6 Muslim Imams removed from flight.

Originally posted by 27jd

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Edit: And you may not like the word racist. It's an ugly word, and we can tiptoe around it all day, but that doesn't make it any less true.

Doesn't bother me at all. It's thrown around so much these days it's lost it's meaning. We're all racist I guess.

Indeed...

Calling someone a racist on a forum is the first and last action of someone with no ability to discuss threads based on fact. As soon as I see someone calling another a racist for no reason I immediately dismiss them as ignorant and ignore them.

Again, I've stated my reasons, and they are valid. It seems that you don't like the word, and I could care less. To judge someone based on race is racism is it not?

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Again, I've stated my reasons, and they are valid. It seems that you don't like the word, and I could care less. To judge someone based on race is racism is it not?

Your reasons are flawed and you are ignored. Good luck in the future pulling the race card when you find yourself unable to discuss the topic intelligently and honorably.

Btw, you might want to take a look at the line underneath your name above your avatar because you are not living up to those ideals from what I can see in this thread.

[edit on 11/22/2006 by Escrotumus]

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
To judge someone based on race is racism is it not?

Yes, it sure is. And you seem to be doing it yourself. You completley assumed
that I wouldn't be concerned by a group of white muslims (there are white muslims in the taliban and AQ), when I said I would be just as concerned you ignored that and went back to the Arab thing. There skin color doesn't bother me in the least, it's the fundamental and extreme ideology of ANY religion that concerns me, especially at 30,000 feet....

Originally posted by 27jd
Red laces are not a weapon, they are symbols of an ideology. It's not the laces that will attack. You have no idea if a skin wearing red laces will attack you, so it's better to be cautious. And 9/11 didn't involve bombs at all....

Maybe they are a symbol of an ideology, but should one be punished for an ideology? Should that ideology force me to lose my rights?

And of course 9/11 didn't involve bombs, but the Richard Reed incident did.

I don't think race has anything to do with it, I think people are just as weiry about it and even white Muslims if they did the same. Problem is extreamism exists and what ever statergy they use or concepts will never be all the same as every terror attach in its self and has its unique ways. If they did not have luggage then my suspicion would have been was to empty all luggage again and scan them to be sure. Taking them off the plane does nothing its what else is on the plane that counts also.

Its not race its the ideology that stems from that religion in its currupted form that exists. Call me racist or culture bashing but I bet white guys with dreadlocks smoke more weed than the average person. In England I have seen that with my eyes, maybe I am just in the wrong place at the wrong time but I have not seen one that does not.

Freedom of speach?
Say 'BOMB' before boarding a plane I dare you.
Say 'I hope we don't crash into a building like 9/11'.
Say 'I hope there are no terrorists on board my flight'.

Freedom of speech does not exist anymore on flights and things have changed and people should know by now. They also know Muslim extreamist pray in their Arabic language before commiting a crime for the sake of Allah and if you can not prove what they said then you have to say 'I have 50/50 chance that its okay or its my imagination'
Want to gamble on that? I would not like too either and people also know they sometimes have co-incidences of thoughts and maybe special abilities when some feel a strong emotion that have a 50/50 chance that they get it right more than the average person. Even so I would prefer in this climate of post war on terror with all the threats from Extreamists and demonising of Islam its not the avarage persons fault. Maybe its one of those things that takes time to adapt and it takes little instances to over come it all.

They over come these things in communist countries so no religion is practiced they over come religious conflict in Middle easten countries by making sure they are persecuted before they ever get out or they are too scared to stay in that country.

We may critise our behavour because we can and you guys are very lucky that you are allowed to stick up for other religions that are not part of your heritage that makes you are very lucky indeed.


[edit on 22-11-2006 by The time lord]

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Maybe they are a symbol of an ideology, but should one be punished for an ideology? Should that ideology force me to lose my rights?

No, and how is it a right to fly? Does a nightclub have a right NOT to allow gang members in because others may feel threatened? You bet they do. A business has the right not to serve whomever they choose.

And of course 9/11 didn't involve bombs, but the Richard Reed incident did.

Exactly, his bombs were cleverly hidden, he was not "strapped" with anything, they were in his shoe sole. Who's to say that each member of that group didn't have a component to some kind of device? It warranted looking into....

Originally posted by 27jd
Yes, it sure is. And you seem to be doing it yourself. You completley assumed
that I wouldn't be concerned by a group of white muslims (there are white muslims in the taliban and AQ), when I said I would be just as concerned you ignored that and went back to the Arab thing. There skin color doesn't bother me in the least, it's the fundamental and extreme ideology of ANY religion that concerns me, especially at 30,000 feet....

Fair enough.

Maybe I chose racism a little quickly. Maybe a religious intolerance similar to anti-semitism may have been a better choice of words. Never the less, the same applies.

Personally I don't think there is anything wrong with this picture. The fact that these men were removed was for the sake of the safety of many. Granted these men didn't pose a threat, they very well could have. Maybe this same passenger saw these men praying before they got on the plane and thought maybe they were praying for their final farewell.

I'm done listening to people cry foul about the treatment of those that practice islam. If they want to be treated the same then they need to make a better name for their religion. Killing thousands of innocent people needs to stop. The Islamic countries that let this go on are the ones that need to be blamed for this, not the United States. At least we are trying to improve the situation, unlike the middle eastern countries that dont do squat. We are trying to weed out the bad from the good, we are doing the job that those other countries cant or refuse to do, if that means you don't ride on one of our planes, well so be it. Maybe these individuals weren't gonna blow it up, but what if they were? Would we be having this debate? I think not.

It's really simple, make a good name for islam and this problem goes away. The place to start is not in this country.

Originally posted by esdad71
Everyone makes me nervous, does that make me a racist?

Except for the government of course right EsDad?



I'm nervous about the government and less so about everyone else myself.

Has anyone ever been stopped, harrassed by the police, and handcuffed because you "fit the description"?

How about being followed around in a store because it was assumed that you would steal something?

Is that okay?

Originally posted by denythestatusquo

Originally posted by esdad71
Everyone makes me nervous, does that make me a racist?

Except for the government of course right EsDad?

I'm nervous about the government and less so about everyone else myself.
This situation reminds me a lot of the student at UCLA deal where if it was handled differently then there would have been no problem likely. But since authorities don't know how to behave professionally at times we have these kinds of incidents.

Originally posted by half_minded
So I guess its ok to discriminate for business profits. Applause.

Its ok to harass innocent people based on personal concerns. Applause.

Its ok to segregate one group of people because you love to stereotype them.

I hate people like you. People like you are a burden on earth. You contribute nothing to society than hatred.

If that blind imam was not wearing a beard and had wihte skin, everyone would have been very compassionate towards him. But since he looked muslim, he was immeditaely looked upon with suspicious eyes.

And the reasoning 'They must have done something suspicious'......Tell me exactly what. Name one thing.

And the reasoning 'Safety concerns'.........more 'crazy, angry' american carry guns than u think. Throw them out of the country first voz u never know when they might go on a killing spree.

First, so what if they discriminated they will probably discrimante again its their choice deal with it.

Second, If I saw something that alarmed me I would report it also, and I would hope that someone else would do they same thing. I wouldnt have reported about the prayers though, thats not alarming enough I know plenty of muslims who do the same prayer.

Third, stereotyping happens constant I spent 5 years in law enforcement I can give you one peice of advice if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it usually is a duck

Fourth, if I saw someone on their knees praying I would be a little suspicious if they were not muslim.

Fifth, being that most americans have never cared to learn about Islam its not suprising that they found the kneeling prayers strange.

Sixth, the last thing you wrote was just ignorant. remember the slogan Deny Ignorance.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Fair enough.

Maybe I chose racism a little quickly. Maybe a religious intolerance similar to anti-semitism may have been a better choice of words. Never the less, the same applies.

Well, anti-semitism or something similar would imply that I am singling out one religion. I am weary of the fundamental versions of them all. Humans don't need to create more reasons to divide ourselves, kill and die for, and hate one another. I am against religion, not faith, but religion. You've got me pegged there.

But these men showed no sign of fanatic fundamentalism, yet they were judged to be such, and were descriminated against.

I don't like extremism either, but I'm not going to have people booted from my plane because I think there is a slight chance that they might be fundamentalist. And an even slighter chance that they were dangerous.

Just like being followed around in a store because you're black.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
But these men showed no sign of fanatic fundamentalism, yet they were judged to be such, and were descriminated against.

Well, that can be debated. I believe they were behaving in a way, at the least showing disregard for the current state of things, that warranted suspicion.

I don't like extremism either, but I'm not going to have people booted from my plane because I think there is a slight chance that they might be fundamentalist. And an even slighter chance that they were dangerous.

Just like being followed around in a store because you're black.

The stakes in that case were alot higher than a little lost revenue due to a possible stolen item...

It's the same principle. To judge someone based on little more information than a gut feling, and to take away their rights as a person because of it is demoralizing and inhuman.

The stakes are higher than you think.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
It's the same principle. To judge someone based on little more information than a gut feling, and to take away their rights as a person because of it is demoralizing and inhuman.

The stakes are higher than you think.

In law enforcement you learn to trust your gut feeling.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
But these men showed no sign of fanatic fundamentalism, yet they were judged to be such, and were descriminated against.

Your right they didn't, but one would think to use a little discretion when at the airport, especially in terms of prayer before boarding a plane. Just like you don't say the word gun going through security. When your in a public place you practice discretion. The airport is a public place where certain things are and are not acceptable. Is praying in the terminal allowed? Yes. But common sense would tell me, if I was islamic, not to do it. Maybe it does infringe on freedom of religion, however nobody is preventing them from practicing islam as their religion. It really comes down to common sense.

Just like being followed around in a store because you're black.

That may be the case, but I would tend to think the individuals being followed are more or less fitting some type of description. Look like a gangbanger and people will be suspicious, and you'll get treated like someone would treat a gangbanger, regardless of your intentions. Look like a slut get treated like a slut. Is it judgemental, yeah probably, but at the same time we as humans use past experience to form our judgements. It's not just americans either.

Originally posted by JamesMcMahn
In law enforcement you learn to trust your gut feeling.

Yeah, that gut feeling has gotten me stitches. Law enforcement may trust it, but the unsuspecting victim doesn't.