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Russia - Muslim Majority in 30 years.

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posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 02:59 PM
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Russia Muslim Majority

Everyone talks about how France will be majority Muslim within a generation. But Russia isn’t too far behind. This article discusses the numbers AND the frustration of Muslims in Russia.

Russia's overall population is dropping at a rate of 700,000 people a year. The national fertility rate is 1.5 children per woman, far below the 2.1 children per woman needed to maintain the country's population. The rate in Moscow is even lower, at 1.1 children per woman. The fertility rate for (Muslim) Tatars living in Moscow is six children per woman. The (Muslim) Chechen and Ingush communities are averaging 10 children per woman. And hundreds of thousands of Muslims from Tajikistan, Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan have been flocking to Russia in search of work.

Recently Russia's Muslim population increased by 40 percent to about 25 million. Muslims will make up a majority of Russia's conscript army, and by 2020 a fifth of the population by 2015. Muslims will be the majority in Russia within 30 years.

The article ends with this ominous warning - "When Muslims are in the majority in Russia, they'll remember whether we spoke out for their rights or failed to." So I guess Russians had better start making nice to their Muslim neighbors … or else.

The BIG question should be .. how is all this demographic change for Russia (and France) going to effect the War on Terror? Is it going to effect that war, or will it lead to an even bigger war in the future? Russia and France are nuclear countries. What will a new Muslim majority do with those nukes in those countries?

Everything on this planet will change within a generation. That is my prediction.



[edit on 11/20/2006 by FlyersFan]




posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 03:01 PM
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It's going to make Muslims in control of two of the most heavily armed nuclear powers in the world.

Pretty scary IMHO.



posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 04:26 PM
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Russian demographics are indeed troubling, but not as omnious as you are making it seem. Ethnic Russian population (specifically non-Muslim, since there are countless minor ethnicities in Russia) did severly decline through the 90's, and now it is slightly rebounding. Other than the growing Muslim population, there is also a growing Chinese population in the Far East of Russia.

But after Chechnya, the authorities are much more careful to monitor these events. One of the unofficial (but clearly practiced) policies, is to draw provincial borders (oblasti in Russian) in such a way, that the population of ethnic Russians is in the majority everywhere except for a few regions. Another tactic is keeping very close ties with authorities of ethnical provinces, making sure that any ethnic issue or contention is quickly solved.

Also ethnic regions are given certain amount of autonomy, and freedom to distribute government funds and make laws as long as they don't conflict with the Federal constitution. This seemed to also solved alot of problems, such as those in Tatarstan, Ingushetia, Dagestan, and others. These regions don't have much reason to separate from the federation, and are content with their authority. The situation in France is very different.

Also, unlike France, in Russia most of the ethnic Muslims are not immigrants, but have have lived for centuries under Russian Empire. There are many local ethnicities incorporated into the federation- and other than Muslims there are also many Asian ethnicities. These regions, or republics have their own schools, judicial courts, elected authorities, and representatives in the Federal Duma. French Muslims have little authority and little voice in the elections and legislation. Also, because of long period of secular communism, most of the local Muslims aren't very religious to the point of radicalism, so religion isn't a huge problem like in Europe.

So as long as radical Islam and extremism are kept away, there are no major issues. Russia has a solid buffer zone to the South, consisting of Kazakhstan Mongolia Azerbaijan Armenia and Georgia, to protect them from the religious radicalism spreading from the Middle East. All these nations have strong central governments, which will not permit this radicalism. So Russia is stable as long as its neighbors are stable.



posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 04:40 PM
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It seems thats every country that adopts Muslims and lets them in will in the end be taken over by Muslims need to populate. Germany or even Europe has been forcast for mass Muslim population growth. I hope so so that in the Future every major country has a cilvil war so that they realise that maybe 'Iron does not mix with clay' Daniel V41-43 and you will have a Bosnian scenario where no one gets on, seems that way for Iraq too. Too many tribes don't mix and I guess History shows that to develop that unity you either get genocide it or make war.
Just don't have faith that things will work out.



posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 05:04 PM
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It seems everyone here is mixing faith with nationality. You will have to explain why categorizing someone's nationality/race through their faith is correct. Last I checked, only a "Jew" could be interchanged between faith or race.

To those opposed to Muslims, I can understand you disgust with my faith. I don't blame you for believing everything you see on TV as your own credible source on Islam. When the media portrays a bias against any race/faith, it will continuosly show the bad occurances, and omit most of the good. This occured during WWII with the Japanese, where US media would portray the Japanese in a stereotypical "buck tooth," "thick accent," "large glasses," ethnicity that drove Americans into detesting the Japanese and Japanese-American's existance. One thing the media has always been dependable for is for spreading hate, fear, and ignorance. I can see many here caught up in its trap. I will say, until you study Islam for yourself, you shouldn't judge it from what you hear others telling you.

[edit on 20-11-2006 by DJMessiah]



posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 07:22 PM
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DJMessiah speak for your self i want to take over the world

i will hold the world hostage unless it surrenders to me the entire ten serias of stargate and upcoming ones and a lifes supply lucozade sport.






enough with the jokes]


on topic all i can say wow each time i come on ats there is always one topic that is outstreched with how evil we muslims are and how we are slowly taking over the world.

do you guys even know a muslim in general apart from the stereotype you see on TV?

i am greatfull the people that i live around and hang around at college and work arent as parinoid.

russia all muslim


[edit on 20-11-2006 by bodrul]



posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 07:46 PM
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Do not compare Russia to Europe. Europe wasn't successful in helping integrate Muslims into its population. Russian Muslims had lived where they live for many centuries, and they are in fact considered RUSSIAN. I cannot understand how someone came up with this outrageous estimate about Muslims becoming a majority, becase the pace at which demographics are changing is constantly adjusting due to different living conditions. Today there are more Muslims born, tomorrow there will be more Christians born. This date cannot be accurate. And who cares what the primary religion of the country is, as long as there are no fanatics on either side.

Actually an issue which is really troubling, is not rising population of Muslims, but increasing number of skinheads and neo-nazis. These fanatics have their own factions in major cities in Russia, and with the ethnicities they are targeting they might as well declare war on half of the population. Muslims however- I just don't see how that is a problem for Russia.



posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 08:10 PM
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While is very interesting to see how populations grow and become majorities, we here in the US are having the same problem with the Spanish population.

But like Bodul said the issue of Russina having a growth on muslin population makes a topic because we have been inundated by the media and geared by our own government to see them as a threat to our stability and to nations whatever they be.

Sad.



posted on Nov, 21 2006 @ 05:38 AM
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Originally posted by maloy
I cannot understand how someone came up with this outrageous estimate about Muslims becoming a majority ...


It's simple demographics.

The Muslim Russian population is having 6-10 children per couple. The non-muslims are having children below the 1.1 required to replace population. Couple that with the demographics of the immigrants and you get the projected population statistics which include 'majority Muslim'.

It's very simple. It's all there. Read the information in the article. Russia (and France) will be majority Muslim in 30-50 years. It's just a fact. There isn't anything outrageous about it.



Today there are more Muslims born, tomorrow there will be more Christians born.


No. That won't happen. All through history it has been shown that the more advanced and educated a society becomes, the less children they have. The non-muslim west has had a steady decline in the numbers of offspring for 150 years. Sociologists agree that this will not change. Even calls by the Vatican to countries like France to have more children have gone unheeded. Non-muslim Russia and Western Europe (and Israel too) is about to be out-breed by the muslims.

So no. Tomorrow there will NOT be more Christians born.




[edit on 11/21/2006 by FlyersFan]



posted on Nov, 21 2006 @ 05:47 AM
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Originally posted by bodrul
each time i come on ats there is always one topic that is outstreched with how evil we muslims are


The topic wasn't how evil Muslims are. The topic is demographics and how Russia will be a Muslim majority in 30-50 years. For you to claim this topic says that muslims are evil is a STRETCH on YOUR part.


and how we are slowly taking over the world.


Demographics show that Muslims are out-breeding non-muslims in Russia. So yes Muslims will be taking over Russia in the next generation.

And as far as your comment about taking over the world ... it wasn't part of the topic but it is my opinion that since muslims out-breed non-muslims in many parts of the world then yes, they will be taking over a large portion of the planet.



posted on Nov, 21 2006 @ 07:19 AM
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Dont be so sure on that, people are flocking away from this Religion.



660-plus Muslims an hour are leaving Islam.


Article


Only reason Islam is showing any growth at all is because of rediculous birth rates in certain places like north Africa, and by the time this Generation of Babies (to Muslim parents) grow up theyll most likely reject the stuctured Islamic life for the secular "fun" life.

Islam is Dying off, fastest shrinking religion in History.



posted on Nov, 21 2006 @ 07:51 AM
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Originally posted by NumberCruncher
people are flocking away from this Religion.

I have information that says just the opposite.
www.colostate.edu...

Quote from the article -

At present, the number of Muslims in the United States is estimated to be on the order of between 5 to 8 million. It is the fastest growing faith in this country. Estimates indicate that by the year 2000, the number of Muslims in the United States will be greater than that of the Methodists, and that by the year 2010 the number will have doubled to 10 to 16 million. The estimated conversion rate among Americans is 135,000 per year. The Defense Department reports that there are now approximately 9000 Muslims on active duty in the U.S. armed services (it is reported that more than 3000 Americans embraced Islam during the Gulf war alone). A vast network of Muslim ministries also caters to some 300,000 converts in prisons, with an estimated conversion rate of 35,000 per year


Also - black Americans have a high conversion to Islam rate. I'll have to go find that info and post here.


theyll most likely reject the stuctured Islamic life for the secular "fun" life.

That's subjective. But I hope you are right.


Islam is Dying off, fastest shrinking religion in History.

They are killing themselves off rather quickly but they are also replacing themselves faster. I disagree with your statement.



[edit on 11/21/2006 by FlyersFan]



posted on Nov, 21 2006 @ 08:01 AM
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Perhaps in America conversions to Islam are higher ? Maybe it people think they appear to be badboy if they join team Islam? more of a trend than a true conversion? who knows ...

but anyhow heres a Al Jazeera's Interview with Al Qataani translated to English.


Islam used to represent, as you previously mentioned, Africa’s main religion and there were 30 African languages that used to be written in Arabic script. The number of Muslims in Africa has diminished to 316 million, half of whom are Arabs in North Africa. So in the section of Africa that we are talking about, the non Arab section, the number of Muslims does not exceed 150 million people. When we realize that the entire population of Africa is one billion people, we see that the number of Muslims has diminished greatly from what it was in the beginning of the last century. On the other hand, the number of Catholics has increased from one million in 1902 to 329 million 882 thousand (329,882,000). Let us round off that number to 330 million in the year 2000

As to how that happened, well there are now 1.5 million churches whose congregations account for 46 million people. In every hour, 667 Muslims convert to Christianity. Everyday, 16,000 Muslims convert to Christianity. Ever year, 6 million Muslims convert to Christianity These numbers are very large indeed …..
story here



Hey wouldnt that be absolutely hilarious if over time the US went Islamic and Africa went all Christian


So anyhow i think alot Muslims are waking up to the danger and hipocrasy of there religion, and it seems alot are reverting back to being Christians as they where 1500 years ago before being forced into conversion.

Funny old world isnt it.



posted on Nov, 21 2006 @ 10:16 AM
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Originally posted by NumberCruncher
So anyhow i think alot Muslims are waking up to the danger and hipocrasy of there religion, and it seems alot are reverting back to being Christians as they where 1500 years ago before being forced into conversion.

Funny old world isnt it.


How many Muslims do you know who have lived from 1500 years ago as Christians? If you feel your argument is correct, then explain to us why the same occurs with Christians reverting to Judaism, Islam, and Buddhism.

[edit on 21-11-2006 by DJMessiah]



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 03:13 AM
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Maybe Russians should convert to Islam. Russians have an alcohol problem and hence negative fertility rate. And because alcohol is forbidden by Islam this would helped them in their population growth.



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 05:38 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
The BIG question should be .. how is all this demographic change for Russia (and France) going to effect the War on Terror? Is it going to effect that war, or will it lead to an even bigger war in the future? Russia and France are nuclear countries. What will a new Muslim majority do with those nukes in those countries?

And I always Thought that the War of Terror - I mean War on Terror is like a War dealing with TERRORISTS. But I guess I was wrong. It is a War on ISLAM, as we have seen many times before - especially in post of dearest author of this thread.

What kind of Questions are you asking yourself?

I thought we are dealing with Extremism of any form - not Muslims.

But I guess that Islamophobia is today very much similar to War on Terror and its sympathizers across the globe, who have a mission in their life to Demonize an entire religion and label it the Religion of Terror and wherever they should go, BE AFRAID.



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 10:45 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
Everyone talks about how France will be majority Muslim within a generation.


- No, not "everyone" actually.

I think it's mainly just you and a handful of others FF.


I honestly don't know anyone 'in real life' I've ever heard say this (and a member of my family lived in France for 8yrs until recently).


Everything on this planet will change within a generation. That is my prediction.


- Saying "in the future a lot of things will be different" really isn't much of a prediction FF.


......and these number games always have the same flaw.
They invariably insist on todays rates of birth/death being sustained for decades.
Even a simple and quick look at 'our own' birth/death rates proves the fallicy of that delusion.

[edit on 22-11-2006 by sminkeypinkey]



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 02:57 PM
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Originally posted by yanchek
Maybe Russians should convert to Islam. Russians have an alcohol problem and hence negative fertility rate. And because alcohol is forbidden by Islam this would helped them in their population growth.


If you lived somewhere where 5 months a year there are temperatures reaching -30 celcius, you'd also take up drinking sooner or later. The fertility rate has nothing to do with alcohol and everything to do with economy. Plus think of the tens of thousands of people that will become unemployed in all the liquor stores and alcohol producers close down.

Alcohol is probably the main reason Russia is not going to become all-Muslim. In the early 90's they tried something like prohibition in some villages to see if productivity would rise. What resulted were mass riots and hysteria. So to avoid yet another revolution the policy makers learned a lesson- never take alcohol away from Russians.



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 05:38 PM
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Originally posted by Souljah
And I always Thought that the War of Terror

Now you are admitting that there are Islamic extremist terrorists? Great!


It is a War on ISLAM,

Actually, radical Islamists have declared war on anyone who doesn't worship like them. Most Americans couldn't care less how other people worship.


I thought we are dealing with Extremism of any form - not Muslims.

Almost all of the terrorists being fought against in the War on Terror are Muslims.


Islamophobia ...

Islamofascist.



It is absolutely within reason to see that the War on Terror could shift with the demographics shifting. Muslims are not exactly jumping up and down in an effort to get the 'radical' elements within their religion to stop terrorism. It is also valid to discuss Russia becoming Islamic and therefore an Islamic nation having nuclear weapons.


Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
- No, not "everyone" actually.


"everyone is talking about ... ' was a figure of speech.



[edit on 11/22/2006 by FlyersFan]



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 05:50 PM
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Maloy..I had to laugh about Russia not becoming a muslim majority country, because of the love of vodka.


Worshiping Stolichnaya Vodka is the future.

I want to visit Russia sometime in the near future.




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