for everyone outside the US.



Originally posted by mr conspiracy
US had defeated the mighty Russian forces in both countries.


Considering that the "mighty Russian forces" did not take part in Vietnam, and that US military personel did not take part in Russia's war in Afganistan, I don't see how you can classify either side as a definitive winner. In fact actual US and Russian army personel have not engaged in direct conflict with each other, except for the Russian pilots who took part in the Korean War. These were both proxy wars, and only one of the superpowers was militarily involved in each, while the other sat on the sidelines and tried to spoil the war for the other.


Originally posted by mr conspiracy
Russia felt humiliated, and it thinks now is the time for retribution.


Russia (USSR) did not feel humiliated, because by the time Afganistan War ended, no one cared the least about the outcome anymore. USSR was falling apart, perestroika was starting to take place, and no one needed Afganistan anymore because. Russia could have stayed there, but there was absolutely no need for it resistance or no resistance, because there was turmoil in Russia itself.



Originally posted by mr conspiracy
Russian security services KGB, SBV, FSB have been planning to use Iran to defeat US.

Russia's GRU is secretly supplying advanced weapons to Iran.

It knows that soon US will attack Iran. And it is arming Iran to the teeth.


I don't think anyone can "use" Iran, because it is rather hard to have an influence on hardline religious extremists. What Iran is doing, has nothing to do with what Russia wants. In fact Russia has criticized Iran's actions and threats. And Iran will not be defeating anybody, because as things are going now US is in no position to stage an attack in many years to come.

The only reason Iran is getting weapons, is for self defense, as it would be absolutely unthinkable that Iran can successfully attack US first. If there will be any attack it will either come from US or Israel, which is highly unlikely currently.

Last I looked, Russia declined to supply the newest advanced weapons to Iran, and judging by Iran's military exercises and parades, the weapons they have are largely from the Cold War era or self-designed. Sure there is weapons trade going on, because where there is money to be made (and Iran has immense monetary reserves) there is someone willing to do business. I am certain China is dealing with Iran as well.



posted on Nov, 28 2006 @ 03:20 PM
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Originally posted by xmotex


It was a war of attrition, and in the end they were willing to take far more losses than we were. They simply had a lot more at stake than we did. For us it was a war against a nebulous enemy on the other side of the planet. For them it was a war of independence.



More like war of conquering. The NVA failed to conquer South Vietnam many times, since the U.S. military was in the way. So they used the VC has means of hit and run attacks and sabotage and inflicting casualties until the American people decided enough was enough. Effective strategy. After the U.S. pulled out, North Vietnam succeeded in taking over South Vietnam.



posted on Nov, 28 2006 @ 03:35 PM
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I agree to some extent that Russia is trying to get revenge on America for what happened during the Cold War but I wouldn't put it in those words. Russian president Vladimir Putin is trying to improve Russia's sphere of influence with its neighbours, for example with countries in the Middle East. Russia is doing this by selling arms to and exporting energy.

Apparently, Putin is heavily influenced by former Russian Prime Minister Evgeny Primakov who wanted to see American world dominance diminished by creating a multipolar world.

--------------------------------------------------

Cohen, Ariel (2001, January 18). Putin's Foreign Policy and U.S.- Russian Relations. Retrieved November 28, 2006, from The Heritage Foundation Web site: www.heritage.org...



posted on Nov, 28 2006 @ 03:58 PM
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I would say Mr. Conspiracy has brought on the wrath of the local Russian Propagandist. You can't say a word about Russia, good or otherwise without invoking Maloy!


You can tell Russia want's to be powerful again, you can tell they want that influence, they want the ability to scare people into doing their will again.. you cannot take power from a nation, a government and not expect them to want it back.



posted on Nov, 28 2006 @ 04:09 PM
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Originally posted by deltaboy
More like war of conquering. The NVA failed to conquer South Vietnam many times, since the U.S. military was in the way. So they used the VC has means of hit and run attacks and sabotage and inflicting casualties until the American people decided enough was enough. Effective strategy. After the U.S. pulled out, North Vietnam succeeded in taking over South Vietnam.


They didn't try to "conquer" South Vietnam, but instead to unite the country which should have never been separate in the first place. French Colonialism and later US interference created the tension between Vietnamese factions, as they wanted to partition the country. Similar things happened in many post-colonial regions, where countries that have historically been together as one were split apart by the leaving colonial authorities. India and Pakistan were partitioned, and that resulted in a bloody struggle that continues to this day. Israel and Palestine were patitioned- and we all know how great that worked out. Yugoslavia was split into a dozen small unrecognizable states as the result of pressure from NATO.

US wanted to divide Vietnam, for its own benefit in the Cold War. This was not for the benefit of South Vietnamese, but for the benefit of Western influence in the region. Russia did not get involved untill the US got involved. If US stayed out, and let the Vietnamese settle their differences, it would have never escalated to a conflict that resulted. Why can't the Vietnamese, or anyone else for that matter settle civil disputes in their own nation? US states settled their differences in the Civil War. The lesson is- stay out of civil affairs of other countries. Whatever intervention you attempt, you will only make it worse and prolong the conflict, and make yourself new enemies.



posted on Nov, 28 2006 @ 04:12 PM
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Mr conspiracy in a way maloy is correct, about history (which you seem to know very little of).

But...I do believe Russia is trying to be the big superpower again, and I do believe the US is trying to stop that. And I do believe Russia is being friendly with China and India as last resorts almost (the potential challengers of tomorrow is my friend today). And I do emphasis the word TODAY, because geopolitics is very confusing and always changing. And it doesn't take a PhD in political sciences to know that China and Russia are not friends.

Nor do I think it is very hard to imagine a more nationalistic government taking hold in Russia and disliking the encroaching neighbor that is infringing upon the country's land [aka China]


[edit on 28-11-2006 by RetinoidReceptor]



posted on Nov, 28 2006 @ 04:17 PM
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Maloy you might as well agree with Kim Jong in trying to reunified South Korea from American imperialism. They will use any ways of propaganda to justifying conquering its neighboring state they believe its theirs.



posted on Nov, 28 2006 @ 04:41 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
I would say Mr. Conspiracy has brought on the wrath of the local Russian Propagandist. You can't say a word about Russia, good or otherwise without invoking Maloy!


Propagandist? In this respect anyone who takes any side and sticks with it is a propagandist. There are so many pro-US and pro-Western arguements here, especially when it comes to talking about Russia- so what's wrong with me being the devil's advocate? I do not support everything Russia does, especially internally, nor do I worship Putin like so many Russians do. But with so many accusations from US/NATO/UK against Russia, it seems that Western propaganda is the one attributing to these topics and people's predisposed opinion about them, rather than my "propaganda". The media tells you Putin=bad, Putin=anti-democracy, Putin=evil Russia empire (be very afraid), and alot of opinions here mirror this exact picture that the West is so dilligently painting for you.

And here I thought the whole whole purpose was to take everything with at least a grain of salt.

So when someone takes the side of a minority opinion, such as supporting Iran, Russia, North Korea, they are labeled a propagandist. When someone trumpets the majority opinion- they are patriotic and honest.



Originally posted by Rockpuck
You can tell Russia want's to be powerful again, you can tell they want that influence, they want the ability to scare people into doing their will again.. you cannot take power from a nation, a government and not expect them to want it back.


Most definitely Russia wants to be powerful and have influence in the affairs of its neightbors. All large nations deserve some sphere of influence, all the more so when their own safety and defense depends on it.

But if you say Russia is coercing and terrifying its neighbors to gain some influence, how would you classify America's actions around the world in trying to get this same influece? Is US being humanitarian and caring when it wants to liberate poor Iraqis or Vietnamese? Is US so deeply concerned about the well-being of their Latin American neightbors? You'd figure that 2/3 of the world (including 3/4 of your South American neighbors), wouldn't be of the opinion that US is a Domineering Imperialistic Police Force meant to insure that the world is safe for its global trading empire- but that is exactly what they feel.

Saying that Russia is doing something "evil" or brutal that US is not doing in this respect, seems to be very hypocritical.

US has been scaring people around the world for ages. Who wouldn't be scared of the Great Liberator of the Iraqi people, which liberates others with smart bombs and occupation forces numbering in tens of thousands. Lets make the world "Safer for Democracy", and in the process destroy a large portion of it- but it's all good.

Russia is/was involved in some questionable regime changes and had some puppet governments. But today the extent of Russia's influence in this respect is far more limited than that of the US- which stretches around the world. I'd say a random person in the world has more reason to be concerned about the US right now than Russia or even Radical terrorists.


US/UK is on a campaign to demonize Russia, Iran and North Korea. This witch hunt is for no other reason than to make the population afraid, and come crying to the authority for support and protection, like what happened after 9/11. And the authority will be all to happy to carry out the patriotic calls to destoy the "Axis of Evil" that supposedly threatens your democracy. And then the population grows discontent with the war and calls to end it. And then the authority plays its propanda card once again. The cycle continues, and every time people fail to learn the lesson.



posted on Nov, 28 2006 @ 05:09 PM
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Originally posted by deltaboy
Maloy you might as well agree with Kim Jong in trying to reunified South Korea from American imperialism. They will use any ways of propaganda to justifying conquering its neighboring state they believe its theirs.


The initial war in Korea was in fact meant to unite the country, even if it was by force (similarly the Union tried to unite US by force in the Civil War). That was so untill the neighboring powers all became involved, including US, China, and Russia- and after that it spiralled into a mindless proxy war. I do not agree with the currect leader of North Korea, nor do I really think he seriously considers restarting the conflict with South Korea. If there was a time for North Korea to act, it was during the Korean War. It is obvious that war today is out of question because South Korea has evolved so much it is no longer capable of being together with North Korea.

However I feel that Kim Jong Ill's awkward miliraristic behavior (testing nuclear weapons) is the result no so much of wanting to unite Korea, but of the increasing pressure from the US. After Iraq fell, it isn't hard to imagine why North Korea or Iran shouldn be trembling in their shoes. And I am more than sure that the majority of people in those countries do not feel thrilled about the impending "liberation" by the Americans. Even if these people weren't subject to their government's propaganda, and knew what is going on Iraq, they wouldn't change their mind.

I do support the arming of both NK and Iran, because at least the higher degree of challenge that their resistance would offer against the US or NATO, would somewhat discourage further progress of this moronic quest called the War On Terror. I strongly oppose regimes of both of those countries, but I oppose even more the chaos that could ensue if the US (or Israel?) attempt to enduce a regime change through military force.

What many don't realize, is that the behavior of these fanatics or religious radicalists is only reactionary. They didn't suddenly pop-up in random parts of the world to make people's lives miserable. They were caused by the still raging conflict of civilizations. And while their behavior (suicide bombings, attacks on civilians) is in no way justified, the cause of their existance is still not being addressed by the WOT- in fact just the opposite is happening. To root this problem out a different approach is needed, but luckily for Bush and his supporters all of the focus is on military campaign in Iraq and the evil deeds of Mr. Putin.



A very similar underlying cause- is the reason for Putin's rise to power and his actions today. Russia is simply reacting to America's behavior after the fall of USSR. The reason why Putin came to power, is the tremendous exploitation and corruption of Russia in the 90's, being fueled by UK (and to a lesser degree US) - the exact place where the ex-Russian oligarchs are now hiding with their stolen loot. The oligarchs and the bribed politicians allowed Russia to be robbed both from within and outside. Many of them were funded through Britain, and the mafia monopolies laundered their money through the West to some extent.

Putin helped dismantle this hideous semi-capitalist beraucracy, but his authoritarian tactics created new problems. But as far as Russians see- its a trade of between the lesser of the two evils. Eventually, if the Western pressure is kept out, authoritarianism of Russian government will gradually give way to more liberal government. These tactics are necessary to combat crime and corruption, and untill that fight is over "ideal democracy" will have to wait. And so will the West.



posted on Nov, 28 2006 @ 06:04 PM
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Originally posted by maloy
the side of a minority opinion, such as supporting Iran, Russia, North Korea, they are labeled a propagandist. When someone trumpets the majority opinion- they are patriotic and honest.


I don't think anybody is denying that the US is hypocritical and does bad things, you are the one who constantly denies that Russia is though. Your response, like so many others when people bring up what their countries do wrong, is bring up what the US does wrong. Not a very good defense.



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