Abducted and raped, young Christian women and girls are driven to suicide in Iraq

Originally posted by xpert11
Perhaps if Iraq is partitioned a small area could allocated To Iraq's minority Christian population. Whether or not Iraq is a large enough geographical area to give the Christians there own state without taking to much land away from the other ethnic groups is the key question.

that could lead to a bunch of possible future scenarios

1: political persecution: such a small area wouldn't get equal representation

2: everything is ok: nothing special happens

3: eventual slaughter: it would concentrate a hated minority for slaughter

there are more, but i don't really have time to get into it now

anyway, i'm not a big fan of partitioning the nation
it may work, but even if it does it will only be a temporary solution
no matter what happens we will have to deal with the kurds, but if we give them their own semi-autonmous region they may attempt to take the regions of turkey they've wanted

so, in the case of these rapes, just reference my earlier posts
people will do bad things under ANY justification you give them

Originally posted by NumberCruncher
Unfortunately theres something for everyone in the Quran and Millions in the World take its 7th centuary text literally.

They twist and read into texts making them suit there own needs.
Heres an example www.iran-bulletin.org...

Extramarital sex is prohibited under Islamic law. To this extent Islam recognises rape as a crime. However rape taking place within the home and prisons is not considered rape and is therefore legal. It is this situation which I wish to address.

So as you can imagine these criminals twist this even further, they could say there home is an Entire country, or there Prison is the entire country they live in.

Heres another example
STORY

In a very bizarre case a Singaporean man has found some verses in the Quran and with them he had convinced his numerous wives that he has the right to have sex with his daughters. Incest of course is not allowed in Islam but this shows the Quran is not clear at all and it can be interpreted in anyway one wants to interpret it.

That sounds just like the bible
people interpreted that anyway one wants to interpret it.
And i see the same family sex scandles going on there to
There are many streams of islam i believe and so for christians.
To say that they are all the same or try to put them in the same corner as each other is like comparing fish with sheep, they are both animals but not the same.

To easy

The mud you are trowing at islam you can trow at most christians

spelling edit


[edit on 25-11-2006 by jaamaan]

Originally posted by jaamaan


That sounds just like the bible
people interpreted that anyway one wants to interpret it.
And i see the same family sex scandles going on there to
There are many streams of islam i believe and so for christians.
To say that they are all the same or try to put them in the same corner as each other is like comparing fish with sheep, they are both animals but not the same.

To easy

The mud you are trowing at islam you can trow at most christians

spelling edit


[edit on 25-11-2006 by jaamaan]

Well said. I especially like how they interpret "spread the word" to mean "Convert as many by force or coercion as possible"

[edit on (11/25/06) by Jade Bridge]

Originally posted by jaamaan
That sounds just like the bible
people interpreted that anyway one wants to interpret it.
And i see the same family sex scandles going on there to
There are many streams of islam i believe and so for christians.
To say that they are all the same or try to put them in the same corner as each other is like comparing fish with sheep, they are both animals but not the same.

To easy

The mud you are trowing at islam you can trow at most christians

Very true Jaamaan, Im not arguing that, but do people actually commit crimes against humanity in the name of how theyve interpret the bible?
Interestingly you dont see Christians crashing planes into buildings, bombing subways, Gangraping out of pure hate, bombing nightclubs, you dont see Christians staging public protest about how they are going to Destroy x religion or x culture now do we ? etc etc so on and so forth.

And if you did you certainly would NOT see the bulk of Christians sit there in Silence like most of Islam does after these kind of attacks!!

Might see it one day if those tolerant 2+ Billion Christians where finally pushed to far thou hey.

I especially like how you said the mud im throwing on Islam can be thrown at MOST Christians, wow man nice way to sum up over a Billion people ( Half of 2 billion plus one = most).


May peace be with you.

[edit on 25-11-2006 by NumberCruncher]

Interestingly you dont see Christians ... bombing nightclubs,

Wikipedia: Eric Robert Rudolph

Rudolph has also confessed to the bombings of an abortion clinic in the Atlanta suburb of Sandy Springs on January 16, 1997, a gay and lesbian nightclub, the Otherside Lounge, in Atlanta on February 21, 1997, injuring five, and an abortion clinic in Birmingham, Alabama on January 29, 1998, killing officer Robert Sanderson and critically injuring nurse Emily Lyons. Rudolph's bombs were made of dynamite surrounded by nails which acted as shrapnel.

And I don't seem to recall any great uprising from Christians over this.
Nor do I expect one, most Christians bear no more responsibility for this nutcase than most Muslims do for Osama Bin Laden.

[edit on 11/25/06 by xmotex]

Erm the odd isolated incident, theres daily occurances ALL over the world of Islamofascist attacks.

Iraq and India and the Sudan and Algeria and Afghanistan and New York and Pakistan and Israel and Russia and Chechnya and the Philippines and Indonesia and Nigeria and England and Thailand and Spain and Egypt and Bangladesh and Saudi Arabia and Ingushetia and Dagestan and Turkey and Kabardino-Balkaria and Morocco and Yemen and Lebanon and France and Uzbekistan and Gaza and Tunisia and Kosovo and Bosnia and Mauritania and Kenya and Eritrea and Syria and Somalia and California and Argentina and Kuwait and Virginia and Ethiopia and Iran and Jordan and United Arab Emirates and Louisiana and Texas and Tanzania and Germany and Australia and Pennsylvania and Belgium and Denmark and East Timor and Qatar and Maryland and Tajikistan and the Netherlands and Scotland and Chad and Canada and China and... whatever else ive missed ...

All of these places and more have suffered Islamofascist attacks in the last decade and you try to compare it with one of the few attacks some nut job did in his perceived version of Christianity ??


Islam has HUGE problems and people keep trying to Deny it, time to face the facts i think!.

Clue yall in that has been going on for quite a while now. Nothing new in many muslum contries its illegal to preach christianity and if cought you can be killed for it. That is one law that has been on their books for a long time. Women have little rights in the middle east and so if your a christian woman your screwed. I know its lame it sucks and in our view its wrong but to them they are a threat and to the islamifaciests (ill probably never spell that one right) they are prime targets.

All you want is to persuade people to join your "kulturkampf" - supposedly between Islam and the West - but what we're really dealing with is a cultural battle within the Islamic world, between violent extremists and a moderate majority, that just like people everywhere, mostly just want to get on with their lives in peace. And also a "culture war" within the west, again between the forces of modernity, and those who want to go back to the Dark Ages.

Thus we see that the majority of terror attacks are not against Westerners, but by fanatics against their fellow Muslims, whom they regard as "takfirs", apostates. Much like people like you regard people like me.

Unfortunately, extremists in both the Islamic and Western spheres seek to protray this as a battle beween civilizations for their own internal political purposes - the Christian right seeks to do so in the west, in order to draw more Westerners into their corner, and the Islamists fanatics seek to do so in the Islamic sphere, in order to get more Muslims into their corner.

I'm not interested in joining the fanatics in either camp - as far as I am concerned they are both my enemies.

[edit on 11/25/06 by xmotex]

Sorry xmotex but i just dont buy your take on it, yes im well aware of troubles within Islam itself but the reason the Islamofascists are attacking Muslims more often is because the West has tight as tight security now a days, we let our guard down (again) we get bombed.

Besides it mainly Iraq where Muslims kill Muslims Shia/Sunni, well thats where the body count is mostly atm anyways.

These problems arnt going to be fixed in a decade or 2, theyll be here till the end of the centuary if we sit here "hoping" for it all to go away.

I dont portray this as a battle of Civilizations (yet) it more like a few Million Islamofascists whom want to destroy the west and they seem to have a morally supportive audience numbering in the 10s of Millions.

Sure theres nutjobs in the West to, but there numbers and agression seem no where near the level of the Islamofascists.

Peace.

Much how like the Mufin? leader in Australia said that women who did not wear a hijab were 'uncovered meat' and thus deserve to be raped. When muslims have leaders that say such things like that how exactly do you expect them to react? Rape is an epidemic in the middle-east. It will blow it out of proportion if you compare it to the rape stats here in the US. Not that I'm giving any rapists in America an excuse, but the fact is that Muslims will use 'rape' against a non-muslim woman as a way to mark their expression or views of the 'infidels'. Just look at Darfur if you don't believe it....
Militant muslims using rape to subjugate non-muslim population. It's everywhere folks and it's beyond disgusting.

Just a subtle, non scientific point here.

Your assuming everyone who "claims" to be a Christian is a Christian, and those who "claim" to be a Muslim is a Muslim. I know that sounds a little ridiculous, but many people will claim to be the majority religion of there country/reason just to keep people out of there business or from prostylizing them.

From personal examples, I know some people who claim to be "christian" and when I have asked them why they say, "well, I celebrate Christmas".

Another personal observation, those that I have met or know who claim Islam, are pretty much "in to it" so to speak, as in go to Mosque, observe most or all of their religions rules and traditions, etc. How ever, many of those that claim Christianity that I have met over the years aren't "in to it" so to speak and often behave directly the opposite. I don't necessarily think they are hypocrits, I just think they don't really know what they are actually claiming, and it's convienent due to their social or family setting.

I am not judging or slaming anyone here, I am a Christian because i am a sinner and am most certainly NOT perfect (no one from any religion is, and no one can be). I am just saying I have met many people that claim a relgion but their actions, words, and deeds show no evidence of that claim or are in stark contrast to it.

I have spoken with may non US citizens, who automaticly assume all Americans are Christians. Wierd.

By the way rape is wrong, it is a sin in most religions, and personally the perps should be put in jail with the key thrown away (or have there pee pee's shot off! !

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
There is no excuse.

But if you stop and think about, packs of Christian boys rape women on a fairly regular basis in America, and nobody blames it on the fact that they're Christian.

Excuse me? Packs of Christian boys raping on a regular basis? I would very much like to see any story you can find about packs of rapists who are identified as Christian;or do you just assume that because they're american boys, they're automatically Christian.
That would be a foolish assumption, indeed. Anybody who regularly commits acts of violence, including rape, are not really Christians as those kinds of things are completely contrary to Christian teaching and belief.

I am very interested in how you came to your conclusion, but I don't really expect you'll provide anything more than your usual anti-christian rhetoric.

[edit on 11/29/2006 by Stormrider]

every single holy spirit on earth will now know god is a absolute manifest

or mabye those just aboard the hokusai gallion

[edit on 29-11-2006 by sturod84]

ITS HAPPEN AGREED ITS UNFORTUNATELY

What a wonderful example of christian beliefs, NumberCruncher Excellent..
You show exactly what makes me not believe in god.. and you show it in a tremendously concentrated way.

Because it might be good to have "hope and belief", but in most cases i just guess it's a distorsion of reality and any possible logic.

I am now going to show you why you are such a wonderful example:

You first come here and post an article about christian women targetted by muslims and even being driven to suicide. You tell us about your assumptions that those are religiously motivated "islamofascist" and apparently this is the only truth you accept.

But then: Watch what happens!

Originally posted by NumberCruncher
HERE

On July 18, 2006, al-Iraqiya broadcasted interview with Dr. Mahmoud al-Mashhadanian about the subject of raping and killing of women by the Iraqi terrorist. After addressing the kidnapping of his own sister; 'Thayer al-Mashhadani' and her guards, the Speaker of the Iraqi National Assembly (Parliament) said: "Why kidnap this Muslim woman, instead of Tayseer; why not kidnap Margaret or Jwan?" The latter are Christian names, the implication being that the terrorists should have kidnapped, raped and killed Christian women instead of his sister.

Yes Woman from all backgrounds get raped, but this shows the Problem of Christian Women being targetted for being Christian!!

Wow did you read that? You post an example of an islamist high-ranked official sister getting raped and killed.

"Yes woman from all backgrounds get raped." BUT WHAT?! You contradict yourself.

Originally posted by NumberCruncher
Because this is a crime against there beliefs/faith/race, these people dont gang rape fellow Muslims just Christians, thats the difference ,its a Hate Crime !! So thats why we hate them for being Muslims as well as being rapists because its part of the Crime they did it Because they are Muslim against Christians, just like they did in Australia as previous poster pointed out and all across the World.

Wrong: You hate them for being muslims. Not we. I do not hate them.
I hate that distorted and confused type of christians even more if you really want to know it. Guess why: Bush does everything in the Name of God. And why does he do it? Because christianism is the western predominating religion.. which has, like other religions, erradicated and opressed/humiliated any other existing religions. If the Minotaur Age maybe rings the bell for you..

As far as i can see Wyrde One is one of the fewer ones providing facts to his arguments or so called "opinions". Btw: I have never heard of Love- or Haterape. Which is plain hilarious.

Originally posted by NumberCruncher

Originally posted by Fett Pinkus

Had Bush never invaded Iraq this would never have happened, and why do they view this as a crusade ? Its all called cause and effect.

Islamofasists rape Christians all over the world, you cannot prove this would not happen if Iraq wasnt invaded.

And besides making excuses for gang rapists is pretty sick.

Islamofascists ;P (What an awful word btw. I wouldn't go bragging around myself using terms like "bushofascist", "westofascist" or "christianofascist" either.)

Talking about Love- or Haterape is pretty sick imho. You ask others to proove that Christians really rape like Islamists do all the same, but I have not seen a slightest motivation from your side to back those ridiculous statements with factual information whereas WyrdeOne, amongst others, does.

And you still have not misprooved him. As you clearly fail to realize the concept of "factual information".

Don't take all of this personal. Maybe it shows you how wrong you are. Maybe it shows you why some people deny christianism. They deny Ignorance. And do see the negative aspects of religions. (Still I respect 'em.. even if we all know into what mess it has driven us in first place. Which is actually caused by the abuse/manipulation of religion.)

So your statement that islam modify their message for needed purposes is not valid either. It is happening with christian religion all the same. You might even be a nice example of this happening? Who knows?

As i said don't take it personal; Because i am trying to remain on topic here.

Don't forget that you told "WyrdeOne" to stop "acting stupid". For what i think, you are really acting stupid in first place.. and you might want to read through the stuff you actually write, again.

And the cumble of ignorance still comes with your ironical greethings at every end:

May Peace Be With You.

(Is this intentional?)

Because if it is the american definition of "peace" (aka war); No thanks!
As Fett Pinkus said.. "Cause and Effect".
If america goes into a war.. it's war. not Peace. Same rules for everyone. (Minus the lies and manipulation.)

Rape and other type of humiliation, violence, agression is one of those beautifully peaceful side-effects of war. That's what you do not want to accept.

This is pointless.. and I hope i could be of help.

Im also glad about WyrdeOne using some serious argumentation.. it once again shows how annoying it is to argument with people who don't care about factual information.. but always keep demanding proofs!

The Archbishop of Canterbury has attacked Iraq strategy and recognised that there is Growing Attacks on Christians in the ME.

HERE

Dr Rowan Williams, head of the Anglican church, said there had been a growing number of attacks on Christians.

stormrider

Excuse me? Packs of Christian boys raping on a regular basis? I would very much like to see any story you can find about packs of rapists who are identified as Christian;or do you just assume that because they're american boys, they're automatically Christian.

Funny thing about that, when a rape occurs in this country, the religion of the attacker(s) is never brought up in the article. Wonder why that is?

Maybe because there's little effort in our media to inflame popular sentiment against Christians?

How would the headlines strike you if they said "Six Christians Gang Rape Fellow Christian" - would you even believe it?

Rapes, and gang rapes, occur every day in the USA - our population is 70-80% Christian. It stands to reason that the vast majority of rapes are committed by self-described Christians.

That would be a foolish assumption, indeed. Anybody who regularly commits acts of violence, including rape, are not really Christians as those kinds of things are completely contrary to Christian teaching and belief.

I'm glad you brought this up. Any Muslim who blows up innocent people is not really a muslim, but you have a problem understanding that because it's the 'other' side, right? Any Muslim who kills himself for any reason is not a real Muslim. Their prophet said "Hurt no one." These barbarians who engage in killing and acts of terrorism have fallen as far from grace as one possibly could.

Islam teaches its adherents to respect Christians and Jews. The prophet had a deep and abiding love for the Christians and the Jews, and he wanted his people to live alongside them in peace. The inspiration for his teachings came from the two dominant religions of the region.

That's how I understand the situation anyway. So your response of 'those aren't real Christians' strikes a chord in me. I agree with you, emphatically. Take that point and carry it through, realize that the murderers and rapists who proclaim themselves to be Muslims are cut from the same cloth. Murderers and rapists of ANY faith are insane and should be cast out from civilized society.

I am very interested in how you came to your conclusion, but I don't really expect you'll provide anything more than your usual anti-christian rhetoric.

Get tossed. I'm not anti-Christian, I'm anti-idiot, and there's no shortage of idiots in any demographic you want to examine.

My 'usual anti-Christian rhetoric', as you put it, care to show some examples? If you've got a leg to stand on, hop around and find some instances where I've been anti-Christian.

If I take issue with individual Christians, perhaps it's because of their individual merits (or lack thereof) and not the religion they ostensibly prescribe to. Fascinating concept, no?

If you ask me, the vast majority of Christians aren't real Christians. Are you a self-proclaimed Christian? Do you wear shoes? Sorry, not a real Christian.

Next!



[edit on 23-12-2006 by WyrdeOne]

Mod Edit: Terms & Conditions Of Use – Please Review This Link.

Mod Note: You Have An Urgent U2U- Click Here.

[edit on 23/12/2006 by Mirthful Me]

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
If you ask me, the vast majority of Christians aren't real Christians. Are you a self-proclaimed Christian? Do you wear shoes? Sorry, not a real Christian.

Hehe...

Umm, I don't get the reference. Where does it say that Christians can't wear shoes?

I'm in agreement tho. Most people who outspokenly claim to be of any faith aren't really of that faith. They just like to use it as an excuse to act holier than thou. Those who quietly hold their beliefs to themselves are much more likely to be "real" faithful... 'cause at least in my opinion, faith is only about you. Not about what you try to force upon others.