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Representative Rangel Seeks to Reinstate The Draft.

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posted on Nov, 21 2006 @ 07:12 PM
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Originally posted by ThePieMaN
Strangely enough even Rengel himself voted against this bill. Maybe it was more of a symbolic gesture more then anything?


Pie


Could you present evidence of this?

Even in the last article i gave he said and I quote.

"if we're going to challenge Iran and challenge North Korea and then, as some people have asked, send more troops to Iraq, we can't do that without the draft. ... I will be introducing that bill as soon as we start the new session."

www.washingtontimes.com...




posted on Nov, 21 2006 @ 07:56 PM
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Originally posted by Muaddib


Could you present evidence of this?



I read it in either the NY Daily news or The New york Post today while I was riding on the train...so maybe I misread it. Another article that i found had this included


In 2004 Congress defeated a Rangel bill called the Universal National Service Act of 2003 by a vote of 402-2. Rangel voted against his bill


Maybe I misread it. I don't remember seeing the 2003 though in the article I read in print. I have the paper at home Ill re-read it and see in the morning when i get home.



posted on Nov, 21 2006 @ 09:44 PM
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Well the draft is a little more complex than many seem to think. See if a drfat is made into effect, many seem to believe that all of a sudden everyone eligibable is automatically enlisted into a war. That is not the case. I just learned alot about it on hostuffworks and it was very intriqueing. I honestly did not know it worked this way.

The first order of business would be to conduct a national draft lottery. The lottery would determine the order in which eligible men would be drafted. The government would start with all eligible men who turn 20 in the year of the draft.

The drafting order within this group would be determined by an impartial, random lottery system developed by the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST). This system has several steps:

A computer prints out every date in the current year in random order and places these dates in small capsules.

The computer then prints out numbers 1 through 365 (366 in a leap year) in random order and places these numbers in small capsules.

The capsules containing dates are loaded into one drum, in no particular order, and the capsules containing numbers are loaded into another drum.

Official observers inspect this process and the drums to make sure everything goes correctly.

Photo courtesy Selective Service System
U.S. representative Alexander Pirnie draws the first capsule for the first Vietnam draft lottery (December 1, 1969).

With reporters, television cameras, government officials and impartial observers present, a Selective Service official pulls one capsule from the drum containing dates and one capsule from the drum containing numbers. The number determines when men with that birthday will receive induction notices. For example, if an official drew the date April 22 and the number 42, then men turning 20 years old on April 22 of the current year would be the 42nd group to receive induction notices. The official keeps drawing pairs of dates and numbers until all dates are put into sequence.

This sequence of call is sent to the Selective Service Data Management Center in Palatine, Illinois, which immediately mails induction notices to men with the lowest lottery numbers.

The SSS calls in select military reservists and volunteer board members to staff agency offices and appeal boards around the country.

When men receive their induction notices, they report to a regional military entrance processing station for physical, psychological, mental and moral evaluations. The purpose of these evaluations is to determine whether or not a man is fit to serve in the military.

When a man is notified that he is fit for service, he has 10 days to file a claim for exemption, postponement or deferment (more on this in the next section).
If the congress and the president were to reinstate the draft, they would request that the Selective Service draft a certain number of troops. The SSS would proceed through the list of eligible men until they reached the requested number. As the crisis continued, the president and congress might request additional troops, and the SSS would send out more induction notices.
If more troops were needed after processing all eligible 20-year-old men, the SSS would hold another lottery for 21-year-olds. They would then proceed to 22-year-olds, then 23-year-olds, then 24 year-olds, then 25-year olds. Finally, if more troops were needed, they would proceed to 19-year-olds, then 18-year-olds. In the event that the military still needed troops, the president and congress would have to extend the draft age.


It does not just happen all at once, and chances are if you are over 24, you may not even get conscripted. The system is alot neater now. Gone are the days of "come with us or go to jail". Personally I think a draft should be mandatory if we needed it. The key here, the draft only comes if we "need it". Even if we started another war right now, unless its with a Security Council nation or India, it is doubtful we would be short enough to instill the draft. If a draft came along, I would damn well serve if called up. The only reason a draft would come anymore is out of necessity, and right now we do not need it.



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 12:42 AM
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Rangels, Kerrys, Murthas, etc. in the democrat party - the party that detest the military.


Let me stop you right there. There is a problem with that statement - did you realize that those three people that you mentioned are ALL Veterans & ALL Served Active Duty in Wars to which they were Deployed (as in to Vietnam & Korea & the like)?!!! Now let me ask you a question - were was your Hero George W. Bush during the Vietnam War? Certainly he was qualified to serve during Vietnam. Privileged little "Boy George" was probably off somewhere snorting coke or something! He then has to gall to show up in Vietnam - 40 Years later - Parading around as the President (with unbelievably low Poll Ratings BTW) & make comments about his own personal Vietnam - i.e. the Invasion of Iraq that he ordered. How Incredibly Ironic - it seems as if our Iraq Adventure is going an awful lot like our Vietnam one did. I guess that we should have learned from history - but we never do - history still just seems to be repeating itself. What a Shame!



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 05:14 AM
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DYepes

Thanks for that tidbit of information.
I never realized that the draft lottery had a "double random" element to it. I never knew about the numbers being drawn, only the birthdates.

Ya learn something new every day!

Edit typo

[edit on 22-11-2006 by jsobecky]



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 08:28 AM
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So now just like elections . . .computers will do the choosing how convenient.

I imagine that everything will be feed on it, and like anything it can be fix, to target certain groups.


Hummmmmmm

Interesting, Don't you love the conspiracy angle of it?

It kind of bring me memories of science fictions movies and the new world order.


[edit on 22-11-2006 by marg6043]



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 08:47 AM
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2 Million people sit in American jails, i think the draft should start there, perhaps trading Time served against sentences .......

Be mad to draft your finest people off to war while crims get to sit there sponging off the system! 2 mil prisoners, phenomenal, i think thats the largest prison population in the world for one country.



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 09:11 AM
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Originally posted by Charles Rangel
"There's no question in my mind that this president and this administration would never have invaded Iraq, especially on the flimsy evidence that was presented to the Congress, if indeed we had a draft and members of Congress and the administration thought that their kids from their communities would be placed in harm's way,"


Seems like sound logic to me. You wanna make war, then you sacrifice just like everyone else.

Way to go Charles!


Peace


edit: And to the people saying we should have our prisoners fighting in the war, a lot of these guys are unstable and uncontrollabe, how's that going to work on the battlefield. Besides that how many would go AWOL? That's a train wreck folks.

[edit on 22-11-2006 by Dr Love]

[edit on 22-11-2006 by Dr Love]



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 10:46 AM
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Let me stop you right there. There is a problem with that statement - did you realize that those three people that you mentioned are ALL Veterans & ALL Served Active Duty in Wars to which they were Deployed (as in to Vietnam & Korea & the like)?!!!


Thank you for pointing this out. I almost had a cow when I read that.

So these combat vets "despise" the military, the while rightwing cowards ever eager to send young people off to die so they can vicariously feel like toughguys "love" the military.

Yeah, as long as they're not the ones getting shot at


Rangel is right - the use of a volunteer military since Vietnam has little to do with combat effectiveness, and everything to do with lowering the political barriers to war. After the civil unrest inspired by the Vietnam War, our interventionist factions realized the draft guaranteed domestic political resistance to wars that don't directly involve the security of the US.

With a volunteer military, our servicemen's lives can be thrown away much more easily without igniting domestic resistance, and that is the reason we don't see it used anymore.



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 10:54 AM
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Even now, as an American citizen, being 19 and knowing what's occuring right now and what occured in Iraq, I'd support this sort of legislation. If it helped put an end to mindless wars.



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 12:45 PM
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Originally posted by xmotex

Thank you for pointing this out. I almost had a cow when I read that.

So these combat vets "despise" the military, the while rightwing cowards ever eager to send young people off to die so they can vicariously feel like toughguys "love" the military.


Perhaps you don't understand my meaning because you've never listened to or read what they say. Try that next time before commenting. Even though they are veterans, they continuously trash the military every chance they get. Most veterens would never do that. But these democrats do - loud and often.



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 01:01 PM
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Really?

OK, please go ahead and find me some examples of them "trashing the military" as a whole.

I'd say it's more a rightwing talking point than anything related to reality...



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 03:18 PM
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You're probably an adult and can do your own research. However, if you need a place to start there's always Google:

Google search: trashing the military rangel murtha kerry




posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 04:51 PM
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Do myou ever consider they have legitimate reason for disliking the military in our current point in history? Like how the war they served, and the war they currently oppose were pretty much forced onto us with lies?

Some people actually give fair diplomacy a chance. And "do what I say or its war" is not fair diplomacy.



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 05:21 PM
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Well they are saying its to stop mindless wars from occuring anymore...so we know thats not the real reason for the bill. What else could it be?



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 05:40 PM
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Originally posted by centurion1211
However, if you need a place to start there's always Google:


In other words, you don't care to back up your claim.

Thanks for clearing that up.

So these veterans all "hate the military" - get real.

Opposing stupid wars on the other side of the planet is not the same as hating the military.
Opposing spending unlimited amounts on "defense" (which has become anything but) is not the same as hating the military.



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 09:02 PM
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Nice job centurion1211 - way to prove your point! By backing it up with a ridiculous google search that only pulls up Right Wing Propaganda - that only you & your fellow Right Wing loons would agree with!



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 09:12 PM
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Originally posted by DYepes
Do myou ever consider they have legitimate reason for disliking the military in our current point in history? Like how the war they served, and the war they currently oppose were pretty much forced onto us with lies?

Why blame the military? They only follow the orders of the CiC.

And I'm still waiting for some stats to back up Rangel's claims that only poor Democrats serve in the military. Don't forget to include pilots, officers, etc.

[edit on 22-11-2006 by jsobecky]



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 10:58 PM
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Good points jsobecky. So, if Rangel's whole premise for bringing back the draft is false, we're back to what I originally said. What's the real reason? My theory that he's out to discredit and destroy the military makes more sense than about 95% of the CT people come up with around here.

Also, what we're seeing on this thread is something I also pointed out in another thread. Dems/libs seem pathologically incapable of ever criticizing any of their own. You're actually defending Murtha as one of your best and brightest???? The man barely escaped being indicted. Republicans and conservatives on the other hand have rightly put the blame for a lot of what's happened with the war, immigration, energy and the elections squarely on Bush.



posted on Nov, 23 2006 @ 02:29 AM
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Since when did this thread turn into a mud pit thread?

What, people aren't smart enough anymore to debate issues without resorting to insults and stupid comments?

First of all, and I know that it is going off topic but I can't just leave it like that, the U.S. military, and the U.S. in general has not just been hated so much "at this particular point in time", in fact both the U.S. and U.S. military has been hated by almost the other half of the world since the Declaration of Independence, and even before that.

I would recommend for those who are interested on how long the U.S. and U.S. military ahs been hated to read what Gordon Sinclair's "The Americans". It is just something he wrote over 30 years ago, but it pretty much sounds as the same thing that is happening today...

www.phillytalkradioonline.com...

Anyways, we are really going off topic here, this thread is about the draft, not about personnal vendettas.

[edit on 23-11-2006 by Muaddib]



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