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Originally posted by soficrow
Excellent find and analysis.
Scary, isn't it?
Apparently they have to know who we are, where we're going and what we're doing to control us more completely.
Only the criminals will be short-circuiting and bypassing the Biometrics.
The government knows that, of course. And they don't care - but are proceeding anyway. Interesting.
Originally posted by Baphomet79
What does that have to do with Global ID's?
I actually approve of the fact that those entering the U.S. have to provide proof of Citizenship instead of a simple Driver's License.
This isn't an invasion of civil liberties; it's simply a good idea.
Having a Passport is nothing new, but I am sure that many will say that it is only another way for Big Brother to track my movements.
Originally posted by Baphomet79
have you visited China recently.
Originally posted by DYepes
I honestly have no problem with a National or even Global
ID. As long as the rules do not say I must mandatorly have my Id on me at all times and show it without justification.
Originally posted by DYepes
The biggest issue most of you have is it may have RFID chips in them. to that I say, if you are not driving, just leave it somewhere when you go about your business. As long as you aint driving, because you need your license to drive anyways, you should never have a problem.
Originally posted by DYepes
Ok, I am not exactly sure what part of my statements you are arguing as for the drivers license, so please clarify.
As far as you telling me the law requires me to show my Id for whatever reason whenever wherever, without warrant to do so, and carry ti at all times? Sorry but I have bot read this in any legislation, and since you are making this claim to try and inform me of the truth, I feel it should be your duty to inform me and point me to a source.
Originally posted by Infoholic
Originally posted by DYepes
I honestly have no problem with a National or even Global
ID. As long as the rules do not say I must mandatorly have my Id on me at all times and show it without justification.
That's just it. You will have to have the National ID on you at all times. If someone (authorative) wants to see your ID for whatever reason (justified or not), and you can't provide it... that can put you in a situation where you cannot prove yourself to be an American citizen. Look the law up, read it, and understand it...
The RFID chip?... As well, per the Constitution, the government has no right what so ever to "track" the American general populous. None.
SEC. 202. MINIMUM DOCUMENT REQUIREMENTS AND ISSUANCE STANDARDS FOR FEDERAL RECOGNITION.
(a) Minimum Standards for Federal Use-
(1) IN GENERAL- Beginning 3 years after the date of the enactment of this division, a Federal agency may not accept, for any official purpose, a driver's license or identification card issued by a State to any person unless the State is meeting the requirements of this section.
(2) STATE CERTIFICATIONS- The Secretary shall determine whether a State is meeting the requirements of this section based on certifications made by the State to the Secretary. Such certifications shall be made at such times and in such manner as the Secretary, in consultation with the Secretary of Transportation, may prescribe by regulation.
Originally posted by jsobecky
It depends what you mean by "track". Does maintaining a database of Social Security numbers equate to "tracking"?
This legislation gives authority to the Secretary of Homeland Security to expand required information on driver’s licenses, potentially including such biometric information as retina scans, finger prints, DNA information, and even Radio Frequency Identification (RFID) radio tracking technology. Including such technology as RFID would mean that the federal government, as well as the governments of Canada and Mexico, would know where Americans are at all time of the day and night.
Originally posted by Infoholic
There isn't one single law ever written that states in it (for example, this one) "you'll have to have this id with you or you'll get arrested/can't come in"... c'mon...
No, it's not in black and white...but here's a pretty close example of what I'm referring to...
< snip >
What that tells me, is "if you don't have identification that 'we' (the feds) approve of, then you are s.o.l." Now as far as where they can ask for it... is there anywhere that, without probable cause, law enforcement cannot ask for your ID? That in it's own is a heated debate here on ATS. Probable cause can be anything they can think of, don't kid yourself on that one.
Now, with that being said... I don't care if you are walking down the street, swimming in the sewers, or driving an ambulance... if you are asked at any time, by authority, for whatever reason, to see your Federal ID (ya know, the only one they deem to fit their own criteria)... and you don't have it... you, jso, are screwed.
Originally posted by Infoholic
Originally posted by jsobecky
It depends what you mean by "track". Does maintaining a database of Social Security numbers equate to "tracking"?
The SSN database was never intended to be a tracking device. The SS card you and I carry does not "communicate with a readable device".
Tracking, as I refer to it, is just that... tracking. The government knowing by satellite surveillance where we are, the government knowing the last book I checked out at the local library, the last time you purchased a box of condoms, the last time Joe Blow got a prescription refilled at the Pharmacy, the last time Jane Doe went to the doctor for a pap smear. That is tracking. That is the information that would be available "eventually" through the National ID.
Originally posted by jsobecky
What you have pointed out are the requirements for a drivers license that meets federal requirements for acceptance by a federal agency. For example, should you want to use your drivers license to use as ID to obtain a federal document such as a passport. Nowhere does it state, imply, insinuate or otherwise suggest that you must carry it at all times, nor does it declare penalties for not doing so.
That is a far cry from your assertion that "You will have to have the National ID on you at all times."
Wrong. If asked for an ID today, it is not a requirement that you supply a drivers license. A bill enacted to federalize the requirements for a drivers license does not change that.
Originally posted by Infoholic
What I pointed out were requirements for a drivers license and/or a Federal ID that will be voluntarily required after May, 2008.
If you don't have either, what do you think the repercussions would be?
As I stated before, if... IF you were asked for your ID (after this bill takes effect) and you cannot provide ample proof (proof them deef fit)... you cannot prove yourself to be an American citizen... thus rendering you an "alien".
If you, having been rendered an "alien", attempt to protest the federal agent that just forbid you access into a "ID requiring area"... you very well could be detained under the USA Patriot Act as "domestic terrorism".