6 Muslim Imams removed from flight.

If these Imans are such a threat to America what were they doing on a plane in the first place, either there completely innocent or they are not which one is it. And for all the shouting about 9/11 we still dont know who was resposible do we as every attempt to find out the truth has been blocked by the Goverment.

If people go through the normal security checks at an airport and are deemed to be no threat whats the problem with you all, I could not care less who was on the plane with me as long as they are not a threat irrespective of race colour or creed.
Whats next are you not going to shop at Muslim store becuase you might be poisoned, the fear mongers must be laughing their ass's off at grown men and women acting like scared children at the sight of a person who may be a Muslim.

Magicmushroom, just so you can sleep well tonite, these Imams where completely not innocent, allowing them on Aeroplanes was a complete mistake as was allowing them into America, they are here to cause friction between peoples and promote hate, they are enemys of democracy.

They should be sent to Gitmo pending there eventual deportation to country of Origin before they get to promote there Racist propaganda anymore.

^ sarcasm?

Sometimes it doesn't translate well into written word, but I think you're being sarcastic, right?

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
^ sarcasm?

Sometimes it doesn't translate well into written word, but I think you're being sarcastic, right?

Partly Sarcastic, more of a dig at Magic for so blatantly displaying the apologist behaviour that weve come to expect now a days. He obviously hasnt read any of the news about this incident and like many out there plans to use this as "another" example of western intolerance/hate against Islam.


But we are not phased, we see it everyday.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
I've been replying to small minded comments regarding Muslims so much that now, when I see such obvious logical fallacies I just point out the fallacy, judge the comment invalid, and go on to the next comment.

When I find a comment presented logically I will most certainly rebut using a well thought out response. If I don't feel the comment deserves more than a passing dismissal, then I won't give it one.

OK i understand your side of this , now if there was a few dozen people just like you on each side of a given debate that replied to peoples statements with things like ......

Irrelevant

Assumption

/yawn

next


It wouldnt take long for it all to be just a big crap fight, the only reason i bought it too your attention was that i saw that type of answering from you twice in one given page.

Im not trying to be a forum cop, its annoying is all, Just saying like, friendly advice.

Cheers

Like it or not, this country was founded on Christian ideals and Christian beliefs. We bend over backwards as a society to be tolerant to other races and religions and frankly I think we do an excellent job of this as an American society. The real reason these Imams pulled this stunt is because they were hoping for a reaction to this and they got one. Frankly, I feel that if you are in this country then it is YOUR job to accommodate us and not the other way around. What kind of reaction did they think that they would get post 911? Word on the radio and tv shows is that they were making derogatory remarks about America and that this whole thing was pre-planned to generate a reactionary response. To me this is no different than some white guy who goes to Harlem and wears a sign that says I HATE BLACK PEOPLE. What did they think would happen? They should have been given citations for inciting a public nuisance and kicked out of the airport imo.

I have not read what other people put as I just want to voice an opinion and not continue a debate about who is wrong or right.

Basically think of it like this. When I go on a flight I worry anyway and never feel it will never crash.
But when you add a history of plane highjacking and the recent 9/11 being more related to fanatical Muslims or people from that part of the world then it's logical to add fear to the already fearful thought of a flight. Call it discrimination but one has the right to feel fear by this its normal.
Don't most suicide bombers or assassins pray to Allah before they commit their crimes? MMM think of like this - would you like your Muslim passenger praying to Allah with the ingredients of the already hyped fear of flying it self and revenge missions over the Iraq war planned at the West especially the USA? With a combination of some one out of the blue starting praying out loud to Allah it all seems like this - they are praying for their Martyrdom.

I would feel as a passenger that their insensitive arrogant ways to over ride people's basic anxiety only means they have a plan to cause either a plane disaster or purposely cause controversy. If the passengers had a choice between living and dying and checking everything is all right for the safety of their lives what would you do? Why risk it for the sake of Political Correctness when it your life you are gambling and you have fear of death, we have a right to complain even as passengers about the slightest things and inform something is not right.
So 6 Muslims feeling were hurt but I think billions on this planet feel that much more scared of flights since 9/11 than they ever did. I feel I no longer trust any flights even if its a plane with no one on it.

Since when have Muslims practiced praying on Planes in their tradisional ways?
Is this a new thing since 9/11 on Western flights or has the public gone mad?
If there is a a scatch on the window I think people will inform the hostess but that never gets reported. Just think we should not gamble on our fears for the sake of Political correctness because we may never gamble again if we were right and never did anything about it what ever it may be.

[edit on 22-11-2006 by The time lord]

Key word is public. They have every right to criticize America do they not? And no, it's not their job to accomidate us. It's their right to not be punished for their race, religion or political ideals is it not? Or does that only apply to different branches of Christianity?

The world is at war with Terrorists and I think a majority come from the Middle Eastern religious parts which does not take much added up. We should have a sense of fear, its not just the West portrayal but the Terrorists properganda to bring even more War on the West. Yes blame war on Iraq but the does not mean it does not take much to Equate who is more likely to cause us harm. Don't sit down to let it happen, complain - don't most Police authorities trust and respect little clues or suspicions about anythng that is worth investigating? Now we can not afford to be sloppy and if a few Muslims get upset then its better than the real consequences. Untill things have calmed down they have to put up with it too for now. I heard a male terrorist suspect dressed in a Vail could get through or has done through an air port system because our political correctness undermines the possible threats and they would rather look at a White 90 year old westerner to say how indiscrinate they are. Logic gone out of the window.

[edit on 22-11-2006 by The time lord]

Originally posted by The time lord
But when you add a history of plane highjacking and the recent 9/11 being more related to fanatical Muslims or people from that part of the world then it's logical to add fear to the already fearful thought of a flight. Call it discrimination but one has the right to feel fear by this its normal.

Sure, everyone has the right to feal fear (justified or not) but it is entirely different to act irrationally on that fear. Would you want a black person removed from a flight because you're afraid (irrationally) that they may steal your wallet?

Don't most suicide bombers or assassins pray to Allah before they commit their crimes? MMM think of like this - if your Muslim passenger will be praying to Allah too on your flight the ingredients of the already hyped fear of flying it self do with a combination of some one out of the blue starting praying out loud.

Muslims pray 5 times a day, at specific times of the day. It's scheduled.

they are praying for their Martyrdom.

Do you speak Arabic? Do you know what they're praying for?

I would feel as a passenger that their insensitive arrogant ways to over ride people's basic anxiety only means they have a plan to cause either a plane disaster or purposely cause controversy. If the passengers had a choice between living and dying and checking everything is all right for the safety of their lives what would you do?

Their arrogance?

Seatbelt fastened? Check
Seat in full upright possition? Check
Blacks in the back of the plane? Check
Women in the kitchen making a sandwich? Check
Muslims removed from plane? Check

Why risk it for the sake of Political Correctness when it your life you are gambling and you have fear of death, we have a right to complain even as passengers about the slightest things and inform something is not right.

In this case, their being muslim was not right. That seems to be the only thing that is being presented to show suspicious behavior.

So 6 Muslims feeling were hurt but I think billions on this planet feel that much more scared of flights since 9/11 than they ever did. I feel I no longer trust any flights even if its a plane with no one on it.

No, 6 muslims rights were violated based on an irrational fear.

Since when have Muslims practiced praying on Planes in their tradisional ways?
Is this a new thing since 9/11 on Western flights or has the public gone mad?
If there is a a scatch on the window I think people will inform the hostess but that never gets reported. Just think we should not gamble on our fears for the sake of Political correctness because we may never gamble again if we were right and never did anything about it what ever it may be.

So, muslims praying is equated to a technical malfunction?

Why is your right to be secure more important than their's?

Originally posted by The time lord
The world is at war with Terrorists and I think a majority come from the Middle Eastern religious parts which does not take much added up. We should have a sense of fear,

Once again, a hasty generalization, and an invalid argument. Using a small percent of a poppulation to gudge an entire population is illogical.

Now we can not afford to be sloppy and a few Muslims untill things have calmed down have to put up with it too for now.

The Japanese had to put up with it. As did the Jews, and blacks.

We do not know what people are praying I don't speak Arabic never heard what they said. But all it takes is Allah in conversation or AKBAR or something to think this is odd. How many people experience Muslim prayer on flights? Yes they could be ignorant but I don't blame them. But it's not irrational it depends on that situation, the elements of that flight- maybe the flight could have had a 9am take off 11am landing or something but what ever it was it brought fear.
They don't have to pray specifically at certain times and its allowed to make room for their work duties also. The fear is in the fact we can not trust a grain of salt anymore and that is what the news in America especially has done to the people.
It is logical to expect some fear and not take risks. If people feel uncomfortable on a flight then they should complain. If you add turbilance with prays of Allah you would feel even worse, like-we are going to die... I feel sorry for the Muslims but in this climate of fear its best if they leave their prayers in their Heads as I think God can hear that too. Its a good post makes one think about issues it could happen to anyone...

But one news that effects these Muslims has also other effect for example that BA flights ban people wearing crosses that go to to Middle Easten countries in case of offence. Now even in the Air ports employees have to remain nutrual. Its not war on Muslims but war on all Religion overall to keep people in a anti-religious vaccume which is sad really. Maybe people were in fearing Irrationally but someone put it into their heads I think?

[edit on 22-11-2006 by The time lord]

[edit on 22-11-2006 by The time lord]

More information is coming out on this matter which justifies what the airline did.



Refusing to get off the plane combined with one way tickets and no baggage alone qualifies as reasonable cause in my book no matter what anyone says. Kindly norte the police agree with me.......and the captain of the plane

[edit on 11/22/2006 by shots]

I heard on the radio last night that one of these guys were connected to Bin Laden in some what..

Apparently one of them was working for a charity that the government froze assets to from aiding al Qaeda network

I find it odd that a group of muslim men, some travelling with no baggage and carrying one way tickets managed to get thru screening without incident.

that should have resulted in some kind of hold up.

Originally posted by ThichHeaded
Apparently one of them was working for a charity that the government froze assets to from aiding al Qaeda network

I linked to a source that gave more then just that reason back on page 5

post is here

When you combine all the facts it certainly makes them look foolish for complaining.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Key word is public. They have every right to criticize America do they not? And no, it's not their job to accomidate us. It's their right to not be punished for their race, religion or political ideals is it not? Or does that only apply to different branches of Christianity?

The respectful thing to do when a guest in one's country is to accommodate their host's values and ideals. I see none of this going on and frankly it's past due. When someone is a guest in my home I expect them to adhere to my rules. This is no different. Why should WE accommodate them? In a post 911 world frankly they would have to be out of their minds to act this way in an airport. They are lucky they aren't still in the clink, which is where they would be if I had my way. You go ahead and try something similar in their country and I guarantee you they would stone you in the streets so please don't dare tell me that it's us that should be more accepting of them. I'd say that after the atrocities that have been committed in the name of Islam lately that these clowns got off light.

[edit on 11/22/2006 by Escrotumus]

CNN Link: www.cnn.com...
Yahoo News Link from AP: news.yahoo.com...

According to news, three Imams prayed in the terminal and not on the plane itself. They prayed in the terminal. Muslims have been praying all across the world in airports since as far back as I can remember. Muslims have fixed time for prayers, so they pray wherever they can. In planes, there is not enough space so they can pray while sitting in the chair.

Lets analyze the news reports.

*Hooper said the meeting drew about 150 imams from all over the country, and that those attending included Rep.-elect Keith Ellison, a Minnesota Democrat, who just became the first Muslim elected to Congress. Shahin said they went as far as notifying police and the FBI about their meeting in advance.

The imams were in Minneapolis for a conference. The FBI and local police were informed of the conference ahead of time. If they were terrorists, then why would they inform the authorities. Just to avoid the stereotyping and confusion.

Praying in the terminal should not have caused any alarms, because muslims pray all over the world, even when they are not gonna blow things up (sarcasm). They have a right to pray. They were not in anyone's way or causing any problem to other passengers while praying. They had their own space in the terminal which they were using peacefully.

*In the incident Monday, a passenger reported overhearing the imams criticize the U.S. in Iraq and speaking angrily near the gate. The men were interrogated by the FBI and the Secret Service. They had to fly a different airline out of town on Tuesday after US Airways refused to let them on any of its flights.

So we all should believe the passenger who is overly paranoid and probably does not know how to speak Arabic. If the imams were speaking in English, even then it does not matter what opinions they have over Iraq war. Half the world talks about it and is against it, while other half support it. That is no reason to suspect anything. And again, the passenger could just be lying coz he wanted the imams off the plane and added extra 'spice' to stories to make his words sound more credible.
So we cannot use that as reasoning to kick ppl off a plane.

Praying in the terminal. Scratch that reasoning too.

*According to a police report, a US Airways manager said three of the men had one-way tickets and no checked baggage. Some of the men also asked for seat belt extensions even though a flight attendant told police she thought they didn't need them.

One way tickets and no baggage....hmm....let see. Lot of people all over the world fly one way because they are unsure of their return dates or sometimes they have to travel other places and their return destination maybe different than where they landed the first time. They obviously wont carry lot of baggage if they are going for a conference. They might have had hand bags because thats all they needed, hence, no checked baggage. How many people going on business trips actually have checked baggage. Lot of them travel with only one hand briefcase, etc. Makes sense they wont have much for just a conference. And wats with the seat belt extension? How is that dangerous. I fail to see any relevance of that, to them being a threat.

*The police report said the flight's captain had already decided he wanted the men off the plane after the passenger passed him a note pointing out "suspicious Arabic men."

The captain obviously practiced poor judgement by acting on just a note by a paranoid passenger. You would expect the captain to atleast act more professionally and try to investigate the matter first. Its like a school kid passing a note to the teacher. "Suspicious Arabic Men"????? What the hell is that? So one stupid paranoid stereotyping guy thinks the arabic looking men are suspicious and the airlines actually acts on it????? WOW

And one of the Imams was blind too. Not that he cannot do harm, but if they wanted a effective terrorist attack, a blind man is not a smart choice.

Obviously none of this will matter to some of you close minded people because muslim = terrorist in your eyes.

Nineteen Muslims hijacked three planes, destroyed two buildings, and killed almost 3000 people. There have been other murders as well, also perpetrated by Muslims.

Stereotyping is going to happen. If Muslims don't like it they should do more to stop the terrorism by their brothers in Allah.

Until then they should STFU.

[edit on 11/22/2006 by Landis]

Originally posted by Landis
Nineteen Muslims hijacked three planes, destroyed two buildings, and killed almost 3000 people. There have been other murders as well, also perpetrated by Muslims.

Stereotyping is going to happen. If Muslims don't like it they should do more to stop the terrorism by their brothers in Allah.

Until then STFU.

Applause. Very good reasoning. You have opened my eyes. Nwo hold on a sec while I slap you across the face so you might come to your senses.

BTW, prove to me 19 muslims caused 9/11 and I will STFU. Until then U STFU!!!

See......I can speak ur language too. But that does not prove anything. So until you got some real sensible arguments, STFU.