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We are all being taken for a ride!

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posted on Nov, 21 2006 @ 11:54 PM
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Of course we are entitled to a little "truth" every now and then.

The problem though is in that WE are not the ones that get to decide when and to whom such "truth" might be revealed.

For 13 years I never new the "truth" of alcoholism. Then I got drunk for the first time. Then I searched for further "truths".

My point is that at each stage I was not prepared at all for the "truths" that I found. Some I wish I had never found.

With age we hope comes wisdom.

With wisdom comes patience.

Humans do not do patience very well at all.

We rush toward our own destruction each time.

Society rises and falls. Countries, States, Nations,

None of it survives because we humans are created equal but we nonetheless persist in refusing to live as equals.

Each wishes to be more, have more, know more, or do more than his neighbor.

The only way that is possible is through politics.

By surrendering our free will to governments we elevate others to dictate how all shall live then those above or sometimes within refuse to follow the rules.

That causes conflict. Which causes war. Which causes death and destruction.

As an Alien sentinent species would you wish to live among such stupid beings?

We are an unruly mob of children.

Always have been. Probably always will be.

We have been placed in our little sandbox where we can only inflict harm unto ourselves.




posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 04:41 AM
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Originally posted by incunabula
The book of thoth site link was more for the common denominator and not so much the zeta reticulan references as opposed to the fact that there are similarities to the fashion in how the stories are told.


I don't think you quite took my point. The reason I picked out the ZR references is because they're the most obvious and easiest to explain. The fact that there are similarities in how the stories are told means nothing in and of itself. All it means is that the information is out there and available for people to access and retell, spicing it up however they want. If you pay attention to how, over time, information comes out and is woven into what post-modernists refer to as the "discourse", you will avoid the trap of connecting things merely because they share common themes.


As for wingmaker's I don't think it's all an obvious fake because i took the time to read it and it tells the same story from a different perspective, albeit an intelligent one.


Again, telling the same story, as I've already said, is no guarantee that you're getting anything but a more (or less) imaginative re-hash of what has gone before, spiced up with some new stuff.

I came across the Wingmakers site years ago and immediately smelled fakery. I should actually clarify: the reason I can't read it is that it's just so badly written. It reads like a really second-rate novel, and I just lose the will to live after more than a paragraph of that stuff. Plus, I know from the context (it's kind of an "art project" too) that I'm not really going to get any usable new data from it. Why waste your time with that stuff at all? And, surprise, it tells the same story. That's because it's drawing from the same sources.

And I really wish people would stop expecting to find "the truth". The truth is, simply, not "out there". I know from my own personal experience that even simple questions like "did A sleep with B?" simply cannot be answered unless you were one of only two people in the world. Think about it. (I used to work on a cruise ship that was rife with gossip. It's a close, 24/7 environment in which people are really living in each others' pockets. When some of my colleagues made claims about two people that became "fact", I noticed that, actually, there was no way of really telling unless both of the people admitted it - which didn't happen. It was kind of a simple lesson in how information works.) Blow that up a brazillion times and you have a conspiracy. How are you EVER gonna know?


John Lear, and i speak without knowing the man, has accomplished what he has for reasons only he know's, what i'm more interested in is that one minute he discusses that disclosure might happen from a fake serpo-ish like standpoint and next i see him on with the whole project camelot gang-that is also now linked to wingmaker's story. catch my drift?


The thing I get from reading his posts is that he's a smart guy who's prepared to put his opinions and what information he has out there, take it or leave it. At no time have I picked up the kind of moneymaking vibe I get from the slick Wingmakers stuff which is designed to pique your interest (and fails miserably for this reader, I might add) and draw you in.

Like all of us, JL is human, can get testy at times, and might be deceived by disinfo. He is also, unlike most of us, likely to be the target of disinfo because he is connected and respected. Any disinfo that "they" (whoever THAT is) can get him to spread will be a bonus.

Part of the trick is getting to understand that things that look alike are not necessarily connected, or at least not in the way you think they are.

[edit on 22-11-2006 by rich23]



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 08:04 AM
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Another thing I have to say is in defence of John Lear.

I've been reading about 9/11 ever since it happened. John Lear is an experienced pilot and the only person to point out, in detail, the flaws in the assumption that the Pentagon plane was piloted by a barely competent student.

He alerted me to what is sometimes called the ground effect.

There was a thread here recently that reminded me of this, because it featured the "plane" pictured in the referenced Wiki article.

When a plane comes into land, lift is suddenly and massively increased when it gets close to the ground. This is called "ballooning" and is much, much more powerful on a large aircraft than on the Cessnas flown by the alleged hijackers in their training.

Note that the way to avoid ballooning is to reduce the airspeed to close to stalling speed. The Pentagon aircraft (whatever it was) did not do that.

The Pentagon plane allegedly flew entirely close enough to the ground for this phenomenon to have a profound effect. Too profound for a student pilot to deal with at 500 or so knots. The plane should have ballooned over the wall of the Pentagon.

If he were a disinfo agent, why would he reveal that?

He also asserts that the planes we thought we saw were actually holographically generated. I'm not sure I go with that. But the ground effect thing checks out, and makes sense, and is yet another nail in the coffin of the official 9/11 myth.

The most obvious (to me, at least) possibilities about the "holographic planes" deal are:


  • John Lear is correct, that's how it happened
  • he's right about the technology existing, but the solution was deemed too costly or risky
  • he believes what he's been told, but it's disinfo put out there to discredit the truth movement
  • he's lying.


If it were the last of these, why would he draw attention to the ground effect, ah, effect? It doesn't make sense that he's lying. That leaves the other three possibilities, the likelihood of which hinge on how far a., techonologocally speaking, of what's publicly available, you think the "secret government" is.

At the moment, I lean towards option 3 but I'm more than happy to accept I could be very, very wrong on this... and in no way do I want to suggest that I think JL's a fool, because from his posts, that's not the impression I get. It's more an expression of my incredulity about the technology and the elaborateness of the operation than anything else.


[edit on 22-11-2006 by rich23]



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 08:44 AM
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I feel this is an important thread if for no other purpose than being able to vent a little. There is no short way to learn about most things that evolve over time. In this case the subject EBEs/UFOs information is mixed with Junk such as disinfo, misinfo and tall tales made from a basic truth.

It's a long road and many have been on it for years without knowing what the EBE/UFO reality or non reality is to this point on the climb. If nothing else, seems to me these people have become more wise at finding the flags to become skeptical of any particular report, pic or video. It saves time.

For me, on this subject, ATS and it's Members are a help to my research interests. As so many of you bring back Ideas and Information that helps me in my personal search for the truth concerning EBE/UFO reality or non reality.

Dallas



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 09:23 AM
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Originally posted by Imzadi
Be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.


This is probably the closest to my thought process. I have my own personal experiences and can find a little truth in some of the bigger UFO extravaganzas that have happened. However, If you build a mound of lies over a little truth, you have successfully buried it. Be careful not to confuse personal beliefs with "the messenger".



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 10:17 AM
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Fantastic thread. The most thought provoking, honest, and worthwhile thread I've read on these boards for some time.

I, too, felt that I couldn't stand by and be another random viewer of this thread.

Who knows what is going on? Truths buried under lies, lies dressed up with truths... the average person, no matter how hard they look, cannot possibly figure these issues out. Because of a massive conspiracy? Or, because some people have found out how to manipulate those that are interested in the subject. Feed us exactly what we want, get us interested, and string us along. I suppose this would be a conspiracy, but how big? At what level?

There are those of us that would treat the issue of UFO/EBE's as the most important thing in our lives. Some of us simply connect with that idea at a very basic, very strong level. But there are plenty of smart, resourceful people who know exactly how we feel and know how to use this against us.

Why? I don't know.

Some say to keep an open mind about everything. Others say to disregard what seems obviously fake in order to save ones time/energy/sanity. Nobody knows what to do. Nobody knows where to start. None of us knows what the truth is.

And yes, finding life shattering meanings in blown up smudges of zoomed in satellite images, to me, seems like an obvious waste of time. I've been lurking here for a long time, and it seems to me that sometimes Mr. Leer is intentionally luring people into discussing ridiculous concepts. Not too many concepts seem ridiculous to me, but those pictures and highlights on that moon pictures thread are getting downright absurd.



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 11:42 AM
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Originally posted by andersonglkThere are those of us that would treat the issue of UFO/EBE's as the most important thing in our lives.


There are everyday issues we all have to deal with. But I personally feel it's one of the big questions, and when you look at the mainstream media's treatment of this issue, it's utterly inadequate.


Some say to keep an open mind about everything. Others say to disregard what seems obviously fake in order to save ones time/energy/sanity. Nobody knows what to do. Nobody knows where to start. None of us knows what the truth is.


Which is why it's important to me not to get too attached to issues of "truth". Inconsistency, that's another matter, because it can reveal obvious falsehood.


... it seems to me that sometimes Mr. Leer is intentionally luring people into discussing ridiculous concepts. Not too many concepts seem ridiculous to me, but those pictures and highlights on that moon pictures thread are getting downright absurd.


Having looked at a lot of the pictures, I can really see your point of view on this. However, I have seen enough witness testimony (through the Disclosure Project and other channels) and frankly dodgy smudged photographs to convince me that NASA does indeed cover up their interactions with, and photographic evidence of, unknown objects. It's therefore not unreasonable to suppose that there are sites on the moon that could show evidence of this... and so looking for them's ok.

I also admit my ignorance of photo-interpretation. From the little I understand, it's quite an art form and the trained eye can spot structures and forms that I certainly would pass by. Consequently, I reserve judgement on the moon photos thing... although some (few) of the structures that they claim on that thread seem plausible enough to me.

There are a number of threads on this forum about spotting disinfo. You might find it interesting to take a stroll through them. I haven't looked at any for a while, but I have found them very worthwhile and thought-provoking, and they certainly influence how I interpret the actions of certain other posters.



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 12:51 PM
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Without question we know that contact has been made and something is being covered up. We have read or heard the best credible information available, or indeed seen a UFO (I know someone who saw one landing in a meadow near where I live). The notion of on-going contact leaves a lot of room for the imagination to run wild.

You have to take it all with a pinch of salt. I might of been persuaded by a lot of it when I was younger and in high school. Its just enjoyable reading even when you suspect it must be fiction. We are the kind of person who likes to wonder.



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 01:06 PM
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Originally posted by andersonglk



And yes, finding life shattering meanings in blown up smudges of zoomed in satellite images, to me, seems like an obvious waste of time. I've been lurking here for a long time, and it seems to me that sometimes Mr. Leer is intentionally luring people into discussing ridiculous concepts. Not too many concepts seem ridiculous to me, but those pictures and highlights on that moon pictures thread are getting downright absurd.



Thanks for you thoughts andersonglk. Here is a colorized version of the Bucket Excavator behind the 'Keep'.



You can enlarge the original NASA picture and see it for yourself! Does this look like one of your referenced 'blown up smudges'?

Thanks again for your thoughts.



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by Cabanman
Yes I think that all of these guys have some form of disinformation operation going on. They say the dumbest things and then expect the weak minded to believe in this junk. They also seem to lead the NEW blood (young to be ufologists) in to a world of madness where no one can trust anyone. Most of the junk you read about ET having special agreements with our government is Bunk.

These are stories made up by these men in GRAY SUITS to confuse, and ridicule the topic of UFOs.

Most of what is said is junk, fake, ridiculous and outrageous. They do this on purpose so that your subconscious takes charge and disregards the whole topic all together. Beware of these men in GRAY, the say half-truths and lead people to a pitfall.




Most of the junk you read about ET having special agreements with our government is Bunk.

Without proof, how can you prove the above statement is not disinformation?

Yes I think that all of these guys have some form of disinformation operation going on.

thank you for your opinion.


Most of the junk you read about ET having special agreements with our government is Bunk.

Without proof, how can you prove the above statement is not junk?

Most of the junk you read about ET having special agreements with our government is Bunk. Most of what is said is junk, fake, ridiculous and outrageous.

thank you for your opinion.


Most of the junk you read about ET having special agreements with our government is Bunk.

Without proof, how can you prove the above statement is not fake?

Most of what is said is junk, fake, ridiculous and outrageous.

thank you for your opinion.


Most of the junk you read about ET having special agreements with our government is Bunk.

Without proof, how can you prove the above statement is not ridiculous?[

Most of what is said is junk, fake, ridiculous and outrageous.

thank you for your opinion.


Most of the junk you read about ET having special agreements with our government is Bunk.

Without proof, how can you prove the above statement is not outrageous?

Most of what is said is junk, fake, ridiculous and outrageous.

thank you for your opinion.


Most of the junk you read about ET having special agreements with our government is Bunk.

Without proof, how can you prove the above statement is not bunk?

Most of the junk you read about ET having special agreements with our government is Bunk.

thank you for your opinion.


Most of the junk you read about ET having special agreements with our government is Bunk.

Without proof, how can you prove the above statement is not meant to confuse?

These are stories made up by these men in GRAY SUITS to confuse, and ridicule the topic of UFOs.

thank you for your opinion.


Most of the junk you read about ET having special agreements with our government is Bunk.

Without proof, how can you prove the above statement is not meant to ridicule?

These are stories made up by these men in GRAY SUITS to confuse, and ridicule the topic of UFOs.

thank you for your opinion.


Most of the junk you read about ET having special agreements with our government is Bunk.

Without proof, how can you prove the above statement is not the dumbest thing?

They say the dumbest things and then expect the weak minded to believe in this junk.

thank you for your opinion.


Most of the junk you read about ET having special agreements with our government is Bunk.

Without proof, how can you prove the above statement is not a half-truth?

Beware of these men in GRAY, the say half-truths and lead people to a pitfall.

thank you for your opinion.


Most of the junk you read about ET having special agreements with our government is Bunk.

Without proof, how can you prove the above statement is not leading people to a pitfall?

Beware of these men in GRAY, the say half-truths and lead people to a pitfall.

thank you for your opinion.

What is an opinion?



[edit on 22-11-2006 by Esoteric Teacher]


JSR

posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 03:16 PM
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now that is a fancy one-liner!



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 03:30 PM
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What is an opinion?

www.abovetopsecret.com...'



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 04:01 PM
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Originally posted by Cabanman

The purpose of these agents is to drain the researcher’s energy; they will give out truths mixed with fantasy and lies. The material they have is loaded with disinfo on purpose so that the researcher loses precious time and this gives the agents leeway to fix whatever leaked. These agents come specifically with agendas that were prepared by psychologists and other behavioral scientists that are almost full proof. They come to harm you in the worst way. The want to destroy what makes you different from the rest; they want to destroy the ones who have woken up from the dream. The ones that know that we are not alone, and that we are indeed being visited by Extraterrestrials.



yes, i agree this is their intention, but let me add my own heresy if you don't mind:


The high & mighty appearance, their 60-70 years (in fact it's at least 2 centuries if not more) .start (which can't be possibly negated - lol imagine theInka's .start on the Europeans!), the impeccability of science - all are just PR !

sure they have a few advantages of their own, but the most devastating weapon is molding peoples' minds into something that is either too afraid or too naive to resist or even understand.

That's the dead giveaway, imho, any story which revolves around total surveillance, complete power, infallibility and technological superiority which gets more overwhelming with every post, is designed to frustrate everyone. They've got experience and they've got time and all the money in the world (its current form is their invention, after all), we cannot win if we try to be like them or simply accept their implicit standards.

but that's not what we want anyway, is it ?

PS: tbh, what you describe once got me very very close to quitting, at least once.

[edit on 22-11-2006 by Long Lance]



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 05:05 PM
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Originally posted by rich23

Originally posted by incunabula
The book of thoth site link was more for the common denominator and not so much the zeta reticulan references as opposed to the fact that there are similarities to the fashion in how the stories are told.


I don't think you quite took my point. The reason I picked out the ZR references is because they're the most obvious and easiest to explain. The fact that there are similarities in how the stories are told means nothing in and of itself. All it means is that the information is out there and available for people to access and retell, spicing it up however they want. If you pay attention to how, over time, information comes out and is woven into what post-modernists refer to as the "discourse", you will avoid the trap of connecting things merely because they share common themes.


As for wingmaker's I don't think it's all an obvious fake because i took the time to read it and it tells the same story from a different perspective, albeit an intelligent one.


Again, telling the same story, as I've already said, is no guarantee that you're getting anything but a more (or less) imaginative re-hash of what has gone before, spiced up with some new stuff.

I came across the Wingmakers site years ago and immediately smelled fakery. I should actually clarify: the reason I can't read it is that it's just so badly written. It reads like a really second-rate novel, and I just lose the will to live after more than a paragraph of that stuff. Plus, I know from the context (it's kind of an "art project" too) that I'm not really going to get any usable new data from it. Why waste your time with that stuff at all? And, surprise, it tells the same story. That's because it's drawing from the same sources.



John Lear, and i speak without knowing the man, has accomplished what he has for reasons only he know's, what i'm more interested in is that one minute he discusses that disclosure might happen from a fake serpo-ish like standpoint and next i see him on with the whole project camelot gang-that is also now linked to wingmaker's story. catch my drift?


The thing I get from reading his posts is that he's a smart guy who's prepared to put his opinions and what information he has out there, take it or leave it. At no time have I picked up the kind of moneymaking vibe I get from the slick Wingmakers stuff which is designed to pique your interest (and fails miserably for this reader, I might add) and draw you in.

Like all of us, JL is human, can get testy at times, and might be deceived by disinfo. He is also, unlike most of us, likely to be the target of disinfo because he is connected and respected. Any disinfo that "they" (whoever THAT is) can get him to spread will be a bonus.

Part of the trick is getting to understand that things that look alike are not necessarily connected, or at least not in the way you think they are.

[edit on 22-11-2006 by rich23]


Ok i think i need to clear up some info Rich23, first off I'm not here to discuss and try and figure out "truths" in the matter of extra-terrestrials and if they come from zeta constellation or even my backyard, the point i'm trying to put across is the matter pertaining to who the people spreading these stories are and why they are doing what they do.

I care if a fifteen year old comes on this site and reads " reptilians live underground and are gonna eat you!" that boy or girl will tell they're best buds and will look like a fool because they won't be able to explain it correctly due to lack of factual information. that is a major problem for the future of truth.

As for john Lear, I mention him because he knows these people and if you are right and I know he is an intelligent man, then he either knows what's up or like you say he is fed disinfo and in turn shares it with us and the rest of truth seekers. In a way i should have left his name out of it seeing as how he commands a certain respect on this forum and even from me.

That James Casbolt guy is gaining momentum, and if he is full of it, then it would be nice to throw a major stick in his wheels and watch him tumble.

As for Wingmakers, I was very interested in the interviews not the 'read the beautiful story and buy our self-help cd's and paintings' pitch.

Trust me, I'm not expecting any earth shattering help here, nor am i expecting to come to a conclusion right this moment on this matter.



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 05:29 PM
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Most of the junk you read about ET having special agreements with our government is Bunk.

Without proof, how can you prove the above statement is not disinformation?


[edit on 22-11-2006 by Esoteric Teacher]

Mr. or Ms. Esoteric Teacher. If you want to believe that our gov indeed has an agreement with ET then you must be the most ignorant and gullible person I have met. I hope that if you have kids, they smarten up and don't follow your steps.


I have no proof to prove it, but I have an open mind and really good common sense. I'll tell you this, there are some things in life that are so obvious that need not to prove it true. Example: Putting a loaded gun to my . and pulling the trigger will kill me. Should I prove it true? Should I try and prove that if I pull the trigger it does not kill me?

You are just pissed because some members in this forum are quicker and more open minded than you. Don't hate the player, hate the game. Wake up kiddo, there is a lot of disinformation out there and you obviously are eating it all up with ketchup. Um.... Tasty isn’t it?


And yeah, put that one down as my opinion too



[edit on 22-11-2006 by Cabanman]



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 06:43 PM
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Originally posted by Cabanman

Most of the junk you read about ET having special agreements with our government is Bunk.

Without proof, how can you prove the above statement is not disinformation?




Mr. or Ms. Esoteric Teacher. If you want to believe that our gov indeed has an agreement with ET then you must be the most ignorant and gullible person I have met.


When have we met? or is this your opinion, too?



You are just pissed because some members in this forum are quicker and more open minded than you.


Where?



Don't hate the player, hate the game.


What justifies hate? Why should i hate the game? What is the game?



Wake up kiddo, there is a lot of disinformation out there and you obviously are eating it all up with ketchup. Um.... Tasty isn’t it?


I do consume disinformation, and regurgitate truth.



And yeah, put that one down as my opinion too



But, you don't even know what your opinion is!


WHAT IS YOUR OPINION MADE FROM?


[edit on 22-11-2006 by Esoteric Teacher]



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 08:18 PM
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Ok here's is some information i came across that serves as a beacon of light in this mess of supposed disclosure coming from numerous sources.

The person who brought this to light is a man by the name of Ed Komarek and apparently he is well connected in the field.He states that a handful of people pretending to be NSA agents are engaged in illegal activity on the internet (and yes he gives names,some already mentioned earlier). It relates to ET,UFO,disclosure hoaxes that may soon be investigated by the FBI.Thank god for people like him. These people have or are circulating standard US Government non disclosure documents to continue milking cash from most of the truth seekers by perpetrating hoaxes. He explains this much better.

www.ufodigest.com...



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 11:46 PM
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Interesting read about Ed Komarek.

For along time I have been suspecting that there are "trollers" who continually surf the net looking for material and ideas that they can skim off of the top, repackage , and then sell to the gullible public as their own.

In my experience I have seen several original ideas of mine in others own works that they claim and profit from.

The thing is though.......While I find these bottom feeder types VERY repugnant; They are at least stealing a message that might otherwise go unheard.

Point in case...... I used to play music and have written several songs.
None of those songs have ever been published.

Why? The reason is that my PERFORMANCE of them is not that talented.

Would I care if Garth Brooks stole one and made a million dollars off of it?

No ....Not really. The reason is that by the THEFT ALONE he would have validated my work. People rarely steal anything that has little, or no value.

That is a large problem with intellectual property in the world today.

It is hard to prove that something that you have developed and brought into focus is really yours. The thing is that in order to bring it into the public arena you have to expose it SOMEWHERE. That is the problem. Unless you have millions to fight a lawsuit with then in most cases those that have the money or power can take what they wish from your thought and work and appropriate it for their own use. Even profit from it. Or distort and skew it to their own purposes.

Each person has to make their own decisions in what they wish to expose to the public light. As long as it motivated by what is good and right then you will not care if some nefarious crud creature steals it, and profits from it.

You will have done your part. The universe will know.



posted on Nov, 23 2006 @ 12:43 AM
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My website explains my situation best. It is MINDBOGGLER
members.tripod.com...
I am a DOCUMENTED ABDUCTEE/CONTACTEE. I have some of the proof. The government has the rest of it.
If you could have seen how I was moved recently for my safety, you would say, "OMG!" It was almost as fast as Dick Cheney was moved to a bunker on 9-11.

They ARE GOOD guys.
BTW, I can't SEND any ETs or government guys TO anyone. They are following orders which often relate to lineage....FAMILY.



posted on Nov, 23 2006 @ 04:25 AM
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Nice post....We are all being taken for a ride!

'Now my question is this IF James casbolt, Bill Ryan, Richard Doty,kerry Cassidy and yes even ATS's own John Lear all know or are connected in some kind of way to each other, is it the biggest Disinfo Operation ever on all of us? or is James Casbolt really onto something? I need all of your help on this one folks because we need to weed out the *crap* .'

Was someone here listening to the Paracast 20.11.2006 hhmmmm.




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