It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Russian Defector Poisoned

page: 2
3
<< 1    3  4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 11:45 AM
link   

This isotope of polonium is an alpha emitter that has a half-life of 138.39 days. A milligram of 210Po emits as many alpha particles as 5 grams of radium. A great deal of energy is released by its decay with a half a gram quickly reaching a temperature above 750 K. A few curies (gigabecquerels) of 210Po emit a blue glow which is caused by excitation of surrounding air. A single gram of 210Po generates 140 watts of heat energy. Since nearly all alpha radiation can be easily stopped by ordinary containers and upon hitting its surface releases its energy, 210Po has been used as a lightweight heat source to power thermoelectric cells in artificial satellites. A 210Po heat source was also used in each of the Lunokhod rovers deployed on the surface of the Moon, to keep their internal components warm during the lunar nights.


emphasis mine... Seems that even small amounts of Polonium 210 emitt huge amounts of energy, you'd think he'd notice if someone tried to slip him some in his tea...

Seems an unlikely way to kill someone and is particular expensive to produce.

Something seems odd to me.




posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 11:52 AM
link   
Sorry, some more info from the Los Alamos guys:


Handling
Polonium-210 is very dangerous to handle in even milligram or microgram amounts, and special equipment and strict control is necessary. Damage arises from the complete absorption of the energy of the alpha particle into tissue.

The maximum permissible body burden for ingested polonium is only 0.03 microcuries, which represents a particle weighing only 6.8 x 10-12 g. Weight for weight it is about 2.5 x 1011 times as toxic as hydrocyanic acid. The maximum allowable concentration for soluble polonium compounds in air is about 2 x 10-11 microcuries/cm3.


It just doesn't seem to add up. This stuff is so highly radioactive and gives off so much heat, that the guy who must have carried out the "assasination" must be running the risk of becoming ill himself.

Maybe they only used a tiny, tiny, absolutely microscopic amount, but it just seems unlikely you'd use this to bump someone off.

Use it in a dirty bomb where the Polonium is blast into an airborne powder...Now, there's an idea...



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 01:34 PM
link   
The element must either be injested, injected or inhailed to be dangerous. So it could be relatively easy to handle if the assassin were properly prepared. London police have discovered radiation at the restaurant that Mr. Litvineneko claimed he was poisoned at as well as a hotel room he had stayed in before becoming ill and at his home. Now whether he was exposed at all of these locations or he inadvertently contaminated them himself after being exposed at the restaurant still hasn't been determined.

Link



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 01:44 PM
link   
It doesn't seem to make sense when you look at in from an assasination point of view.

Actually it does. Think like a KGB agent.

What is the goal?

The goal is to prevent investigation into dirty laundry of Russian government.

By killing somebody in a way that makes it clear that only the Russian government could have done so, it amplifies the intended deterrent effect against the right people.

Not even a powerful mafia would bother or have the technical expertise and ability to acquire this capabilities. Polonium-210 is or once was used in the neutron initiators of fissile nuclear weapons and as far as I know the nuclear weapons infrastructure is its only source.

If this guy just died in a car crash, then other journalists will think "too bad about this guy, maybe he was offed but it could have been just a car crash."



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 02:36 PM
link   
What if the guy just took a radioactive pill? Isn't it possible that he knowingly commited suicide, to gain coverage into corrupt Russia, and to make people ask questions? The only question is where would you get such a pill. A contact maybe? Och, I dunno. Maybe M15 took him out, because Russia is an ally isn't he? We wouldn't want to be connected to Russia, if it came out that we were friends with a faux democracy, who murders dissidents.



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 04:24 PM
link   
New update for this story.


LONDON (Reuters) - Ex-KGB spy Alexander Litvinenko accused Russian President Vladimir Putin of his murder from beyond the grave on Friday, in a statement read out the morning after he died of an unknown poison in a London hospital.

"You may succeed in silencing one man. But a howl of protest from around the world will reverberate, Mr Putin, in your ears for the rest of your life. May God forgive you for what you have done," Litvinenko said in a statement read out by friends.

"You may succeed in silencing me, but that silence comes at a price. You have shown yourself to be as barbaric and ruthless as your most hostile critics claim," his statement said.


The Kremlin had shrugged off the accusations as nonsense and the Russian spy service had denied killing the ex-agent.


Source

Edit: Shortened link.

[edit on 24-11-2006 by intrepid]



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 04:31 PM
link   
Super Thug Boris Berezovsky and Baron Spindoctor Bell are more likely to have knocked off Alexander Litvinenko for polictical and monetary gains. Litvinenko has already spilled his guts out for the last 6 years and now he is suddenly become target of Russia, when he could of been eliminated years ago? To believe the Kremlin is now so sloppy, lethargic and incompetent in a revenge killing by using a slow acting radioactive substance that would surely put the finger on them, makes me wonder more how witless society has become or how mindless the media must think we are to believe this bahooey.

Scotland's Martin Kelly probably has the most in depth reporting to date about Litvinenko and visiting his blog will show a lot more than this little summary snippet below.


The Death Of Alexander Litvinenko Martin Kelly

...As a British citizen one is concerned for the welfare of fellow citizens like Tim Bell and Gerard Batten, given the nature of some of the company they seem to keep - no matter how worldly they might feel they are, they might be hanging around people who might be too hard even for them.

One wonders at just what this country has become, when a thug like Boris Berezovsky is able to walk into the halls of power, influence and above all else access on the back of nothing more than a fortune gained by extremely dubious means.

Whatever his loyalties, whatever he did, we owe it to our fellow citizen Alexander Litvinenko to get to the bottom of his death. Though he was not one us for long, we owe him that much - to show him that we're not like the rest of the world, not a place where power and influence is bought and sold; not people governed by 'siloviki' or oligarchs.


Yup, we are lead to believe the Kremlin now willingly frames themselves, but it smells more like big load of natgas.


EU-Russia summit in Helsinki


[edit on 24-11-2006 by Regenmacher]



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 04:57 PM
link   
Though Putin is an ex-KGB himself, it does not seem very smart to take care of someone in this way, it just draws unwanted attention...
Unless, of course, this is done as a diversion to hide the real target...
And considering ~190 day half-life of the material, as someone mentioned here earlier, we could probably eliminate Russia as the source of polonium, plus the whole radioactivity stuff looks really hard to get though the border undetected...



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 05:07 PM
link   

Originally posted by Regenmacher
..................
Yup, we are lead to believe the Kremlin now willingly frames themselves, but it smells more like big load of natgas.


Why not?.... Some seem to think the U.S. government is is just as incompetent as the Kremlin and that has included you has it not Regen?

I guess the Kremlin is perfect, which is why in their own news when a certain prominent anti-Putin person has been shot several times in the head the Kremlin reported it as a "suicide"....

Or when several girls, and teachers in schools and other people in other cities got sick and doctors who treated them thought they had been poisoned, but the Moscow backed government after doing some chemical and radiation tests conducted by experts from Moscow claimed it was all due to hysteria....

Yeah, i guess the Russian government could not have done something like this and then claimed it was not them...

[edit on 24-11-2006 by Muaddib]



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 06:59 PM
link   

Originally posted by Muaddib

Why not?.... Some seem to think the U.S. government is is just as incompetent as the Kremlin and that has included you has it not Regen?


Comparing incompetent apples to apples would mean showing a botched US assassination attempt of a federal agent using a radioactive substance.

Who did it? Five theories of Litvinenko's demise UK Times

Why not is because revenge is hardly a Kremlin motive in killing a low level goon who already spilled his guts of 10 year old info, especially during a time of key trade talks. Litvinenko became expendable since he has largely been exhausted himself of useful information, and thus he has become more useful as dead leverage.

Who is gaining the most is likely the most culpable.


A still mysterious death Guardian

Almost all the accusations against the Kremlin and the foreign intelligence service, SVR, have been made either by former KGB officers, turned by MI6, or by friends, associates, or employees of Boris Berezovsky, the Russian oligarch of the Yeltsin era, whom Moscow has tried and failed to extradite on fraud charges.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


Doesn't take an Hercule Poirot to see using Polonium would been one of the most inane options available to the KGB and would hurt Russian interests.



[edit on 24-11-2006 by Regenmacher]



posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 07:05 AM
link   

Originally posted by Regenmacher
.............
Doesn't take an Hercule Poirot to see using Polonium would been one of the most inane options available to the KGB and would hurt Russian interests.


how is that exactly? Look at you as an example, you don't want to believe the Kremlin could be behind it, even if they have done several times the same thing and have always gotten away with it.



posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 07:11 AM
link   

Originally posted by Regenmacher
...........
Why not is because revenge is hardly a Kremlin motive in killing a low level goon who already spilled his guts of 10 year old info, especially during a time of key trade talks. Litvinenko became expendable since he has largely been exhausted himself of useful information, and thus he has become more useful as dead leverage.
...........


And could you tell us how do you know that "he became expendable since his useful information has become exhausted"?

Did you know what this man had to say?...

How do you know there was nothing more he could say?...

The meeting he was poisoned at happened as he was eating with an Italian KGB expert. I guess they were going to talk about nothing in particular...

Do you know for certain that Litvinenko didn't have any contacts inside the KGB or the Russian government?...

One of the things the Russian government is doing now is resuming their sales of missiles to the Iranian government, could this man have known something about this or something else that he was going to tell this Italian KGB expert?

We might never know now.

[edit on 25-11-2006 by Muaddib]



posted on Nov, 25 2006 @ 07:14 AM
link   

Originally posted by Regenmacher

Comparing incompetent apples to apples would mean showing a botched US assassination attempt of a federal agent using a radioactive substance.


Now that is your opinion and nothing more...the fact remains that the KGB has been incompetent quite a few times and have given the most stupid Alibi for some of the things their government has done...including in other assassinations conducted not too long ago.

[edit on 25-11-2006 by Muaddib]



posted on Nov, 29 2006 @ 11:11 PM
link   
Maybe this was not an assassination. Maybe 'someone' was smuggling
neutron initiators (detonators). THAT is what Polo-210 is used for; there
is more to this story than meets the eye, and it is certainly a wake-up
call.



posted on Nov, 30 2006 @ 01:02 AM
link   
As a method of assassination, it's very public and blatant. Either Putin is sending a message of ruthlessness, or someone is trying to frame him. I think, given that polonium isn't exactly something you pick up over a pharmacy counter, I'm leaning towards it being Putin.

Regenmacher - thanks for posting the Times article... all press coverage is of interest... but, jeez, who wrote this thing, an eleven-year-old?


The theory: Litvinenko’s former colleagues in the Federal Security Services (FSB) wanted to avenge his betrayal of the service. Acting on their own — but in the belief that they were helping the Russian President — they arranged the assassination using a special poison developed in a top secret laboratory.


A special poison? A top secret laboratory? "No, Mister Bond... I expect you to die..." Dear oh dear. I know that this article will have been drummed up at short notice on a demand from the editor, but...please.

And a short digression just for Muaddib: it is extremely well-established that the CIA has tried to kill Castro many, many times. The fact that you can even think of denying this, and that you should claim that simply being a Cuban exile somehow makes you privy to special knowledges about this, is ridiculous.

638 ways to kill Castro

Oh, wait, you won't like that one. You will immediately dismiss it because of the involvment of Castro's ex head of security. He must be a liar in Muaddib's world, despite the corroborative testimony and evidence. You'll prefer this one from Globalsecurity although it does, unfortunately, suggest that there were indeed attempts by the US to assassinate Castro. However it says they stopped in 1963.

This source is a decent and scholarly attempt to pull the threads together, and it gives some corroboration to what otherwise would be dismissed as partial testimony by Castro's security man, who is, after all, just a liar out to make money in Muaddib's world.

The poisoned cigars gag we can substantiate:


Feb 13, 61 - CIA 's Technical Services Division records indicate that a box of Castro 's favorite cigars treated with lethal poison were delivered to an unidentified asset. The records do not disclose whether an attempt was made to pass the cigars to Castro. (Fonzi chronology p 415)


And you'll be reassured to note that the source corroborates Globalsecurity's assertion that assassination attempts stopped in 1963. Well, actually, it just stops there, which is not quite the same thing, because the focus is on links between anti-Castro Cubans and the Kennedy hit.

Anyway, I think that we can now put to rest Muaddib's inaccurate claim:


Grimreaper, i think you need to do some serious research before you make such claims, because first of all if any Cuban in the island tried to kill castro, and the list is very long, the Cuban regime would claim "it was done by the evil Capitalists of the U.S."...


Of course, you still won't be convinced, because you said this:


You think you have the facts because you read a book or a website?... Books, and websites don't always tell the facts or the truth, i can show you 20 different books, and websites all with different "facts", yet the "real truth and facts" might be quite the oposite of what these sites and books claim.


CIA documents admitting they tried to off Fidel won't mean anything to you then, obviously.

It's funny how, if you substitute the word "Washington" for "the Kremlin", this sentence clearly applies to you, even though it's your post from earlier in this thread:


Look at you as an example, you don't want to believe the Kremlin could be behind it, even if they have done several times the same thing and have always gotten away with it.


Sorry to get off topic folks, but it had to be said



posted on Nov, 30 2006 @ 05:54 PM
link   
It looks like the FBI is getting involved now.

Link



posted on Nov, 30 2006 @ 06:26 PM
link   

Originally posted by danwild6
It looks like the FBI is getting involved now.

Link



Yes, it appears that Britain has requested help from the U.S. FBI to investigate this. Also, the number of places believed to contaminated with polonium is now at least a dozen.



posted on Nov, 30 2006 @ 08:52 PM
link   
rich23, apparently you have some kind of twisted infatuation with me for some reason, which i really don't care about.....

But this thread is not about castro, nor me.....so could you "stay on topic"?......

[edit on 30-11-2006 by Muaddib]



posted on Dec, 1 2006 @ 04:59 AM
link   

Originally posted by Muaddib
rich23, apparently you have some kind of twisted infatuation with me for some reason, which i really don't care about.....


Infatuation is hardly the word. Your style of debate is known to me from previous encounters. You tried to deny that the US made assassination attempts against Castro. I thought I'd correct you on this. As you had already unsuccessfully tried to patronise a previous poster, I thought I'd do my best to give you all the sources you need to correct your misapprehensions on this matter.


But this thread is not about castro, nor me.....so could you "stay on topic"?......


That's a good one, coming from someone utterly unafraid to hijack threads when it suits them... I'll take that as an admission that you were wrong.

Anyway, on to the topic, now we've cleared that one up!

How about this guy?


Mr Gaidar was the architect of Russia's unpopular tough market reforms in the early 1990s and, although he is now far removed from frontline politics, he has regularly spoken out critically about the direction in which Russia is going.

Anatoly Chubais, chief executive of the electricity giant UES, a man who has also survived an attempt on his life, said that he was convinced that Mr Gaidar had been poisoned.

He said he saw a connection with the death of Mr Litvinenko and the murder of the investigative journalist Anna Politkovskaya, who was another fierce Kremlin critic, in October.

"Yegor Gaidar was on the verge of death on 24 November," said Mr Chubais. "The deadly triangle - Politkovskaya, Litvinenko and Gaidar - would have been very desirable for some people who are seeking an unconstitutional and forceful change of power in Russia."

He made it clear, however, that he did not think the Russian authorities were involved in Mr Gaidar's poisoning.

Mr Putin has already phoned Mr Gaidar to wish him a speedy recovery.


That's a conversation I'd like to have heard. If I could speak Russian, that is.

Russia lays Chubais attack charge


Russian prosecutors have charged a retired army colonel with trying to kill Anatoly Chubais - the head of the state-controlled electricity monopoly.

Colonel Vladimir Kvachkov, a former member of the main intelligence directorate, was also charged with illegal possession of weapons.

A lawyer for the explosives expert and Soviet war veteran said he was accused of attempted murder, reports Itar-Tass.

Mr Chubais was unhurt in the attack on his motorcade in Moscow on 17 March.(2005)

Gunmen opened fire and also detonated an explosive device in the ambush.



posted on Dec, 1 2006 @ 09:51 AM
link   
Well it looks now that Mr. Litvinenko was poisoned while dining with his Italian contact who now has tested positive for exposure to Polonium-210.

BBC Link

So far he hasn't shown symptoms possibly indicating that he didn't receive a high dose of the element. He claims that he was meeting with Mr. Litvinenko to discuss a hit list that he had come across. Both he and Mr. Litvinenko were named on the list. Just a thought but couldn't the conspirators have made this list then arranged to fall into the hands of Mr. Scaramella knowing he'd contact Mr. Litvinenko thus leading them right to him. The facts seem to indicate they were poisoned at the restaurant that they met at.




top topics



 
3
<< 1    3  4 >>

log in

join