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Originally posted by firebat
But we have NOT established that Jesus Christ was THE only Christ... we have only your biased source to make that claim.
Originally posted by firebat
How do you counter the argument that these two historical figures both resembled Jesus Christ in extraordinary ways?
Originally posted by firebat
Besides, the fact that the Bible says Christ was the only one, do you have any other sources to back that up? Any independent verification?
Originally posted by firebat
Because it's not enough for me.
Originally posted by firebat
If you have nothing else... then this discussion, as far as you and I are concerned, is over.
Originally posted by saint4God
Originally posted by firebat
But we have NOT established that Jesus Christ was THE only Christ... we have only your biased source to make that claim.
This is incorrect. YOU have not established that Jesus Christ is the only Christ. I have. And, as I've said there are many sources you can use to verify.
Originally posted by saint4God
Now that we've established there's only one...
Originally posted by firebat
WE... as in YOU and I... have not established that there's only one Christ.
Originally posted by saint4God
Originally posted by firebat
WE... as in YOU and I... have not established that there's only one Christ.
My apologies then, I thought you were on-board as it's pretty clearly stated. It wasn't until you'd stated otherwise that I realized it was no longer a we, but an I. I then carried forward with the I instead of we, but you cannot discount me with your we if I'm still on-board.
[edit on 20-11-2006 by saint4God]
Originally posted by firebat
We implies 'You and I'...
YOU and I, together, have not established that Jesus was the only Christ. Therefore, WE have not established that Jesus was the only Christ. You have established, for yourself, that he is.... but you have not convinced me. Therefore, it is not an established fact for me. And that means that WE haven't established it. You, and only you, have established the premise. That is it.
Hope that clears it up for you.
There are more than 28 'godmen' that share similarities with jesus, Horus being one with the most. And thats not including the so called messiahs that were around at the time. BTW I have read Cotterell and he has some interesting information
Originally posted by firebat
Additionally...
There are other connections between the Biblical Christ and other Christ-figures from around the world. Hinduism's Krishna and Christ share many similarities.... they were both born from miracles. Both of their births were foretold. Christ was depicted a shepherd and Krishna a cow-herder. The word Krishna in Greek is "Christos."
Jesus was clearly not the only Christ to walk the Earth.
And the church isn't one of the wealthiest organisations on th planet?????? Look at your televangelists (those people should be fed to the lions)
Originally posted by saint4God
If it were the truth about God and eternity, he wouldn't be concerned with trivial matters such as making money off of it.
And how much money have you ploughed into your religion? To get your 'secrets'!!!
Originally posted by saint4God
Originally posted by firebat
in scrutinizing my posts and sources because they are not the Bible.
I've expressed that I cannot see the information you're talking about because I have to pay a few hundred pounds to get these "secrets"
Lets see!!! Josephus's comments on jesus are more likely to be fraudulent as there is really no mention of it until then end of the 3rd century, even christian writers made no mention of it!!! Tacitus mentions only 'chrestus', no jesus in there. He also states that Pilate was a procurator not a prefect as mentioned elsewhere. I'll go on - Pliny mentions 'christus and 'excessive superstition'; Seutonius mentions 'chrestus' and is talking of of a riot that happened abot 20 years after the supposed death of jesus. As such NO mention of jesus is recorded historically anywhere bar the bible. To go further - there even is no mention of jesus and his miracles etc from contempory writers of the time, No mention of the thousands of people that were supposed to follow him, No mention of the dead walking the streets of jerusalem or earthquakes or darkening of the sky when supposed jesus died. I could go on and on.
Originally posted by saint4God
Originally posted by firebat
That is not an independent source that can objectively verify your claim.
They are available, but are less accurate. Tacitus and Josephus also support as well as others. Bearing in mind also that the Bible is a collection of independent sources at that time, not a single book.
[edit on 20-11-2006 by saint4God]
As I have shown your verifiable evidence is not evidence at all and should not be used as such.
Originally posted by saint4God
Originally posted by firebat
But we have NOT established that Jesus Christ was THE only Christ... we have only your biased source to make that claim.
This is incorrect. YOU have not established that Jesus Christ is the only Christ. I have. And, as I've said there are many sources you can use to verify.
Originally posted by firebat
If you have nothing else... then this discussion, as far as you and I are concerned, is over.
That's up to you friend. I'm always willing to help others obtain their verification should they have sincere interest to do so.
There were many christs if you would care to do a little bit of research and jesus wasn't even the last of them. And just to interject that you have provided no evidence either to your claim.
Originally posted by saint4God
Originally posted by firebat
How do you counter the argument that these two historical figures both resembled Jesus Christ in extraordinary ways?
This was not your claim. Your claim was that there were many christs. This is what I addressed. In addition, your claim did not provide documention. Only "books for sale".
All early cultures had a creation story some of which resembles the biblical story - sumerians, akkadians, egyptians, mayans, incans to name but a few. Do a google search on creation myths to find out more.
Originally posted by FlyersFan
Originally posted by firebat
omniscients need not bother their righteous little minds with it. You just keep your ignorant faces stuck in your bibles.
That wasn't nice.
Question for all here .... A while back my husband and I heard reference to some books that were around BEFORE the bible. They had the creation story and the Noah story, and the Jews/Christians referenced those stories for their own books FROM these prior books.
Does anyone know about those?
edited for spelling
[edit on 11/20/2006 by FlyersFan]
According to him these ages are "determined by the equinox precession, were shown to last approximately two thousand years and they were called by the name of the sign of the zodiac crossed during the interval. For each and every age there corresponded an aeon, i.e. the revealing of a new divine attribute by the incarnation of a new avatar.
The Age of Gemini
The Age of Gemini (c.6000 - c.4000) corresponded to the flourishing period of early Hinduism. It was under this sign that Rama, the seventh incarnation of Vishnu was manifested by the birth of the two pair of brothers: Rama and Lakshmana on the one hand, Satrughna and Bharata on the other. Rama Himself had twin sons: Lav and Kush (in harmony with the name of the constellation where the Sun was at that time.) Lav went to Russia from this we get the name of Slav. The other son, Kush went to China, hence we get the name Kushan. These two divine principles were also incarnated as Buddha and Mahavira, then as Adi Shankaracharya and Gnyaneshwara. In other Avatars they were Hassan and Hussein the sons of Fatima and Hazrat Ali . . . Rama incarnated during the Treta Yuga when the fourth chakra (Adi Anahathh) was opened in Virata. Anahathh is an important centre of the human being since it is here (on the left side, at the heart level) where the individual Spirit or the Self resides. "For where your treasure is, there also will your heart be" Jesus said (Luke 12:34.)
The Age of Taurus
The Age of Taurus (c.4000 - c.2000 B.C.). The aeon governing this age was Krishna, the eight Avatar, the Lord of the cows (Govinda.) The age stayed under the sign of the bull (Apis, or sacred bull Mnevis of Helipolis, identified to Ra), of the holy cow (Hathor in Egypt, surahbhi or Kamadhenu in India or may be worshipped in many spiritual cultures), or the golden calf in the polytheistic beliefs (see Exodus 32:4), preceding the Judaic monotheism. Krishna was said to have lived at the end of Dvapara Yuga (Encyclopaedia Universalis, Paris 1968, vol. 9, p.711) considered by some to have ended in the year 3102 B.C. (Zimmer, quoted work.) According to tradition, Krishna lived in the fourth millennium B.C. (La grande encyclopedie, H. Lamirault et Co., Paris, vol. 21, p.647.) During his time the fifth chakra (Adi Vishuddhi) of the Cosmic Being was enlightened.
The Age of Aries
The Age of Aries (c.2000 - 1 B.C.) was characterized by the establishment of the monotheistic Judaism through great spiritual personalities like Abraham (19th century B.C.) and Moses (13th century B.C.). Generally, this period was dominated by the manifestation of the universal principle of the spiritual master (Adi Guru Dattatreya.) Indeed, before the Christian era, Zarathustra incarnated (7th or 6th or even 10th century according to some opinions), Confucius and Lao-Tse (6th century), Socrates (5th century), alongside with the two great Jewish prophets (see chapt. X.) The symbol of the ram (or the Passover lamb) appeared as an object of sacrifice instead of worship, as a reaction against the belief of the previous age. That could be illustrated by the cult of Mithra who stabbed the mythological bull.
The Age of Pisces
The Age of Pisces (A.D. 1 - c.2000) during which Christianity appeared and spread out. The fish was known to have been the secret sign used by the early Christians to identify each other. The Greek word Ichtus (=fish) was made up of the following phrase capitals (acrostic): Iesous Christos Theou Uios Soter (=Jesus Christ Son of God, the Saviour.) In Hinduism it was also the symbol of the Saviour (Vishnu's first incarnation in the shape of a fish saved Manu from the flood)...
Similar to Mahavishnu, Jesus represented the ninth Avatar, who opened the Agnya chakra within the Cosmic Being. The reflection of this chakra at the microcosmic human level is situated in the centre of the forehead where the left channel (Ida nadi) and the right channel (Pingala nadi) form a subtle crossing. From an anatomical point of view, this is the place of:
* i) the chiasma opticalis (optical nerve crossing), corresponding to the anterior aspect of the chakra (front Agnya);
* ii) the decussatio pyramidum (crossing of the motor nuclei fibres of the spinal nerves for the upper limb and upper trunk and for the lower limb and lower trunk respectively), corresponding to the posterior aspect of the chakra (back Agnya.)
The three channels cross at the Agnya which represents the most narrow way for the Kundalini to pass through. It is the "narrow gate" that Jesus said about: "Strive with earnestness to enter through the narrow door, for many, I say, will seek to enter and will not be able" (Luke 13:24.) "Enter through the narrow gate" (Matthew 7:13.) Jesus revealed Himself as the Master of the Agnya chakra: "I am the door; if any one enter in by Me, he shall be saved" (John 10.9.) He will be saved because he will be able to reach the end, of the spiritual ascent, Sahasrara (the Kingdom of Heavens the synthesis of all chakras, where the individual Spirit joins with the Universal Spirit - God.)
The Mahabharata (14.2784) says that the gate of heaven is very small and narrow. It cannot be seen by those without any sense and blinded by the vain illusions of this world. Even those who can see well, who see the way and want to enter, will find the door locked and hard to open. Its heavy bolts are pride, lust, greed and debauchery. Jesus said to the Pharisees: "The kingdom of God does not come with observation" (Luke 17:20.) Schmemaan wrote: "For the early Christians the all-encompassing reality and the terrific newness of their belief was precisely that the Kingdom had drawn near and though unseen, it had already been there, among the people, illuminating and working in the world."
The Agnya chakra controls mental processes. Maitrayana Upanishad says (6:34) that the thoughts are the only cause of the cycle of birth and death; man, therefore should endeavour to purify his thoughts. A man is what he thinks: this is the ancient secret. The same idea was expressed by Guatama Buddha in the first line of the Dhammapada: All that we are is the result of what we have thought, is based on our thoughts, and made out of our thoughts. That is why Yogis attach such a great importance to thought detachment and getting into the "thoughtless awareness" or Nirvichara Samadhi; the real state of meditation enabling the union (Yoga.)
The Age Of Aquarius
The Age of Aquarius (c.2000 ) starts at the dawn of Satya Yuga. The beginning of this age was estimated by various calculations around the year 2000. Some astrologers believe that mankind will step out of the mystical age of Pisces right into the luminous age of Aquarius between 2000 and 2050, which means the end of superstitions and of dogmatic religions (apud Bruno Wurtz.) It is not without interest to go back to the Ahmadiya Movement of Islam speaking about Mahdi's appearance on the Earth. We shall quote here Gibb and Kramer (Shorter Encyclopaedia of Islam, p.24): "To believe in His as the Second or the Promised Messiah is an article of faith, because first of all His coming early in the 14th century of the Hidjra was predicted by Muhammad." Or, Hidjra (Hegira), the starting point of the Muhammadan period was the 20th of September, 622 and that gives us the date close to the end of the year 1922 maybe the beginning of the year 1923 for the start of the new era.
Originally posted by thehumbleone
If you want to say that Jesus is not the true messiah or he didn't exist, be my guest.
I have faith in the father that what he has revealed is true.
Originally posted by shihulud
And the church isn't one of the wealthiest organisations on th planet??????
Originally posted by shihulud
Look at your televangelists
Originally posted by shihulud
(those people should be fed to the lions)
Originally posted by shihulud
And how much money have you ploughed into your religion? To get your 'secrets'!!!
Originally posted by shihulud
Lets see!!! Josephus's comments on jesus are more likely to be fraudulent
Originally posted by shihulud
Tacitus mentions only 'chrestus', no jesus in there.
Originally posted by shihulud
I'll go on - Pliny mentions 'christus and 'excessive superstition'; Seutonius mentions 'chrestus' and is talking of of a riot that happened abot 20 years after the supposed death of jesus.
Originally posted by shihulud
As such NO mention of jesus is recorded historically anywhere bar the bible.
Originally posted by shihulud
To go further - there even is no mention of jesus and his miracles etc from contempory writers of the time, No mention of the thousands of people that were supposed to follow him,
Originally posted by shihulud
No mention of the dead walking the streets of jerusalem or earthquakes or darkening of the sky when supposed jesus died. I could go on and on.
Originally posted by shihulud
There were many christs if you would care to do a little bit of research and jesus wasn't even the last of them. And just to interject that you have provided no evidence either to your claim.
Originally posted by shihulud
All early cultures had a creation story
Originally posted by shihulud
some of which resembles the biblical story - sumerians, akkadians, egyptians, mayans, incans to name but a few. Do a google search on creation myths to find out more.
G
Originally posted by Waiting2awake
To Saint4God, How can you possibly say the Yeshua was the only son of God?
Originally posted by Waiting2awake
Wasn't it thought that he himself was the reincarnation of Ellias,
Originally posted by Waiting2awake
and as such would not he also be the Son of God, also, wouldn't that mean that reiencarnation is correct, and this final judgement after only one life as per the doctrine is false?
Originally posted by Waiting2awake
Besides, as far as I can tell, we are all sons and daughters of God, even though we may not always act like it.
Originally posted by thehumbleone
None of the other "Messiahs" were remembered because they were not the true messiah.
God glorified the true messiah, Jesus Christ.
If you want to say that Jesus is not the true messiah or he didn't exist, be my guest.
I have faith in the father that what he has revealed is true.
Originally posted by theTRUTHtheWAY
That is why people make me sick. What makes you think that ONE is better than the other? Does God love you more than me for you follow the bible and i the koran?
One day you all will understand - love all