6 Muslim Imams removed from flight.

Originally posted by Freedom_for_sum
I also want to point out that not one post in this thread does DJMessiah (a self proclaimed "peaceful" and "moderate" Muslim") criticize the behavior of those Imams. The reason is because it is Haraam (forbidden) for any Muslim to criticize Islam, in any way, lest he becomes an apostate himself.

Fantastic to see other people who know the " Deal "

Hence the reason we did'nt/Dont see Islamic protests after attacks like Sept 11, Bali, London, Spain, Thailand etc etc etc so on and so forth for several pages .......

But on the Flipside critisize the Original Moslem, perhaps draw a picture of her or critisize virtually anything isslamic and see violent protests , Nuns Killed, Churches burnt, flags Burnt, rapes, pillaging, death, destruction, murder,war.

The Religion of Peace dotcom

Originally posted by JamesMcMahn
Do you have any proof this is related to terrorist activities?

Official police report and witness statements can be found here -
What really happened

Originally posted by half_minded
I am a muslim and I have to deal with such things everyday.

Just looking at the words you used to describe yourself under your user-name - TERRORIST and EXTREMIST - tells me that you and your attitude deserve MANY extra security precautions. If I was a fed I'd have you on a watch list and I'd definately not be allowing you on an airplane. You are a self proclaimed muslim terrorist and extremist.

DUH!

[edit on 12/16/2006 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by half_minded
I am a muslim and I have to deal with such things everyday. I go through more security checks while flying than the average Joe.

Well I'm Joe Bag o' doughnuts white guy who happens to not only be a pilot in the military; but am also a pilot for one of the airlines whose airplanes Muslims used to kill almost 3000 fellow countrymen and fellow emplyees. Yet; I'M ON THE TERRORIST WATCH LIST!!! Simply because some Muslim piece of crap decided to try to use my name (a common name like John Smith) to get on an aircraft. So don't expect one shred of sympathy for the "inconvenience" you experience because you're Muslim. I'm not muslim and every time I fly as a passenger, I'm terribly inconvenienced.

[edit on 16-12-2006 by Freedom_for_sum]

Originally posted by Freedom_for_sum
[...]The reason is because it is Haraam (forbidden) for any Muslim to criticize Islam, in any way, lest he becomes an apostate himself.

Yes, but it isn't wrong to criticize someone who claims to be a Muslim but isn't acting very Islamic. Not the faith, but the people. And Muslim people do criticize those who would pervert the name of their faith for their own agenda.

Which is why the following is pure disinfo...:

Originally posted by NumberCruncher
[...]

Hence the reason we did'nt/Dont see Islamic protests after attacks like Sept 11, Bali, London, Spain, Thailand etc etc etc so on and so forth for several pages .......

[...]

...Because there was outrage from this side of the fence, just no publicity.

Moving on.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by half_minded
I am a muslim and I have to deal with such things everyday.

Just looking at the words you used to describe yourself under your user-name - TERRORIST and EXTREMIST - tells me that you and your attitude deserve MANY extra security precautions.

If I was a fed I'd have you on a watch list and I'd definately not be allowing you on an airplane. You are a self proclaimed muslim terrorist and extremist.

DUH!

[edit on 12/16/2006 by FlyersFan]

Relax, FF, it's just sarcasm, I hope. You're a bit on edge lately, it's not good. Have a peach or some similar fruit. It helps me detox and destress.

I had considered putting up something similar in the user profile, but thought long and hard and decided against it. Could bring up credibility issues and what-not.

Originally posted by Freedom_for_sum

Originally posted by half_minded
I am a muslim and I have to deal with such things everyday. I go through more security checks while flying than the average Joe.

Well I'm Joe Bag o' doughnuts white guy who happens to not only be a pilot in the military; but am also a pilot for one of the airlines whose airplanes Muslims used to kill almost 3000 fellow countrymen and fellow emplyees. Yet; I'M ON THE TERRORIST WATCH LIST!!! Simply because some Muslim piece of crap decided to try to use my name (a common name like John Smith) to get on an aircraft. So don't expect one shred of sympathy for the "inconvenience" you experience because you're Muslim. I'm not and every time I fly as a passenger, I'm terribly inconvenienced.

That's really horrible. I feel for you, man, I really do. I can sort of understand that inconvenience. Do you still work for that airline, or has this prevented you from that?

Originally posted by Beachcoma

Which is why the following is pure disinfo...:

Originally posted by NumberCruncher
[...]

Hence the reason we did'nt/Dont see Islamic protests after attacks like Sept 11, Bali, London, Spain, Thailand etc etc etc so on and so forth for several pages .......

[...]

...Because there was outrage from this side of the fence, just no publicity.

Where is your proof ?

You make statements like this but cannot back them up, it is impossible in this day and age to control ALL the media and Publicity, if there was a large scale Moslem outrage at these attacks we would see it in the news.

Funny isnt it, a Cartoonist draws pictures of Mohammed and Millions go Mental, but a Moslem drives a plane into the WTC and more Moslems cheer than Moslems who protest, do you think we are stupid?, as i have proved we are not stupid !!

Maybe by outrage on "this side of the fence" you mean Malaysia ?? Well i find that hard to beleive as well, as i have proved before Malaysia is one of the most Bigoted and Racist Islamic controlled countries on the planet !!

Now show me some sizeable proof of outrage from with in the Muslim world against the Islamofacist attacks on the West. (if you can, which i doubt)



Perhaps for you we can prescribe Siberian Ginseng, amongst many other benefits it Promotes Wisdom.




Just remember, The silence from the Islamic world following each and every Terror attack is DEAFENING !!

You dish it out better than you can take it.

I'm not the one who consistently posts sweeping statements with nothing to back it up here. We all know who does. But why are we talking about me?

Originally posted by NumberCruncher
[...]Maybe by outrage on "this side of the fence" you mean Malaysia ?? Well i find that hard to beleive as well, as i have proved before Malaysia is one of the most Bigoted and Racist Islamic controlled countries on the planet !![...]

As I recall you managed to proof nothing. I was the one who posted links to all the FACTS. You had opinions with no backing.

By this side of the fence I mean moderate Muslims, real Muslims. Muslim who just want to live their lives normally. Not your Boogeyman Crusader fantasy of invading Moslem hordes

Anyway, you make it out as though we like it that all this terrorist activities are happening, by people who claim to share the faith. We don't. Say all you want but we don't.

Muslims Against Terror
Statements Against Terror by Muslim Leaders
Scholars of Islam and the Tragedy of Sept. 11
Islamic Responses to the Sept. 11 Attack
Reactions of Moderate Muslims to the Terror Attacks
Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attacks
Blog entry that shoots down statements that "there are no fatwas against terrorist acts" with facts, not hot air


There's plenty but you've got to look. It's hard to find buried under all the negative press. Looking for those links I googled up muslim outrage 9/11 and hit I'm feeling lucky. I wasn't. I was brought to what seemed like a page out of your blog, NumberCruncher. It was full of bluster like your posts... I had to try other keywords.

Yes, it's impossible to control the media in this day and age with the Internet around. But it's still possible to bury the truth with a lot of disinfo and negative press. Even on the internet.

Now, why don't you bring out that proof you had about what you said of my country. Show me the links, hot shot. Step up to the plate, I'm waiting.

Edit to add: To my Muslim brothers and sisters on the board, while link-hunting I found a very good article/letter, I suggest you all read it: We are so Sorry for 9-11

[edit on 16-12-2006 by Beachcoma]

Originally posted by Beachcoma
Do you still work for that airline, or has this prevented you from that?

I've been furloughed two years (which is a dismissal as a result of economic problems resulting from the attacks). But I do have recal rights when/if they start calling pilots back.

As it was explained to me; if, as an employee, I travel with my own company; I can get a blanket clearance that will remove some of the inconveniences I expereince. But that's only with my company. When I travel with another company, the dog and pony show still takes place. And this is important because I don't live where I'm based. I commute. So I have to fly as a passenger to get to my job.

There are alot of other guys, such as myself (military, pilots etc), who are also on that list. I am extremely concerned that, whatever system the DHS or the TSA use to generate the watch list, it seems to provide more of a "blanket" protection than targeting specific profiles. It's utterly stupid and I believe prone to grave errors.

I wonder what kind of hoops, if any, those Imams had to jump through?

[edit on 16-12-2006 by Freedom_for_sum]

Freedom_For_Sum,

Wow, that's harsh. I'm sorry you've got to go through all that. I'm starting to understand you better. I'd get highly irritated of the forces responsible who'd put me on that sort of trip. Isn't there anything you can do to get your name off of that list?

Originally posted by Beachcoma
Freedom_For_Sum,
Isn't there anything you can do to get your name off of that list?

No.

Regarding your post with the references: I've only had a chance to fo through a few of them. I have a serious problem with the "Statements against terror by Muslims leaders" you provided. Many of those statements contain the word "innocents"; a word that doesn't exist in Islam. The only two statuses along this line is the "House of Peace" (Dar al Islam), and the "House of War" (Dar al Haarb). The problem I have has to do with the prophet's admnishment that "War is deceit" (Sahih Bukhari, IV:52:268-270) and that lying is permissible in battle (Sahih Muslim, book 32, no. 6303). So I have credibility issues with those statements and those "leaders".

BUT; The link you provided
from "Free Muslims" seems to be the most promising (where did the link go from your list?) Here, this group advocates something I have NEVER heard from any Muslim organization: They ask--What is it about Islam that compelled these terrorists? The also "apologize" for several attacks they list all over the globe. I will have to peruse the rest of your links.

[edit on 16-12-2006 by Freedom_for_sum]

Disregard this post. I found the 'freemsulims" link in beachcoma's post.

[edit on 16-12-2006 by Freedom_for_sum]

Originally posted by Beachcoma

Edit to add: To my Muslim brothers and sisters on the board, while link-hunting I found a very good article/letter, I suggest you all read it: We are so Sorry for 9-11

Why are you directing your " Moslem brothers and sisters" to that letter and not the general populace ?

That is an awesome letter and funnily enough stinks of the Truth !! Notice how Moslem leaders never uttered any of what that young person is saying !! I wonder how many threats Kamal Nawash is now going to get from his not so realistic " Brothers ".

Kamal Nawash should be an Islamic leader but im afraid your Religion isnt brave enogh to elect such a man.

You still didnt provide anything significant or anything from mainstream media showing large scale condemnation from the Islamic community against Islamic violence, you know why ? There has not been one, Demonstrations from with in Islam against the Cartoons where 1000 times larger than Islamic demonstrations against Terrorism.

Finally ill address Malaysian Bigotry later ..

Originally posted by NumberCruncher

Originally posted by Beachcoma

Edit to add: To my Muslim brothers and sisters on the board, while link-hunting I found a very good article/letter, I suggest you all read it: We are so Sorry for 9-11

Why are you directing your " Moslem brothers and sisters" to that letter and not the general populace ?

[...]

Because I think it is important for my brethren in faith to read it more than the general populace. Those are true words written there.

[...]Will Muslims wake up before it is too late? Or will we continue blaming the Jews and an imaginary Jewish conspiracy? The blaming of all Muslim problems on Jews is a cancer that is destroying Muslim society from within and it must stop.[...]

Every other Muslim person I know has this in them, or at least 1 in 4, imprinted, programmed from the moment you understand language. Blaming someone else is convenient I suppose.

I'll address other matters later. I just lost a lengthy post I typed out earlier and am not up to writing more at the moment.

Freedom_for_sum firstly i apoligise for the insults i may have thrown at you for your views. had no idea that your life has been f**ked up thanks to some people. and thats why you have such view us

on the we appoligise for nine eleven
why should we appoligise? we didnt do anthing wronge
the people that commited these acts against the US were created by the US for its needs against the soviets and even so anti US was growing fast amoung them they still armed them.

9/11 had many warnings and the US failed to act thanks to its foreign policy (abdul haque warned the US many times)

there are muslims around the world who will use any excuse to commit murder and for that i apoligise but not for 9/11

Originally posted by bodrul
[...]there are muslims around the world who will use any excuse to commit murder and for that i apoligise but not for 9/11

That's not the point. I'm not apologizing for 9/11 either. I didn't do it. I didn't even come from anywhere near where the people who did it originated from. I was made and born in the US of A. Then I grew up in Malaysia.

I am however sorry this 9/11 thing happened. Sorry for the US of A, sorry for the world, sorry for us normal Muslims, getting flak for it. The people who fomented 9/11 should apologize. Osama and gang. The Wahabbis who influenced him. The people who knew it was coming yet did nothing to warn or prevent it. They all should apologize.

Me? I didn't do it, but I'm sorry it happened though.

Originally posted by Beachcoma
I'm not apologizing for 9/11 either. I didn't do it.

You are right. You shouldn't have to apologize for it at all.

I am however sorry this 9/11 thing happened.

... 'this 9/11 thing' .... you mean 'the 9/11 terrorist attacks'?
There is a difference. Not to be picky or anything, but there is a difference. And, since you said, I'm being a bit cranky these days and am in need of more fruit in my diet, I figure ... what the heck ... I'll go ahead and be cranky and point that out.

Seriously, I don't expect the average muslim on the street to apologize for 9/11. They weren't involved. I expect those involved to pay for it either in this life or the next. I would also expect those NOT involved to be sorry that it happened, as you are. Unfortunately, we see many who weren't involved in it REJOICING that it happened.

www.youtube.com...

Sickening, eh?

well this'll be about the hundredth time they've done this sort of racist stuff.

Pretty soon all muslims will have to wear a yellow star right? or maybe a yellow cresent moon.

Originally posted by Syrian Sister
well this'll be about the hundredth time they've done this sort of racist stuff.

Yeah; but only becaue this is "about the hundreth time" some islamo-moron has engaged in inappropriate behavior that cause them to be removed from the airplane.

The Imams weren't just praying. There were intentionally being obnoxious; making anti-American statements, and exibiting behavior that passengers don't normally engage in: Seat belt extenders; getting out of their seat and moving to other seats etc etc etc.

What do you think would happen to me if I was invited to come to a mosque to "learn" about Islam and while inside, I removed my shirt; started waving it around, and yelling "Down with Islam!!" Mohamed was a terrorist etc, etc, etc. Do you think they would just politely ask me to sit down and please keep quiet? NO!! They would kick my ass out!! Exactly what happened to those Imams!! I hope USAirways sues them collectively.

Originally posted by Syrian Sister
Pretty soon all muslims will have to wear a yellow star right? or maybe a yellow cresent moon.

Not at all. The behavior of Islamo-nutjobs is enough; if only we can break from the bonds of political correctness and see Muslims, such as those Imams and members of CAIR for what they are: Fundamentalists who would love to see Islam become the dominant religion in America with the Qur'an being the highest text of authority and Constitutional Law replaced with Sharia Law. Fundamentalists who use our legal system to foist their beliefs on others and who engage in public displays of idiocy and then scream "Flying while Muslim!!"

I can see it. And the good thing about this whole flying Imams thing is that as Muslims continue to do these things; others will gradually see it as well. It is behavior like this that will eventually backfire on Muslims and make it worse for them.

BTW Syrian Sister: Your signature:

"Now this is the world we live in
And these are the hands were given
Use them and lets start trying
To make it a place worth fighting for."

Implies that you don't believe [your] country is currently worth fighting for. My question is: What would have to change for you to be compelled and willing to fight for it?

[edit on 18-12-2006 by Freedom_for_sum]

Originally posted by Freedom_for_sum

Implies that you don't believe this country is currently worth fighting for (I'm assuming you're in America). My question is: What would have to change for you to be compelled to fight for it?

Freedom....,

She is a teenage girl from Australia according to her and from Syria or so she claims. Most of all her posts are filled with pure hatred towards the US just like the hate within CAIR, you might look some of them up to see the bigger picture.



[edit on 12/18/2006 by shots]

Thanks shots; I appreciate the "heads up" on that fact. The relative anonymity of the interenet often makes it difficult to discern whose on the other end of the "tubes"

I'll still entertain a response from her though because as a teenager she needs to be exposed to more than the left-wing radicalism that has apparently bent her ear.

What do you say Syrian Sister? My previous question is still on the table.

[edit on 18-12-2006 by Freedom_for_sum]

Originally posted by Freedom_for_sum
Implies that you don't believe [your] country is currently worth fighting for. My question is: What would have to change for you to be compelled and willing to fight for it?

This question is truly worthy of its own thread...

While the question is not directly posed to me, I shall answer it as I do not believe my country is currently worth fighting for.

I had to think about this over night, and there's a lot (socially) that I wish would change. I realized that there are very few people that I would actually die for without a second thought - and those people are truly *good* people: trustworthy, honest, virtuous (even if only in some degree)... The key part is that I *know*, without a doubt in my mind, that these people would do the same for me.

But I cannot ask this of the country, nor its people. The value system is not structured to embrace this idea.


So, this is my answer:

I would die for, or at least consider standing up for, my country if it dropped the 'Do as I say, Not as I Do' nonsense.

I'm tired of double standards...

I rebelled when my father tried it, and continue to rebel against any other authority figure (person/country) who embraces this two-faced crap.

If we're going to impose/'suggest' laws and rules of conduct on other countries, then let us follow those rules.



I heard a story about Gandhi - don't know if it's true, but it illustrates the point nicely:

A woman came to Gandhi and asked him to tell her son to stop eating sugar. "He won't listen to me, but I know he'll listen to you." Gandhi told her to come back in 3 weeks. The woman returned with her son, and Gandhi delivered the message and the boy stopped eating sugar. The woman asked Gandhi why she had to wait 3 weeks, and he told her that he, himself, had to stop eating sugar before he could rightfully tell the boy to do so.

How the heck else are we supposed to be role models when we are committing the wrongs that we're telling other people not to do??

[edit on 20-12-2006 by Diseria]

[edit on 20-12-2006 by Diseria]