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Freemasonry's symbols and those who misunderstand them.

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posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 12:32 AM
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This topic should be very comprehensive but I'll try to remain concise. Simply put - anti-Masons have little knowledge about what they talk about. Like-wise so do many Masons, but more Masons, and scholars have delved into that world of symbolism than have anti-Masons. In fact, anti-Masonry is rooted in ignorance.

Where did it begin, or why? The Catholic Church was the first to condemn Masonry - people often use this as great evidence against Masons, but the Catholic Church condemned many others ... burning at the stake the first man to suggest there were worlds around other stars (do these same anti-Masons shun this notion now that we have discovered over 100 solar systems?)

They imprisoned Galileo, and prosecuted Copernicus, they excommunicated England because they resisted Church rule.

I am in no way against the Catholic Church - they got us through the Dark Ages and were the beginnings of the scientific movement, but when they unleashed science and it bit their dogma - they retaliated.

Freemasonry - the first known speculative masons being the first to create the Royal Society (the first scientist academie in Britain) namely Elias Ashmole and Sir Robert Bacon - received the full brunt of the Catholic oppression.

Now - various things are misunderstood by anti-Masons.

Take for example the all seeing eye. A symbol that was used for hundreds of years originating in the 1600s.

The All Seeing Eye on a Catholic Church

Ironic - what people consider "gnostic" or "statanic" is in fact used by the Catholic church (but many who are anti-Masons probably think the Catholic church is satanic too).

Symbolism is often changed over the years and then people misunderstand that...

Such as the Star of David - which is found on Midieval churches in the holy land - before it became a symbol of Judaism.

In short - when the actual symbols of Masonry are understood, there is little ground for anti-Masons. But you have to cut through the changing interpretations of symbols or meanings...such as Lucifer (which is not in Masonry at all anyway).




posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 11:39 PM
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Boost

Can no one debate reality? Is that what it is?



posted on Nov, 26 2006 @ 01:44 AM
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Hey I dont know if you only want to talk about the eye.. but heres some images I have and I was wondering if you could give me an explanation on them.

violator.atspace.com...
(Edit
ops wrong code!)

The first comes from a temple (I think all of these pics come from england, but im not sure) And it has a "pharoe" type guy with a penis(?) under his chin or just a strange neck, 5-point star inside 2 circles. And the 2 circle theme is also on top of the pharoe's crown, then a sword placed blade down over the whole pic. The headdress is either 5 or 6 sided, and the large circle is gold, sivler and black.

The second and third pics come from the same temple I believe. They show a globe under a net. The first one appears to be the heavens and the second is a typical globe with lines of lattitude and longitude.

The fourth pic has some blurry religious looking stained glass picture, but it reminded me of the Denver airport picture (which I superimposed). My question here is whether theres any significance to psychoactive plants in religious use for masons past or present. And if indeed thats what it is.

The fifth picture has 2 stained glass circles one with a hexagram and the second one with a strange 8-sided shape w/ a dark cirlce in the center. What is the significance of this strange shape?

The sixth picture has the token pyramid with a strange almost-"s" shape in its center. Could you explain this to me? The superimposed picture of a black circle and green "s-shape" was found when I did an image search for "black sun." Is there any connection?

The final picture is the birth of the universe (or the solar system?) as far as I can make out. Theres the typical womb shaped visica piscis surrounding the heavens. But some of the planets appear to be missing and instead theres a comet. Does the comet have some importance? Why is the moon as big a saturn and mars and jupiter are small, and theres no Earth?

[edit on 11/26/2006 by ViolatoR]

[edit on 11/26/2006 by ViolatoR]



posted on Nov, 26 2006 @ 02:03 AM
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the masons have sex rituals in their lodges.bum bum bum

[edit on 26-11-2006 by muhlis]



posted on Nov, 26 2006 @ 02:39 AM
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ViolatoR, Could you fix that extrenal pic. (it's not loading, + it has an html extension)


Originally posted by Stratrf_Rus
Simply put - anti-Masons have little knowledge about what they talk about. Like-wise so do many Masons, but more Masons, and scholars have delved into that world of symbolism than have anti-Masons. In fact, anti-Masonry is rooted in ignorance.


I would say hasty generalizations like above is what leads to ignorance in the first place.


A symbol that was used for hundreds of years originating in the 1600s.

What about the Eye of Horus?


Such as the Star of David - which is found on Midieval churches in the holy land - before it became a symbol of Judaism.



Its usage as a sign of Jewish identity began in the Middle Ages, though its religious useage began earlier, with the current earliest archeological evidence being a stone bearing the shield from the arch of a 3-4th century synagogue in the Galilee


But it appears it might have been used even earlier…


The hexagram is a Mandala symbol called satkona yantra or sadkona yantra found on ancient South Indian Hindu temples built thousands of years ago.

en.wikipedia.org...


You seem to be spreading a little ignorance of your own.


I don’t think you did much to stop the spread of anti-masonry. Find stronger arguments than a few symbols you haven’t even bothered looking up on wiki next time.


What claims made by ant-masons are you debunking here? What do they say about these symbols?

[edit on 26/11/06 by ConspiracyNut23]



posted on Nov, 26 2006 @ 06:52 AM
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The person with the pics those are Shriner symbols and have nothing to do with Masonry (and I personally find many Shriners to be very disagreeable and belong more in an elks club or such. Just my experience).

To the last poster.

No, get over yourself, the eye of horus has nothing to do with the eye of providence, that is, those who put it on the Great Seal of the United States and those who use it in Masonry whouldn't have known what you were talking about in 1790s.

The Eye of Horus is a dug-up archaelogical discovery resurfaced in the middle 1800s that prior to then was lost to history around the time of Caesar (50BC).

You might as well be making the claim that Buddhists using the Swastika are akin to Nazis using the Hakenkreuz.



posted on Nov, 26 2006 @ 08:11 PM
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Originally posted by Stratrf_Rus
The person with the pics those are Shriner symbols and have nothing to do with Masonry (and I personally find many Shriners to be very disagreeable and belong more in an elks club or such. Just my experience).

To the last poster.

No, get over yourself, the eye of horus has nothing to do with the eye of providence, that is, those who put it on the Great Seal of the United States and those who use it in Masonry whouldn't have known what you were talking about in 1790s.

The Eye of Horus is a dug-up archaelogical discovery resurfaced in the middle 1800s that prior to then was lost to history around the time of Caesar (50BC).

You might as well be making the claim that Buddhists using the Swastika are akin to Nazis using the Hakenkreuz.


Shriners have nothing to do with masonry huh? let me tell you something buddy. to become a shriner you have to be a 3rd degree master mason, and in some states a 32 degree scottish rite mason...BUT since you are sooo sure that shrines have nothing to do with masonry i have to say that the rest of your "evidence", or "theory" is just as bunked as this statement.



posted on Nov, 26 2006 @ 09:47 PM
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Originally posted by ViolatoR
Hey I dont know if you only want to talk about the eye.. but heres some images I have and I was wondering if you could give me an explanation on them.

violator.atspace.com...
(Edit
ops wrong code!)

The first comes from a temple (I think all of these pics come from england, but im not sure) And it has a "pharoe" type guy with a penis(?) under his chin or just a strange neck, 5-point star inside 2 circles. And the 2 circle theme is also on top of the pharoe's crown, then a sword placed blade down over the whole pic. The headdress is either 5 or 6 sided, and the large circle is gold, sivler and black.

The second and third pics come from the same temple I believe. They show a globe under a net. The first one appears to be the heavens and the second is a typical globe with lines of lattitude and longitude.

The fourth pic has some blurry religious looking stained glass picture, but it reminded me of the Denver airport picture (which I superimposed). My question here is whether theres any significance to psychoactive plants in religious use for masons past or present. And if indeed thats what it is.

The fifth picture has 2 stained glass circles one with a hexagram and the second one with a strange 8-sided shape w/ a dark cirlce in the center. What is the significance of this strange shape?

The sixth picture has the token pyramid with a strange almost-"s" shape in its center. Could you explain this to me? The superimposed picture of a black circle and green "s-shape" was found when I did an image search for "black sun." Is there any connection?

The final picture is the birth of the universe (or the solar system?) as far as I can make out. Theres the typical womb shaped visica piscis surrounding the heavens. But some of the planets appear to be missing and instead theres a comet. Does the comet have some importance? Why is the moon as big a saturn and mars and jupiter are small, and theres no Earth?


So umwolves123 can you describe the images I linked to? Im most interested in the last three.



posted on Nov, 26 2006 @ 10:36 PM
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Originally posted by umwolves123

Originally posted by Stratrf_Rus
The person with the pics those are Shriner symbols and have nothing to do with Masonry (and I personally find many Shriners to be very disagreeable and belong more in an elks club or such. Just my experience).

To the last poster.

No, get over yourself, the eye of horus has nothing to do with the eye of providence, that is, those who put it on the Great Seal of the United States and those who use it in Masonry whouldn't have known what you were talking about in 1790s.

The Eye of Horus is a dug-up archaelogical discovery resurfaced in the middle 1800s that prior to then was lost to history around the time of Caesar (50BC).

You might as well be making the claim that Buddhists using the Swastika are akin to Nazis using the Hakenkreuz.


Shriners have nothing to do with masonry huh? let me tell you something buddy. to become a shriner you have to be a 3rd degree master mason, and in some states a 32 degree scottish rite mason...BUT since you are sooo sure that shrines have nothing to do with masonry i have to say that the rest of your "evidence", or "theory" is just as bunked as this statement.


Great good for you - so Shriners are Masons, I still don't know of any Shriners in the former British Empire, in African lodges, in Asian lodges, in Eurasian Lodges, in Middle Eastern lodges.

Looking...looking...nope.

No Shriners.

The Patron of Freemasonry is traditionally the highest ranking British Nobleman in Freemasonry currently the Duke of Kent (because Prince Charles hasn't joined).

He is a 3rd degree Mason. Not a York Rite Templar, not a Scottish Rite 33rd Grand Poobah.

He's a plain old Master Mason.

And he wields more honor and authority than all the rest.

Don't blab to me what's Masonic...America needs to screw its head back on straight.



posted on Nov, 26 2006 @ 10:56 PM
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Originally posted by Stratrf_Rus
The Eye of Horus is a dug-up archaelogical discovery resurfaced in the middle 1800s that prior to then was lost to history around the time of Caesar (50BC).

Why assume that people forgot all about it and didn't use it after that period, even if they didn't realize that it stemmed from egypt? There's no reason why it couldn't've simply been a popular symbol, the origins of which most people simply weren't aware of.


violator
The sixth picture has the token pyramid with a strange almost-"s" shape in its center.

I think its the hebrew symbol for god, the letter 'yod'.

The fifth picture has 2 stained glass circles one with a hexagram and the second one with a strange 8-sided shape w/ a dark cirlce in the center. What is the significance of this strange shape?

Its a keystone. A keystone is the stone of an arch that rests at the apex, its the stone that allows the arch to stand on its own.

The second and third pics come from the same temple I believe. They show a globe under a net. The first one appears to be the heavens and the second is a typical globe with lines of lattitude and longitude.

The net, as I understand it, represents the earth bound by a network, which is what the fraternity is, a network of people bonded together.

The first comes from a temple (I think all of these pics come from england, but im not sure) And it has a "pharoe" type guy with a penis(?) under his chin or just a strange neck,

I suspect that its meant to be the typical beard of the pharoahs, not a phallus. OF course, one could probably argue that the pharoah's beard is a phallus anyway. That image is, I beleive, specific to the Shrine. The Shriners are a paramasonic organization, only masons are allowed to join, and its supposed to continue the masonic teachings. Its really semantics to argue if they are masonic or not. If history had gone a slightly different way, perhaps the shrine would have the same status as the York Rite or Scottish Rite within regular masonry, and the York or Scottish Rite might've been 'paramasonic' organizations.
Its all part of the same ball of wax.
Shriners, anyway, take most of their symbolism from the near east, the world of islam and ancient egypt. I think that this is done almost as a sort of mock parody of most other ancience wisdom traditions. If you notice, those esoteric occultic organizations allways seem to be founded by people that 'travelled to the ancient and mysterious east to learn from wizened masters'. Christian Rosenkreuz is probably the 'prototype' for that. THis is largely because, in a sense, there's truth to it. When the west had destroyed the works of classical knowledge, the east preserved it, and added to it greatly, so it was natural for the westerners to learn from actual masters in the east.
Egypt is in a similar position, having been a long lived and ancient civilization when 'ancient greece' was young. The freeks even would make claims to be descended or connected in some way to ancient egypt, it gave them a certain air of authority.
So you have the scimitar, a typically eastern sword, and hanging from it, a crescent moon, another reference to islam (just that its pointing down instead of to the side, probably an asthetic rather than an esoteric decision).


[edit on 26-11-2006 by Nygdan]



posted on Nov, 26 2006 @ 11:05 PM
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Hi ViolatoR

Re: your pictures...


Originally posted by ViolatoR
The first comes from a temple (I think all of these pics come from england, but im not sure) And it has a "pharoe" type guy with a penis(?) under his chin or just a strange neck, 5-point star inside 2 circles. And the 2 circle theme is also on top of the pharoe's crown, then a sword placed blade down over the whole pic. The headdress is either 5 or 6 sided, and the large circle is gold, sivler and black.

This is a Shriners symbol, and as such probably doesn't come from England as the Shriners there are a very small group. As mentioned previously, to join a Shrine one must already be a freemason, but that doesn't in itself make it masonic. Personally I would say not, but the fact of the matter is that all Shriners are freemasons and it is extremely popular in many parts of the US. It is part of the 'masonic family' there, but is viewed more neutrally in other parts of the world (e.g. England).


The second and third pics come from the same temple I believe. They show a globe under a net. The first one appears to be the heavens and the second is a typical globe with lines of lattitude and longitude.

The second image is hard to make out, and these could certainly be masonic, portraying the top of either of the two pillars at the porchway or entrance to King Solomons Temple. They are described in 1 Kings 7:


King Solomon sent to Tyre and brought Huram, whose mother was a widow from the tribe of Naphtali and whose father was a man of Tyre and a craftsman in bronze. Huram was highly skilled and experienced in all kinds of bronze work. He came to King Solomon and did all the work assigned to him.

He cast two bronze pillars, each eighteen cubits high and twelve cubits around, by line. He also made two capitals of cast bronze to set on the tops of the pillars; each capital was five cubits high. A network of interwoven chains festooned the capitals on top of the pillars, seven for each capital. He made pomegranates in two rows encircling each network to decorate the capitals on top of the pillars. He did the same for each capital. The capitals on top of the pillars in the portico were in the shape of lilies, four cubits high. On the capitals of both pillars, above the bowl-shaped part next to the network, were the two hundred pomegranates in rows all around. He erected the pillars at the portico of the temple. The pillar to the south he named Jakin and the one to the north Boaz. The capitals on top were in the shape of lilies. And so the work on the pillars was completed.



The fourth pic has some blurry religious looking stained glass picture, but it reminded me of the Denver airport picture (which I superimposed). My question here is whether theres any significance to psychoactive plants in religious use for masons past or present. And if indeed thats what it is.

No is the short answer. The picture looks like it has been taken in a church, and I don't see any masonic connection (although its hard to see much detail).


The fifth picture has 2 stained glass circles one with a hexagram and the second one with a strange 8-sided shape w/ a dark cirlce in the center. What is the significance of this strange shape?

The upper image is the Seal of Solomon and is used in Royal Arch masonry. The lower is a keystone and is used in Mark masonry - there is a picture and some info at lodgegibbs86gli.tripod.com...

Both of these degrees can be found in the York Rite in the US. The Seal of Solomon is also used in the jewish faith and is known as the Star of David.


The sixth picture has the token pyramid with a strange almost-"s" shape in its center. Could you explain this to me? The superimposed picture of a black circle and green "s-shape" was found when I did an image search for "black sun." Is there any connection?

This is from the Scottish Rite, and represents one of the degrees. Sorry - I'm not in the Scottish Rite. Lots of other people are though so hopefully you'll get an answer from someone else on this one.


The final picture is the birth of the universe (or the solar system?) as far as I can make out. Theres the typical womb shaped visica piscis surrounding the heavens. But some of the planets appear to be missing and instead theres a comet. Does the comet have some importance? Why is the moon as big a saturn and mars and jupiter are small, and theres no Earth?

No masonic significance. Sorry.



posted on Nov, 26 2006 @ 11:09 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by Stratrf_Rus
The second and third pics come from the same temple I believe. They show a globe under a net. The first one appears to be the heavens and the second is a typical globe with lines of lattitude and longitude.

The net, as I understand it, represents the earth bound by a network, which is what the fraternity is, a network of people bonded together.

I've not heard that explanation before ... but I like it.



posted on Nov, 26 2006 @ 11:16 PM
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Hmm, you're explanation seems more likely, what I gave as an explanation might just be a later interpretation of it.

The pillar to the south he named Jakin and the one to the north Boaz

An interesting little bit of information that I came across recently noted that, amoung the primitive mediteranean socities, people worshiped god often as a pilllar, and its thought that, since many of the more primitive homes used a central pillar to support them, their pillar cults were standalone representatives of what used to hold the house up. If thats true, then solomon having pillars in god's house takes on a slightly different character. Especially since the names translate to things like 'strength within', etc.



posted on Nov, 26 2006 @ 11:26 PM
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I don't agree with the understanding of columns in older cultures - I'd need to see an argument for it.

And the pillars Jachin and Boaz are in the Bible denoting God's help to establish (Jachin) and Strenght (Boaz).

Jachin resembles the phrase Annuit Coeptis.



posted on Nov, 26 2006 @ 11:33 PM
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You can check out Mycenaean Tree and Pillar Cult and Its Mediterranean Relations
Arthur J. Evans Journal of Hellenic Studies, Vol. 21, 1901 (1901), pp. 99-204

Its on JSTOR, if you have access to it.



posted on Nov, 28 2006 @ 04:51 AM
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Hey thanks alot for the info. Jachin & Boaz had crossed my mind for the globes, except they werent on pillars so I was confused. Although the wooden one was above and next to a doorway. So the frame on either side of the door acts as a pillar.

Anyways you got me thinking about the 2 pillars. It would stand to reason that the idea of 2 pillars was around before Solomons Temple was built, since alot of ideas are borrowed and recylced through the ages. Where could the idea of a 2-Pillar opening come from? Could it come from the 'Pole' stars which circled Thuban(Alpha Draconis) during Egypts empire - Kockab and Mizar? Or when the pole star area was closer to the little dipper and Kockab and Pherkab were twin pole stars? (Thuban would have been the pole star around 3,000BC I think.)

Then again it would seem more like the Sun had to rise between the two "Poles" whatever they were, since thats the direction the Temple opens towards. And that would be east not north.. hmm... any ideas?


Heres a picture which came from England:



posted on Nov, 28 2006 @ 07:18 AM
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Originally posted by ViolatoR
Heres a picture which came from England:

That's the giant stone earthworm of Cumbria



posted on Nov, 28 2006 @ 07:56 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
You can check out Mycenaean Tree and Pillar Cult and Its Mediterranean Relations
Arthur J. Evans Journal of Hellenic Studies, Vol. 21, 1901 (1901), pp. 99-204

Its on JSTOR, if you have access to it.


This doesn't explain Mesopotamian pillar values however (and they are there, such as the Pillars of wisdom and what not).

Because Mycenae didn't greatly influence the then 2,000 year old Mesopotamian cultures.

Israel while several hundred years old around the time of Mycenae's external influence - originated first in the Sumer region, near to modern Jordan actually, and co-existed for a long time with Egypt.



posted on Nov, 28 2006 @ 08:07 PM
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Edit

[edit on 28-11-2006 by Tamahu]



posted on Nov, 28 2006 @ 08:08 PM
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The significance of Solomon's Temple, Jachin and Boaz, etc. cannot be understood without Kabbalah and Alchemy.

Said Sciences were not just speculations added on to FreeMasonry later on, as some suppose.

They are intrinsic to FreeMasonry.




[edit on 28-11-2006 by Tamahu]



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