Originally posted by 27jd
Maybe they just don't interest him like they interest you.
While I understand that these men may have been trying to make a stunt out of the whole thing, I think it important to learn about other cultures
(period), nevermind the fact that we're 'at war' with these people.. overseas and here at home. How many threads have you seen that have
'islamofacist', or 'eradicate them' or 'send them to gitmo' and the like? That, to me, shows extreme ignorance because *obviously* these people
have not taken it upon themselves to *learn* about other people, why they think the way they do, and how we ALL can work towards changing that..
I firmly believe that there is a logic behind people's actions, no matter how twisted it might be.
While culture may not be the head topic, it plays into every discussion about Islam -- we do not understand their motives, and instead of *trying* to
understand, we damn them outright. That makes absolutely no sense.
This topic is not as much about culture, as it is about a group of men who were behaving in America with complete disregard for the
understandably heightened sense of worry Americans have when it comes to being on a plane with a group of men, who may or may not have been
fundamentalists, of the religion that either carried out, or was framed to have carried out (by the government) a terrible attack using planes. So
whether terrorists did it, or the government, the fact is it was a group of real or fake muslim men that carried it out. How can you tell
I cannot tell either way, so I refuse to say one way or the other. Because it was blamed on muslims, does not mean that they *are* the ones who
started it. I will not negate that they may have, and I will not negate that they definitely did not. I just see no point in throwing stones of blame
when we cannot make a truthful decision one way or the other.
If you were on that plane with your children, would you have been completely comfortable because you read some books?
No. However, I would have at least a bare understanding of what they were doing, and, more importantly, would have shown my children how to act and
gone over to them and respectfully asked them about their actions.
And I honestly haven't seen many moderate muslims speaking out against terrorists, not all are extreme of course, but alot of moderates I have
had contact with at the least believe we have it coming because of our foreign policy, which may even be correct, but until we are able to change out
government's ways we have to be vigilant because many want us to die for them.
Check out this article
which shows that some Muslims have been trying to work
towards a better society since the late 60's.
In understanding what these people believe, what they think, how they view us -- we are better able to understand how our country might be changed.
Maybe they have a point that we're stubbornly refusing to acknowlege because of this reactionary 'islamofascist' crap?
The majority of things that I see that need to change are a on social level -- nothing that any govt. election would change. ...just like in the
article 'The Moderate Martyr'.. social change takes time, I understand that. But I don't see the govt. changing its profiteering tune anytime
The culture isn't what's being discussed, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe it's part of muslim culture to make spectacles of
their prayer sessions by yelling, normally prayer is fairly quiet. It's not part of muslim culture to make their political views that could very well
accompany a wish to harm Americans known before boarding a plane in America. It's not part of muslim culture to switch seats without
authorization taking up strategic positions just like were taken on 9/11. It's not part of muslim culture for skinny people to ask for seatbelt
extenders, then place them on the floor. This being PC thing at all costs is ridiculous beyond belief, MANY muslims fly daily without incident. The
behavior of those men had nothing to do with culture, and everything to do with sinister intent of some kind, whether it was a real threat, a "dry
run", or just setting up a lawsuit.
While your words are true -- without some knowledge of their culture, how would you have been able to tell me that that they don't shout their
prayers...? (just sayin')
With regards to every other detail you mentioned here: I will grant that at this point in time, it is very apparent that these Imams were setting a
scene up to draw attention to themselves. I will not argue against that.
Many can say they wouldn't be worried and would sacrifice themselves before appearing to be prejudice. So I ask you this, I don't know if you
have kids, but if you do, would you have been comfortable with your children on that flight with those men acting the way they did? You don't have to
answer, but if you do please be honest....
I don't have kids, but I'll answer the question as honestly as I can with the best understanding that I have.
If I were standing in the airport at that very moment, as I said above, I'd go over and ask them. If I were on the plane, and saw them put their
seatbelts on the floor, again, I'd ask. (Maybe they have some 'reason' that I had not thought of -- how the heck would I know without asking? Maybe
they have OCD or something...)
I see no point in trying to 'protect' my children, or any children, from people acting weird (what great examples of how *not* to act!), and I see
no point in standing idly by and not engaging people in conversation about their actions... unless they are obviously deranged or mentally ill, in
which case the risk out-weighs the possible reward.
I believe that every person is a human being and should get the same respect as anyone else.
If I truly believe that, then I *must* enact that infront of children, indeed people in general. What's the point of having a value/principle that
goes spoken, but is never enacted?
Edited to add: 'What disquited Confucius was 'leaving virtue untended and learning unperfected, hearing about what is right but not managing
either to turn toward it or to reform what evil is
' (Taken from H. Fingarette's Confucius, p. 3)
[edit on 30-11-2006 by Diseria]