92 Year Old Woman Goes Out Shooting When Cops Kick Down the Door(Update)

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posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 09:45 AM
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Wow, I wouldn't most of you people on any kind of jury the way that you just jump to assumptions without knowing the facts. I guess it would make the trial process much shorter - just hand you a newsclipping and let you try and convict someone based on that.
I have to say boo to you, ATS. There has been more and more of this kind of yellow journal editorializing on this site so that it is rapidly becoming another World Nut Daily or India News or Pravda kind of site as far as reliability and denial of ignorance goes.




posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 09:50 AM
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I'm not sure what to think about this article. It sure seems there are a lot of assumptions being thrown around in this thread though. No where in the article does it say they busted her door down. It says she was shooting at them as they approached the house.

I also think it's wrong to assume that the cops just went willy-nilly into this situation. You usually don't get a warrent unless you have some kind of evidence and a good reason to get one. I'm sure they have been investigating this house for awhile.

Just because a person is 92 years old, doesn't mean that they can't commit crimes. Heck, she could have been dealing drugs to supplement her social security. Or maybe she has a kid who is dealing out of the house and it isn't even her.

I think this article leaves too many questions unanswered and only serves to play on emotion. I don't want to pass judgment on either party until more facts come out.



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 10:04 AM
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I know for a fact that police often break down doors with no prior notice, only to say in the official report that notice was given. Particularly in drug busts, as to prevet any flushing or eating of the product.

They don't necessarily go in guns-a-blazing though, unless fired on first. It's a horrible tragidy, but hell, at least her grandkids have something to brag about in a few years (after the grieving is through)



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 11:29 AM
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Has the make my day law. Wasn't long ago a stupid cop did this here and had his innards blown back out the door with a 12 guage. The owner of the home then sued the police department and they bought hm a new door and all charges against the homeowner were dropped. Rule of thumb is cops and criminals are all really stupid, just on opposite sides of the law.



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 11:42 AM
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Originally posted by closettrekkie
No where in the article does it say they busted her door down. It says she was shooting at them as they approached the house.


There were a few times in the article where it said they used force to enter her home:



The woman, Kathryn Johnston, was the only resident in the house at the time and had lived there for about 17 years, Assistant Chief Alan Dreher said. The officers had a legal warrant, "knocked and announced" before they forced open the door and were justified in shooting once fired upon, he said.

[snip]

"My aunt was in good health. I'm sure she panicked when they kicked that door down," Dozier said. "There was no reason they had to go in there and shoot her down like a dog."



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 12:09 PM
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Thanks DJ... I was going to post exactly that.

I would suspect that the neighbourhood was pretty sketchy and Granma had a gun pretty handy as a result. If she's 91, I'd agree with another poster who said she might not have heard the cops "knock and announce" before forcing the door.

And there are many people here who don't think the cops have to announce themselves. Are we, in fact, certain that they did knock and announce? We have only their word for it.

Of course, if it turns out she had a shedload of drugs stashed about the place, then I might have to revise my opinion. But it would really surprise me, as her family denied any connection.

Either way, pretty good going for a woman of 91. She got three of the people busting down her door.



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 12:12 PM
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The Supreme Court ruled that cops don't have to announce themselves if they're entering to prevent a crime. In other words, if they see you doing something, or hear gun shots or something, they don't have to announce.

Otherwise, as far as I know, they have to tell you who they are and give you a couple of seconds to open the door before they come in.

It's really in their own best interest to do so, as we see in this situation.

Most people won't shoot at cops without a damn good reason. There are a lot more people, however, who will shoot at unidentified strangers coming through the door.

The fact that they were in plainclothes makes it even harder to know that they were telling the truth, from the perspective of the citizen. Oftentimes criminals impersonante cops in order to get you to open the door, and then they rob/rape/kill you for your trouble.

So, maybe she was afraid that they were lying about being cops. Just a thought...



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 12:24 PM
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Originally posted by WyrdeOne
So, maybe she was afraid that they were lying about being cops. Just a thought...


Another good point I didn't even think of. She very well could have thought that.

Ever since I read this thread I've had this vision of Granny going out like Tony Montana.



*grenade launcher blast* "How joo like that....huh?!!!"

The World Is Yours Granny. RIP.

Peace



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 12:29 PM
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too bad she didnt use a shotgun.
cops have no business invading a persons home for a victimless crime.
the only reason drugs are illegal is to keep the prisons full.
by the way, it isint a drug WAR untill WE start fighting back.



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 12:32 PM
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Dr Love,
you my friend just made me do the nose milk spray dance all over my key board!



Plain clothes got gunned down by granny ... well sorry until we know she was a violent, terrible drug dealer / mass murderer / terrorist , im sticking to the fact that i applaude granny 100% for going out with boots on guns blazing.

Police need to learn some respect for people, and if its by gun fire at the door step, so be it, cause I can say one thing, you kick my door and start screaming stuff, your going out in a body bag.... But if you knock and ask to come in, of course officers



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 12:52 PM
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I think this incident shows, hands down, that societies approach to drugs is too extreme. Regardless of who or what was going through that house, 3 wounded police officers and one DEAD civilian in the name of a drug bust is IMO not even close to being worth it.

Not to mention the bravado of 'busting' down someones door. This is small scale. Remember Waco?

I think this incident is the epitome of poor judgement, lack of insight, and plain ignorance when it comes to substance use and abuse.

Gramma probably had a gun in her purse. It is not uncommon for older people or anyone for that matter to carry personal protection. Especially women. Small calibers in the purse, seems to be quite the trend.



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 01:01 PM
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Originally posted by elevatedone


I think it would be funny if she turned out to be the drug dealer....




I don't think there is anything about this that is funny. Sorry, but the drug war is a lost cause, and was a stupid idea to begin with. And I don't care if she had 3 million rolls, or a ton of coke, I think this is a great example of another failed policy.



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 01:01 PM
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I only wish I could go to her funeral and pay my respects. She reminds me of the little girl shot down by jack booted thugs in the movie V. Has this woman a name? I feel a song comin
She will now be imortalized as a true American Hero, God willing


Anyone have a address to the family so we can send cards?



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 01:17 PM
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Regardless of whether or not they got the right house, or whether or not she was selling drugs ...

... both parties were right in firing IMO. I have a Great Aunt that lived in a bad section of Cicero (suburb just south of Chicago). She was in her 70s and was hooked up to oxygen because of some lung issues. She carried a weapon on her wheelchair at all times ... she was robbed from her own home twice and couldn't do anything about it because of the stupid oxygen tank prior to owning the weapon. I would have liked to see those bastards come in a third time.

I do not own a weapon but nor am I a homeowner. I would like to think that I would react in the same manner if someone was breaking into my home.

On the flip side, the cops had every right to return fire. They were doing their jobs serving a warrant and were fired upon. It's their job, and part of natural survival instincts, to fire back.

I blame the system ... if they gave no notification and came in in plain clothes and busted down the door with their guns drawn that is not their fault. I would have done the same thing if I was an officer serving that warrant.

It's really sad that, at least from my perspective, this is something that could have been avoided with a few sentences on a piece of paper somewhere in the local, state, or federal government. Just my two lincolns.



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 01:32 PM
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Granny : "Who's there?"
Cops : "It's the police, open up!"

(silence . .as granny loads her gun)

The door suddenly splits open, tearing the hinges out.

Granny : "Hold it right there, you got any badges?"
Cops : "Badges? Badges" We don't need no stinking badges!"

Granny "Eat lead! ( the sound of gunfire . .BAM,BAM,BAM)

...........................................................

Marid Audran : You wouldn't want us on the jury? Being a little hasty aren't you?
Don't put the cart before the horse.
(and by the way, ATS does have a sense of humor)

You go Granny !!!!!!!!



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 01:37 PM
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Let's look at this situation. If a person fires on police before they enter, the cops will run for cover and call SWAT, not try to bust the door in and get shot. Each cop got shot once, 1 shoulder, 1 thigh, 1 arm. Did these bullets graze them or actually enter? Whether it was mistaken identity or not, I bet these cops shot this grandma, realized that they were in deep crap, and decided to inflict some minor wounds to themselves in order to give justification to their shooting of this grandma.



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 01:38 PM
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While it's awful that this happened to a 92 year old woman, who in the most likely case had little idea as to what was going on. She still fired on Law Enforcement Officers, I do not fault the Officers for returning fire....key word returning fire. To repeat the lady likely did not understand what was happening but a 92 year old with a firearm that was spry enough to wound 3 officers.....they killed her in the constraints of the law. Case Closed.



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 01:41 PM
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What's wrong with this picture?

1 - She's 92 years old. The likelihood of her being able or willing to deal drugs is pretty low. Police should have had enough sense to notice that and listen to the neighbors and relatives when they said there were no drugs.

2- Police were plain clothes, why? And how in the world can they expect her to not shoot, if she doesn't know they are police?

3- As someone else said, this was a victimless crime and they shouldn't be breaking down anyone's door for it.

4 - It probably was a mistake. Lord knows this has happened ALOT. Rememeber the old woman they shot and killed in Harlem a year or 2 ago? Same thing, they said she was doing drugs. She was like 73 or something.

5 - Being a 92 y.o. woman what are the chances of her overpowering 3 cops or more? Not much, she's probably pretty frail. The correct thing would be to send over a UNIFORMED (hello) policeman to go and talk with her, take a look around, etc. to determine if they had the right house. Then they could have arrested her on the spot, if need be.

6 - Why didn't the cops identify themselves as police as soon as they saw her shooting? But apparently they didn't, they just shot back. They could have even left the house, called for back up and try to talk to her from outside, like SWAT teams do.

7 - I'll bet you a bunch that the fact that she was black had something to do with it, as far as the cops were concerned.

I'll tell you what, if I'm home alone, and someone I don't know who is not in uniform, comes busting into my home and scaring the bejeezus out of me, I'd sure as hell start shooting with my shotgun. I mean after all, she lives in a rough neighborhood.

It was completely unneccesary for her to to be shot. What this all boils down to is a lack of respect on the part of the police for the citizens they're supposed to be protecting. It happens all the time. I myself have had some legendary horrible experiences at the hands of cops. I'm always polite and courteous to them, but it still happens.



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 01:48 PM
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Originally posted by forestlady
What's wrong with this picture?

1 - She's 92 years old. The likelihood of her being able or willing to deal drugs is pretty low. Police should have had enough sense to notice that and listen to the neighbors and relatives when they said there were no drugs.

2- Police were plain clothes, why? And how in the world can they expect her to not shoot, if she doesn't know they are police?

3- As someone else said, this was a victimless crime and they shouldn't be breaking down anyone's door for it.

4 - It probably was a mistake. Lord knows this has happened ALOT. Rememeber the old woman they shot and killed in Harlem a year or 2 ago? Same thing, they said she was doing drugs. She was like 73 or something.

5 - Being a 92 y.o. woman what are the chances of her overpowering 3 cops or more? Not much, she's probably pretty frail. The correct thing would be to send over a UNIFORMED (hello) policeman to go and talk with her, take a look around, etc. to determine if they had the right house. Then they could have arrested her on the spot, if need be.

6 - Why didn't the cops identify themselves as police as soon as they saw her shooting? But apparently they didn't, they just shot back. They could have even left the house, called for back up and try to talk to her from outside, like SWAT teams do.

7 - I'll bet you a bunch that the fact that she was black had something to do with it, as far as the cops were concerned.

I'll tell you what, if I'm home alone, and someone I don't know who is not in uniform, comes busting into my home and scaring the bejeezus out of me, I'd sure as hell start shooting with my shotgun. I mean after all, she lives in a rough neighborhood.

It was completely unneccesary for her to to be shot. What this all boils down to is a lack of respect on the part of the police for the citizens they're supposed to be protecting. It happens all the time. I myself have had some legendary horrible experiences at the hands of cops. I'm always polite and courteous to them, but it still happens.


I've been arrested before that was subsequently dismissed because it was an accident and I still feel that the Officers were justified in returning fire. It does not matter whether she was white or black or brown or yellow or periwinkle, the lady fired on officers. Put yourself in their position, someone that you can not see for risk of catching one in the chest or head is firing on you and has downed 3 of your fellow officers. Would you hesitate? I know I wouldn't, assuredly I would feel awful when realizing who it was that I had engaged, being a 92 year old woman, but looking at the act you can not say they were not justified.



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 02:19 PM
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That is definitely a strange story, but I don't see how they could mix something up like that. I see how they could get the wrong address, but if this was the case here, how do you pick a 92 year old lady's house? The thing that gets me though, if they really cared about stopping drugs, they wouldn't mess around with these little cases. If our government wasn't making a killing off of drug money, then they would go straight to the source and stop it there. There is no way, especially these days with all of the extra security measures in place that small time smugglers can get as much over here as there is.

I wonder if that woman ever considered being in a shootout with the police, maybe she was sitting there waiting because that's how she wanted to go. At least she went down fighting for what belonged to her.





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