6 Muslim Imams removed from flight.

Of course if your from the mid east you might not think so. They kill over anything.

What utter nonsense.

A guy got shot in the face a few weeks ago, just down the street from me. He was killed over a parking space, as near as we can tell. A guy I knew in High School had his skull smashed to pulp by a free weight during gym because someone didn't like his look. I could go on...

Want to reconsider your illogical statement?

People kill over anything EVERYWHERE! You'd have to be incredibly blind and prejudiced to think otherwise.

Originally posted by UofCinLA
As a business person, why should I risk my expensive planes and the lives of other passengers just to accomodate a few..?? I wouldn't, because it makes no business sense....

Actually, if I can get my Muslim friends to pony up the cash, I'm going to start "Magic Carpet Airlines" and cater just to the Muslims of the world. Good niche business and a good Muslim would never blow up another Muslim so I should make out like bank.

This one stood out to me. A lot of other posts were pretty racist, but this is a good example.

Maybe you should also start Sambo Air. You could fill it with Black people so they don't rape the white women passengers.

How about Slant eye Airlines? I know I'm afraid of asians going Jackie Chan on my when I fly.

If I was asked to step off of a plane because I was black it would take a security guard to get me off of it. Better yet, Homeland security.

[edit on 21-11-2006 by Rasobasi420]

I would never say america is pure and innocent, all countries suffer from violence but lets put things into contrast here for a second.

Where are people blowing themselves up everyday in markets in big crowds?

Where are people off'ing eachother in record numbers for beliefes alone? "hint they were doing it to eachother before bush became president"

Where is it considered honorable to kill a loved one if she is raped?

Should I keep going.

America is f'd up, but a hell of alot less then other places. Even if America has an ugly underbelly at least its not all america is. Whereas alot of these other places you'd be hard pressed to prove otherwise.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne

Of course if your from the mid east you might not think so. They kill over anything.

What utter nonsense.

A guy got shot in the face a few weeks ago, just down the street from me. He was killed over a parking space, as near as we can tell. A guy I knew in High School had his skull smashed to pulp by a free weight during gym because someone didn't like his look. I could go on...

Want to reconsider your illogical statement?

People kill over anything EVERYWHERE! You'd have to be incredibly blind and prejudiced to think otherwise.

Which people were rioting about a cartoon?
Which people killed because of a cartoon?

Illogical, not at all. You just don't like that I'm right.

Originally posted by American Madman
America is f'd up, but a hell of alot less then other places.

but we expect more from a technologically advanced nation that supposedly values freedom and education as somewhat important aspects of society.

Originally posted by American Madman
Even if America has an ugly underbelly at least its not all america is.

sadly, the ugly underbelly of this fine nation is how the rest of the world sees us. to everyone else we are overindulging, arrogant, overweight, knee high tube sox wearing people. The bible thumping, the ignorance of the world beyond our borders, the seemingly uncaring attitude towards anything not us doesn't seem to help either.

Okay people, let's stop using Logical Fallacies to defend our point. From this point on, I will point it out when I see it.

In this thread I've seen the use of
Hasty Generalizations
guilt by association
Appeal to Spite
Appeal to popularity
Appeal to common practice

If we could refrain from using these logical fallacies, this discussion could go further. However, since no argument has been made in favor of these actions without these logical fallacies, I'm going to say that there is no justification for throwing these men off of the plane.


[edit on 21-11-2006 by Rasobasi420]

Halfminded, I'm afraid its a sign of the times, although I do not agree with it, the problem is that people are being made to fear Muslims and the belief that all Muslims are terrorists. Its not true of course but the media in the UK/US have gone into overdrive in spreading the hate, fear and mistrust.

It seems this issue is only a problem in the UK/US. A couple of months ago my wife and I travelled to Berlin with Air Berlin, after we boarded the plane a passanger wanted to go into the cockpit, he was allowed to and he even took photographs. Obviously the terror issue is not a problem for the Germans.

I'm afraid its going to get alot worse before it gets better, the sad thing is that peoples minds can be so easily manipulated.

Let's be realistic...

There are people running about and preaching on their cameras about how they will not rest until the entire west is dead or the images on TV of people in the middle east celebrating when the towers were struck. The bottom line is a select few are ruining it for the bunch. Then you have the average, undereducated joe shmoe on a plane who has seen nothing but TV and the images of muslims saying they want everyone in the west dead..how exactly do you expect him to react? Seeing as airlines deal with more under educated average joe americans than muslims, it makes sense they would do what they did. Not to mention, it sure doesn't help their case by refusing to get off the plane....

Business is business..... the airline is going to side with whoever it is that will keep bringing in the most money, while still trying to look their best as to not lose anyone else.

Sad but true. Until this is all settled that's how it's going to be.

In all honesty with all the propaganda going around with people on tv saying things like they are going to strike soon and they will be who you are not expecting, yadda yadda, seeing some muslims guys saying prayers on the plane, then refusing to get off for a screening would give me the heebie jeebies too. Sorry if that's terribly insulting and you want to spit on me or rape my daughter or whatever all this has been compared to....

Originally posted by half_minded

All of you proud americans please raise your hand up so I can laugh at you. This is what it has come to. Open stereotyping and discrimination in your supposedly free country. And you guys wonder why people are starting to get pissed off with america.

Is this post about the event or selling your agenda?

The problem is that someone can easily counter your statements with a quick peek at google where 12 Pakistanis, including two imams were posing as religious workers so they could get into the country to do other jobs.

www.forbes.com...

Though not terrorists, they used the cover of imam to do something else...I think the 6 imams in Minnesota need to talk to their brothers who are giving them a bad name. And I don't think it takes a genius to figure out if you can get in here with the cover of being an imam and go work at a gas station, you can just as easily be a terrorist too.

Were they doing anything wrong before getting on the plane...no. But when people read about how deceptive terrorists are, they begin to suspect every person and their shadow. These other news reports aren't helping out legit Muslims.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
I'm going to say that there is no justification for throwing these men off of the plane.


[edit on 21-11-2006 by Rasobasi420]

Check my original reply. I said if the airliner was confident in it's screening process it should have reassured the worried passengers that everything is "OK".

Atomic,

Hasty Generalization.

Point invalid

Next....

wow. the discussion in this thread is barely intelligent.

half_minded:

What you say is half_truth. Yes, America should not be a place where a certain look can get you kicked off a plane. Someone wearing say, a gold chain with an ak-47 on it (my last flight, passenger next to me) should be allowed to fly just as much as anyone. Cut the super offended militant who spits in people's faces crap. you sound 20X more ignorant than anything/one spoken about in this thread. You are angry that America is not living up to its potential. We are trying hard to eradicate bigotry, you are putting fuel on the fire. You need to calm down, understand that things have significantly changed since 9/11 (no matter what you think the cause is, 99.99999% of Americans understand it to be a result of our policies in the M.E. and militants in that region doing something about it) If you are really in the business of improving the world, your hate speech is betraying you. You wrote about people getting in the way of positive change and wanting to remove them from the planet...... i think you've become a roadblock yourself.

In regards to the issue. It is a terrible event, terribly un-American. The funniest part of it, to me, is that I am quite sure a real terrorist would not dress up as an Islamic Iman. They have something called tactics, which they used on 9/11. For god's sake they shaved their beards. A terrorist will not endanger his mission by looking like the sterotypical terrorist.

I don't really know how to end this. I don't have any solution to this problem or the dozen identical ones that will take place in the coming years. I can't say America is horrible for doing this....Because one event or several or thousands DOES NOT DETERMINE WHAT EVERY AMERICAN IS/REPRESENTS. Some of you need to learn that. Anytime in any place in America someone can have any thought they want. Im sure a lot of them mimic some of your responses. America can represent anything, and everything.

I guess all you can say is:

"lets hope cooler minds prevail"
(and THATS directed towards everyone)

[edit on 21-11-2006 by Philadelphite]

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Atomic,

Hasty Generalization.

Point invalid

Next....

Explain...your link isn't loading up for me.

Are you looking for more links to say that people do not pretend to be one thing in order to achieve another goal. Are you saying that people are not under the impression that certain people of Muslim heritage do not pretend to be something else to achieve a terrorist agenda?

(EDIT) I got your link to load finally...good link. I disagree with your interpretation though.

Hasty Generalization also says: "The fallacy is committed when not enough A's are observed to warrant the conclusion. If enough A's are observed then the reasoning is not fallacious."

In my opinion we have seen enough covert terrorists and imams (A's) that promote terrorism to cause people to be unnerved when boarding a plane. Does that make it right what happened to these six people? No. But people in fear make "hasty generalizations" and consider their intuition to be a guide and not logic. My link was a quick link to counter half_minded's (and just as recent).

All of America, including Muslims lost some rights with 9/11. I have a Muslim friend who had an "incident" so I know my phone has been tapped...and he knows it too. I hate it, he hates it, because both of us are innocent...it's not right, and thank god the phone taps were ended by congress (hopefully). It will be a great day when we don't have to sacrifice are freedoms for a small "sample" of terrorists that have such a large impact on our lives.


[edit on 21/11/06 by Atomic]

Half_Mind

I will assume your Muslim..

Or closed minded?

Where was the outrage when the Jewish rabbis where booted off the plane for praying? Rocking back and forth, praying, booted off the plane..

Just cause they are Muslim?

Praying out loud in a fashion that is not a norm in a western society in highted times leads to misconception, had they the inteligence to know how to act in different peoples societies they wouldn't have any issues.

madman
You are right about the exploding markets and the rape culture - but if you can't understand the point I'm trying to make there's no use in continuing. People evidence their brutality and ignorance in a myriad of ways.

Riots over cartoons are really stupid. Riots over Playstation consoles are stupid too. I don't see much difference - both involve ignorant, selfish people making a mess of things because they can't see past their own noses.

More education is the answer, not more segregation and discrimination.

Sheesh...

Originally posted by nextguyinline
If it's truly the case of an overly paranoid passenger, let's hope he/she was 85 and on their way out.

With this precedence, could it be plausible that passengers on any form of public transport can demand someone of Mulsim 'appearance' to be removed? Buses? Trains?
Tours?

Rediculous, I hope that passenger lost their luggage. Or at least a hairspary bottle exploded in it.

:edit to add: If I was Muslim, I'd be damned sure not to pray in airports before my flight!

[edit on 21-11-2006 by nextguyinline]

The ONLY part you got right was that they not pray just before getting on the plane.
What is wrong with someone being careful? Their actions were obviously alarming to some people.

The ONLY part you got right was that they not pray just before getting on the plane.
What is wrong with someone being careful? Their actions were obviously alarming to some people.

A lot of people pray before going on a plane. Jews, christians, muslims. Just because they are muslims it's more dangerous. American Madman, you're brainwashed.

There is nothing wrong with the passengers being a little nervous with Muslim men who may have been dressed in traditional garb and praying. Terrorist attacks happen, and they can happen like this. Don't blame the passengers...blame the fanatics who blow themselves up almost daily in different places.

The US isn't separating all Muslims from planes, so many of you saying the US is like "Nazi Germany" are idiots to put it frankly.

I'm not surprised. Face it people, the US - Islam fundamentalism conflict is only going to get worse, it is a war. People will fear/hate Muslims they see more and more, even if they are no threat. It is human nature(pathetic).

Same type of situations probably happened in WW2 with the Japanese as well, before we put them into internment camps. Lets hope that history wont repeat itself.










[edit on 21-11-2006 by Shmigoli]

had they the inteligence to know how to act in different peoples societies they wouldn't have any issues.

I certainly don't remember praying covertly on a plane as being non-American.

The airlines have a right to refuse service to anyone for anything not illegal. This incident happens to be a grey area, that I'm sure will warrant and elicite some kind of law analisys. The Imams were clearly refused service due to their religious appearance—illegal. Add in the 'security' aspect, and they might be able to get away with it.

Really it's just sad, cowardly, stupid and oppressive.