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Who were the other Messiahs?

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posted on Nov, 21 2006 @ 10:13 AM
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Question for all here .... A while back my husband and I heard reference to some books that were around BEFORE the bible.


It would seem that your question got buried in the p***** contest going on here.
While I am not an expert in this area on that I can point to is the Epic of Gilgamesh.




posted on Nov, 21 2006 @ 10:27 AM
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[
Question for all here .... A while back my husband and I heard reference to some books that were around BEFORE the bible.


The problem is in the question. What book was around before "In the beginning..." ?



posted on Nov, 21 2006 @ 01:08 PM
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Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by theTRUTHtheWAY
That is why people make me sick. What makes you think that ONE is better than the other? Does God love you more than me for you follow the bible and i the koran?
One day you all will understand - love all


How ironic that being one with your username you'd overlook "Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." - John 14:6

Except through who?

"I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber." - John 10:1

This message from the one Christ, the Messiah, is given out of love because he cares about us entering that gate.


So you are saying only thrugh Jesus we can get to God, right?
So what about a child from some tribe that lives deep in the jungles, he has no idea of Jesus or the Bible - so according to you that means he goes to hell.

I tell you one thing, Jesus is not materialistic. It is his spirit that is within us all, and if we follow our hearts and do deeds out of love...then we are with him and god.

As for the bible... the holy book has been edited more than this Java program here at work. So many passages totally cut out and so many editions.... it isnt the word of God anymore... its is the word of man... and there is nothing holy about that. For we all are sinners.



posted on Nov, 21 2006 @ 01:19 PM
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Now you cant get any more close minded than this. How do you know there were not true messiahs?... you have proof. What kind of God is your God who only glorifies Jesus Christ but not Muhammad (example)? Doesnt your God love/glorify all? Arent Jesus and Muhammad both the creation of God? Why does your God love one more than the other? Dont you think your God is being racist?


Did Muhammad every say he was God? no i dont think so.

I'm sorry to tell you, but Jesus is the way the truth and the life, no one goes to the father but through him. Christ is God incarnate.

Muhammmad was just a man, a very noble man, but a man none the less.
Christ also came to die for him, so yes, God does love everyone as you say.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."John 3:16

Yes, it is true that god loves everyone, but we are all sinners and Christ is the only way to be redeemed back to god. God is a just judge and only christ can truly redeem us.

Think of it like this, let's say you get a speeding ticket and you're taken to court, the Judge is fining you 300$, but you tell him i'm sorry your honor,I dont have the money but i'll never do it again.

If the Judge is just do you think he is gonna let you go just because you said you're sorry, no, he will not. But lets say that the judge is your father, and he doesnt want you to got to prison because you can't pay, so he comes up to you and gives you the 300 dollars you need to pay the fine, Would you accept it, or reject it?

I would accept. it's up to you.



you are not acting upon the name you carry (humble one). Looks like the lessons of Jesus Christ have not soaked in with you yet. For he loved all no matter what.


I think christ teachings have been soaking in fine thank you very much.


That is why people make me sick. What makes you think that ONE is better than the other? Does God love you more than me for you follow the bible and i the koran?
One day you all will understand - love all


Why do I make you sick? I did not make this up, but it was Christ who said he is the way the truth and the life.

There can only be one truth, Truth is not relative like how people from now think it is, and i just happen to believe that the one true truth is Jesus Christ.



posted on Nov, 21 2006 @ 01:20 PM
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Originally posted by theTRUTHtheWAY
So you are saying only thrugh Jesus we can get to God, right?


Jesus is saying only through Jesus we can get to God.


Originally posted by theTRUTHtheWAY
So what about a child from some tribe that lives deep in the jungles, he has no idea of Jesus or the Bible - so according to you that means he goes to hell.


To say that would be to ignore what else the Bible has to say.


Originally posted by theTRUTHtheWAY
I tell you one thing, Jesus is not materialistic.


No dispute here.


Originally posted by theTRUTHtheWAY
It is his spirit that is within us all, and if we follow our hearts and do deeds out of love...then we are with him and god.

As for the bible... the holy book has been edited more than this Java program here at work.


What did it used to say versus what does it say now? Please be specific.


Originally posted by theTRUTHtheWAY
So many passages totally cut out and so many editions.... it isnt the word of God anymore... its is the word of man... and there is nothing holy about that.


Ask God. He can validate any confusion on scripture. Knowing Christ is not a relationship with a book...but the Book can really help your relationship with Christ.


Originally posted by theTRUTHtheWAY
For we all are sinners.


For someone who seems to have issue for the Bible, you have no problem quoting it...

"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God," - Romans 3:23

What about the rest of that passage?

"This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe...and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus."

...or do you pick and choose what you find useful?

[edit on 21-11-2006 by saint4God]



posted on Nov, 21 2006 @ 01:44 PM
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there is no physical or scientific proof that Christ ever existed. No one can prove or disprove it. For all we know he could have been a made up character with all these powers which in turn are used to promote him as god and pull people toward that religion.

And for you guys to run around and qoute his sayings like you actually lived with him is just ridiculous. You have no idea my friends...



posted on Nov, 21 2006 @ 01:45 PM
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for gods sake.....
just look at ur signature saint4God....



posted on Nov, 21 2006 @ 02:14 PM
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Originally posted by theTRUTHtheWAY
there is no physical or scientific proof that Christ ever existed.


There's no scientific or physical proof of love, but it does exist. There's no scientific or physical proof of thought, but that exists. We can, however, obtain personal proofs of all three.


Originally posted by theTRUTHtheWAY
And for you guys to run around and qoute his sayings like you actually lived with him is just ridiculous.


It may seem ridiculous to you. The verb is actually "live", present tense.


Originally posted by theTRUTHtheWAY
You have no idea my friends...


From the sounds of it, it is you who has no idea. I used to be a non-believer before, I have not forgotten what its like.


Originally posted by theTRUTHtheWAY
for gods sake.....
just look at ur signature saint4God....


What about it? ...and why would you think I'd post a link on every post that I haven't looked at?

[edit on 21-11-2006 by saint4God]



posted on Nov, 21 2006 @ 02:23 PM
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If Jesus existed...he certainly was a physical being. How can you compare a physical being to love and thought.... thats not rational.

Secondly
your sinature is promoting christianity... how can you make an asumption that christianity is for everybody and that if we dont go through christ we are not deserving of God.

Thirdly
You can not compare my belief system to yours nor can you make me believe in what you believe. Nobody and nothing can bring me to God but myself. All the tool I need are within me and noone can tell me otherwise.



posted on Nov, 21 2006 @ 02:24 PM
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Originally posted by theTRUTHtheWAY
for gods sake.....
just look at ur signature saint4God....


Just add him to your 'ignore' list... it'll make this thread much more bearable to read.

What a great thing that function is.



posted on Nov, 21 2006 @ 02:28 PM
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Originally posted by firebat

Originally posted by theTRUTHtheWAY
for gods sake.....
just look at ur signature saint4God....


Just add him to your 'ignore' list... it'll make this thread much more bearable to read.

What a great thing that function is.


Why would I ignore him... this site is all about opinions and disputes. We are here to learn from eachother



posted on Nov, 21 2006 @ 02:32 PM
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Originally posted by theTRUTHtheWAY

Originally posted by firebat

Originally posted by theTRUTHtheWAY
for gods sake.....
just look at ur signature saint4God....


Just add him to your 'ignore' list... it'll make this thread much more bearable to read.

What a great thing that function is.


Why would I ignore him... this site is all about opinions and disputes. We are here to learn from eachother


And what, pray tell, has saint4God to offer? He ridicules other people's sources when they are just as legit (if not more than) than the biased source that he uses. His objective in this thread is clearly not to provide anything to the discussion but to automatically reject what anyone else says because he thinks he knows he's right. He is only interested in converting people to his religion, thus the constant peddling.

But if you see value in his posts, by all means-- read them.

[edit on 21-11-2006 by firebat]



posted on Nov, 21 2006 @ 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by firebat

Originally posted by theTRUTHtheWAY

Originally posted by firebat

Originally posted by theTRUTHtheWAY
for gods sake.....
just look at ur signature saint4God....


Just add him to your 'ignore' list... it'll make this thread much more bearable to read.

What a great thing that function is.


Why would I ignore him... this site is all about opinions and disputes. We are here to learn from eachother


And what, pray tell, has saint4God to offer? He ridicules other people's sources when they are just as legit (if not more than) than the biased source that he uses. His objective in this thread is clearly not to provide anything to the discussion but to automatically reject what anyone else says because he thinks he knows he's right. He is only interested in converting people to his religion, thus the constant peddling.

But if you see value in his posts, by all means-- read them.

[edit on 21-11-2006 by firebat]


I like i stated before... noone can convince me to belive in what they believe. Even tho saint4God is one of those christian fanatics... i love disputing him. He is like those christian promoters that go to third world countries and brainwash people into believing what they believe. Trying to spread the religion like a disease.

That my friend is not the way of God.

[edit on 21-11-2006 by theTRUTHtheWAY]



posted on Nov, 21 2006 @ 03:08 PM
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Originally posted by theTRUTHtheWAY
Even tho saint4God is one of those christian fanatics... i love disputing him. He


You're both (firebat too) gender assumptive, aren't you? That's not the only judgement in the statement above.


Originally posted by theTRUTHtheWAY
is like those christian promoters that go to third world countries and brainwash people into believing what they believe.


Behold my brainwashing powers! Muhahaha!
Remove that tin foil hat so I can get to you too @_@. Oh wait! You're not third world! Oh noes! Your 1st world superiority defeats me! I must be off to the Galapagos in search of a long lost tribe...


Originally posted by theTRUTHtheWAY
Trying to spread the religion like a disease.


Interesting analogy, though the antithesis of the base message...which is the love of God.


Originally posted by theTRUTHtheWAY
That my friend is not the way of God.


Very well then, go to God directly! It would save me a lot of work.

[edit on 21-11-2006 by saint4God]



posted on Nov, 21 2006 @ 04:21 PM
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Lets get back on the topic of other alternative messiahs.



Originally posted by CX
so why were they forgotten?"

Their cults weren't popular enough.

I'd never heard of this. Is this an old and well known theory or something that has been kept quiet?

No. The knowledge has been publically available for an extremely long time. People just for the most part aren't interested in it. There are even people today who are beleived by their followers to be the messiah.

If this is true, why have people been worshiping Jesus and not the "others"

Why should people worship these other guys?

, and who is to say people have'nt been worshiping the wrong guy?

No one is to say. Its not one of those things that there's going to be a clear, objective, rational answer to. Its religion.



lonegunman
There is a new messiah about every 2,000 years as I understand it. Every astrological age bring a new Messiah.

?
There is nothing in jewish tradition supporting that. Using messiah out of the jewish traditions doesn't really make much sense. The messiah is a person annointed by god to free the jews from outside rule, restore the kingdom of isreal, and rule it. Christers make the claim that those were all metaphors, and that jesus fufiled it. Most other claimants to being the messiah have made more literal interpretations of it.

What you are talking about is more of a 'great prophet' than a messiah. There's not supposed to be multiple messiahs even, just one, to overthrow the foreign rulers and re-establish israel.



djohnsto77
but they were mainly militant people who wanted to lead armed rebellion against the Romans as I remember

Which, of course, is what the scriptures said the messiah would be, a physical person that would be annointed by god to free the jews from oppression.


st udio
none of those others had a class act promotor like 'Paul'

Yes, but then again, neither have any other great prophets either.



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 06:55 AM
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Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by shihulud
And the church isn't one of the wealthiest organisations on th planet??????


The one I go to is a non-profit organization. Erego, no.
So your one of these Unorthodox christians, a Heretic to other christians? Non-profit - somehow I dont think so. And is your 'church' the only church? Is the catholic church poor????



Originally posted by shihulud
Look at your televangelists


They're not my televangelists. I don't like watching tv most of the time.
Their christians aren't they? Just like you or do you have your own wee version of christianity, how jesus should be and the like?



Originally posted by shihulud
And how much money have you ploughed into your religion? To get your 'secrets'!!!


Got a pencil? Here's the math. $0.00 . And, as I've said whilst it is repeatedly ignored, I'm willing to pay the cost to give it to others. I hold no secrets about God. It is a free gift He gives, and I'd love other people to have it too.
So you have never spent any money in your entire life to learn of your religion? You have never given any money to your church for anything?



Originally posted by shihulud
Lets see!!! Josephus's comments on jesus are more likely to be fraudulent


I wasn't asked to verify the sources, I was asked to provide them. I'd like the reader to read them and make a determination. People don't need to be spoonfed.
But you used them knowing full well that the Josephus account is more than likely a fraud just to try and prove a point.


What does 'chrestus' mean?
Well thats debateable, some scholars think it might refer to jesus while others think it might refer to another jewish instigator. Other scholars believe it to be a general term meaning 'good' or 'useful' and was used as a name for slaves.


There was a riot for no reason? These writings of 'christus' were written around the time of Jesus? How many "coincidences" have to occur before they are no longer coincidence?
There were quite a lot of revolts and riots at the time, also there were quite a few 'messiah christs' around at the time so I dont even see the 'coincidence'



Originally posted by shihulud
To go further - there even is no mention of jesus and his miracles etc from contempory writers of the time, No mention of the thousands of people that were supposed to follow him,


Clearly there were "supposed followers" else there'd be NO writings and all. And, the growth started there to the numbers there are today.
That doesnt mean that jesus was a historical person, there are people who follow some strange crap, but their deity never existed.


It is documented there are anti-christs. Being that Christ says he's the one and only son of God, then the others would have to be anti-that.
LOL, they all say they are the son of god, so because jesus is yours that automatically makes him the one.



G



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 07:43 AM
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Originally posted by shihulud
So your one of these Unorthodox christians, a Heretic to other christians?


I don't care for labels. They're useful for describing oneself, judgemental to place upon others. I follow and believe Christ erego I am a Christian.


Originally posted by shihulud
Non-profit - somehow I dont think so.


Think what you like.


Originally posted by shihulud
And is your 'church' the only church?


No, but it is one I support. You'd like me to be accountable for things I don't support?


Originally posted by shihulud
Is the catholic church poor????


Don't know, I've not read their quarterly or annual report. I have for my church.


Originally posted by shihulud
Their christians aren't they?


I don't know, I've never met them...nor can I say for absolute sure if I did. God only knows their heart.


Originally posted by shihulud
Just like you or do you have your own wee version of christianity, how jesus should be and the like?


Christ says who he's like. I don't need any other version. Also, knowing Christ is having a daily relationship with God. That's the primary source of Christian life.


Originally posted by shihulud
So you have never spent any money in your entire life to learn of your religion?


I've spent none to receive the gift of eternal life. I've a wandering curiousity to pick up a book or two about the subject, but they don't say anything the Book doesn't say already. The more secular books I read though, the more I feel I need to get back to the Root and study it more.


Originally posted by shihulud
But you used them knowing full well that the Josephus account is more than likely a fraud just to try and prove a point.


I do not know that, nor would knowingly use a false document to validate a true one.


Originally posted by shihulud


What does 'chrestus' mean?
Well thats debateable,


Really...


Originally posted by shihulud
some scholars think it might refer to jesus while others think it might refer to another jewish instigator. Other scholars believe it to be a general term meaning 'good' or 'useful' and was used as a name for slaves.


Even the people here who like to use wordplay can see the obviousness of the connection. It's somewhat insulting to people who know latin/ancient civilizations to say the Romans didn't know how to use their words.


Originally posted by shihulud
There were quite a lot of revolts and riots at the time,


And why do you think that is? Romans were very tolerant of the Hebrews practising their religion, were they not?


Originally posted by shihulud
also there were quite a few 'messiah christs' around at the time so I dont even see the 'coincidence'


There is not coincidence at all, which is why I'd raised the question. Of the "few messiah christs" of the time...we know of only one? Only Jesus is recorded in several books? Again, things that make you go hm....


Originally posted by shihulud
To go further - there even is no mention of jesus and his miracles etc from contempory writers of the time, No mention of the thousands of people that were supposed to follow him,


I never wrote a book about President Bush but that does not mean he doesn't exist. Clearly he exists...and I do write.


Originally posted by shihulud
That doesnt mean that jesus was a historical person, there are people who follow some strange crap, but their deity never existed.


Supposing we could agree upon and had proof positive that Jesus existed in the flesh, would you then believe he was the Son of God? If I'm going to do more homework about it, I'd like to know whether it will be a pointless exercise or worthwhile.


Originally posted by shihulud
LOL, they all say they are the son of god,


Not all. Per Simon the Sorcerer (for example), some of the crowd just believed he had the Divine Power. It does not state he stated he did. There's a good reason for that.


Originally posted by shihulud
so because jesus is yours that automatically makes him the one.

G


I did not have a coming to Jesus through deductive reasoning. I asked and sought out the truth and it was given to me (as promised "seek and you will find, knock and the door with be opened to you"). There's nothing inside this brain that will go "aha! I've figured it out! Jesus must be the Son of God because of x, y, and z". Maybe there are people who can arrive at that conclusion this way but I'm certainly not one of them. Because of my stubborn cynicism, I had to be shown the truth else I'd not believe. Even then I questioned my own eyes, ears and heart of the experience to where it was necessary to receive further validations. Wave after wave until I'm saying now "I get it!" beyond any doubt. In addition, I've been given the tools to help others establish that connection...but of course cannot do any work (nor would I want to) if no-one wants me to check the cable. Hope that helps paint a better picture.


[edit on 22-11-2006 by saint4God]



posted on Nov, 23 2006 @ 05:49 PM
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Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by shihulud
So your one of these Unorthodox christians, a Heretic to other christians?


I don't care for labels. They're useful for describing oneself, judgemental to place upon others. I follow and believe Christ erego I am a Christian.

Would that be a version not adhered to by orthodox or main christian denominations????




Originally posted by shihulud
Just like you or do you have your own wee version of christianity, how jesus should be and the like?


Christ says who he's like. I don't need any other version. Also, knowing Christ is having a daily relationship with God. That's the primary source of Christian life.
But you dont know christ, what he looked like or who he was, you only know what was written by others.




Originally posted by shihulud
But you used them knowing full well that the Josephus account is more than likely a fraud just to try and prove a point.


I do not know that, nor would knowingly use a false document to validate a true one.

Are you trying to tell me that you never knew the possibility that the references to jesus by jospehus might be fraudulent???? How long have you been a member of ATS???




Originally posted by shihulud


What does 'chrestus' mean?
Well thats debateable,


Really...


Originally posted by shihulud
some scholars think it might refer to jesus while others think it might refer to another jewish instigator. Other scholars believe it to be a general term meaning 'good' or 'useful' and was used as a name for slaves.


Even the people here who like to use wordplay can see the obviousness of the connection. It's somewhat insulting to people who know latin/ancient civilizations to say the Romans didn't know how to use their words.

Oh yes, so obvious, herd in english means a congregation of animals while heard means that you audibly remember something. Its funny what a letter here (geddit here, hear) and there (their, they're) can do to the meaning of a word, so be insulted all you like.



Originally posted by shihulud
There were quite a lot of revolts and riots at the time,


And why do you think that is? Romans were very tolerant of the Hebrews practising their religion, were they not?
They were quite tolerant of other religions, just not tolerant of upstarts.



Originally posted by shihulud
also there were quite a few 'messiah christs' around at the time so I dont even see the 'coincidence'


There is not coincidence at all, which is why I'd raised the question. Of the "few messiah christs" of the time...we know of only one? Only Jesus is recorded in several books? Again, things that make you go hm....
Why is that???? Hmmm??? Might it be something to do witht the fact early christians suppressed everything - burning books and persecution ring any bells? I mean why wouldnt they want to suppress any other messianic figure??



Originally posted by shihulud
To go further - there even is no mention of jesus and his miracles etc from contempory writers of the time, No mention of the thousands of people that were supposed to follow him,


I never wrote a book about President Bush but that does not mean he doesn't exist. Clearly he exists...and I do write.
Yes but quite a few have written about bush and on many occasion ( some funnier than others - 'subliminabal messages' makes me laugh). You would think that someone other than matthew would notice the dead walking the streets of jerusalem. These are even weirder and more news worthy than 'subliminable messages' wouldn't you say???



Supposing we could agree upon and had proof positive that Jesus existed in the flesh, would you then believe he was the Son of God? If I'm going to do more homework about it, I'd like to know whether it will be a pointless exercise or worthwhile.
No, proof of being does not afford divinity. Would you say Koresh was divine? or Jim Jones? These people had followers too as have many religious leaders and you dont consider their claim to divinity.



Originally posted by shihulud
LOL, they all say they are the son of god,


Not all. Per Simon the Sorcerer (for example), some of the crowd just believed he had the Divine Power. It does not state he stated he did. There's a good reason for that.
Simon???, well its written in a book with a bias to jesus, doesn't that tell you something????



Originally posted by shihulud
so because jesus is yours that automatically makes him the one.

G


I did not have a coming to Jesus through deductive reasoning. I asked and sought out the truth and it was given to me (as promised "seek and you will find, knock and the door with be opened to you"). There's nothing inside this brain that will go "aha! I've figured it out! Jesus must be the Son of God because of x, y, and z". Maybe there are people who can arrive at that conclusion this way but I'm certainly not one of them. Because of my stubborn cynicism, I had to be shown the truth else I'd not believe. Even then I questioned my own eyes, ears and heart of the experience to where it was necessary to receive further validations. Wave after wave until I'm saying now "I get it!" beyond any doubt. In addition, I've been given the tools to help others establish that connection...but of course cannot do any work (nor would I want to) if no-one wants me to check the cable. Hope that helps paint a better picture.


[edit on 22-11-2006 by saint4God]
Thats are fair enough, if thats how you figure the world to be - ok, but dont think that because this is your world view then it should be everyones especially when there is no corroborating evidence, only your subjective conviction.






G



posted on Nov, 23 2006 @ 08:22 PM
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the thing about books on Bush is that im pretty sure he is on a few videos.

pretty much a weak argument when i can actually pull a picture of Bush up in about 1 second, not to name quite a few other million people or so!

sadly, they didnt have blu-ray when Jebus did his thang.



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 07:21 AM
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Hope everyone had a happy thankGodforgiving holyday!


Originally posted by shihulud

Originally posted by saint4God
I don't care for labels. They're useful for describing oneself, judgemental to place upon others. I follow and believe Christ erego I am a Christian.

Would that be a version not adhered to by orthodox or main christian denominations????


I don't care for labels. They're useful for describing oneself, judgemental to place upon others. I follow and believe Christ erego I am a Christian.


Originally posted by shihulud
But you dont know christ,


It's apparent to me that you don't know that I know Christ.


Originally posted by shihulud
what he looked like or who he was, you only know what was written by others.


What he looks like and who he is. He's not dead and gone. Those who say he is doesn't know him. I can say I've been there before myself though so I'm not without understanding the position.


Originally posted by shihulud
Are you trying to tell me that you never knew the possibility that the references to jesus by jospehus might be fraudulent???? How long have you been a member of ATS???


I think if you clicky on my name under "members" that question is easily answered...but I think it's irrelevant. I've read Josephus and about him, but not enough to make any determinations one way or another.


Originally posted by shihulud
Oh yes, so obvious, herd in english means a congregation of animals while heard means that you audibly remember something. Its funny what a letter here (geddit here, hear) and there (their, they're) can do to the meaning of a word, so be insulted all you like.


I'm not insulted at all. By the way, I've contacted a director of the church and verified they are a non-profit organization. After reading the quarterly report, it looked like a non-prof. (from what I know from business and charities) but I hadn't actually asked until we'd discussed it and you'd expressed doubt.


Originally posted by shihulud
They were quite tolerant of other religions, just not tolerant of upstarts.


You mean, not tolerant of those who declared themselves a king?
How many other messiahs had done so and were crucified? How many others came back from the dead?


Originally posted by shihulud Why is that???? Hmmm??? Might it be something to do witht the fact early christians suppressed everything - burning books and persecution ring any bells? I mean why wouldnt they want to suppress any other messianic figure??


You're seeming to overlook the book of Acts altogether. The Christian Church was the persecuted BEFORE it became part of the Roman Empire, yet it survived. It was because of that kings/emporers wanted it on their side to enact their powers. These abuses are anti-Christ as Christ says "love your neighbor" and "love your enemy".


Originally posted by shihulud Yes but quite a few have written about bush and on many occasion ( some funnier than others - 'subliminabal messages' makes me laugh). You would think that someone other than matthew would notice the dead walking the streets of jerusalem.


They did and did write about it.


Originally posted by shihulud
These are even weirder and more news worthy than 'subliminable messages' wouldn't you say???


*nods* It is weird. But, doesn't make it unreal.


Originally posted by shihulud
No, proof of being does not afford divinity.


Then I'll make no attempt to show that Jesus existed in the flesh.


Originally posted by shihulud
Would you say Koresh was divine? or Jim Jones?


Nope.


Originally posted by shihulud
These people had followers too as have many religious leaders and you dont consider their claim to divinity.


This is true, neither had either saved me from death. Nor did they show up to the party when I called.


Originally posted by shihulud
Simon???, well its written in a book with a bias to jesus, doesn't that tell you something????


History/Science books are written with bias. Even data reported in research is biased. What's your point? The only thing that matters is whether or not they are true.


Originally posted by shihulud
so because jesus is yours that automatically makes him the one.


Let me flip that statement to make it accurate. I am one of his. My perspective is not the basis for reality.


Originally posted by shihulud
Thats are fair enough, if thats how you figure the world to be - ok,


Cool, thanks for understanding.


Originally posted by shihulud
but dont think that because this is your world view then it should be everyones especially when there is no corroborating evidence, only your subjective conviction.


There are evidences, they are there. We all have the choice to investigate them and accept or reject them. I repect each individual's right to choice and am grateful I have the same. I offer not a mere conviction, but also guidance for those seeking their evidence as well. I cannot give anyone my proof and expect them to believe (because they had not seen/heard/lived what I did) but I can help them obtain their own.

[edit on 24-11-2006 by saint4God]



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