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6 Muslim Imams removed from flight.

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posted on Nov, 23 2006 @ 10:45 AM
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Originally posted by JBurns
Raises hand.

People shouldn't have to fly in fear. Those 6 people should be angry at terrorists for creating this type of atmosphere, not the airline.

How couldn't you have baggage for any extended period of time? Unless maybe they chose to not shower.


[edit on 11/23/2006 by JBurns]


lets see people that plan a short trip dont take any baggage.
didnt know it was against the law or uncommon not to take any baggag

people shouldnt have to feer to be prosicuted for who they are or what they look like.

angry at the terrorists?

with this amount of discrimination i wouldnt be suprised if hatred towards the morons who increase fear in others increases the hate towards the americans.

and i still stick with my org reply those 6 should sue the air lines for discrimination
they paid for a service and were turned away because of a passanger who was scared to be on the same flight. those that do that should them selves leave the flight




posted on Nov, 23 2006 @ 02:58 PM
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The bottom line is this: those 6 MEN acted suspicious and LOOKED suspicious. In a time where 9/11 were brought down by Arab Muslim radicals, plane plots being discovered, and Muslim radicals calling for the killings of innocent Americans... PEOPLE ARE FEARFUL for their LIVES.

Honestly, this shouldn't surprise anyone - people are AFRAID to die. Who isn't? When 6 Muslim men, dressed in a traditional Muslim attire BOARD a plane acting and looking suspiciously, WHO WOULDN'T be a little fearful? Hell, if my family was on that same flight, I wouldn't just stand around HOPING that nothing will happen - I'D DO SOMETHING. It may not be politically correct, but when it comes to the lives of MANY innocent people onboard, who gives a crap. It's better safe than sorry.

And why did those 6 choose to dress the way they did. They know VERY damn well that their attire would cause fear and apprehension. Is it against Islamic law to dress NORMALLY while boarding a plane and then change to whatever it is they wear afterwards? They know pretty damn well they'd insight fear.



posted on Nov, 23 2006 @ 03:15 PM
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Originally posted by k4rupt
And why did those 6 choose to dress the way they did. They know VERY damn well that their attire would cause fear and apprehension. Is it against Islamic law to dress NORMALLY while boarding a plane and then change to whatever it is they wear afterwards? They know pretty damn well they'd insight fear.


last time i checked there isnt a law that forbids someone to wear what they want. screw what others think

they chose to wear islamic clouthes and they damn have the right to do so.
and no it isnt gainst islamic law to wear what you want (and im a prime example of that, prob the only one out of 3 brothers that prefers to wear a suit on eid)

their entire world causes fear what a load of BS




[edit on 23-11-2006 by bodrul]



posted on Nov, 23 2006 @ 04:27 PM
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Originally posted by bodrul
last time i checked there isnt a law that forbids someone to wear what they want. screw what others think


No, you're right there isn't. However, as I've stated before, a business has a right to refuse service to whomever based on whatever they choose. And "screw what others think" doesn't always get you very far wen it comes to plane travel. But as you said, they have every right to bring a lawsuit against the airline. They may or may not win....



posted on Nov, 23 2006 @ 08:34 PM
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Originally posted by k4rupt
The bottom line is this: those 6 MEN acted suspicious and LOOKED suspicious. In a time where 9/11 were brought down by Arab Muslim radicals, plane plots being discovered, and Muslim radicals calling for the killings of innocent Americans... PEOPLE ARE FEARFUL for their LIVES.

Honestly, this shouldn't surprise anyone - people are AFRAID to die. Who isn't? When 6 Muslim men, dressed in a traditional Muslim attire BOARD a plane acting and looking suspiciously, WHO WOULDN'T be a little fearful? Hell, if my family was on that same flight, I wouldn't just stand around HOPING that nothing will happen - I'D DO SOMETHING. It may not be politically correct, but when it comes to the lives of MANY innocent people onboard, who gives a crap. It's better safe than sorry.

And why did those 6 choose to dress the way they did. They know VERY damn well that their attire would cause fear and apprehension. Is it against Islamic law to dress NORMALLY while boarding a plane and then change to whatever it is they wear afterwards? They know pretty damn well they'd insight fear.



He makes a good point, it would not have killed them to dress like everyone else for a short while they lived in the US so they obviously knew that people would be worried about having a muslim on their plane in the first place. (I do not care about being politically correct.)



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 02:22 AM
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Originally posted by JamesMcMahn
He makes a good point, it would not have killed them to dress like everyone else for a short while they lived in the US so they obviously knew that people would be worried about having a muslim on their plane in the first place. (I do not care about being politically correct.)


Now you guys have a problem with the way they were dressed??????? OMG this argument is getting more ridiculous by the minute. You guys really need to go out there and see the world.

Fly any airline in the middle east or near areas. They are full of arabic people in their 'arabic clothes'. It is their traditional dress. Millions wear it across the world. They can wear whatever they want as long as they are not naked.



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 02:42 AM
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I've always been for being PI, at least theyre doing something



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 04:56 AM
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ummm....but, but....
if Cair didn't want didn't want their Immans harrassed, maybe they should have checked their actions BEFORE 9/11 and restrained from passing on all those "kill the infidels" speeches from their fellow Immans in the middle east and asia?
I mean, if I don't want to be harassed, well, I don't walk through the store with heavy coat on in the middle of the summer...I don't walk into the bank with my hand formed in the shape of a gun pointing outward in my pocket....I don't raise the suspicion before hand..it's common sense. the Immans with the "kill the infidels" speeches raised the suspicion of alot of people in the world. the organizations like cair, helped carry it on, and then a few took the words to heart and flew some planes into two buildings full of people....and that cemented that suspicion in many...and our fine government gladly lept at the chance to use this suspicion for their own pr. as a result, alot of people are faced with one great big hassle when they board a plane. mothers are forced to drink breast milk...kids find their names on no fly list, ect. ect. ect....
ya know what, six little Immans all dresses in arab robes standing up chanting prayers on a plane SHOULD raise more suspicion than a mother weighted down with diapers and bottles pushing a stoller with a crying baby within!!! I'd be very disappointed if it didn't raise more concern! after all...these Immans are affiliated with cair, the messenger in the past of the "kill the infidel" speeches that were made by their fellow Immans in other countries. Who knows, they may have passed these speeches onto their own followers here in the states... They are a part of that which helped raise the level of suspicion....WE ALL HAVE TO LIVE WITH THE RESULT!!! anyone who thinks that they should be exempt from this simply because they are of the same race or religion as the attackers are nuts!!! it's like saying someone with a big bulky coat walking through the store on a hot summer day shouldn't be suspected of anything whatsoever because the person happens to be a minority....so go harassed the white girl over there who just rushed in to by the bottle of aspirin on her way to work!!



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 05:02 AM
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dawnstar,

These imams did not do anything that should be considered suspicious or threatnening. Even if some things were considered suspicious, they should have been allowed back on plane after the screening.

I would suspect a guy with a long coat in a store. But after I have checked him thoroughly to see he is not conceiling anything, I would apologize to him and let him carry on rather than kick him out of store. The arguments you made are not comparable. You have a right to be cautious based on suspicion, but the suspicion should be well founded and after the rescreening they should have been allowed to fly unless they were found to be threatening or carrying anything danegerous or any such thing, which was not the case.

And you supporting the argument that these imams should have been discrimanted against just because of their 'looks' is not even worth arguing about because its ridiculous.

[edit on 24-11-2006 by half_minded]



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 09:27 AM
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Originally posted by half_minded
These imams did not do anything that should be considered suspicious or threatnening. Even if some things were considered suspicious, they should have been allowed back on plane after the screening.



Just what may I ask makes them so special? Have you ever watched the reality TV series titled Airline shown in the US and UK? Assuming you have not here is a link to an episode guide. Read it and you will find that normal non Muslims are routinely removed or prohibited from flying for far less reasons then this.



[edit on 11/24/2006 by shots]



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 09:48 AM
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You can pretty much guarantee that the airline personnel had their eye on these folks just as much as any passenger. If it had simply been do to a passenger complaint they would have calmed the passenger down, given assurances, and let them continue on the flight.
The fact of the matter is that they were acting up in the terminal before getting on the plane. Putting on a big display of praying, and dressing in non-standard fashion. Things that you can get away with in other locations do not apply to an airport terminal. Even pre-911 acting up in a terminal was one of the easiest ways to get yourself arrested in the country. These Imams are 100% at fault, they should have dressed in standard clothing and had their prayer meeting before entering the airport.
The Airport is not a Mosque, and considering that folks are justifiably leery in boarding aircraft with middle-eastern people to begin with; let alone that they were acting in a fashion that would lead any reasonable person to believe that they were planning on it being a one way trip to see their god, the airline handled it appropriately.

This comes down to one thing only…
Religious dress,
Religious ceremony,
No luggage
Would this strike any rational person as being suspect behavior?

If yes, then they were acting inappropriately and needed to be removed…



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 10:05 AM
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So basically what you all are saying is that a muslim religious person who prays his prayers at the time of day he is supposed to is automatically a terrorist?

All of you are basing these on one speculation. You guys are assuming that all muslims are terrorists. Therefore, muslim dress + muslim prayer = Plane blowing up.

Ridiculous.



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 10:11 AM
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No I am saying that acting out in an airport terminal is grounds to be removed from the airport, and possibly be arrested or detained for questioning even pre-911. You can pray, but do it quietly to yourself.

The same thing would apply to a Christian group that made a big prayer spectacle in the terminal before getting on a flight. Praying like that tends to make people who are already often afraid of flying more apprehensive about getting on a flight.

The point is that an airport terminal is an area to be on your best behavior. I once had the police come and remove a guy because he threw a hissy fit about not getting on a flight and was beating up a telephone in the smoking area.


[edit on 11/24/2006 by defcon5]



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 10:24 AM
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Originally posted by defcon5
You can pretty much guarantee that the airline personnel had their eye on these folks just as much as any passenger.


Why would they? These guys went through security check like all other passengers. They were removed from the plane after passing all security checks. We all know the amount of security checks that take place before boarding. It is virtually impossible for terrorists to hijack a plane these days.


Originally posted by defcon5
If it had simply been do to a passenger complaint they would have calmed the passenger down, given assurances, and let them continue on the flight.


It was simply due to a passenger 'complaint'. The complaint was a note saying 'Suspicious Arabic Men'. That means the complaint was because of the fact that the imams looked arabic.


Originally posted by defcon5
The fact of the matter is that they were acting up in the terminal before getting on the plane. Putting on a big display of praying, and dressing in non-standard fashion.


Describe this 'acting up' you are talking about. Muslims always pray in a group. One guy leads and the others behind him form a horizontal queue and follow. The leading guy is supposed to say the prayer loud enough for the other people (behind him) to hear. Anyone closeby can hear the prayer. I see people praying all the time everywhere. So why is muslim prayer called acting up?
Dressing in non-standard fashion??? You do know that you are not the only people living on earth??? Have you ever been out of US. Have you seen the different types of clothes people wear. How does that make them dangerous. A rapist down the street cold wear jeans, that does not mean everyone who wears jeans are rapists. What a dumb argument you have put forth. Unbelievable.


Originally posted by defcon5
Things that you can get away with in other locations do not apply to an airport terminal.


What were they trying to get away with? Being muslim?


Originally posted by defcon5
Even pre-911 acting up in a terminal was one of the easiest ways to get yourself arrested in the country.


Again, describe what you mean acting up??


Originally posted by defcon5
These Imams are 100% at fault, they should have dressed in standard clothing and had their prayer meeting before entering the airport.


Prayer times are fixed. I wont bother arguing about the clothes anymore because its the most stupid argument.


Originally posted by defcon5
The Airport is not a Mosque, and considering that folks are justifiably leery in boarding aircraft with middle-eastern people to begin with;


There is no law that states that you cant pray in the airport. And these guys were not even in anyones way.


Originally posted by defcon5
let alone that they were acting in a fashion that would lead any reasonable person to believe that they were planning on it being a one way trip to see their god, the airline handled it appropriately.


Very steretypical. Again, I dont see what 'acting in a fashion' you are talking about that would lead any sane person to belive that they were terrorists.


Originally posted by defcon5
This comes down to one thing only…
Religious dress,


Stupid argument. Its not religious dress. Its traditional arabic dress which millions wear worldwide.


Originally posted by defcon5
Religious ceremony,


Its just an afternoon prayer. Again, millions do it worldwide. No laws against it.


Originally posted by defcon5
No luggage


Correction. No checked luggage. They went for a conference so obviously they are not gonna carry many bags. The reports do not say if they had hand baggage. I am sure they did. Otherwise they would have been stopped for screening even before they ever got on the plane.


Originally posted by defcon5
Would this strike any rational person as being suspect behavior?


Not really. But a overly paranoid, stereotyping person with no common sense? maybe.


Originally posted by defcon5
If yes, then they were acting inappropriately and needed to be removed…


If yes?? But its actually No. So they were not acting inappropriately and did not need to be removed after going through security check first and then rescreening and then 5 hours of questioning. If the airline did have any proof that these guys were a threat then they would have mentioned it to justify their actions more solidly. They were removed solely on dumb speculation and stereotyping.



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 10:27 AM
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Originally posted by shots
Just what may I ask makes them so special?


They were not special. But they were made special by paranoid passenger and stupid steretyping.


Originally posted by shots
Have you ever watched the reality TV series titled Airline shown in the US and UK? Assuming you have not here is a link to an episode guide. Read it and you will find that normal non Muslims are routinely removed or prohibited from flying for far less reasons then this.


No I havent watched and it does not matter. This is a different case. In this case, I do not see any reasons for having the men removed. Still if you want to make a point, Post one such incident in which a non-muslim was removed rom flight due to something FAR LESS than this.



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 10:29 AM
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Originally posted by defcon5
No I am saying that acting out in an airport terminal is grounds to be removed from the airport, and possibly be arrested or detained for questioning even pre-911. You can pray, but do it quietly to yourself.


I already explained why it cant be done very quitely but even then we do not know how loud they were other than the words of one passenger. People talk to each other in terminals. Some people sitting close by can hear them. Same goes with prayer. I am sure they were not excessivly loud. Again, its the word of the passenger VS the imams words.



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 10:36 AM
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Originally posted by defcon5

The same thing would apply to a Christian group that made a big prayer spectacle in the terminal before getting on a flight. Praying like that tends to make people who are already often afraid of flying more apprehensive about getting on a flight.

[edit on 11/24/2006 by defcon5]


Do you honestly believe that? If a Christian group was praying they would NOT be told to leave. At best they would be told to keep the praying noise to a minimum and then allowed to continue on.

As for those of you petty enough to argue about their attire. Using your own logic, we shouldnt allow traditional african american, buddhist monk, priests, nuns, or any other person of cloth to be allowed to wear their religious attire on a flight because it may be offensive to another persons religous beliefs or be misconstrued to represent some other sterotypical nonsense such as looking arab = terrorist.

I am willing to bet that most of the posters here, including the ignorant and scared over nothing person who wrote the letter, has never interacted with a muslim before because if you have you would not be acting and thinking the way you do.

Good Job Fox news, Glen Beck and all the other anti-muslim propagandist.



ps very good points half_minded. wats for good logic

[edit on 24-11-2006 by xEphon]



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 10:59 AM
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Let’s see if I can make this any simpler for you:

When you go to an airport this is an appropriate way to act:

1) Dress in casual, or business casual clothing. Nothing that is going to be considered inappropriate. (We have seen folks removed because of poor clothing choices before on this site. Ex: the woman that wore an obscene anti-bush shirt)
2) Check in, show ID, answer questions
3) Go through security and comply with what they ask of you without any smart-a$$ remarks, arguments, etc.
4) Check in at the gate, if you have some seating issue or other then discuss this calmly with the agent, throwing a fit at the gate is grounds to be arrested.
5) Sit your buttocks in a seat and wait for your flight to board, or go sit in a cafeteria.
6) Board your flight.
7) While on your flight sit in your seat and do something to occupy yourself, group bathroom meetings or extensive trips out of your seat are also inappropriate. Again throwing a hissy fit or doing anything to make others around you uncomfortable is grounds to have the police waiting for you at the other end.

Things that are not considered appropriate:
1) unacceptable dress, something that is offensive, something that seems threatening, something that is too revealing, etc.
2) Inappropriate remarks made during the security screening. These account for about 90% of the folks that take a trip to visit the airport police office.
3) Acting up in the terminal, having a big group prayer meeting, throwing a party, getting in a fight with anyone including the gate agent, running in circles screaming at the top of your lungs like a madman, etc.
4) Acting up on the aircraft.

Anything that makes anyone feel like they are in danger, or threatened is a definite no-no. I would say that getting to the gate, getting on your hands and knees to pray, then standing up and putting on a Kamikaze .-band would also be inappropriate behavior.


Originally posted by half_minded
It was simply due to a passenger 'complaint'. The complaint was a note saying 'Suspicious Arabic Men'. That means the complaint was because of the fact that the imams looked arabic.


No. if they were acting suspicious in the terminal the PSA’s already had an eye on them, believe me. They would not remove someone just because a passenger asked them too, there is more to this story then your getting here I 100% guarantee you that. The complaint was most likely the last straw, or was something that they issued to the press to CYA. For all you know it might have been a member of the flight crew that complained and it was simply released to the press as a passenger. There are many things that go on at an airport that folks just don’t know about nor understand. For the most part that is a good thing as there is a lot of stuff that the public should not be privy too.



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 11:04 AM
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Originally posted by half_minded
I already explained why it cant be done very quitely but even then we do not know how loud they were other than the words of one passenger. People talk to each other in terminals. Some people sitting close by can hear them. Same goes with prayer. I am sure they were not excessivly loud. Again, its the word of the passenger VS the imams words.


Are you kidding me, I have seen were a patient in the hospital had to be moved to another room because their roommate was a Muslim and they brought professional wailers to the room screaming at the tops of their lungs for hours on end. This done with 0 regard for the person next to them that was also terminal and dying.

If they cannot do it appropriately and they know its going to be an issue, then they should have chosen an different time of day to fly. What would have happened if the time would have occurred while they were in the air? Then the story would not be “Muslim Imams removed from flight”, but rather “Muslim Imams jumped on by passengers and detained on flight”.

If they cannot follow the same rules as everyone else then they should find a different mode of transport.


[edit on 11/24/2006 by defcon5]



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 11:06 AM
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Originally posted by xEphon
Do you honestly believe that? If a Christian group was praying they would NOT be told to leave. At best they would be told to keep the praying noise to a minimum and then allowed to continue on.


If they did it in a manner that made other passengers uncomfortable, you bet they would be asked to stop or leave.



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