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Mandantory passports/Global IDs and how the U.S. Gov't plans on issuing them.

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posted on Nov, 23 2006 @ 04:45 PM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
"Voluntarily required"? Huh?
Yes, it is voluntary.

Sec. 202, Paragraph D, Subsection 11

(11) In any case in which the State issues a driver's license or identification card that does not satisfy the requirements of this section, ensure that such license or identification card--

(A) clearly states on its face that it may not be accepted by any Federal agency for federal identification or any other official purpose; and

(B) uses a unique design or color indicator to alert Federal agency and other law enforcement personnel that it may not be accepted for any such purpose.

If you don't have what they deem fit, you get a "special" card that says, "Hi, I don't fit the criteria."


What happens today if you don't have ID on you when asked for it? The very same things will happen in 2008.
Nothing will happen 'today', there are still laws in effect 'now' that allow you time to present proper identification. H.R. 1268 changes that. The law doesn't take effect until May 2008, as shown here...

Sec. 202, Paragraph A, Subsection 1

(1) IN GENERAL- Beginning 3 years after the date of the enactment of this division, a Federal agency may not accept, for any official purpose, a driver's license or identification card issued by a State to any person unless the State is meeting the requirements of this section.



And, states can refuse to co-operate with the new federal requirements.
Umm, duh, that's what makes it 'voluntary'. If the states, voluntarily do not comply, they will be refused the monetary assistance from the federal government used to update their facilities in accordance with this law... as shown here...

Sec. 204 & 205

SEC. 204. GRANTS TO STATES.

(a) In General- The Secretary may make grants to a State to assist the State in conforming to the minimum standards set forth in this title.

(b) Authorization of Appropriations- There are authorized to be appropriated to the Secretary for each of the fiscal years 2005 through 2009 such sums as may be necessary to carry out this title.

SEC. 205. AUTHORITY.

(a) Participation of Secretary of Transportation and States- All authority to issue regulations, set standards, and issue grants under this title shall be carried out by the Secretary, in consultation with the Secretary of Transportation and the States.

(b) Extensions of Deadlines- The Secretary may grant to a State an extension of time to meet the requirements of section 202(a)(1) if the State provides adequate justification for noncompliance.



No it doesn't render you an alien. You will still have the opportunity to provide an ID. Nothing changes.
Then, what does it make you if you can't prove it to them? Do you honestly believe they will let you run home to get your ID, just because you're a nice guy? You think they'll let it slide this one time, because you're running late? Everything changes.


Why in the world would you protest it? The access rules are the access rules, and you either follow them or you don't get access.
You explain to my why the hell I need to have a Federal ID card, with my DNA code, my financial history, my library checkout history, RFID,or anything else to get into a cemetery so that I may lay flowers upon my Grandfather's grave? Am I, in the not-so-great-anymore USA, to be considered a terrorist for wanting to visit the grave of a family member that lost his life protecting our damn freedoms, because I refuse to abide to their anti-constitutional bull$hit?!?!?!
You are damn right, I'll protest that!
And I would expect no less from anyone else around!


And your conclusion about being detained under the PA is wrong. Nowhere in the legislation does it state that.
Re-read my statement... using the Patriot Act to deem you a "domestic terrorist" would allow them to arrest you, correct!?!? Once arrested as a "domestic terrorist", they can throw the Military Commissions Act at you.... by labeling you a unlawful enemy combatant... shown here...

Sec. 948a of the Military Commissions Act of 2006

`Sec. 948a. Definitions

`In this chapter:

`(1) UNLAWFUL ENEMY COMBATANT- (A) The term `unlawful enemy combatant' means--

`(i) a person who has engaged in hostilities or who has purposefully and materially supported hostilities against the United States or its co-belligerents who is not a lawful enemy combatant (including a person who is part of the Taliban, al Qaeda, or associated forces); or

`(ii) a person who, before, on, or after the date of the enactment of the Military Commissions Act of 2006, has been determined to be an unlawful enemy combatant by a Combatant Status Review Tribunal or another competent tribunal established under the authority of the President or the Secretary of Defense.

You really should do a bit more research before you decide to argue this any further.

[edit on 11/23/2006 by Infoholic]




posted on Nov, 23 2006 @ 05:29 PM
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Originally posted by Infoholic



originally posted by jsobecky
And, states can refuse to co-operate with the new federal requirements.



Umm, duh, that's what makes it 'voluntary'. If the states, voluntarily do not comply, they will be refused the monetary assistance from the federal government used to update their facilities in accordance with this law... as shown here...

Where's the news here? The feds have used withholding of monies as a lever for compliance since the time they started giving the states money.


No it doesn't render you an alien. You will still have the opportunity to provide an ID. Nothing changes.

Then, what does it make you if you can't prove it to them?

A person that doesn't have his ID with him/her.

Do you honestly believe they will let you run home to get your ID, just because you're a nice guy? You think they'll let it slide this one time, because you're running late? Everything changes.

Nope. They had a reason to ask you for it in the first place, so they will detain you until you can prove who you are. With your SS number, for example.

You forget that there are millions of people today that don't have a drivers license, for one reason or another. Some people just don't want to drive, for example. Some are blind.


You explain to my why the hell I need to have a Federal ID card, with my DNA code, my financial history, my library checkout history, RFID,or anything else to get into a cemetery so that I may lay flowers upon my Grandfather's grave? Am I, in the not-so-great-anymore USA, to be considered a terrorist for wanting to visit the grave of a family member that lost his life protecting our damn freedoms, because I refuse to abide to their anti-constitutional bull$hit?!?!?!
You are damn right, I'll protest that!
And I would expect no less from anyone else around!

You prove to me that you will be required to provide one of the new drivers licenses to visit your grandfather's grave. And then show me where the Act says that the new drivers license will include your DNA code, your library checkout history, or your financial history on it.


Re-read my statement... using the Patriot Act to deem you a "domestic terrorist" would allow them to arrest you, correct!?!?

Well, if you are "a person who has engaged in hostilities or who has purposefully and materially supported hostilities against the United States or its co-belligerents", then I guess you do qualify as a domestic terrorist.


You really should do a bit more research before you decide to argue this any further.

Haha, that's really funny.
I need to do research? Why? You're the one making outlandish and incorrect claims. You are the one who needs to do a lot more research. All I need to do is to sit here and shoot down your arguments without even cracking a book.



posted on Nov, 23 2006 @ 06:03 PM
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Infoholic, you are really grasping at invisible ropes here. A Federal Agency is not an individual, or a local police figure. A Federal Agency is an Agency that handles certain services. If you go into a Federal Courthouse to try and get certain documents, that is where you will be asked for a Federal Id card. And if you do not have the proper verification, it does not mean you will be detained, not mean you will be sent to Gitmo, DOES NOT MEAN YOU WILL BE BLACKBAGGED!!

it means, they will not give you those documents because that Federal Agency did not accept your non-Federal identification. Or if you were applying for unemployment, Federal grants/ loans, welfare assiatnce, WIC, EBT, etc etc. The legislation has nothing to do with your everyday activities, only those involving dealings with the Federal government. Need ID the show to buy beer? This law does not affect that. Need to buy an R-Rated movie or watch one at a theatre? This law does not affect that, per it's official words.

And for one, I cannot even afford to go outside of this country, so I am not worried about a passport for quite awhile. And I will be damn thankful if it is trackable, because if I am wandering in a foreign country, and for some reason I am kidnapped by an anti-american group, the Embassy may have a tool to come find me. If I do not wish to be tracked, I can leave the passport in my hotel room, in a Safety deposit box, or another trusted location. Frankly if I was super overly paranoid, it would not be hard at all to leave it somewhere safe while I move aobut, especially if I can even afford to be in another country.

I hope you understand the Federal ID thing now. It has nothing to do with your everyday life, it explicitly states a Federal Agency. Not your local movies, or convinience store. Maybe Banking, but hell its the same damn thing if it were just a state license. the whole nonsense of being detained and considered a foreign instigator is complete fantasy of a dillusional mind. If you do not have proper Id to open a bank or watch an R-Rated movie now, you are just denied service. It will be the same thing in 2008 because the law specifically states this is in relation to Federal Agencies. The kid at the box office is not going to call the FBI for fear of Al-Qaeda. Neither is the Banker. They are going to say "I am sorry we cannot accept this, please come back with proper validation". I mean they will not even require a Federal Id anyways, so that arguement is mute as far as I am concerned.



posted on Nov, 23 2006 @ 07:17 PM
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Originally posted by DYepes
And I will be damn thankful if it is trackable, because if I am wandering in a foreign country, and for some reason I am kidnapped by an anti-american group, the Embassy may have a tool to come find me.


Dream on mate. The Administration does not care about human lives. They are mass-murderers.

You are no exception.



posted on Nov, 23 2006 @ 07:30 PM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
Where's the news here? The feds have used withholding of monies as a lever for compliance since the time they started giving the states money.

Umm, not saying holding monies was "news", just pointing out how they made it voluntary.


Originally posted by jsobecky
A person that doesn't have his ID with him/her.

Referencing someone trying to access, but is not limited to Federal facilities, boarding federally regulated commercial aircraft, entering nuclear power plants, and any other purposes that the Secretary shall determine.



posted on Nov, 23 2006 @ 07:39 PM
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Originally posted by DYepes
Infoholic, you are really grasping at invisible ropes here.

Nope, just stating the facts.


Originally posted by DYepes
A Federal Agency is not an individual, or a local police figure. A Federal Agency is an Agency that handles certain services. If you go into a Federal Courthouse to try and get certain documents, that is where you will be asked for a Federal Id card. And if you do not have the proper verification, it does not mean you will be detained, not mean you will be sent to Gitmo, DOES NOT MEAN YOU WILL BE BLACKBAGGED!!

it means, they will not give you those documents because that Federal Agency did not accept your non-Federal identification. Or if you were applying for unemployment, Federal grants/ loans, welfare assiatnce, WIC, EBT, etc etc. The legislation has nothing to do with your everyday activities, only those involving dealings with the Federal government.

Derr... now read my response to jsobecky.



Originally posted by DYepes
Need ID the show to buy beer? This law does not affect that. Need to buy an R-Rated movie or watch one at a theatre? This law does not affect that, per it's official words.

Umm... yeah it will. The driver's license/ID that's around now will be obsolete in May, 2008.


Originally posted by DYepes
And for one, I cannot even afford to go outside of this country, so I am not worried about a passport for quite awhile. And I will be damn thankful if it is trackable, because if I am wandering in a foreign country, and for some reason I am kidnapped by an anti-american group, the Embassy may have a tool to come find me. If I do not wish to be tracked, I can leave the passport in my hotel room, in a Safety deposit box, or another trusted location. Frankly if I was super overly paranoid, it would not be hard at all to leave it somewhere safe while I move aobut, especially if I can even afford to be in another country.

Too bad for you. Travel is nice. But anyway... you'll still be required to have the "new" driver's license and/or National ID... by law.
As well, do you think that a kidnapper anywhere in the world would allow you to keep "on your person" a trackable devise?
Get real. Not everyone is as ignorant as your thinking there.


Originally posted by DYepes
I hope you understand the Federal ID thing now. It has nothing to do with your everyday life, it explicitly states a Federal Agency. Not your local movies, or convinience store. Maybe Banking, but hell its the same damn thing if it were just a state license. the whole nonsense of being detained and considered a foreign instigator is complete fantasy of a dillusional mind. If you do not have proper Id to open a bank or watch an R-Rated movie now, you are just denied service. It will be the same thing in 2008 because the law specifically states this is in relation to Federal Agencies. The kid at the box office is not going to call the FBI for fear of Al-Qaeda. Neither is the Banker. They are going to say "I am sorry we cannot accept this, please come back with proper validation". I mean they will not even require a Federal Id anyways, so that arguement is mute as far as I am concerned.

Maybe you need to do some research as well. The law passed, signed, and to take effect in May 2008, will in fact, effect us every one... in our every day lives. You are sadly mistaken if you think otherwise. You noting the frivolous activities... x-rated movies or convenience stores?... just wait... they've left it open in the black and white spelling of the law. Not my interpretation of it. Maybe jsobecky can help you do some reading.

[edit on 11/23/2006 by Infoholic]



posted on Nov, 23 2006 @ 09:12 PM
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you are stating things that are not even parts of the law. for instance you state this.

Referencing someone trying to access, but is not limited to Federal facilities, boarding federally regulated commercial aircraft, entering nuclear power plants, and any other purposes that the Secretary shall determine.



posted on Nov, 23 2006 @ 10:35 PM
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Originally posted by DYepes
you are stating things that are not even parts of the law. for instance you state this.

Referencing someone trying to access, but is not limited to Federal facilities, boarding federally regulated commercial aircraft, entering nuclear power plants, and any other purposes that the Secretary shall determine.



posted on Nov, 23 2006 @ 11:02 PM
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originally posted by Infoholic
Now, I have shot down your every argument. You have nothing to base your argument. Would you like to continue? I sure hope every single American is watching this thread. They all need to see through the lies that you and your type try to sell.

No need to start calling people liars, etc. He was offering his interpretation of the bill, the same as you are offering yours. I personally agree with his assessment of the situation. You are creating a false alarm based upon your paranoia and a bad interpretation of the bill.

You have taken a bill that is intended to provide a uniform, non-counterfeitable drivers license and tried to turn it into a conspiracy to create a tracking device replete with financial history and DNA profile capable of monitoring our every move. You have shown a total ignorance of and disregard for the problems facing law enforcement and the threats to our nation. Your only proof is to parrot the verbage of the bill and add your own unfounded conclusions. Having failed at that, you now resort to personal attacks.

There is nothing more to learn from this thread, at least for me. Adios.

[edit on 23-11-2006 by jsobecky]



posted on Nov, 23 2006 @ 11:08 PM
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I carry a passport, that I voluntarily (sp) maintain. My military ID and clearance are also maintained. Am I a bad person ?

Lex



posted on Nov, 23 2006 @ 11:11 PM
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Well its about time! The government better get this issue active and have every citizen under a global ID. It's an excellent plan. Those who thought of it, should be commended and awarded. I am NOT being sarcastic. This is a great approach for the NWO. Thank you.

7A



posted on Nov, 23 2006 @ 11:21 PM
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7A, I will neither confirm, nor deny that we are related. You may, or may not be G. Senior. I may, or may not be G.J.
Let the fun be had.


Lex



posted on Nov, 23 2006 @ 11:43 PM
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well my original point in the first post I made was that there is nothing stipulated in this law that states I must carry it on me at all times, and also present it or face consequences if approached without cause. I went over the section, and the majority of that whole bill from the source you cited, and there was nothing in there confirming such regulations. Of course you responded by saying it will occur as if it is fact, without anything in the bill to back up such claims.

I am not denying the Cemetary is a Federal Facility, but if you have yet to be ID'd to enter that gravesite, I highly doubt you will be so checked in 2008. If you do, holla at me, and i will kiss your butt on national TV. I make this promise to the fullest extent of fulfilling it, if it so happens. Frankly, I do not believe that to be the case. Obviously a Federal facility can be anything operated or overseen by the Gov. In all fairness, it would only be wise to believe such costly measures would only be taken in a facility where security, or the privacy of others must be taken into consideration. Hiring all those extra people costs money, and I do believe the new Democratic majority would not agree with that kind of wasteful spending.



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 01:21 AM
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Originally posted by Baphomet79
What does that have to do with Global ID's? I actually approve of the fact that those entering the U.S. have to provide proof of Citizenship instead of a simple Driver's License. This isn't an invasion of civil liberties; it's simply a good idea. Having a Passport is nothing new, but I am sure that many will say that it is only another way for Big Brother to track my movements.


I really don't know where you're from in terms of social background, but to be forced to have a passport to go across the Canadian/US border means MANY Canadians will be nothing less than imprisoned in Canada! Having a passport here in Canada is not an easy thing, and while it's common for certain social statuses, the people who don't have a well-defined or stable situation just can't get one. Moreover, it's not just an issue of crossing the borders, but also to not be able to take the plane to foreign countries that don't even ask for a passport...

Your lack of criticism for this government keeps you from realizing the biggest issues behind such crazy policy.



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 01:34 AM
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Originally posted by Echtelion
I really don't know where you're from in terms of social background, but to be forced to have a passport to go across the Canadian/US border means MANY Canadians will be nothing less than imprisoned in Canada! Having a passport here in Canada is not an easy thing, and while it's common for certain social statuses, the people who don't have a well-defined or stable situation just can't get one.


Can you clarify exactly what is the problem? It's pretty easy here in the U.S., you just go to the post office with your birth certificate, photo ID, two passport photos and the fee ($97 for a passport if you've never had one before, $67 for a renewal) and you get it in the mail like a month later. Since it lasts ten years, the fee works out to be a max of $9.70 a year, not too excessive.

Anyway, if Canada makes it really hard to get one, that's your government's problem, not ours.



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 01:37 AM
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Originally posted by 7Ayreon
Well its about time! The government better get this issue active and have every citizen under a global ID. It's an excellent plan. Those who thought of it, should be commended and awarded. I am NOT being sarcastic. This is a great approach for the NWO. Thank you.

7A


Wow, the NWO is great... Looks like you're among these people who won't get to Gitmo for being deemed as "enemy combattants" for kissing their loved one in public... or are you?

Anyways don't forget to give me an update on that when you'll be in your tiny concrete cell...



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 01:42 AM
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Originally posted by Echtelion

Originally posted by 7Ayreon
Well its about time! The government better get this issue active and have every citizen under a global ID. It's an excellent plan. Those who thought of it, should be commended and awarded. I am NOT being sarcastic. This is a great approach for the NWO. Thank you.

7A


Wow, the NWO is great... Looks like you're among these people who won't get to Gitmo for being deemed as "enemy combattants" for kissing their loved one in public... or are you?

Anyways don't forget to give me an update on that when you'll be in your tiny concrete cell...


Hmm... Perhaps the NWO as you know it is not the NWO as I know it.

7A



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 01:52 AM
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Originally posted by Echtelion
Anyways don't forget to give me an update on that when you'll be in your tiny concrete cell...


I'd like to add an important point.. I think you meant it the other way around, because you would be considered a terrorist to the NWO for rebelling such a glorious achievement in human history. As for myself, I would be commended with delux lattes and fine treasures for approving and supporting this ever so fantastic idea of a NWO.

7A

[edit on 24-11-2006 by 7Ayreon]



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 02:02 AM
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Sounds like they are trying to create a global network and just hiding it behind the war on terror bull #. If their were really terrorists in the U.S. don't you think they would have done something by now. What would they be waiting for. You know they could get in from mexico with no problems.
No way i'll let them put me in some biometric system.



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 08:01 AM
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I don't think it's that big a deal, alot of Canuckistanians already have passports.

I find the iron curtain thing of American's needing permission to leave their country much more disturbing.

Gobal ID's smack of the mark of the beast, n'est pas? Indubitably they will all be equipped with bar codes, each of which have the electronic number 666 encoded into them. It's the long thicker line at the beginning, in the middle and at the end.

Carbon based life forms have 6 electrons, 6 neutrons and 6 photons. The mark of man.

[edit on 24-11-2006 by clearwater]



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