92 Year Old Woman Goes Out Shooting When Cops Kick Down the Door(Update)

Originally posted by kleverone
I hear plenty of Morons on here defending the police, but don't you think they should find out the occupants, their age, maybe take some of that into consideration?

Why find out the age? Are you saying elderly people can't be a threat? Obviously this elderly person was a threat considering she shot 3 people.

Did you not read any of the news articles, or this entire thread, before posting?

A police officer bought drugs from a male at this residence earlier. That is why and how they obtained a search warrant.

Also, it is difficult to see things the way you do when you find it necessary to use insults to get your point across.

Please see my previous post to this thread and honor my request.

Thanks.

Originally posted by craig732

Originally posted by kleverone
I hear plenty of Morons on here defending the police, but don't you think they should find out the occupants, their age, maybe take some of that into consideration?

Why find out the age? Are you saying elderly people can't be a threat? Obviously this elderly person was a threat considering she shot 3 people.

Did you not read any of the news articles, or this entire thread, before posting?

A police officer bought drugs from a male at this residence earlier. That is why and how they obtained a search warrant.

Also, it is difficult to see things the way you do when you find it necessary to use insults to get your point across.

I have not insulted anyone, if I use a word like moron in context than it is not an insult. Please read my other post for the definition. What I have is a justified opinion and if you were read my other posts on this thread you would see that. I explain myself clearly. If I find someone elses view moronic, then I will say so and explain why I do. Age does matter because the human senses begin to deteriorate
such as sight and hearing, which can make it extremely difficult to recognize who is busting down your door. Do you really need that explained to you? Do you live in such a black and white world that you cannot take into account these factors? Please read the above post as well.

Hey Craig let me ask you this? At what point did this woman become a threat? Was it when strangers in plain clothes busted down her door with guns drawn? Or do you think maybe she was the one being threatened and acted accordingly. How many cops did she kill previous to this day?? Yeah she was a BIG THREAT!

You know that she could live in one neighborhood where people do drugs but she may or may not do drugs. Lots of people in america do drugs but for a policemen to suspect someone else in the same neighborhood as a drug addict to do drugs to arrest another person for doing the drugs when they had no physical evidence of him or her doing drugs is plain stupid. If they are following a code that's plain stupid! Plus, you never know how you are going to react to a shooting until you are actually in one, and I want to know what reason the cops had to break into her home.

I think it is pointless now to argue this. For half this thread certain people were saying it was the police fault because the police did not come their in uniform and announced themselves. That is not the case. They had police on their bullet proof vest. They arrived ina police car. They announced themselves. She see them then shot. If she does not have the proper eyesight to read POLICE on the chest of an officer approx. 20ft. away then what business does she have owning a gun and holding a permit.

Here how about those who think the police are idiots tell us what they should of done that would have been plausible.

Originally posted by Quicksilver

Here how about those who think the police are idiots tell us what they should of done that would have been plausible.

There should not be this war on drugs that creates this black market of such a huge scale. They should not be raiding peoples homes for drugs in the first place. Prohibition does not work, crime never solves a vice. Now they are responsible for this womans life. She lived 92 years to have this happen. Not good. This is a shameful thing to happen in America.

I dont care if they had a red overhead light on each of there heads with a siren going, they should not have been going in that old womans home. No shooting 92 year old women in their homes for drugs.

[edit on 23-11-2006 by LoneGunMan]

So you would rather have a country of peopel who are all hyped up and are killing themselves because of the drugs??? Should their be no enforcement on illegal drugs????

Originally posted by LoneGunMan

Originally posted by Quicksilver

Here how about those who think the police are idiots tell us what they should of done that would have been plausible.

There should not be this war on drugs that creates this black market of such a huge scale. They should not be raiding peoples homes for drugs in the first place. Prohibition does not work, crime never solves a vice. Now they are responsible for this womans life. She lived 92 years to have this happen. Not good. This is a shameful thing to happen in America.

I dont care if they had a red overhead light on each of there heads with a siren going, they should not have been going in that old womans home. No shooting 92 year old women in their homes for drugs.

[edit on 23-11-2006 by LoneGunMan]

Would you like for us to just let the dealers go on about their business?

well.............


Anyone knocking down my door in the middle of the night w/o identifying themselfs as police are going to catch a hollowpoint

Originally posted by uuhelpus
well.............


Anyone knocking down my door in the middle of the night w/o identifying themselfs as police are going to catch a hollowpoint

You are the 1 millionth person to say that congradulations you win my sarcasm.

But really I agree with you on that point but that had nothing to do with what I was saying.

Originally posted by kleverone
Hey Craig let me ask you this? At what point did this woman become a threat? Was it when strangers in plain clothes busted down her door with guns drawn?

The description of them being in plainclothes is very misleading.

They were wearing outer garments with the word police imprinted on the front.

I would say she became a threat when illegal drugs were sold to the police from that home before the warrant was obtained. Anyone inside a home where illegal activity is taking place is a threat.

Originally posted by Quicksilver
So you would rather have a country of peopel who are all hyped up and are killing themselves because of the drugs??? Should their be no enforcement on illegal drugs????

What makes you think that if drugs were legal everyone would be all hyped up on them and killing themselves?

Anyone who wants drugs now can get them now, anytime they want, regardless of what enforcement is being done.

It would make no difference whatsoever if they were legal, except that the government cash machine would lose a lot of money.

Originally posted by Quicksilver
So you would rather have a country of peopel who are all hyped up and are killing themselves because of the drugs??? Should their be no enforcement on illegal drugs????

This is a medical issue, not one of crime. You do the same thing we are doing with cigarettes we educate people. The people that do drugs are not deterred by legality. They do not care if it is legal; the only thing making it illegal does is creating an uncontrolled black market.

Who do you think is more likely to sell drugs to your kids? A drug dealer that is already committing a crime, or a store clerk that could face life for selling to a minor. It is as simple as that. You have been lied to about the drug war and you should educate yourself about it.

Originally posted by denythestatusquo
Uh what happened to tear gas folks? Is there not supposed to be police dogs too?

Is this the wild west now?

Cops should resort to the least violent method to do their job instead of freaking out and losing it.

Many cops are chickens and too afraid to get hurt so they freak when they think that they may come into harm in a situation. I don't like those kinds of police.

So we will assume they are chickens when the don't put two in the chest and one in the head for a perpreator...but they are gun-slinging conservative cowboys if they actually fire back?

Originally posted by LoneGunMan

Originally posted by Quicksilver
So you would rather have a country of peopel who are all hyped up and are killing themselves because of the drugs??? Should their be no enforcement on illegal drugs????

This is a medical issue, not one of crime. You do the same thing we are doing with cigarettes we educate people. The people that do drugs are not deterred by legality. They do not care if it is legal; the only thing making it illegal does is creating an uncontrolled black market.

Who do you think is more likely to sell drugs to your kids? A drug dealer that is already committing a crime, or a store clerk that could face life for selling to a minor. It is as simple as that. You have been lied to about the drug war and you should educate yourself about it.

I think you need to educate yourself How exactly is this a medical issue? In the city I used to work in we had a big problem with drugs the unemployment rate was 34% and people were breaking in too houses and mugging people to get money for their drugs (mostly accela and crack coc aine) as soon as we started raiding the drug house and hiring informants we managed to all but cuts the amount of burglaries and armed robberies by 71% (in the process we arrested 291 people). But legal deterence does work.

Sadly, I know this woman. She traveled through NC and Atlanta with a group of women preachers, my granny was one of them. They spoke God's word on the street and asked for nothing in return.

The ladies would set out for about a month or so and you wouldnt see them. They would come back with TONS of money in the seam of the tail of their dress. Hell, maybe granny was out pushing drugs with her HA!.

But seriously, her niece hangs with pure trash, always has. They were with the impression the nieces bf lived there and thats whom the warrants were for.

I am an attorney so I wont go into all of my legal bull#. I will simply leave you with a link regarding where our Supreme Court rides the fences on unannounced raids. As with everything... millions of loop holes and 'as ifs' but it gives you the Law.

Protect yourself from he Police and tech your kids they arent ALL good just because they wear a uniform. In the yrs I practiced, from my experience, 80% of police officers are of the same cloth: Pushed around as kids, ego problems until that belt goes on then they worsen, my point... Cops are a breed in and off themselves. Programmed to take from us as much as they can yet help us as little as possible.

They are here to fine you as to richen the counties pot. Call them when you need them and YOU run the risk of getting locked up. I have had it happen. To me. After my ex beat me up. I returned the favor. Being a mean Indian, he got the worst end of the deal so I GOT locked up. He beat the crap out of me first though.

Didnt mater to them my eyes where too black. he didnt go to jail. Got to love the good ol buddy system here in America, huh?

They didnt know who or what I was so I revealed in it and let it all come into fruition when we got downtown. They get really ansty when they realize they are messing with someone whom knows their rights, laws and statutes. And they hate you for it. Whats that tell you?

For domestic violence, it is a MANDONTORY 24 hour cool down period. I was out within two hours. Explain that? I can. They were crapping themselves for how they handled my situation. After all, people in nice houses dont fist fight! Yeah right.

Call them when you REALLY need them and they come after they finish their lunch. No rush.

To be safe from police, you MUST know the law. The police ARE NOT here to protect YOU.

To serve and protect... thats a JOKE. To ticket and fine should be the motto.

I went to school, I know my rights as a former criminal defense attorney and Im here to tell you now, I WOULD HAVE SHOT THEM ONE BY ONE AS THEY ENTERED TOO. She did the right thing and she didnt do it out of malice. She did it out of pure spirit! You go girl!

They didnt even have IDENTIFICATION AS SIMPLISTIC AS A UNIFORM. Sorry, Im mad about this. I knew this lady when I was a little girl.

Why did this horrid thing happen? God needed an angel in Heaven. Dont read much more into it because to look for an answer is useless. There is no answer because they is NO EXCUSE!

Here is the link regarding the Supreme Courts position on home invasions because thats exactly what they are.

www.cato.org...

From Article:

It's bad enough when the police serve a no-knock warrant at the wrong place. But this is not regular service of a warrant. No-knock raids are typically carried out by masked, heavily armed SWAT teams using paramilitary tactics more appropriate for the battlefield than the living room. In fact, the rise in no-knock warrants over the last 25 years neatly corresponds with the rise in the number and frequency of use of SWAT teams. Eastern Kentucky University criminologist Peter Kraska, a widely cited expert on the "militarization" of domestic police departments, estimates that the number of SWAT team deployments has jumped from 3,000 a year in the early 1980s to more than 40,000 a year by the early 2000s.

[edit on 24-11-2006 by Little One]

The only reason I became a police officer is because I wanted to protect people, I wanted to help people, and most of all I wanted to make the world a better place. I have never been so offended. I will agree not all officers are honest, but I would say 75% are aat least the ones in Virginia are.

Maybe I live in a movie world, but I would think that getting some intel on a place you are going to raid would make a lot of sense, if only to get a better picture of what you were dealing with.
Someone asked why should knowing the ages of the people that may be in the house matter...
Well, what if there were 5 small children in the house?
And isn't that what survailance is for? ONE purchase was made, (supposedly) at that house, There is no evidence that this was a regular drug spot, from the news releases. Believe me, the poilce KNOW where the regualr drug spots are.
Let's look at some of the things that typically happen as you age.
Your hearing dulls. That is why many older people wear hearing aides, IF they can afford them.
Your vision dulls. I don't know that there are many 92 y/os with pilot's liscences.
Your body slows down. It might take you 5 minutes to go from one end of your house to another.
BASIC intel would have told the police that there was a 92 y/o in that house with a registered gun.
From THERE, they should have proceeded.
There is no evidence that she 1) SAW that there were police units outside her house. If anything, I would imagine, if she were concerned enough to have a gun, she probably kept her curtains drawn. 2)SAW that the indruders that broke through her door had POLICE stenciled on there clothes, and 3) HEARD them screaming POLICE as they kicked in her door, or more likely used a battering ram.
There has been an increase of home invasions, and I can well imagine her being worried enough to have her gun very close to her, ESPECIALLY when she was in the house BY HERSELF.
I can imagine hearing inteliable yelling, and thumping at her door, before it was knocked in, and doing what she could to defend herself.
If you are not TRAINED, (and even when you are) the surge of adrenaline through your system can cause you to NOT see what is right in front of your face, you are in fight or flight, and 92 year old heavy set women and not fleeing too many places.
This was a tragedy.
Both Mrs.Johnston, and the police both thought that they needed to defend themselves with deadly force. That is the world we live in today. Does anyone remember Demolition Man?
Quote, I'm a cop, I'm not trained to deal with this kind of violence. unquote.
But the police would not have put her or themselves in that position, of they has done BASIC INTELLIGENCE!
You approach a dwelling differently when you know there to be guns in the residence.
And I do not put it past the police to have planted drugs there, to prove their case.
I'm used to hearing from jump what was recovered, and how much in the news when the story breaks.
As it was, when I first heard the story, we were told drugs were NOT found in the home.
Not the the media is infalible.

Grandma, MUCH respect to you.

I've found more articles describing what happened in the situation.

Facts from the new articles:

- An undercover agent purchased drugs from the woman's home, from a man they named "Sam," before they raided her home. A man believed to be in his 30's, who's relation to the elderly woman has not yet been released.

- The police officers did not knock on the door. They did call out to the woman to open the door. they performed a "no knock" search warrant.

- After killing the woman, the police found "drugs" in her home, which are still being tested in the lab to confirm what type of drugs.

- One officer was shot in the leg and face, one in the leg alone, and the other in the arm.

- The officers wore plain clothes, carried riot shields and wore bullet proof vests.

- The elderly woman carried a revolver, which is presumed to have wounded the officers.

- The woman's closest surviving family member is her 75-year-old niece.

Here are the new articles:

Here

here

[edit on 25-11-2006 by DJMessiah]