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Question for all here .... A while back my husband and I heard reference to some books that were around BEFORE the bible.
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Question for all here .... A while back my husband and I heard reference to some books that were around BEFORE the bible.
Originally posted by saint4God
Originally posted by theTRUTHtheWAY
That is why people make me sick. What makes you think that ONE is better than the other? Does God love you more than me for you follow the bible and i the koran?
One day you all will understand - love all
How ironic that being one with your username you'd overlook "Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." - John 14:6
Except through who?
"I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber." - John 10:1
This message from the one Christ, the Messiah, is given out of love because he cares about us entering that gate.
Now you cant get any more close minded than this. How do you know there were not true messiahs?... you have proof. What kind of God is your God who only glorifies Jesus Christ but not Muhammad (example)? Doesnt your God love/glorify all? Arent Jesus and Muhammad both the creation of God? Why does your God love one more than the other? Dont you think your God is being racist?
you are not acting upon the name you carry (humble one). Looks like the lessons of Jesus Christ have not soaked in with you yet. For he loved all no matter what.
That is why people make me sick. What makes you think that ONE is better than the other? Does God love you more than me for you follow the bible and i the koran?
One day you all will understand - love all
Originally posted by theTRUTHtheWAY
So you are saying only thrugh Jesus we can get to God, right?
Originally posted by theTRUTHtheWAY
So what about a child from some tribe that lives deep in the jungles, he has no idea of Jesus or the Bible - so according to you that means he goes to hell.
Originally posted by theTRUTHtheWAY
I tell you one thing, Jesus is not materialistic.
Originally posted by theTRUTHtheWAY
It is his spirit that is within us all, and if we follow our hearts and do deeds out of love...then we are with him and god.
As for the bible... the holy book has been edited more than this Java program here at work.
Originally posted by theTRUTHtheWAY
So many passages totally cut out and so many editions.... it isnt the word of God anymore... its is the word of man... and there is nothing holy about that.
Originally posted by theTRUTHtheWAY
For we all are sinners.
Originally posted by theTRUTHtheWAY
there is no physical or scientific proof that Christ ever existed.
Originally posted by theTRUTHtheWAY
And for you guys to run around and qoute his sayings like you actually lived with him is just ridiculous.
Originally posted by theTRUTHtheWAY
You have no idea my friends...
Originally posted by theTRUTHtheWAY
for gods sake.....
just look at ur signature saint4God....
Originally posted by theTRUTHtheWAY
for gods sake.....
just look at ur signature saint4God....
Originally posted by firebat
Originally posted by theTRUTHtheWAY
for gods sake.....
just look at ur signature saint4God....
Just add him to your 'ignore' list... it'll make this thread much more bearable to read.
What a great thing that function is.
Originally posted by theTRUTHtheWAY
Originally posted by firebat
Originally posted by theTRUTHtheWAY
for gods sake.....
just look at ur signature saint4God....
Just add him to your 'ignore' list... it'll make this thread much more bearable to read.
What a great thing that function is.
Why would I ignore him... this site is all about opinions and disputes. We are here to learn from eachother
Originally posted by firebat
Originally posted by theTRUTHtheWAY
Originally posted by firebat
Originally posted by theTRUTHtheWAY
for gods sake.....
just look at ur signature saint4God....
Just add him to your 'ignore' list... it'll make this thread much more bearable to read.
What a great thing that function is.
Why would I ignore him... this site is all about opinions and disputes. We are here to learn from eachother
And what, pray tell, has saint4God to offer? He ridicules other people's sources when they are just as legit (if not more than) than the biased source that he uses. His objective in this thread is clearly not to provide anything to the discussion but to automatically reject what anyone else says because he thinks he knows he's right. He is only interested in converting people to his religion, thus the constant peddling.
But if you see value in his posts, by all means-- read them.
[edit on 21-11-2006 by firebat]
Originally posted by theTRUTHtheWAY
Even tho saint4God is one of those christian fanatics... i love disputing him. He
Originally posted by theTRUTHtheWAY
is like those christian promoters that go to third world countries and brainwash people into believing what they believe.
Originally posted by theTRUTHtheWAY
Trying to spread the religion like a disease.
Originally posted by theTRUTHtheWAY
That my friend is not the way of God.
Originally posted by CX
so why were they forgotten?"
I'd never heard of this. Is this an old and well known theory or something that has been kept quiet?
If this is true, why have people been worshiping Jesus and not the "others"
, and who is to say people have'nt been worshiping the wrong guy?
lonegunman
There is a new messiah about every 2,000 years as I understand it. Every astrological age bring a new Messiah.
djohnsto77
but they were mainly militant people who wanted to lead armed rebellion against the Romans as I remember
st udio
none of those others had a class act promotor like 'Paul'
So your one of these Unorthodox christians, a Heretic to other christians? Non-profit - somehow I dont think so. And is your 'church' the only church? Is the catholic church poor????
Originally posted by saint4God
Originally posted by shihulud
And the church isn't one of the wealthiest organisations on th planet??????
The one I go to is a non-profit organization. Erego, no.
Their christians aren't they? Just like you or do you have your own wee version of christianity, how jesus should be and the like?
Originally posted by shihulud
Look at your televangelists
They're not my televangelists. I don't like watching tv most of the time.
So you have never spent any money in your entire life to learn of your religion? You have never given any money to your church for anything?
Originally posted by shihulud
And how much money have you ploughed into your religion? To get your 'secrets'!!!
Got a pencil? Here's the math. $0.00 . And, as I've said whilst it is repeatedly ignored, I'm willing to pay the cost to give it to others. I hold no secrets about God. It is a free gift He gives, and I'd love other people to have it too.
But you used them knowing full well that the Josephus account is more than likely a fraud just to try and prove a point.
Originally posted by shihulud
Lets see!!! Josephus's comments on jesus are more likely to be fraudulent
I wasn't asked to verify the sources, I was asked to provide them. I'd like the reader to read them and make a determination. People don't need to be spoonfed.
Well thats debateable, some scholars think it might refer to jesus while others think it might refer to another jewish instigator. Other scholars believe it to be a general term meaning 'good' or 'useful' and was used as a name for slaves.
What does 'chrestus' mean?
There were quite a lot of revolts and riots at the time, also there were quite a few 'messiah christs' around at the time so I dont even see the 'coincidence'
There was a riot for no reason? These writings of 'christus' were written around the time of Jesus? How many "coincidences" have to occur before they are no longer coincidence?
That doesnt mean that jesus was a historical person, there are people who follow some strange crap, but their deity never existed.
Originally posted by shihulud
To go further - there even is no mention of jesus and his miracles etc from contempory writers of the time, No mention of the thousands of people that were supposed to follow him,
Clearly there were "supposed followers" else there'd be NO writings and all. And, the growth started there to the numbers there are today.
LOL, they all say they are the son of god, so because jesus is yours that automatically makes him the one.
It is documented there are anti-christs. Being that Christ says he's the one and only son of God, then the others would have to be anti-that.
Originally posted by shihulud
So your one of these Unorthodox christians, a Heretic to other christians?
Originally posted by shihulud
Non-profit - somehow I dont think so.
Originally posted by shihulud
And is your 'church' the only church?
Originally posted by shihulud
Is the catholic church poor????
Originally posted by shihulud
Their christians aren't they?
Originally posted by shihulud
Just like you or do you have your own wee version of christianity, how jesus should be and the like?
Originally posted by shihulud
So you have never spent any money in your entire life to learn of your religion?
Originally posted by shihulud
But you used them knowing full well that the Josephus account is more than likely a fraud just to try and prove a point.
Originally posted by shihulud
Well thats debateable,
What does 'chrestus' mean?
Originally posted by shihulud
some scholars think it might refer to jesus while others think it might refer to another jewish instigator. Other scholars believe it to be a general term meaning 'good' or 'useful' and was used as a name for slaves.
Originally posted by shihulud
There were quite a lot of revolts and riots at the time,
Originally posted by shihulud
also there were quite a few 'messiah christs' around at the time so I dont even see the 'coincidence'
Originally posted by shihulud
To go further - there even is no mention of jesus and his miracles etc from contempory writers of the time, No mention of the thousands of people that were supposed to follow him,
Originally posted by shihulud
That doesnt mean that jesus was a historical person, there are people who follow some strange crap, but their deity never existed.
Originally posted by shihulud
LOL, they all say they are the son of god,
Originally posted by shihulud
so because jesus is yours that automatically makes him the one.
G
Originally posted by saint4God
Originally posted by shihulud
So your one of these Unorthodox christians, a Heretic to other christians?
I don't care for labels. They're useful for describing oneself, judgemental to place upon others. I follow and believe Christ erego I am a Christian.
But you dont know christ, what he looked like or who he was, you only know what was written by others.
Originally posted by shihulud
Just like you or do you have your own wee version of christianity, how jesus should be and the like?
Christ says who he's like. I don't need any other version. Also, knowing Christ is having a daily relationship with God. That's the primary source of Christian life.
Originally posted by shihulud
But you used them knowing full well that the Josephus account is more than likely a fraud just to try and prove a point.
I do not know that, nor would knowingly use a false document to validate a true one.
Originally posted by shihulud
Well thats debateable,
What does 'chrestus' mean?
Really...
Originally posted by shihulud
some scholars think it might refer to jesus while others think it might refer to another jewish instigator. Other scholars believe it to be a general term meaning 'good' or 'useful' and was used as a name for slaves.
Even the people here who like to use wordplay can see the obviousness of the connection. It's somewhat insulting to people who know latin/ancient civilizations to say the Romans didn't know how to use their words.
They were quite tolerant of other religions, just not tolerant of upstarts.
Originally posted by shihulud
There were quite a lot of revolts and riots at the time,
And why do you think that is? Romans were very tolerant of the Hebrews practising their religion, were they not?
Why is that???? Hmmm??? Might it be something to do witht the fact early christians suppressed everything - burning books and persecution ring any bells? I mean why wouldnt they want to suppress any other messianic figure??
Originally posted by shihulud
also there were quite a few 'messiah christs' around at the time so I dont even see the 'coincidence'
There is not coincidence at all, which is why I'd raised the question. Of the "few messiah christs" of the time...we know of only one? Only Jesus is recorded in several books? Again, things that make you go hm....
Yes but quite a few have written about bush and on many occasion ( some funnier than others - 'subliminabal messages' makes me laugh). You would think that someone other than matthew would notice the dead walking the streets of jerusalem. These are even weirder and more news worthy than 'subliminable messages' wouldn't you say???
Originally posted by shihulud
To go further - there even is no mention of jesus and his miracles etc from contempory writers of the time, No mention of the thousands of people that were supposed to follow him,
I never wrote a book about President Bush but that does not mean he doesn't exist. Clearly he exists...and I do write.
No, proof of being does not afford divinity. Would you say Koresh was divine? or Jim Jones? These people had followers too as have many religious leaders and you dont consider their claim to divinity.
Supposing we could agree upon and had proof positive that Jesus existed in the flesh, would you then believe he was the Son of God? If I'm going to do more homework about it, I'd like to know whether it will be a pointless exercise or worthwhile.
Simon???, well its written in a book with a bias to jesus, doesn't that tell you something????
Originally posted by shihulud
LOL, they all say they are the son of god,
Not all. Per Simon the Sorcerer (for example), some of the crowd just believed he had the Divine Power. It does not state he stated he did. There's a good reason for that.
Thats are fair enough, if thats how you figure the world to be - ok, but dont think that because this is your world view then it should be everyones especially when there is no corroborating evidence, only your subjective conviction.
Originally posted by shihulud
so because jesus is yours that automatically makes him the one.
G
I did not have a coming to Jesus through deductive reasoning. I asked and sought out the truth and it was given to me (as promised "seek and you will find, knock and the door with be opened to you"). There's nothing inside this brain that will go "aha! I've figured it out! Jesus must be the Son of God because of x, y, and z". Maybe there are people who can arrive at that conclusion this way but I'm certainly not one of them. Because of my stubborn cynicism, I had to be shown the truth else I'd not believe. Even then I questioned my own eyes, ears and heart of the experience to where it was necessary to receive further validations. Wave after wave until I'm saying now "I get it!" beyond any doubt. In addition, I've been given the tools to help others establish that connection...but of course cannot do any work (nor would I want to) if no-one wants me to check the cable. Hope that helps paint a better picture.
[edit on 22-11-2006 by saint4God]
Originally posted by shihulud
Originally posted by saint4God
I don't care for labels. They're useful for describing oneself, judgemental to place upon others. I follow and believe Christ erego I am a Christian.
Would that be a version not adhered to by orthodox or main christian denominations????
Originally posted by shihulud
But you dont know christ,
Originally posted by shihulud
what he looked like or who he was, you only know what was written by others.
Originally posted by shihulud
Are you trying to tell me that you never knew the possibility that the references to jesus by jospehus might be fraudulent???? How long have you been a member of ATS???
Originally posted by shihulud
Oh yes, so obvious, herd in english means a congregation of animals while heard means that you audibly remember something. Its funny what a letter here (geddit here, hear) and there (their, they're) can do to the meaning of a word, so be insulted all you like.
Originally posted by shihulud
They were quite tolerant of other religions, just not tolerant of upstarts.
Originally posted by shihulud Why is that???? Hmmm??? Might it be something to do witht the fact early christians suppressed everything - burning books and persecution ring any bells? I mean why wouldnt they want to suppress any other messianic figure??
Originally posted by shihulud Yes but quite a few have written about bush and on many occasion ( some funnier than others - 'subliminabal messages' makes me laugh). You would think that someone other than matthew would notice the dead walking the streets of jerusalem.
Originally posted by shihulud
These are even weirder and more news worthy than 'subliminable messages' wouldn't you say???
Originally posted by shihulud
No, proof of being does not afford divinity.
Originally posted by shihulud
Would you say Koresh was divine? or Jim Jones?
Originally posted by shihulud
These people had followers too as have many religious leaders and you dont consider their claim to divinity.
Originally posted by shihulud
Simon???, well its written in a book with a bias to jesus, doesn't that tell you something????
Originally posted by shihulud
so because jesus is yours that automatically makes him the one.
Originally posted by shihulud
Thats are fair enough, if thats how you figure the world to be - ok,
Originally posted by shihulud
but dont think that because this is your world view then it should be everyones especially when there is no corroborating evidence, only your subjective conviction.