Representative Rangel Seeks to Reinstate The Draft.

And I'm still waiting for some stats to back up Rangel's claims that only poor Democrats serve in the military.

Jsobecky - that was NOT what he was saying nor the point that he was trying to make! THIS was the point -> If the majority of Congress Members CHILDREN & Senators CHILDREN & the Presidents & Vice Presidents CHILDREN were in the Military then maybe they would not be in such a rush to get into Wars based on the Flimsiest of Evidence!!!

Lets lighten the Mood -> Hey Centurion1211 this ones for YOU!
-> www.ifilm.com...

[edit on 23-11-2006 by Seraphim_Serpente]

Republicans and conservatives on the other hand have rightly put the blame for a lot of what's happened with the war... and the elections squarely on Bush.

Easy to say now that he is soon to be on the way OUT! How about all of the "Neo-Cons" that surrounded Bush & helped push him to make his decision to actually approve the Iraq Invasion? So what is your explanation in that regard? These same people are now calling for War against Iran BTW! I think that they are out of their MINDS! If people like Bill Kristol want War with Iran so much then they should "Strap Up" & go there THEMSELVES!!! Freakin' ChickenHawks - this is Ridiculous! It is more than apparent at this point that the Neo-"ConArtists" have no idea what they are doing in Iraq anymore - nor how to move forward & deal with the situation!

P.S. The Republicans lost the Election *ALL BY THEMSELVES*!

[edit on 23-11-2006 by Seraphim_Serpente]

So now just like elections . . .computers will do the choosing how convenient.

I imagine that everything will be feed on it, and like anything it can be fix, to target certain groups.

Marge, how can you a target a specific group if the computer is drawing birthdates, and the order in which they will be called up? rich or poor, black or white, liberal or conservative, any of those people could easily have the exact same day. Did you also miss the part that states

With reporters, television cameras, government officials and impartial observers present, a Selective Service official pulls one capsule from the drum containing dates and one capsule from the drum containing numbers.

I really cannot find where that leaves room for targetting specific groups? Unless you take the Zodiac signs, or Chinese astrology into consideration. Only then i suppose would it be possible for them to begin targeting Scorpios, Leo's Virgos or the Year of the rat. of course that still means people from every walk of life would fall under that. Am I missing something? As far as I can see, it appears the draft is done as fairly as anyone could think possible. No names involved, just dates.

Am I missing anything?

esides the draft will only enlist the appropirate number of conscripts deemed necessarry by the President. I seriously do not believe we are going to see 30 million people go across seas. 30,000 is about as far as it can go, and that could probably be covered by the initial draw.

Rangel=Democrat

You asked for it, you got it...

"Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it"

More to come I assure you...



As Semper sits quietly back and watches the downfall....

Semper

DYepes

I am all for conspiracies and you know that, I wonder if they can target regions or regional areas like skipping one area with certain poupulation over another one with more appealing population.

Just like is done for adverstisement, if you are offering 0ne million dollar homes for sale you are not going to target advertisment for those people in a poor community, right?

This is already done with promotion, advertisment and the media.

So how can this no be used lottery also? is just the intention what is needed.

Occurs, just my conspiracy theory.

Originally posted by semperfortis
As Semper sits quietly back and watches the downfall....

So you wish that our country falls even worse than it has just to spite democrats? That is known as cutting off your nose to spite your face. So fine, sit back and if we manage to get out of Iraq, you will still find something to bitch about won't you?

On topic, I still haven't heard from many that think that mandatory service would be a good thing. I think it could be, because it would offer experience to young people, and they would get a better understanding of how the world works. On the other hand I am concerned about the effect it may have. If you think about it, if everybody had to serve had a good experience they would then be more biased and have stronger belief in the military and government. But if they did not like the experience they would probably grow to hate the military and government.

Having said that, I guess not much would change, would it?

So fine, sit back and if we manage to get out of Iraq, you will still find something to bitch about won't you?

OH NO!!!!

Unlike so many on this board, I gave my time, sweat and blood in the middle east... I have been there.... So my complaints come from personal knowledge not just some internet web site while my butt grows ever wider doing nothing...

I am all for a draft.... Do the country good to have young people experience the real world instead of the aforementioned cyber life..

But all the Democrats that have accused Bush of all the bad in the world, are now getting exactly what they wished for...

We don't need to "Get out of Iraq" we need to finish what we have started. I only thank God that you all were not alive during WWII, then you would have complained about all the soldiers that died and we could all be speaking German right now. People die in war. The shame of it all is that you have all forgotten that people die in terror attacks as well.
Keep on namby pambying, then when (not if) we are attacked again, you can all just up and say, We didn't do enough, instead of what your saying now, we are doing too much.

You got your wish, all the Rangels in the world, now live with it..

Semper

Sorry for going off topic, but I must respond.

Originally posted by semperfortis
Unlike so many on this board, I gave my time, sweat and blood in the middle east...

I was not attacking your service, which is appreciated BTW, but asking why you would like to see our country, which you have fought for have a “downfall”? Having known you served makes me wonder why you feel this way even more. What your saying is you hope that the democrats fail and bring this country down even worse just to prove your point.

But all the Democrats that have accused Bush of all the bad in the world, are now getting exactly what they wished for...

In case you haven’t been following the news, there are more than just democrats that are critical of the Bush administrations policies as of late.

We don't need to "Get out of Iraq" we need to finish what we have started. I only thank God that you all were not alive during WWII, then you would have complained about all the soldiers that died and we could all be speaking German right now. People die in war. The shame of it all is that you have all forgotten that people die in terror attacks as well.

We were absolutely in no danger from Iraq and were diverted from the real terrorists. This is why the Iraq war is so wrong, and is now in chaos. After the length of time it has taken to fight WW2, it is clear a military solution is not possible. We do need to finish the job and get the Iraqis to take control of their own country then bring our troops home ASAP.

Keep on namby pambying, then when (not if) we are attacked again, you can all just up and say, We didn't do enough, instead of what your saying now, we are doing too much.

I will say it now, that we did not and are not doing enough. We should have finished the job in Afghanistan and continued to go after the real terrorists like Al Queda and OBL who is still at large. The war in Iraq was for corporate gain and had nothing to do with the WOT.

You got your wish, all the Rangels in the world, now live with it..

Wouldn't you like to see our country do better? And if things improve, will you be man enough to admit it? I am not saying the democrats have all the answers, because they don't. But what they bring is a second opinion to foreign policy, which has been lacking in this administration, and it shows.

We don't need to "Get out of Iraq" we need to finish what we have started.

OK so now that Saddam will be Hanged & the Baath Party is out of Power & you have a New Government w/ a new Constitution in Iraq - what is the "Job" that we are supposed to finish? What do you not understand about a Cultural/Religious/Tribal Civil War? Do you really believe that our job is to simply get rid of the entire existing population of Iraq (aren't they ALL potential "Terrorists")?

[edit on 24-11-2006 by Seraphim_Serpente]

I have to wonder, what is it that some people seem to think that getting out of Iraq is going to be so good for the U.S.?

Has anybody who claims this actually thought about what will happen once the coalition, including the U.S. is out of Iraq?...

What is happening now there is nothing in comparison to what would happen if the coalition and the U.S. gets out of Iraq.... and then do you know who is going to be blamed for it?... I don't need to say it because some around here would love to repeat who is to blame for everything...

Originally posted by Seraphim_Serpente

OK so now that Saddam will be Hanged & the Baath Party is out of Power & you have a New Government w/ a new Constitution in Iraq - what is the "Job" that we are supposed to finish? What do you not understand about a Cultural/Religious/Tribal Civil War? Do you really believe that our job is to simply get rid of the entire existing population of Iraq (aren't they ALL potential "Terrorists")?

Lets see...you have the terrorists sent by Iran, Syria and such trying to start a civil war to destabilize the country and maybe they can even take control of Iraq....

You have terrorists from all over the world going to Iraq with the blessings of Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups, but i guess some people think this is good and once the coalition and the U.S. gets out they will behave once more as civilized people....

Exactly, if the Coalition leaves Iraq immediately it obviously will turn into full blown civil war, making recent violence seem like childs play.

Iraq has just turned into a nightmare, Saddam had to be removed, but occupation was a costly mistake.

Has anybody who claims this actually thought about what will happen once the coalition, including the U.S. is out of Iraq?...

Yes -> Chaos & Civil War. Only except what do we have NOW? = Chaos, Civil War & OUR TROOPS as "Ducks in a Barrel" - caught in the middle of this whole sad situation.
Lets face it - WE DON'T BELONG THERE!

I have to wonder, what is it that some people seem to think that getting out of Iraq is going to be so good for the U.S.?

Oh Yeah I almost forgot - we have to guard the Oil Wells there until the end of time!

Lets see...you have the terrorists sent by Iran, Syria and such trying to start a civil war to destabilize the country and maybe they can even take control of Iraq....

OK lets get one thing straight - although Syria is allowing Foreign Jihadi Fighters across it's Border & Iran supports the Shiah/Shiite Faction/Party for Political Power in the country - this is MOSTLY the IRAQIS THEMSELVES who have divided into various Religious/Ethnic/Cultural/Tribal factions & are trying to KILL everyone else that is not of their faction - including us - you know the
"White American Christian INFIDELS"!

[edit on 24-11-2006 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 24-11-2006 by Seraphim_Serpente]

[edit on 24-11-2006 by Seraphim_Serpente]

Originally posted by Muaddib

You have terrorists from all over the world going to Iraq with the blessings of Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups, but i guess some people think this is good and once the coalition and the U.S. gets out they will behave once more as civilized people....

Exactly Muaddib,

Yet I fear what you are saying is falling on deaf ears as most apparently have no idea of the realities of International political upheaval, Foreign Policy, or even have been to the area to know of what they speak.

My advice? Take a trip there, Dyncorp and Blackwater are all hiring. You can go there and come back with some real intelligence to speak up.

Thanks for appreciating my service, but that is not what I was talking about. It is the fact that I was there, saw what is happening, the good things we are doing. The positive side that NONE of you either are aware of, or want to recognize. NOT BS< simply on site observation.

But most will never believe it no matter what. So what is the use...

Semper

Originally posted by semperfortis
................................
My advice? Take a trip there, Dyncorp and Blackwater are all hiring. You can go there and come back with some real intelligence to speak up.

I know, i was offered 180k or 185k, can't remember which, a year to work there, but then you can't have your own weapon, you must accept "Iraqi body guards" "some" of which have been known to turn over some contractors they are supposed to help, so i won't be doing that anytime soon.

Originally posted by semperfortis
Thanks for appreciating my service, but that is not what I was talking about. It is the fact that I was there, saw what is happening, the good things we are doing. The positive side that NONE of you either are aware of, or want to recognize. NOT BS< simply on site observation.

But most will never believe it no matter what. So what is the use...

Semper

Your service, just like the service of every man and woman in our Armed Forces is always appreciated.

I know how some people back home are, i was in the service too and i had to see some "disgraceful Americans", not to say some other choice words, just say the worse insults just because they need someone to spite.

Remember Semper, i am one of those people that from time to time I have given links and excerpts to many of the good things our forces are doing there, as well as many of the good things the "Capitalist contractors" are doing over there....

You will always have people that don't want to listen, they are a hateful bunch and will always be that way.

[edit on 25-11-2006 by Muaddib]

Muaddib,

That part was actually not directed at you... Sorry... I was unclear...

You and I see Eye to Eye on this 100%

Semper

You ask what do I expect to happen if our troops leave? We all know it will collapse into civil war, but this appears to be happening anyway right under our noses.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

What is the point of our troops being over there if they are not keeping this from happening? Most of the violence is occurring in Sadr city, which our troops are not allowed to go into to maintain the peace. It is by the request of the Iraqi government so our troops cannot do the job they should be doing. So what is the point of them being there?

I certainly don’t want to leave things the way they are, but I don’t think we will be allowed to do what is necessary. This is by their choice not ours. I think if you asked the Iraqis, most would say that our troops are no longer welcome and we should leave. If we don’t follow their wishes then we are no longer seen as liberators but an occupying force.

I think the only solution is to divide up the country and separate the Kurds, Sunnis and Shiites. When India gained its independence, this is exactly what they had to do in order to stop the violence that erupted there. Pakistan was created and the Hindus and Muslims packed up and moved into separate countries. I think it is probably the only solution at this point, but this is considered unacceptable by the administration.

So semperfortis, since you have served in the Middle East and have a better understanding of the situation, what do you think is causing all the violence and what can be done to stop it? Ultimately, what do you think should be done and how long before our troops will be able to leave Iraq?

Edit: Since this is off topic, maybe we should move the discussion on Iraq to a more appropriate thread like this one.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
I reposted my thoughts there if your interested.

[edit on 11/25/2006 by Hal9000]

Hal,

I actually think your solution would work. At least as effective as anything else I have heard proposed.

Sadly, I am also convinced that there really is no "ONE" solution. We are fighting against a civilization based on, founded in and accustomed to violence with little or no real desire for peace. Their very Holy Book, insists on violence as a solution to non-believers. (Yes I have read it)

The only thing I am positive about, is in order to maintain any reputation whatsoever, we can not just pull a Vietnam. We must do what we can to help them resolve this into some kind of a working Government.

Semper

Originally posted by Hal9000
What is the point of our troops being over there if they are not keeping this from happening? Most of the violence is occurring in Sadr city, which our troops are not allowed to go into to maintain the peace. It is by the request of the Iraqi government so our troops cannot do the job they should be doing. So what is the point of them being there?

So very true. Further proof of what you say:

Tuesday, October 31, 2006; 11:35 AM

BAGHDAD, Iraq -- U.S. troops on Tuesday abandoned checkpoints around the Shiite militia stronghold of Sadr City on orders from Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, the latest in a series of moves by the Iraqi leader to assert his authority with the U.S. administration.
www.washingtonpost.com...

And still we are told that we have installed a puppet gov't.

Iraq is a lost case as now, democracy their elected government is powerless.

US troops are sitting ducks on the nightmare that the civil war is causing, and no amount of troops is going to stop it.

If US gets out of that country the civil war will continue and eventually they will get tired.

Already most influential Iraqi population has gone out of the country, the ones that are staying behind are the ones that can no exile anywhere because they have no means.

Yes is an exile of Iraqi going on, but nobody can see it in the news and the government is keeping the facts as away from public view as possible.

Who will be blame for leaving Iraq and the death toll of Iraqis growing? well US occurs and that will be the international community doing it.

But we are already in the bad side of their opinions anyway so who cares.

But here in the US it will become the topic for presidential campaign and occurs Democrats will be the faulty ones.

Yes Republicans are at fault for taking our nation into a none end war and Democrats are will be blamed for no doing enough to keep our troops safe in Iraq.

But guess what . . . both elites party will still be in power and we the public will be played with for public opinion.

Don't you Love politics?

Still nobody cares the precarious situation our troops today are facing in Iraq.