Abducted and raped, young Christian women and girls are driven to suicide in Iraq

Christian women are now the Target in Iraq for Rape , torture and Ransom by the Islamofascists.

Story Here

Baghdad (AsiaNews) – Young Christian women and girls have been abducted and released after ransom money was paid only to commit suicide because of the shock, violence and shame they experienced. This is happening in Baghdad where kidnapping has become a growth industry. Criminal gangs are lining their pockets as the number of victims grows and the line-ups at border posts grow even longer with people trying to flee the country.

Meanwhile Iraqi Christians are increasingly scared. Sources in northern Iraq told AsiaNews that “hundreds of families are on the run, fleeing towards the border with Syria.”

Our Military should be accutely aware that alot of these Nutjobs in the Middle East think this is some Christian Crusader War and for that very reason provide extra security to Christians, or safehaven in Western Nations until the problems have been resolved!!

Agreed. They are targetting christians in the islamic world. They should contact churches here in the US and see if any are willing to offer them safe haven. The red cross could transport them to the US.

muslims view this war as an extension of the crusades.

Its not just the Iraqi "nutjobs" doing this

US Soldier Admits Iraq Girl Rape

A US Army soldier has pleaded guilty to raping a 14-year-old Iraqi girl and helping murder her and her family.

So while the US military should be aware of it, they also should be more than aware of their own people.

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
Agreed. They are targetting christians in the islamic world. They should contact churches here in the US and see if any are willing to offer them safe haven. The red cross could transport them to the US.

muslims view this war as an extension of the crusades.

Had Bush never invaded Iraq this would never have happened, and why do they view this as a crusade ? Its all called cause and effect.

Originally posted by Fett Pinkus

Had Bush never invaded Iraq this would never have happened, and why do they view this as a crusade ? Its all called cause and effect.

Islamofasists rape Christians all over the world, you cannot prove this would not happen if Iraq wasnt invaded.

And besides making excuses for gang rapists is pretty sick.

Had Bush never invaded Iraq this would never have happened, and why do they view this as a crusade ? Its all called cause and effect.

Oh really?

Whats the excuse for the pack of Muslim boys who gang raped numerous girls in Sydney a few years ago?

There is no excuse.

But if you stop and think about, packs of Christian boys rape women on a fairly regular basis in America, and nobody blames it on the fact that they're Christian.

Why can't we simply hate rapists for being rapists, instead of hating them for being muslims as well?

Originally posted by Fett Pinkus
Had Bush never invaded Iraq this would never have happened ...

*sigh* I figured someone was going to say that.

Prior to the US liberation of Iraq there were tens of thousands of STATE SPONSORED rapes. Saddam, his sons, and his political party would use rape and torture of women (in front of their families) as a political tool.

For anyone to say that rape in Iraq is Bush's fault is definately NOT looking at the history of Iraq.

Fundamentalists are also raping Islamic girls who don't wear the hijab. It's no longer safe for women of any faith to go out unaccompanied, according to the Baghdad girl blogger.

And of course, no-one wants to be reminded of this, or will be prepared to say I'm excusing those who rape (which of course I'm not), but this didn't happen before the chaos that was unleashed after the invasion.

The US invaded (dragging along the UK, thanks a lot) and then, when Sunni and Shia were starting to unite to kick out the invaders, began a series of covert actions (bombing mosques, forming sectarian death squads) that sowed the seeds of sectarian violence. I think the original idea was "divide and rule" but it's spiraled out of control.

But without all of the above, these things would not have happened.

And people raping in other parts of the world have nothing to do with this. There are rapists and idiots everywhere. This is not news, nor is it relevant to the situation in Iraq.

Yes, Saddam and his thuggish sons were responsible for rapes too. But the scale of the problem has increased massively. Read the girl's blog for a firsthand account of how things have changed. See if she feels liberated. She's now not permitted to work at her old job in IT thanks to the fundamentalists. Before the invasion she had a job, she had some independence from her family, she could walk around alone and feel pretty safe, and she could wear jeans and a blouse and leave her head uncovered without incident.

Now, she can do none of these things.

[edit on 21-11-2006 by rich23]

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
There is no excuse.

But if you stop and think about, packs of Christian boys rape women on a fairly regular basis in America, and nobody blames it on the fact that they're Christian.

Why can't we simply hate rapists for being rapists, instead of hating them for being muslims as well?

Because this is a crime against there beliefs/faith/race, these people dont gang rape fellow Muslims just Christians, thats the difference ,its a Hate Crime !! So thats why we hate them for being Muslims as well as being rapists because its part of the Crime they did it Because they are Muslim against Christians, just like they did in Australia as previous poster pointed out and all across the World.


So these Gangs of Christian Rapists committing attacks all the time in the US, are they against Women of different beliefs? What do you mean by Regular basis? Got some links on American Christian Gang rapists.

Originally posted by rich23
this didn't happen before the chaos that was unleashed after the invasion.

Yes it did. On a MASSIVE scale. And it was state sponsored.

But the scale of the problem has increased massively.

Nope.

FACT is that mass rape was indeed a norm in pre-liberation Iraq. The press didn't report it out of fear of being murdered by Saddam and his political party. Tens of tens of thousands of women and girls were raped and tortured in front of their families by Saddams political party. Many times by Saddams own family.

The scale hasn't increased massively. It is now different criminals doing the raping. Mass rape was there before liberation. Rape is a problem in Iraq, just as it's a problem around the world. Not 'mass rape' like before. It is a problem but it is NOT A PROBLEM because of liberation and definately not in numbers 'massively increased'.

Read the girl's blog

Having Islamic fundis not allow things at her work is a different problem than rape.

Because this is a crime against there beliefs/faith/race, these people dont gang rape fellow Muslims just Christians, thats the difference ,its a Hate Crime !!

Muslims rape Muslims every day. Christians rape Christians every day. If you need links to know that, you aren't paying very close attention to the world around you. Rape is a horrible fact of life that cannot be explained away by pointing the finger at one group or another.

In your eagerness to demonize a group of people you have forsaken logic and reason.

In my opinion, it's quite sufficient to demonize ALL rapists, without undue concern for whatever mumbo jumbo they happen to practice.

A rapist is a rapist, whether he refrains from fish on Fridays, kneels on a little piece of carpet to pray several times a day, or dances with snakes. I personally don't care what the personal beliefs of random rapist X happen to be, the fact that they're a rapist puts them on par with every other worthless, antisocial animal that engages in such violence.

I think it's enough to hate rapists, without concern for their peculiar spiritual leanings, but I guess that's just me.

So thats why we hate them for being Muslims as well as being rapists because its part of the Crime they did it Because they are Muslim against Christians, just like they did in Australia as previous poster pointed out and all across the World.

Why do their motives matter? Is there a case where rape is a justified reaction? Didn't think so...

And the last time I checked, Christian militias were raping their way across Africa (along with Muslim militias).

I think I'm starting to understand your complex though. You're a Christian, and they're Muslims, so you perceive it as an Us Vs. Them situation.

Rock on with that. Let me know how it works out for you. I think there's enough horror in the world without injecting a bunch of sectarian hatred into the mix. The Christian and Muslims faiths, at the core, are very similar.

In the last 1k+ years a lot of nutters have corrupted and usurped the teachings of both prophets.

I'm pretty sure Islam was sensible up until about five minutes after the death of the prophet. Same goes for Christianity.

Some people will say that Islam has not grown up, while Christianity has, and to some extent that's true. More to the point though, Christians in impoverished parts of the world can display just as much barbarism and cruelty. It's a function of ignorance, not dogma, IMO.

And yeah, there are some real loons preaching the gospel of hatred to muslim youths. I blame the preachers though, not the message they've chosen to corrupt for their own twisted ends. At the heart of the issue rests the eternal truth about the nature of man - individuals are responsible for their own actions, and for their own sins, and for the consequences that necessarily follow.

So these Gangs of Christian Rapists committing attacks all the time in the US, are they against Women of different beliefs?

As a percentage, I would guess that happens infrequently. This country is mostly Christians. I'll ask again though - why does it matter? Is there a justifiable rationale for rape in your mind, as long as it doesn't target people who believe something different than you do? I don't understand what you're getting at with this line of reasoning.

You seem to be saying that either a.) muslims rape christians as a matter of course, or b.) the rape is somehow worse because it targets Christians.

I can't understand your logic, so help me out...

What do you mean by Regular basis? Got some links on American Christian Gang rapists.

My country is predominantly Christian. At least 75%. I've heard as high as 80%. The FBI reported 0.4 rapes per 1000 people in 2004, at a population of..say, 280 million. 280 Million / 1000 = 280k, 280k x .04 = 112k reported rapes a year in this country. The actual number is probably more like 185k, but we have to work with what we have. If there are 112k rapes a year in america, then it stands to reason that roughly 84.5k rapes are committed by Christians annually. 84.5k / 365 = 231 rapes per day, 9.5 rapes per minute. What's your definition of a regular basis, because the above statistics qualify, in my mind, as real evidence of rape by Christians on a regular basis.

I wish I had some numbers on Iraq for comparison, but rape is reported even less there than it is here, and there is a shocking lack of basic investigative equipment. So, I can't compare rape statistics between the two countries, unfortunately.

Anyway, I hope this has been illuminating. If you want to take issue with my numbers I encourage you to do so. I tried not to round with any big numbers, but I may have some incorrect numbers, or I may have screwed up my math.

Anyway, I don't think we ought to care what demographic a rapists fits into. Christian, Muslim, Jew, Animist, I don't care, hang them by the neck from a tall tree and leave them for the crows, that's my opinion.

WyrdeOne,

Applause

Very well said. Somehow in the minds of people muslim rapists are worse than christian rapists and vice versa.

Rapist is a rapist. Hate them all.

People love to pick out the bad apples of a group to blame the entire group for it. When will the stupidity stop!

It seems to me that rape is a symptom (wrong word?) of war. Throughout history men have resorted to raping women during warfare. I do not think that there is a country that could positively state that "None of our soldiers have raped or assaulted women during times of warfare'. Before anyone replies saying I am a man hater and anti this or that ...let me say that not all men rape...ONLY A MINORITY. Theatres of war provide the perfect setting to get away with a crime that one might otherwise be found guilty of, and the opportunity to repeatedly offend. Some are found guilty but for everyone that is found guilty, how many get way with it ?


I do agree that the treatment the female Christians in Iraq are experiencing could be payback for the Crusade Wars. Rape and murder in the name of Christianity. The Crusaders were just as guilty as these Iraqi rapists.

Rape - Never is and never will be justified.


In Peace Always
resi

Originally posted by resistancia
The Crusaders were just as guilty as these Iraqi rapists.

resi

Do you mean the Crusaders of 1000 years ago ? if so how do you come to the conclusion that they Gang Raped Muslim Women ?

Yes I mean the Crusades (there were several of them, many minor ones).

I did not say that Crusaders gang raped Muslim women... I said that Iraqi Christian women were perhaps experiencing a payback for rapes committed during the Crusades by Christian Crusaders. I did not use the term gang rape.

The point I was trying to get across is that rape is a symptom of war.

Unfortunately I expect that if my country is overun by an army from wherever, then rape would be a weapon used to demoralise women.

In Pace Always
resi

Originally posted by WyrdeOne

So these Gangs of Christian Rapists committing attacks all the time in the US, are they against Women of different beliefs?

As a percentage, I would guess that happens infrequently. This country is mostly Christians. I'll ask again though - why does it matter? Is there a justifiable rationale for rape in your mind, as long as it doesn't target people who believe something different than you do? I don't understand what you're getting at with this line of reasoning.

You seem to be saying that either a.) muslims rape christians as a matter of course, or b.) the rape is somehow worse because it targets Christians.

I can't understand your logic, so help me out...

look you said this Wyrde " But if you stop and think about, packs of Christian boys rape women on a fairly regular basis in America".

You have provided nothing about American Christian gang rapists and this thread is about People Gang Raping other minority groups, all youve done is avoided my question and Questioned my motives, you said America had packs of Christian Boys raping Women not me, now prove it.

What do you mean by Regular basis? Got some links on American Christian Gang rapists.

My country is predominantly Christian. At least 75%. I've heard as high as 80%. The FBI reported 0.4 rapes per 1000 people in 2004, at a population of..say, 280 million. 280 Million / 1000 = 280k, 280k x .04 = 112k reported rapes a year in this country. The actual number is probably more like 185k, but we have to work with what we have. If there are 112k rapes a year in america, then it stands to reason that roughly 84.5k rapes are committed by Christians annually. 84.5k / 365 = 231 rapes per day, 9.5 rapes per minute. What's your definition of a regular basis, because the above statistics qualify, in my mind, as real evidence of rape by Christians on a regular basis.



Anyway, I hope this has been illuminating. If you want to take issue with my numbers I encourage you to do so. I tried not to round with any big numbers, but I may have some incorrect numbers, or I may have screwed up my math.

Your figures are completely Flawed because you apply it to the Whole population, you need to apply it to the Prison population, do that then post your findings, i know what results will be already.

I simply dont understand some of your peoples arguments, i start a post on Iraqi Muslim Gang rapists intentionally targeting Christians, and people try to detract from this crime with lame cross arguments, the only equivalent is if there was Christian Rape Squads intentionally targeting Muslims, which doesnt happen!!

hI didn't wanted to enter this discussion, but there is something wrong with the numbers (or lack of numbers) presented.

In the article they say:

Young Christian women and girls have been abducted and released after ransom money was paid only to commit suicide because of the shock, violence and shame they experienced.

How many? 2? 3? 2000? They don't say.

In one case in Baghdad, the victim committed suicide after the ransom was paid and she went home because of the torture and sexual violence she suffered.

Here they talk about one case, but do not say if she was a Christian.

In another case, a young woman talked to her family by phone (the kidnappers allowed her to speak to her family to reassure them that she was alive) and told them: “I’m dead” (referring to being gang raped). She eventually committed suicide whilst still in the hands of her tormenters.

This is another case, and also they do not say if she was a Christian.

Unofficial estimates put the number of young women and girls abducted in the last two weeks at 12.

So, from 12 young women and girls abducted in the last two weeks, and from all the previous cases, they talk of only two.

Is it because they do not have any numbers? In that case, why did they publish an article where they speak of numbers they do not show?

How many women and girls were raped by their kidnappers? Are they raping them all? Are they using rape as a weapon to terrorise the women? And only Christian women, as they imply, or all women? They don't say.

This looks more like an article trying to spread their ideas of what is happening without any proof than an honest article about a serious problem.

And this is a consequence of something that many people ignore, the kidnappings in Iraq happen every day. We only ear when is someone that has the power to impress, like a journalist or someone who is there to help the people, but we do not ear about the common people that are abducted every day.

U.S. officials say that up to 40 people are kidnapped every day, a phenomenon highlighted last week when a U.S. soldier in Baghdad went missing, an apparent abduction victim. With ransoms ranging from a few thousand dollars to more than a million and with the police often unwilling or unable to even register such cases, officials say kidnapping has become an increasingly lucrative business. It helps the kidnappers that their criminal activity is often confused with the routine hostage taking by both sides in the Shi'ite-Sunni civil war. "Kidnapping for ransom is an industry," says Dan O'Shea, former coordinator of the U.S. embassy's Hostage Working Group. "It is governed by the profit motive, not religion or race or politics."

source

So, if 40 people are kidnapped every day, and in the last two weeks some 12 women and girls were kidnapped, as bad as it is, it looks like just a "normal" percentage of all victims.

HERE

On July 18, 2006, al-Iraqiya broadcasted interview with Dr. Mahmoud al-Mashhadanian about the subject of raping and killing of women by the Iraqi terrorist. After addressing the kidnapping of his own sister; 'Thayer al-Mashhadani' and her guards, the Speaker of the Iraqi National Assembly (Parliament) said: "Why kidnap this Muslim woman, instead of Tayseer; why not kidnap Margaret or Jwan?" The latter are Christian names, the implication being that the terrorists should have kidnapped, raped and killed Christian women instead of his sister.

Yes Woman from all backgrounds get raped, but this shows the Problem of Christian Women being targetted for being Christian!!

Your figures are completely Flawed because you apply it to the Whole population, you need to apply it to the Prison population,

What do you mean? Your statement is unclear.

do that then post your findings, i know what results will be already.

I know you think you do.

So damn sure of yourself. It's hard to learn anything when you think you know everything. :shk:

Read 'em and weep

www.skepticfiles.org...

During 10 years in Sing-Sing, those executed for murder were 65% Catholics,
26% Protestants, 6% Hebrew, 2% Pagan, and less than 1/3 of 1% non-religious.

Steiner and Swancara surveyed Canadian prisons and found 1,294 Catholics,
435 Anglicans, 241 Methodists, 135 Baptists, and 1 Unitarian.

Dr. Christian, Superintendant of the NY State Reformatories, checked
22,000 prison inmates and found only 4 college graduates. In "Who's Who"
91% were college graduates, and he commented that "intelligence and
knowledge produce right living" and that "crime is the offspring of
superstition and ignorance."

The overwhelming majority of inmates are self-described Christians.

Game, set, match.

(I think)

Assuming I understand your question, which was not entirely clear.

I simply dont understand some of your peoples arguments,

I'm not surprised.

i start a post on Iraqi Muslim Gang rapists intentionally targeting Christians, and people try to detract from this crime with lame cross arguments,

My 'lame cross argument' is quite simple really - rape is committed by many people, of all religions. In America it's a crime predominantly committed by Christians, since this is, overwhelmingly, a Christian country.

If you read my earlier posts you would see I already spoke to the issue of motive, and how little it matters, really.

You haven't answered my question, do you think rape is justifiable under certain circumstances? If not, then why does it matter whether some Muslims rape Christians because they're Christian, as opposed to raping them because they can get away with it.

the only equivalent is if there was Christian Rape Squads intentionally targeting Muslims, which doesnt happen!!

Sorry, you haven't documented that to anybody's satisfaction, and I never set out to document gang rapes committed by Christians targetting Muslims exclusively because I don't see how it's relevant to my argument.

You also haven't even attempted to explain why muslims who rape christian women are any worse than rapists who rape women of other religions.