6 Muslim Imams removed from flight.

They did it so they WOULD get booted off, watch them now they will SUe the Airline and if they win channel funds to one of there Islamic " Charities" AKA terrorist Organisations !!

Shame on these fake Imams.

Deport them.


Then import some people who really do want to live in and appreciate a free country instead of people like these fake Imamas who want to convert a free country into a shackled one by spreading hate and fear.

Originally posted by NumberCruncher
They did it so they WOULD get booted off, watch them now they will SUe the Airline and if they win channel funds to one of there Islamic " Charities" AKA terrorist Organisations !!

Right and I am the queen of England.

Originally posted by NumberCruncher
Shame on these fake Imams.

Fake imams? Are they also fake muslim? Maybe they are also fake human too.
U know what, I bet they are secret CIA agents (non-human) dressed up in human skin to try and fool airport security for fun and mock the stupidity of the human race.

Originally posted by NumberCruncher
Deport them.

Once we figure out what planet they are from. Those damn sneaky clever aliens.

Originally posted by NumberCruncher
Then import some people who really do want to live in and appreciate a free country instead of people like these fake Imamas who want to convert a free country into a shackled one by spreading hate and fear.

I feel a little bit more stupid everytime I read such replies. I can actually physically feel my IQ going down just listening to such ramblings.

this is off topic, but I found an interestingnews story, thought some might be interested in....they can start a new thread if they want, since I've got to hurry to work...

but...just wondering, how would everyone feel if the christians all decided to shun our court systems and decided to deal with domestic violence, assaults, divorces and the like within their own personal courts??

sharia courts operating in Britain??

www.telegraph.co.uk...;jsessionid=Y3UZA1RZGTHK5QFIQMFSFGGAVCBQ0IV0?xml=/news/2006/11/29/nsharia29.xml

and we can have christian courts, courts set up by this group over there, courts set up by this gang over here.....

and then we can have no more unified country, just a bunch of different groups all operating by their own set of rules and laws.

So the scumy pricks were in it for the money eh?
truthfully they deserve to be locked up for that

Actually Terrorist's are more likely to be unemotional, than nervous and scared, as they see it as a honor too die for Allah.

I find it truly amazing though that Terrorism is causing what it is meant too by fear to the population of countrys!

Wow gone for a day and already I miss a lot of great dumb@$$ posts......

diseria i understand the need for open discussion, but come on saying that we don't know all the facts about 9/11 is madness. 9/11 belivers are a cult, and if u research what makes a belief a cult belief, you will see that those disbelievers have the mentality of a cult, more than a serious group of reasearchers. that's why there's a whole section of the boards dedicated to that topic...because you can't have a serious discussion about current events with someone who bases their facts on the "fact that 911 was a inside USA gov job". it just won't work. because in a situation like this where we are talking about the validity of a decision, you HAVE to accept the fact that there were terrorists, or else the convo can go nowhere. because no matter what point i bring up, you could be like "well that's not true b/c the usa gov wants u to belive that anyway" and then the convo is just fantasy conversation. that's why i asked him if he indeed does belive in that conspirocy theory crap, to leave it out of THIS topic so that we can talk about what happened to these people in a reality based convo. i hope u understand what am saying and the reason behind it...

Halfminded......like it your not you are going to have to accept this fact: if you move to another country, you have to abide by THEIR RULES and adapt to THEIR CULTURE. It’s never the other way around. IF you decide to move to china, you can’t go demonstrate in the middle of the street and say “I think you don’t allow your citizens enough freedom of speech! You need to give us more freedom of speech because we are human beings and we deserve it! Communism is bad”. You will be thrown in jail.

Likewise you can’t move to england and demand to drive on the right hand side of the road. You can’t go to a muslim country (as a women) and expect to be given equal rights as men, it will never happen. The person who moves to the other country is the one who has to change and adapt TO THE OTHER COUNTRY, the country does NOT need to adapt to the person.

If you can’t accept that, then I truley pity you because you obviously have no sense of reality.

Just because this is america, and we are more democratic than other countries, doesn’t mean we have to change our way of doing things, or accommodate anyone else who comes to this country. We don’t need to pick up a koren and read it, or try and learn about their value systems. They came to our country, they need to learn about OURS. Now believe me they never have to change their belief system, but if they want to come into the country...they need to understand that it might not be the best idea to pray in that language, in a public place, about to board an airplane, which some islamic extremists used to start a war 5 years ago.

Furthermore, reading about their religion does NOTHING. That’s like saying that reading the bible will inform u about american culture. Culture and religion aren’t neccecarily the same thing. Me reading about their religon will only tell me the gods and religous beliefs that they have.

Are you seriously trying to tell me that those muslim and indian countries don’t treat their woman like second class citizens and make them wear veils over their head and serve the man in every way possible? You honesly wanna lie like that? You seriously wanna tell me that all those countries don’t war with each other over which version of the koran is right? That this group of muslims doesn’t like this other group of muslims because they don’t feel that they worship the “correct” version of islam? That’s the BS u expect me to believe? You wanna honestly try and say that there isn’t a large part of the muslim world that aren’t extreamist? You trying to say that terrorists don’t exist? Seriously man get a grip, instead of trying to tell me I have no right to talk about muslims...because those are some of the things you’ve been implying.

You trying to say that america just made it all up...yeah w/e man I have a bridge I’d like to sell you if you believe that trash. I agree america hasn’t made the best decisions when it comes to who we attack and why, but to blatantly say that america is lying and there are no terrorists, is pure flipery.

there are 2 things you must come to tearms with and accept.....

1. forgeiners must adapt to the rules and customs of the country it is that they move to. i challenge you to find any country where you can move to the country, and expect them to adapt to your rules. As far as i know, one doesn't exist. the individual will ALWAYS have to change or alter their way of doing things slightly, because that's the whole part about having a CULTURE. If they don't like it they seriously can leave. We didn't ask them to come here, and honestly a lot of people would actually be more than happy if they left. So don't expect there to be a new area of american life that is based around muslim beliefs, because it will never happen. America has it's own unique culture and won't change it for anyone. If they don't like it tell them to go back to the sand and camels.

2. radical islamists/terrorists are a REAL problem, so until THEY ARE ALL ERADICATED FROM THE FACE OF THE EARTH, then sometimes innocent people will have to have things like this happen to them, in order to keep they rest of the population safe. IT may not be right, but like i said before...blame the idiots that blow themselves up..not the innocent americans who are just trying to keep theyself and they families safe.

i'm glad to see from previous posts that at least SOME americans see the rational side of this. at least there are still decent people that see for one, this is really not that big a deal..and 2, that if these muslims didn't want trouble, then they should have been more sensitive to how americans feel.

Originally posted by Spawwwn
Halfminded......like it your not you are going to have to accept this fact: if you move to another country, you have to abide by THEIR RULES and adapt to THEIR CULTURE. It’s never the other way around.

Name the RULES the imam broke. What laws or rules did they not abide by?

And correction: You have to abide by rules but dont have to adapt their culture. You can still keep your culture. You just need to understand and respect the other's culture.

Its funny how people keep bringing forth this point and at the same time criticize the laws and culture of middle east.

Originally posted by Spawwwn
Likewise you can’t move to england and demand to drive on the right hand side of the road. You can’t go to a muslim country (as a women) and expect to be given equal rights as men, it will never happen.

Are you talking about walking around half naked??? Their culture does not agree with it so they have those RULES, that everyone who moves there, needs to follow their laws and rules regardless of religion.

Originally posted by Spawwwn
The person who moves to the other country is the one who has to change and adapt TO THE OTHER COUNTRY, the country does NOT need to adapt to the person.

I do not see how this is relevant to this discussion. The imams did not break any laws. They did not force their beliefs on anyone. They did not ask the airport to adapt to their beliefs.

Originally posted by Spawwwn
If you can’t accept that, then I truley pity you because you obviously have no sense of reality.

Thanx for passing that judgment on my intelligence. You must be a very smart person to be able to know so much about me without ever meeting me or talking to me.

Originally posted by Spawwwn
Just because this is america, and we are more democratic than other countries, doesn’t mean we have to change our way of doing things, or accommodate anyone else who comes to this country.

Irrelevant again. Imams did not ask anyone to adapt to theier belief nor did they try to change anything. They only had their own personal prayer in one corner which is not against the law, and it shouldn't be.

Originally posted by Spawwwn
We don’t need to pick up a koren and read it, or try and learn about their value systems.

Ofcourse you dont. You can sit all day and quote Quran and pass judgements and make claims without even knowing anything about the subject. Very intelligent approach.

Originally posted by Spawwwn
They came to our country, they need to learn about OURS.

Your country?? Don't you mean native american's country. And how can you expect them to learn about you when you refuse to do the same and pass such stereotypical judgements.

Originally posted by Spawwwn
Now believe me they never have to change their belief system, but if they want to come into the country...they need to understand that it might not be the best idea to pray in that language, in a public place, about to board an airplane, which some islamic extremists used to start a war 5 years ago.

By your logic, all muslims in america should stop praying. Arabs should not speak in arabic, their native language. That is the most ridiculous argument ever. I can't believe people are actually trying these arguments to justify the mistake they made by openly discriminating agaisnt these imams.

Now, I am gonna ignore the rest of the stuff you wrote because I really dont feel like reading it.

Let me get back to the point.

Do you guys agree it was discrimination on the part of the airline???

If you say NO, then please explain why the airline did not let them fly next day when they were checked thoroughly and were cleared. It was bad enough everyone assumed "Guilty before proven innocent" but wats up with the "Guilty AFTER proven innocent" rule which airline followed. Leave all arguments aside and answer this because it ultimately answers the question of discrimination.

Im telling you these so called " Imams" are just common criminals !! Send them to Gitmo !!


Imam Crims

One air marshal told the Times: “They [the imams] now control all of the entry and exit routes to the plane. That would alarm me.”

But after reading the Washington Times’ coverage of the unnecessary and unsettling behavior of the imams (who had just attended a “fight the power!” imam convention), I think it’s more likely this was a lawsuit set-up.

That is a possibility. Maybe they were trying to F with the airline for a lawsuit set-up. Very much possible.

Or maybe, they were just being themselves and being muslim. Maybe they did not think that their prayer, etc. would affect people on such a large scale.

Watever the case, I am sure they were not a threat to the passengers. What harm could they have possibly caused using those seat belt extensions?
I do agree that muslims should be more careful while flying to avoid such incidents. Not act out of place and such.

Anyway, I hope to see more on this story to get a better idea of what exactly happened.

Originally posted by Spawwwn
because in a situation like this where we are talking about the validity of a decision, you HAVE to accept the fact that there were terrorists, or else the convo can go nowhere. because no matter what point i bring up, you could be like "well that's not true b/c the usa gov wants u to belive that anyway" and then the convo is just fantasy conversation. that's why i asked him if he indeed does belive in that conspirocy theory crap, to leave it out of THIS topic so that we can talk about what happened to these people in a reality based convo. i hope u understand what am saying and the reason behind it...

I understand, but I cannot agree. I'm not saying that this or that was the cause of 9/11, but only that I refuse to pin it on this group or that. I don't know who caused 9/11, I don't know all the facts, so "to have to accept the fact that it was terrorists" doesn't work with me. I don't accept that it was terrorists, no more than an act of the government.

I understand the popular sentiment that it was caused by terrorists. But sentiment does not equal fact. And we do not have all the facts, nor will we ever, so to react and give any definite conclusions is illogical.

In the end, we may have to agree to disagree. I just simply don't see the point in assuming guilt based on popular sentiment and popular media coverage. (Neither one is based on truth.)

Just because this is america, and we are more democratic than other countries, doesn’t mean we have to change our way of doing things, or accommodate anyone else who comes to this country. We don’t need to pick up a koren and read it, or try and learn about their value systems. They came to our country, they need to learn about OURS. Now believe me they never have to change their belief system, but if they want to come into the country...they need to understand that it might not be the best idea to pray in that language, in a public place, about to board an airplane, which some islamic extremists used to start a war 5 years ago.

You're right -- them stepping into the country does not mean that we have to read their books.

Being an educated and enlightened citizen of today's world DOES.

Why are you *so* against learning about other cultures????

Are you seriously trying to tell me that those muslim and indian countries don’t treat their woman like second class citizens and make them wear veils over their head and serve the man in every way possible?

I'm going to tell you this fact: There are some groups of Muslims who do, in fact, treat their women like second-class slaves. There are ALSO MANY groups of Muslims who DO NOT.

Again. Education would teach you this fact.

You wanna honestly try and say that there isn’t a large part of the muslim world that aren’t extreamist?

Honestly, YES. I'm going to say it -- MOST Muslims do not agree with the terrorists, do not condone their activities.

Seriously man get a grip, instead of trying to tell me I have no right to talk about muslims...

I'd argue that you have the RIGHT to talk about anything you want...
BUT, some of the stuff you've spouted belies your ignorance to the topic at hand.

What's the point of discussion if you don't educate yourself as to the issues being discussed?

Spawn. Read this article that I just posted. The Moderate Martyr and you'll begin to understand what I'm talking about.

[edit on 30-11-2006 by Diseria]

[edit on 30-11-2006 by Diseria]

Originally posted by Diseria
Why are you *so* against learning about other cultures????

Maybe they just don't interest him like they interest you. This topic is not as much about culture, as it is about a group of men who were behaving in America with complete disregard for the understandably heightened sense of worry Americans have when it comes to being on a plane with a group of men, who may or may not have been fundamentalists, of the religion that either carried out, or was framed to have carried out (by the government) a terrible attack using planes. So whether terrorists did it, or the government, the fact is it was a group of real or fake muslim men that carried it out. How can you tell either way? If you were on that plane with your children, would you have been completely comfortable because you read some books?

Honestly, YES. I'm going to say it -- MOST Muslims do not agree with the terrorists, do not condone their activities.

These particular muslims were making their opinions opposing our government and the war in Iraq well known from my understanding, I highly doubt they said "On the other hand, the scumbag insurgents who are killing innocent civilians ON PURPOSE are wrong too". And I honestly haven't seen many moderate muslims speaking out against terrorists, not all are extreme of course, but alot of moderates I have had contact with at the least believe we have it coming because of our foreign policy, which may even be correct, but until we are able to change out government's ways we have to be vigilant because many want us to die for them.

What's the point of discussion if you don't educate yourself as to the issues being discussed?

The culture isn't what's being discussed, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe it's part of muslim culture to make spectacles of their prayer sessions by yelling, normally prayer is fairly quiet. It's not part of muslim culture to make their political views that could very well accompany a wish to harm Americans known before boarding a plane in America. It's not part of muslim culture to switch seats without authorization taking up strategic positions just like were taken on 9/11. It's not part of muslim culture for skinny people to ask for seatbelt extenders, then place them on the floor. This being PC thing at all costs is ridiculous beyond belief, MANY muslims fly daily without incident. The behavior of those men had nothing to do with culture, and everything to do with sinister intent of some kind, whether it was a real threat, a "dry run", or just setting up a lawsuit.

Many can say they wouldn't be worried and would sacrifice themselves before appearing to be prejudice. So I ask you this, I don't know if you have kids, but if you do, would you have been comfortable with your children on that flight with those men acting the way they did? You don't have to answer, but if you do please be honest....

Originally posted by 27jd
Maybe they just don't interest him like they interest you.

While I understand that these men may have been trying to make a stunt out of the whole thing, I think it important to learn about other cultures (period), nevermind the fact that we're 'at war' with these people.. overseas and here at home. How many threads have you seen that have 'islamofacist', or 'eradicate them' or 'send them to gitmo' and the like? That, to me, shows extreme ignorance because *obviously* these people have not taken it upon themselves to *learn* about other people, why they think the way they do, and how we ALL can work towards changing that..

I firmly believe that there is a logic behind people's actions, no matter how twisted it might be.

While culture may not be the head topic, it plays into every discussion about Islam -- we do not understand their motives, and instead of *trying* to understand, we damn them outright. That makes absolutely no sense.

This topic is not as much about culture, as it is about a group of men who were behaving in America with complete disregard for the understandably heightened sense of worry Americans have when it comes to being on a plane with a group of men, who may or may not have been fundamentalists, of the religion that either carried out, or was framed to have carried out (by the government) a terrible attack using planes. So whether terrorists did it, or the government, the fact is it was a group of real or fake muslim men that carried it out. How can you tell either way?

I cannot tell either way, so I refuse to say one way or the other. Because it was blamed on muslims, does not mean that they *are* the ones who started it. I will not negate that they may have, and I will not negate that they definitely did not. I just see no point in throwing stones of blame when we cannot make a truthful decision one way or the other.

If you were on that plane with your children, would you have been completely comfortable because you read some books?

No. However, I would have at least a bare understanding of what they were doing, and, more importantly, would have shown my children how to act and gone over to them and respectfully asked them about their actions.

And I honestly haven't seen many moderate muslims speaking out against terrorists, not all are extreme of course, but alot of moderates I have had contact with at the least believe we have it coming because of our foreign policy, which may even be correct, but until we are able to change out government's ways we have to be vigilant because many want us to die for them.

Check out this article which shows that some Muslims have been trying to work towards a better society since the late 60's.

In understanding what these people believe, what they think, how they view us -- we are better able to understand how our country might be changed. Maybe they have a point that we're stubbornly refusing to acknowlege because of this reactionary 'islamofascist' crap?

The majority of things that I see that need to change are a on social level -- nothing that any govt. election would change. ...just like in the article 'The Moderate Martyr'.. social change takes time, I understand that. But I don't see the govt. changing its profiteering tune anytime soon.

The culture isn't what's being discussed, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe it's part of muslim culture to make spectacles of their prayer sessions by yelling, normally prayer is fairly quiet. It's not part of muslim culture to make their political views that could very well accompany a wish to harm Americans known before boarding a plane in America. It's not part of muslim culture to switch seats without authorization taking up strategic positions just like were taken on 9/11. It's not part of muslim culture for skinny people to ask for seatbelt extenders, then place them on the floor. This being PC thing at all costs is ridiculous beyond belief, MANY muslims fly daily without incident. The behavior of those men had nothing to do with culture, and everything to do with sinister intent of some kind, whether it was a real threat, a "dry run", or just setting up a lawsuit.

While your words are true -- without some knowledge of their culture, how would you have been able to tell me that that they don't shout their prayers...? (just sayin')

With regards to every other detail you mentioned here: I will grant that at this point in time, it is very apparent that these Imams were setting a scene up to draw attention to themselves. I will not argue against that.

Many can say they wouldn't be worried and would sacrifice themselves before appearing to be prejudice. So I ask you this, I don't know if you have kids, but if you do, would you have been comfortable with your children on that flight with those men acting the way they did? You don't have to answer, but if you do please be honest....

I don't have kids, but I'll answer the question as honestly as I can with the best understanding that I have.
If I were standing in the airport at that very moment, as I said above, I'd go over and ask them. If I were on the plane, and saw them put their seatbelts on the floor, again, I'd ask. (Maybe they have some 'reason' that I had not thought of -- how the heck would I know without asking? Maybe they have OCD or something...)

I see no point in trying to 'protect' my children, or any children, from people acting weird (what great examples of how *not* to act!), and I see no point in standing idly by and not engaging people in conversation about their actions... unless they are obviously deranged or mentally ill, in which case the risk out-weighs the possible reward.

I believe that every person is a human being and should get the same respect as anyone else.

If I truly believe that, then I *must* enact that infront of children, indeed people in general. What's the point of having a value/principle that goes spoken, but is never enacted?

Edited to add: 'What disquited Confucius was 'leaving virtue untended and learning unperfected, hearing about what is right but not managing either to turn toward it or to reform what evil is' (Taken from H. Fingarette's Confucius, p. 3)

[edit on 30-11-2006 by Diseria]

Originally posted by 27jd
So I ask you this, I don't know if you have kids, but if you do, would you have been comfortable with your children on that flight with those men acting the way they did? You don't have to answer, but if you do please be honest....

I would be worried too. You never know what can happen, always good to take precautions. I agree that the imams cud have tried to not 'stand out' in the crowd if they were indeed very loud.

My issue with the airline is that when everyhting was cleared, even then they did not allow the imams to fly with them the next day. That is just height of paranoia and stupidity. These acts not only scare people unnecessarily but also help in fueling the tension between muslims and non-muslims these days. I am sure the imams could not have caused any harm the next day by flying with them. Infact, after the incident they would have been more careful about their actions and attitude. But, instead the airline refused, and automatically pissed off muslims worldwide and added more wood to the fire already burning. Its the stupidity that pisses me off.

I am a muslim and I have to deal with such things everyday. I go through more security checks while flying than the average Joe. I have a broken leg with a metal rod in it which also causes concern at the airport when it starts beeping under the metal detector. But I go through all this happily because I know it is necessary for them to do so. But incidents like these, where they cause unnecessary commotion is what pisses me off. I get more scared to fly everytime thinking what if they pull me aside for questioning for whatever reason and what if I go through something similar.

After this incident occurred, Muslim Imams, Christian Priests, and Jewish Rabbi all gathered together to stage a "pray-in" protest.

All three faiths prayed in the airport and opposed any racial profiling. The story can be read here.

It's good to see what good deeds these three faiths coming together can do.

[edit on 30-11-2006 by DJMessiah]

Originally posted by Diseria
I cannot tell either way, so I refuse to say one way or the other. Because it was blamed on muslims, does not mean that they *are* the ones who started it. I will not negate that they may have, and I will not negate that they definitely did not. I just see no point in throwing stones of blame when we cannot make a truthful decision one way or the other.

My point was, even if 9/11 was carried out by people the government tricked into killing themselves and pretending to be muslim, there's no way to tell that these weren't more fake muslims that were going to carry out another attack false flag attack to scare Americans further, and maybe this time the terrorists would have been linked to Iran paving the way for the attack Bush may want so badly before he leaves office.

No. However, I would have at least a bare understanding of what they were doing, and, more importantly, would have shown my children how to act and gone over to them and respectfully asked them about their actions.

I totally respect your civility and wish to understand others, it's a good quality. But do you really think that if they were planning on carrying out an attack they would let you in on their plans because you asked?

The majority of things that I see that need to change are a on social level -- nothing that any govt. election would change. ...just like in the article 'The Moderate Martyr'.. social change takes time, I understand that. But I don't see the govt. changing its profiteering tune anytime soon.

I really don't see muslims mistreated in any way here, on the ground. I know many and I am extremely friendly to anybody who is friendly to me. Socially, they seem to be treated like anybody else, it's just the plane thing that makes people nervous.

While your words are true -- without some knowledge of their culture, how would you have been able to tell me that that they don't shout their prayers...? (just sayin')

True, and having knowledge would tell me they were acting strangely, perhaps other passengers had that knowledge as well and that may be why they were so concerned, not just because there were muslims on a plane.

If I were standing in the airport at that very moment, as I said above, I'd go over and ask them. If I were on the plane, and saw them put their seatbelts on the floor, again, I'd ask. (Maybe they have some 'reason' that I had not thought of -- how the heck would I know without asking? Maybe they have OCD or something...)

Yeah, but again, they're not gonna tell you they plan on killing everybody. And having children, I can tell you I would NEVER gamble their lives on somebody who is acting strangely's word that they're not gonna kill them in a situation like that. I wouldn't even begin to dream of it. I wouldn't tell my children the reason we were not going to be taking that flight, because I don't want to teach them hate or fear of people who are different, but at the same time I would never risk their lives, ever.

I believe that every person is a human being and should get the same respect as anyone else.

So do I, but I can still respect somebody while taking caution if something doesn't seem right.

Originally posted by half_minded
My issue with the airline is that when everyhting was cleared, even then they did not allow the imams to fly with them the next day. That is just height of paranoia and stupidity. These acts not only scare people unnecessarily but also help in fueling the tension between muslims and non-muslims these days. I am sure the imams could not have caused any harm the next day by flying with them. Infact, after the incident they would have been more careful about their actions and attitude. But, instead the airline refused, and automatically pissed off muslims worldwide and added more wood to the fire already burning. Its the stupidity that pisses me off.

I agree with you completely here. They should have been allowed to fly once everything was cleared and hopefully they would have been a little more sensitive to peoples concerns.

I get more scared to fly everytime thinking what if they pull me aside for questioning for whatever reason and what if I go through something similar.

I hope you never do, and I'm quite sure though you would go about your business like every other passenger without causing a scene and being completely inconsiderate of others. I would be more than happy to fly on a plane with you and would be outraged if you were treated unfairly just because you're muslim.

[edit on 30-11-2006 by 27jd]

My apologies on taking so long to reply.. 'tis the end of the semester, and homework is a demanding mistress..

Originally posted by 27jd
I totally respect your civility and wish to understand others, it's a good quality. But do you really think that if they were planning on carrying out an attack they would let you in on their plans because you asked?

No, I don't think they'd politely tell me their plans. However, unless they are truly clever, their behavior in conversation would bely their plans... (the same as you can tell when a person is lying..)

Yeah, but again, they're not gonna tell you they plan on killing everybody. And having children, I can tell you I would NEVER gamble their lives on somebody who is acting strangely's word that they're not gonna kill them in a situation like that. I wouldn't even begin to dream of it. I wouldn't tell my children the reason we were not going to be taking that flight, because I don't want to teach them hate or fear of people who are different, but at the same time I would never risk their lives, ever.

I completely respect your choice.

However, if you had been standing in line, seen these muslims praying 'oddly', and had chosen to walk away... If your child asked why -- I think it'd be fair game to explain that *these particular* muslims were behaving strangely.. This would not instill fear nor hatred of an entire people, but show them to watch people as individuals.. teach them to look out for the world's weirdos...


When I was 4, and father lead me across the street because of some strange looking/acting person, he'd explain (after the other person passed) why he'd done so. Either they looked suspicious, acted weird, or maybe he'd seen them doing something odd/wrong the other day... He'd offer some explanation that did not cast an entire ethnicity of people in a bad light, but those individuals... because *those individual's* actions were shady/untrust-worthy.


Of course, lots of people think that I carry myself strangely, dress even stranger (okay, I'll admit to that one ).. that I am, in general, an odd duck. Most people don't like me and don't talk to me, even though I do nothing but polite and respectful.
I've had people lead their kids across the street. While it irked me (because I did absolutely nothing outright that should have denoted any 'bad intent'), I was not angry with those people because they were exercising their caution with their children. However, as I've gotten older, the kids are still lead across the street, but more adults/teens come up to me and engage me in conversation... trying to understand.

I respect both, but I appreciate people willing to ask me why, instead of make judgements on my inner character based on my appearance. (at least let me start talking to myself before you think I'm completely deranged! )

Here is a link to the police report

Police report blurry PDF





After further time with this incident.


The question I raise is....... Why did many of the imans ask for seat belt extensions when they were not needed by the weight and build? This clearly strikes me as an odd request. It is a possible weapon, and when many in a group request it, when not needed is the biggest red flag that can be flashing that something is not right. And coming from a religous leaders is even more shocking, and shows a lack of character to get a rise out of the system.

Also one of the imans after he was deplaned ripped up and threw some papers in the trash. This was later recovered, but I could not figure out what it was? Could have been a gum wrapper. But it had writing on it.

One flight attendant that was dead heading felt that one iman was faking being blind. Is that iman really blind as reported or was he faking being blind?

The imans were heard to say things about osama bin laden, the USA, and Saddam.

The six split up in 3 groups of two in the front, middle and back of the plane. This is odd to me also.


To with the asking of seat belt extensions with no need is a red flag that I would chuck off people if several in a traveling group asked for.

If you don't agree, well be a passenger on that plane, and go fly away and see.

You can say profiling all you want, but the imans are the ones who esclated the situation, that the greater good of the planes passengers were possibly at risk.

A decison was made and I agree with it.

Originally posted by Diseria
My apologies on taking so long to reply.. 'tis the end of the semester, and homework is a demanding mistress..

How dare you carry on a life away from the internet!

No, I don't think they'd politely tell me their plans. However, unless they are truly clever, their behavior in conversation would bely their plans... (the same as you can tell when a person is lying..)

Well, when somebody trains long and hard enough to keep cool and not let their behavior give them away, they can be pretty clever. All I'm saying is their behavior on many levels indicated some kind of malice, whether it was just to be a-holes and mess with people, or an actual threat, it's not worth the gamble.

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If your child asked why -- I think it'd be fair game to explain that *these particular* muslims were behaving strangely.. This would not instill fear nor hatred of an entire people, but show them to watch people as individuals.. teach them to look out for the world's weirdos...

Absolutely. I agree 100% and I will never teach my children to judge anybody based on anything but their actions.

Of course, lots of people think that I carry myself strangely, dress even stranger (okay, I'll admit to that one

).. that I am, in general, an odd duck. Most people don't like me and don't talk to me, even though I do nothing but polite and respectful.

Well, we're in the same boat there. My appearance would offend people in public ALL the time, lol. They were especially fond of Marilyn Manson shirts. And like you I was respectful, usually.



[edit on 8-12-2006 by 27jd]