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uk mobile fingerprint unit

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posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 03:07 AM
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several forces around the uk will recieve the new mobile fingerprint device over the next two months. now they can stop anybody and check them instantly against 'real' people and those using false id's apparantly.

i wonder if it is going to be taking the fingerprints FROM everybody they use it on to add them to the database?

story




posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 07:44 AM
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JUSTYC
Yep ive been watching this all morning

This is against our civil liberties, and lets wait and see what happens when people start to reuse this under "civil rights law".

There is no law against using or giving any name and or address you want as so long as it is not for fraudlent or criminal purposes.

This is just an add on to the ID Card scheme and things are gonna get worse.

Fair enough if they have enough prior evidence to suspect someone of "something" then to ask them for this fingerprint, but even a crimanl can decline this and asked to be fingerprinted at the police station.
But to stop people to simply fingerprint them...NO WAY!!

I just wonder what credit card company/ bank/ business is going to be the highest bidder for all our personal information on this BIG BORTHER DATABASE, coz beleive me they will sell it off at somepoint (maybe cloak & dagger sell off) but they will.

They will start like this, by saying their stopping criminals and then it will be back to the old Stop & Search law, once they have that back in force without restrictions they will then be scanning fingerprints under the stop and search law?



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 06:42 PM
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This is my first (of hopefully MANY opinionated) post(s).

I am seriously terrified with all this BB stuff going on, i'm sure you've all seen this video from America.

THIS IS SICK!!!! This made me, irrationally, want to take up arms against the police force, start a civil movement etc.F*****************ING DISGUSTING!!!!!!

In britain, you would get two "bulldogsized" policemen, restle you into the back of a van, not TASER the S*** out of you (knowing this causes at least 1 minute of paralisation), then asking you to get UP!!!???? "or YOU'LL GET TASED AGAIN"!!!!! THE DUDE CANT STAND!!! they end up carrying him out with his knees dragging/in the air, WHEN THEY COULD HAVE DONE THAT ANYWAY TO BEGIN WITH!!

Im sure i dont have to remind you that it was on the news last year, the police were looking at buying tasers for OUR police forces........"F" THAT !!!

There is obviously an "ID" gathering going on.

CONSIDER THIS:
im not sure if any of you have come across this site

www.indymedia.org.uk...

AND IN PERTICULAR THIS ONE

www.leavethemkidsalone.com...

(Like i said this is my VERY FIRST EVER post, so if the links dont work, be nice, and ill sort it out)

The finger printing kids in school thing is WRONG!!
Parents didnt know what had happened untill they asked "so, what did you do at school to day?"?
SO! NOW THINK OF THIS!!, in 40 or so years, when "this genoration is no REAL threat (as such) to the way things are "meant to go" according to certain "groups/world powers"....EVERY YOUNG'N IS GONNA BE DATA-BASED, they know not all of us (wise or unwise to the facts) will say yes to being "stored", so they go for the kids, who dont know to say ANYTHING.
all of this makes me SUPER ANGRY


if those links dont work, just type "leave them kids alone" or "LTKA" and look for the LTKA website.

oh yeah, and please to meet you all, no need to welcome me all at once
(im so happy to be here, speeking to people that know "all is not as it seems".)



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 06:50 PM
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great first post dude.

makes me mad too.


We got to stand and fight this stuff before its way too late for us all.



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 07:11 PM
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Naturally the appalling fact within the story just gets ignored -

At present about 60% of drivers stopped do not give their true identity.

news.bbc.co.uk...

- ........until it's you or one of your loved ones these b*s&@r!s runs down and maims or kills.

Nevermind, it's all just a plot to get you.



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 07:20 PM
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Wicked!! that was a damned quick reply that i wasn't expecting D4RK,ive seen you in quite a few posts and its nice to be recognised by someone you recognise...if yer know what i meen, cheers
.

But seriously, this is all abit frightening, i may be getting a bit big for my boots here (with it being my first/second post and all), but i was thinking it would be a GREAT idea to start some kind of Thread regarding your "Rights" as a citizen.

Im sure there's SOMEONE on ATS (as i have seen/read MANY great researches done by others) that knows the laws applicable to this and many other situations that can be regarded as civil rights.

I tried looking myself but jeeEEEeeese, without knowing "Legaleses" (the evasive form of laguage used by the law firm), its hard to dicifer what the hell yer just read.

Anyone around, fairly well versed in the language of our "so called" law, that could help all us ATS'ers get to grips with what little rights we have left??

Knowledge REALLY IS IMPOWERMENT, thats how the "power" got there in the first place, so the only way we can REALLY change the way things are, is by CHANGING WHAT WE KNOW,and then KNOW THAT WE CAN CHANGE OTHERS AROUND US with what we know..(and DAMN, i know the later is the harder part).

But hey! At least these are interesting times in which we live heh? Ingnorence maybe acceptable to some, but BOREDOM is most CERTAINLY NOT ALLOWED



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 07:45 PM
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sminkeypinkey.

I ttotally get your point. NO ONE is gonna be silly and argue that, i was run down a week before my 13th birthday by a hit n run, so yeah cool....GET THOSE CRIMS!!!

But im worried about the abuse of power, IF THEY INTRODUCE THESE SORT OF ENFORCEMENTS, FINGER-PRINTING, TASERING, WHO!! I REPEAT!!! WHOOOO IS GOING TO REGULATE THE POLICE FORCE!!??

The fingerprinting kids in schools was AND IS founded by the gouvenment, BUT THEY DIDNT GIVE THEM ANYWHER NEEAAARRRR ENOUGH FOR THE SERCURITY. BA(British Airways) spends millions per year on ID security for Airport staff, i think the issue here (and i am by NO means, be-littleing your views), is that this IS THE START OF SOMETHING UN---HEALTHY.

The police to a certain (and in some cases..a MASSIVE) extent have an arrogence problem, and as such, impose thier powers to readerly for my liking.

did you watch...WITHSOUND, the firstlink i put up..... prisonplanet.com...

We may see tasers over here VERY SOON, especially with all the terrorism panic going on.
I there fore have to ask you, how would you like it if you, your mum, son or daughter got subjected to THAT kind of "carmly delt" torture............

And consider this.......if that was a middle-aged, working woman who questioned why she should show her ID as if a suspect to a crime.........
Do you think those DIRTY little cowards would have TASED HER..... no of course not, for one they would have been to scared of the reprocussions...
WHERES THE EQUALITY IN THAT!!!?????



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 07:58 PM
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Originally posted by Anomic of Nihilism
sminkeypinkey.

I ttotally get your point.


- Well thank you.

I made it because it seems as if the other side is rarely, or should I say almost never, considered.


But im worried about the abuse of power


- Well OK.
I can dream up a million abuses that might happen one day myself.

60% giving a false name and disappearing is bound to end up in a perfectly reasonable and very loud public demand for a means to stop that happening.
Like I said at best it is a total loss or years of additional complication in an insurance claim following an accident with one of these criminals or at worse one of these scumbags gets away with (literally) murder.
This is that sought for answer I guess.

I'm in my 40's now and I can recall friends being beaten up by the Police, arrested for no good reason, cops lying to secure convictions etc etc.

It didn't take this new device or a new law and it was happening 30yrs ago to my certain knowledge.

......and what?

S*!t happens, there are cops out there who will do the wrong thing, there always have been.

But I don't think the UK was then or is now becoming the Police state some seem to want to imagine so much because of that behaviour or this new tech
(as anyone who has experienced and knows about a real oppressive Police state could tell you).



[edit on 22-11-2006 by sminkeypinkey]



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 08:58 PM
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Smikeypinkey

You seem very non-plused when you say "s*!t happens"...... S*!t DOES happen, but i REALLY DONT expect ...(well actually i DO expect, but dont want)..it to happen from the very police force that protects us.

its very obvious that we ARE TO BE TRACKED at every turn we make..

THE OYSTER CARD

1: they said here you go, cheap travel, but you have to register your details...people didnt like that...so they said......

2:dont worry, everyone can buy an Oyster Card, dont have to register...and you get cheap travel..mmMMMmm...TASTEY BISCUITS.

3:NOW they're saying.." you have to scan in AND OUT EVERY TIME YOU CHANGE IN YOUR JOURNEY, OR YOU'LL BE CHARGED MAXIMUM FAIR (which has gone up TREBLE to BULLY people on to the OYSTER CARD) so now your tracked on EVERY MOVE YOU MAKE.

4:Before the above statment was made, a few months ago a little idea was introduced that i feel not TOO MANY people heard about, kinda got swept under the carpet and all that. AFTER THE START OF ......2010......., if you want to renew your passport, YOU WILL ONLY BE ABLE RENEW IT WITH A REGESTERED OYSTER CARD.......................WHY!!!!!!!!!

SUDDENLY YOUR TRAPPED IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY WITHOUT YOUR NATURAL BORN RIGHTS TO TRAVEL THE WORLD WITHOUT YOR SODDING OYSTER CARD!!!!
Im 26, and I wanna enjoy this world before it TOTALLY FLIPS out, and all i can see is " HAVE YOU GOT YOUR OYSTER CARD, oh, and can you please get into this make shift coffin and mastibate whilst telling us your most shamefull fantasies... (that was a Skull 'n' Crossbones reference by the way....not me just wierding out)

To me, this all points to the implications that the oyster card IS the BB ID card, being SLOWLY introduced, ESPECIALLY when they quietly backed of the "you HAVE to register" idea realising that people would not go for that.

Believe me, i understand, and it irritates me when people jump on the "Conspiracy" band wagon. tooOOoo much sillyness pollutes sound views and ideas, but there ARE CERTAIN things that are obviously moving us towards a surveillence nation.
It makes sense, population is growing expedientially, gouvenments get scared they cant keep control without subsidizing there power, so, why NOT keep tabs on any and everyone.
I consider myself a citizen of planet earth and all this makes you feel like a "numbered suspect" of planet earth.



posted on Nov, 23 2006 @ 04:50 AM
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Sminkey (hello)
I Think you more than most of us have seen what Police with that little bit of extra power can do to its citizens being in NI.

This fingerprinting WILL NOT stop people getting run over and killed by someone who has no insurence, MOT, or has the right to drive the car.
I lost a very close friend at school by one of these pieces of scum. So i do know how that feels.

Fingerprinting will NOT stop anykind of illegal activity, it wont stop drug dealers running drugs to and from one part of town, it wont stop terrorists moving goods, it wont stop HIT & RUN KILLERS.

The law:
You as a citizen of the UK are no obligated by law to give your name and address at their (police) request.
If you are suspected of a crime or involved in a crime then that is a different matter, but to be stopped in the street and requested to give your True Identity , legaly you DO NOT have to, then it would be upto the Police to decide if you are hiding your I.D. for a reason and then take you to the Police Station to try to accertain your ID.

People may say that if you have nothing to hide (and thats getting really boring now) why worry?
Well as you said Sminkey (as anyone who has experienced and knows about a real oppressive Police state could tell you). This IMO is just the start.

The Authorities last year changed the way you get road tax & MOT and the Police have no longer a need to give you a "7 day wonder" if stopped in your car, (7 days to produce all your documents) they can tell now by staying behind you in their car tap in a few details and WHAM they know if you are :
A) the owner of the car
B) insured to drive said car
c) if the car has road tax

So why on earth would they need this extra bit of power to start fingerprinting people at the road side, if they have none of the above ..its simple arrest them!!!
If any of the items come with a problem ie they are isnured to drive they have got raod tax and they are the owner BUT are wanted for something else, again stop and arrest them.

Why should law abiding people be stopped and have their fingerprints taken at will, why should they have to give their ID to any Police officer who "demands" it, maybe just because you were in the wrong road at the wrong time?
We are already the MOST watched Country on earth (cctv).
This is all going into one big Database, and at some point in the future all our personal information will be sold off to the highest bidder.

I know some if not most people will disagree with most if not all of the points i have made here, but thats what debating is about..isnt it? each person has their own veiw!



posted on Nov, 23 2006 @ 11:11 AM
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The problem at the heart of this is quite simple really IMO.

'We' the gen public don't like paying the level of taxes necessary to do a proper job......and the job currently being funded costs a fortune as it is.

Hence the almost complete disappearance of the cop on the road and the sprouting of cameras everywhere.

Hence the multiplication of 'cloned' number plates etc.

As the article said a huge number of people aren't giving accurate details, undoubtedly some of those people will arouse suspicion, leading to further questioning and then get arrested but plenty don't.
Often the person acting this way is quite plausible and doesn't arouse suspicion so the question of a more thorough check and subsequent arrest never arises.

This device might not stop a crime being committed per se but by properly identifying someone (which may well then lead to the arrest of someone wanted already) they may well stop a later offence as that person concerned might well be caught and taken before the courts on an outstanding charge etc etc.

It's not a matter of being a complete and 100% 'answer' but it is about adding to the 'tools' the cops can use.

The thing is spymaster (hello to you too
), I could show you people convinced the British Police went past the point of proper accountability long long ago.
It's all relative.
Even the British Gov, for instance, thought an arm of the British Police (the old RUC, the NI Police) had at times acted in ways wholly unacceptable and as far back as 1936 a Civil Service report described the NI state as quasi-fascist.

As you say, it's all good debate tho.


[edit on 23-11-2006 by sminkeypinkey]



posted on Nov, 23 2006 @ 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by spymaster
The law:
You as a citizen of the UK are no obligated by law to give your name and address at their (police) request.
If you are suspected of a crime or involved in a crime then that is a different matter, but to be stopped in the street and requested to give your True Identity , legaly you DO NOT have to, then it would be upto the Police to decide if you are hiding your I.D. for a reason and then take you to the Police Station to try to accertain your ID.


Only the other week I was stopped in the street by a patrol car because I had the hood of my jacket up and a scarf round my neck on a freezing cold night...the reason I was given by the officers was "..we want to see your face.." and no other reason was given.
I refused to give my personal details as demanded, on the grounds of undue harrassment and invasion of privacy. Interestingly though, when I counter-demanded that the officers provide THEIR details and warrant-cards to confirm THEIR identities, they refused and threatened me with immediate arrest for 'obstruction'.

I gave the most basic of details of name (using middle name as first name) and address as that was better than being arrested to be fingerprinted and DNA profiled.



posted on Nov, 23 2006 @ 12:08 PM
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Perhaps those of us in the UK who are against these erosions of civil liberties should engage in 'police harrassment'...

If you see a patrol car parked up, take down the registration number, make a vehicular inspection...brake and .lights, indicators, tax-discs..etc. Tap on the window and ask the officer "..is this your vehicle, sir??...can I see your driver's licence please.."

If you see a foot patrol, stop the officer/s and demand their name, rank, and serial numbers and ask to see their warrant cards...just to confirm identity...where they have been and where they are going..

We as citizens have just as much right to do so!!!



posted on Nov, 23 2006 @ 12:21 PM
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Sminkey

(i still havent got the hang of using the quotes so please bear with me and i will address some of you "valid" points that you made)

I fully agree with you when you say:
"'We' the gen public don't like paying the level of taxes necessary to do a proper job......and the job currently being funded costs a fortune as it is."

We both know that there is NOTHING that will stop crime 100% but i think that the level of "tools" given to Authorities should be capped.

Eventually and we have seen this in the past, these "tools" will almost certainly fall into the hands of the criminal underworld, and then what?

You said :
I could show you people convinced the British Police went past the point of proper accountability long long ago.
Sminkey mate , you do NOT have to go any further with that , i know this from personal experience.
IMO you are 100% correct on that mate.

Like i said in my previous post, the Authorities have the technology to be able to perform any form of random check on any person (espeically if travelling in a car) without the need to fingerprint an individual to accertain the said persons identity.

You righly stated that in that particular report 60% of people stopped, failed to give the police their correct ID, whilst that may sound quiet alarming to some, but what the report declined to say was "what the total number of the 60% who declined to give their true ID were actualy convicted of a crime or had been wanted for an outstanding warrent of some sort?

So for arguements sake lets say out of the 60% , 50 % of those were actualy wanted criminals, that means at the least , there is 10% of these persons who would now have their fingerprints stored on BB database, IMO not vey fair for the law abiding citizen.

Its a sad but true fact that you dont see any Police on the street anymore, "the local bobby doing his rounds", the Police stations want to shut their doors when it gets dark? work that one out....its not all about money?

You know my feelings on BB, but that aside, i would prefer to see more police on the streets making our neighbourhoods safe, than to see CCTV on every street corner.
Basically IMO the cameras DO NOT work! they do NOT stop the crime in the first place because there is no-one physically there to stop them from commiting said crime.
Also when they have got a suspect on CCTV commiting a crime, certain CCTV cannot be used as evidence in court.
Again i know this from personal experience.

But im sure the debate will carry on mate lol




posted on Nov, 23 2006 @ 12:50 PM
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TIMSKI:
well to answere acouple of your questions:
The police do NOT have the power (unless under a s60)
s60 would have previously been issued by an INspector and only lasts for 24hrs.
They are governed by the P.A.C.E. Act

They must have reasonable grounds to stop-search people or indeed to ask them to account for their actions, whereabouts etc (stop and account).

You can take action against the individual officer or force if they are stopped searched etc without proper grounds.

However saying the above they could use s44 TACT on stop & search but this is normally used around sensitive buildings.

So i would say that unless you were walking around Parliment the other day when you had your scarf pulled up , they had no right what-so-ever?

The fact that you could have been arrested for "obstruction" well this is the easiest thing in the law to nick someone for.
Ie they tried to identify you because you looked like someone they were looking for you failed to comply..your nicked for obstruction.

Re the asking them for their ID, again you are entitled to do so espicially if they are plain clothed, or are in umarked vehicle.



posted on Nov, 23 2006 @ 07:24 PM
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Its shocking the police, now been able to do this, but the people in this country will just roll over and take it as normal, and say well if you have nothing to hide, why complain as they always say.

Its not about not having nothing to hide, why should people have their fingerprints take, or put on a record if they have done no wrong, isnt it supposed to be innocent until proven guilty.



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 01:52 PM
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ALSO
Think about this
They say they are using them to stop / prevent criminals from motoring fraud or theft
And that by scanning the finger prints they will be able to know if the person is telling the truth or not about who they are
BUT would you need to be on a criminal register list so as any results could be checked against the finger prints
What im saying is that if you have never committed a crime and have never had your prints taken by the police than nothing would come back if or when your are being scanned by this machine RIGHT SO
in order for this machine to be effective it would mean every man , woman and child in England having to have their prints registered and stored onto some database
So you see we may all be forced to have our prints taken in order for this finger print scanning machine to work.



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 04:28 PM
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There is no free country any more, england infringes to many rights, it should be shut down by the UN.



posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by regal
..in order for this machine to be effective it would mean every man , woman and child in England having to have their prints registered and stored onto some database
So you see we may all be forced to have our prints taken in order for this finger print scanning machine to work..


According to
The Telegraph
Blair has already called for the national DNA database to be expanded to include all UK citizens. As from 26 October this year, all passport applicants will have fingerprint and biometric details taken as a matter of course
Add to that the number of schools requiring students' fingerprints, and doing so against the wishes of parents and without parental permission, citing that under the Data Protection Act, only the individuals' (child's) consent is required, regardless of whether a child can appreciate the pros and cons of the identity-data debate...
700,000 children in 3,500 schools in the UK have ALREADY been fingerprinted

edit to add: you can bet that it's only a matter of time before fingerprint and biometric data will be required for all new driving licence applications and renewals, and then they have the vast majority of the populace on a print-database

[edit on 25-11-2006 by timski]




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