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Why People That Have Opinions Are Ignorant. Deny Ignorance? Then, What is an opinion? Prejudice!

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posted on Nov, 18 2006 @ 08:54 PM
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i confess i gave this thread a contraversial title to get you to come in and read some thoughts, and hopefully share your thoughts. Thanks in advance for getting past the title!

Have you ever been asked:
"What makes you think what you say is the truth, and not just your opinion?"

one possible response could be:
"What is the process that results in the opinions one has? If you can answer this question, it will permit me to answer your question. Ironically though, if you already had the answer to this question, then perhaps you would not have to ask me: "What makes you think what you say is the truth, and not just your opinion?""

Why is this thread in Skunkworks?



This is a new initiative kicked off by this Skunk Works forum to have a dedicated place for ATS members to engage in speculative conspiracy theory discussions of all topics, angles, and targets. Our regular ATS forums have long since evolved into excellent zones of critical thinking and analysis that often either reveal or discredit many conspiracy theories. This attribute of ATS is certainly an important factor of our growth as we're the largest "alternative topic" discussion board by a major factor.

However, the skeptical and often intense nature of our regular forums can often be an intimidating environment for members with conspiracy theories based on more loosely connected tidbits of information (or even pure speculation) than is typically expected of posts in our main forums. Skeptical analysis and fact checking is certainly a cornerstone in the art of "Denying Ignorance", however, as the wonderful Mr. Einstein once said, "Imagination is more important than knowledge." The true denial of ignorance must also include and often embrace even the most fanciful exaggerations of possibilities in order to understand and explore the upper limits of what might be possible.


So, let's ask ourselves:
1) What is an opinion?
2) What is the process in which opinions are formed?
3) Are opinions more helpful or more detrimental in our quest to deny ignorance?


If someone can think of any other questions to pose to the members considering "opinions", please share.

Here are some answers i believe do parallel the truth, but are not the whole answers in their entirety. other contributors to this thread will offer more input, of that we can be sure.

1) What is an opinion?
-- i say an "opinion" is a nice word meaning the same as "prejudice", since both mean the same thing essentially: to pre-judge based upon previously acquired knowledge.

2) What is the process in which "opinions" are formed?
-- please follow along with my train of thought on this one, as i believe it is to your benefit, as well as all ATS memebers, as well.

Opinion = first accepted truths + "law of association".

what i am trying to convey by the term "law of association" is that our minds work much the same way. We can not accept a newly learned concept or idea unless we can attach it to pre-existing concepts of ideas that we have already accepted as truth, or plausibility. A prime example of this is the fact that on the first day of kindergarden you did not start by learning multiplication or algebra. First you had to learn to count and accept numbers as real. And would you have truly been able to comprehend the concept of "5" without first accepting that 1, 2, 3, and 4 were in fact real?

So, where does an opinion begin from? Where does a personality start?

It begins with the first accepted truths. And your first accepted truth at the cellular level was:
"Self Pre-Serve", aka "self before i serve".

What does your instinct mean?
Self = Me
Pre = Before
Serve = Help, Assist, Aide, Share, Heal, Teach, etc....

And, the first by-product of the above primary genetic command is: FEAR. Fear is the tool necessary for one to identify what has the potential to harm them or harm that which they want/need/love.

So, essentially it seems that an opinion is:
1)"I am ME before i serve, help, assist, aide, share with, heal, or teach anyone or anything" + 2) FEAR + 3) Whatever truths can comply and attach to the previous 2.


Where does experience factor in?
Simply stated, experience is not a factor in forming an opinion.

Why?

Glad you asked.

What is experience?
experience is the accumilation of sensory input provided by the senses and delivered to the brain.

But, all sensory input first gets delivered to the subconscious mind, not the conscious portion which is where the personality and the opinion reside, and from where they dictate your mind's policies.

The conscious portion of the mind generally produces 2,000 impulses of electricity between the synapses per second. This is what conscious thoughts are consisted of.

The subconscious portion of the mind generally produces 400,000,000,000 impulses of electricity between the synapses per second. This is what subconscious thoughts are consisted of.

So, if experience is the accumilation of sensory input from the senses, and all sensory input first gets delivered to the subconscious mind, and the conscious mind can only accept truths that are compliant with the truths of one's opinion, then essentially what i am trying to say is this:

conscious mind = 2,000 bits of information being integrated per second.
subconscious = 400,000,000,000 bits of information being integrated per second.

here is the ratio of conscious to subconscious:
conscious experience = 0.000000002%
subconscious experience = 99.999999997%

so, since ALL sensor input first gets delivered to the 99.999999997% of the mind that people are not consciously aware of, their opinion is relatively 0.000000002% of their total experiences.

Summary Points:

1) An "opinion" is a nice word meaning the same as "prejudice", since both mean the same thing essentially: to pre-judge based upon previously acquired knowledge.

2) Opinion = first accepted truths + "law of association".

3) So, essentially it seems that an opinion is:
*1 "I am ME before i serve, help, assist, aide, share with, heal, or teach anyone or anything" + *2 FEAR + *3 Whatever truths can comply and attach to the previous 2.

4) Essentially people rely upon 0.000000002% of their experiences coupled with "i am ME before i serve, help, assist, aide, share with, heal, or teach anyone or anything" + Fear + Through the Law Of Association whatever truths can be easily integrated with the previous 3 parts of the formula (conscious minds thoughts, instinct of self pre-serve, the byproduct of instinct: fear). While ignoring 99.999999997% of their own brain, as well as at least 99.999999997% of their own experiences (as they are not experiencing them consciously).

Of course, this is merely my stupid opinion, and i don't know if i can trust my opinion.

So, if you are game, i'm interested in hearing what is your opinion on what an opinion is? Please feel free to answer any or all of the following questions. Your contributions are always welcome, even if you don't agree with my opinion. Beleive me, my feelings are not hurt, i assure you.

1) So, what is the magic formula that supplies you with your opinion?

2) What is an opinion?

3) What is the process in which opinions are formed?

4) Are opinions more helpful or more detrimental in our quest to deny ignorance?


I whole heartedly thank you in advance for your contributions. I know this could be a very touchy subject, considering we are attempting to dissect not only what opinions are, but also what forms personalities and character. Be gentle, and remember it may not be too polite to dissect one's mind while they are still using it. So, i'll try my best to not be harsh or be-littling, and request that all contributors please do the same.

i don't expect everyone to believe or subscribe to all the concepts i presented here, but just offer your thoughts about them.

thanks,
john

[edit on 18-11-2006 by Esoteric Teacher]



Ram

posted on Nov, 19 2006 @ 05:36 AM
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An opinion is in my world is an opinion - that is my opinion.


I believe it's a meaning of some sort. Or originate from a meaning - Maybe from a subject that makes sense to me.

Maybe - Their are two kinds of opinions in this place - The publich broad meaning and opinions - and then there is this self opinion.

To make things make sense - we have an opinion about it.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Often - or if i start talking about stuff people don't understand - Or have never heard about. What is that then?

Take the "conspiracy opinion". It make sense to some - and some not. Or is it a choice we make - not to know things like that - cause it is against accepted opinion.

I think an opinion is a formulated statement. That for some reason has been inside the human mind - and has become formulated and understood (it appears).

This i think is a fun thread - Cause I get lost in the progress of finding awnsers.
lol*


Ram

posted on Nov, 19 2006 @ 07:42 AM
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But i will give you an opinion. So we can see the beginning and birth of an opinion.

Here is my "opinion about being a biker on the road" I call it.
A bike is in my opinion a tool...A tool first of all for transport. Transport of a human being - from Point A to Point B.

In my opinion - A bike is a sculpture in a sence it was designed by some kinda artist i guess. An artist and a blacksmith i presume - to my knowlegde of making metals and so forth.

I could make it a very very long speech full of opinions about being a hardcore bike on the roads - In Rain and winds that follow in it's everyday event. Nature is all around you. And you just want more of it.

1
Bikes became fun new tool for the human race some time ago. You all remember those old Bikes that only had one wheel? Big Huge bike you would risk injury if you sat on it and tilted - OMG looong way down dude
. Im not gonna find a picture for you - It would only interupt this little speech. LOL*



try this opinion.
2
Drive 70 kilometers everyday for an entire year - and you might learn what it feels like being Lance Armstrong...
What a passionate personality do we need to be and accept the pain it takes to drive 70 kilometers - and for some weeks 130 kilometers every second day - That takes time to be able to drive 130 kilometers every second day.

Thats the opinion about being a biker In very short describtion.

Which opinion of those two opinions was the absolut strongest opinion?


[edit on 19-11-2006 by Ram]


Ram

posted on Nov, 19 2006 @ 07:50 AM
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Deep down inside all of us - we are teachers.

Thats it LOOOL*



posted on Nov, 19 2006 @ 08:22 AM
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Originally posted by Ram
Deep down inside all of us - we are teachers.

Thats it LOOOL*


true. and we are also all students, too.

thanks for sharing Ram. i'll gove some thought to what you have said, and be back on ATS tomorrow.
thanks again,
john



posted on Nov, 19 2006 @ 10:28 AM
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I don't believe an opinion is a prejudice. Nor do I believe it is a sign of ignorance. And lastly, I do not believe either ego or fear has to be involved in forming an opinion. I see an opinion as the first step in the logical process. It's the fetal form of a deduction, or a hypothesis, or a working theory. It's what must take place in order to turn data into an idea. To have an opinion does not bar one from remaining open-minded (in fact it is the more mature steps of the logic process that can tend to start closing the mind - i.e. marrying one's theory), but an opinion is a voicing of one's inferring of the data.

If we don't formulate an opinion on a set of data, we'll all be walking around with a bunch of data that may or may not be connected and our knowledge won't increase from the data. There is no need for data if one isn't willing to at least take the first logic step and form an opinion. That doesn't mean the logic process is done, it means the logic process has been initiated.

Ignorance comes in when some one forms an opinion and THINKS the logic process is done....i.e. I infer there for it is. That's ignorance. But to offer your opinion on data is by no means ignorant - it is opening your inference up to debate.

P.S. And my opinion is this is a very interesting topic and I look forward to keeping up with it. Thank you for starting this discussion.

[edit on 11-19-2006 by Valhall]


Ram

posted on Nov, 19 2006 @ 11:43 PM
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Maybe - Opinion could also be a small part of a goal we have in life - if such exist.

Being an Arcitect - You must have some sort of knowlegde. Of everything.

Oh and - Being a policeman - you must also have some sort of knowlegde of everything you stand for , as a policeman.
Or a person who works in wall-mart LOL* must also have an opinion about almost everything.

Knowlegde can be a pretty scary thing.
If we knew everything we would not ask the questions that it will end up with the opinion .
- The power of the opinion

Again - There is somthing weirdish aura with the opinions category.
Some seems stronger than other opinions to us..And some seems to be so strong opinions That it rises questions inside each and every one of us - based on - yeah here it comes again "Fact's" with an "S" - And in some cases - the word "opinion" often changes to the word "Fact"

And somtimes fact's are the result of opinions and Fact's together.
two towers - do I need say more?

non-fiction. Is a class for itself.

Noone asked me to say or write anything - Thats opinion right now..LOL*

Actually you would think about it, and then we could hear your opinion Esoteric Teacher.

edit:LOL*


[edit on 19-11-2006 by Ram]
I love editing my writing - I think writing is an artform.

[edit on 19-11-2006 by Ram]



posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 02:20 PM
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Originally posted by Valhall
I don't believe an opinion is a prejudice. Nor do I believe it is a sign of ignorance. And lastly, I do not believe either ego or fear has to be involved in forming an opinion. I see an opinion as the first step in the logical process.


But, what you consider "logic" is still confined to the limitations of your genetics and thought processes. So, logically, unless you have "defragged" your mind at the genetic level, you have not made one purely logical observation, nor one logical choice, nor have you ever percieved consciously one logical experience.

i will share an analogy i like:

Remember the cartoons (like the Flinstones) as well as many other tv programs that showed characters with a angel on one shoulder, and the devil on the other shoulder, both trying to influence the decision making of the character who's shoulders they were both on?

now, what did they represent?
what do you think the angel represents, and what do you think the devil represents?

i think sometimes the angel represented logic, sometimes love, and sometimes fear. But, essentially i think the angel was depicting fear. i say fear because it seemed it was always warning of negative consequences, or telling what negatives consequences could exist. which to me is a representative symbol of what fear tells us, as well.

i think the devil is essentially the "what can this do for me, how can i benefit". Which is indicative of what the instinct of "self pre-serve" would say if it were a living entity.

so, i see how many people do this still, in every action, and in every behavior, because these two characters pretty much define their intentionality. what is next for them is: "How can this harm me and/or the things i love, and what are the possible consequences?" and/or "How can this benefit me and/or the things i love, and what potential rewards are in it for me?"

most people when making a decision automatically see only two options to ask:
1) "How can this harm me and/or the things i love, and what are the possible consequences?"
2) "How can this benefit me and/or the things i love, and what potential rewards are in it for me?"



where does this judgment come from?


do to the dna of every cell that comprises every human, judgment of the conscious mind is constrained by the subconscious mind which makes behavioral tendencies become automatic responses. so every observation of every aspect of your conscious experience is only what your subconsious mind percieves, which only asks two relative questions, which is all the dna of every cell requires:

1) "How can this harm me and/or the things i love, and what are the possible consequences?"
2) "How can this benefit me and/or the things i love, and what potential rewards are in it for me?"

i believe the instincts that we are born with, and the fear that is the byproduct of the instinct. But, perhaps, the truth is not answered by either of those questions. so accustomed to the automatic thought processes we learned before we were literate, or even potty trained, that perhaps we don't always make the conscious decision to totally disregard both the angel and the devil and remember we have a much bigger mind sitting between the two of them. i think these "scales/balances" within our mind do not always serve us to provide us with the truth, but rather sometimes prevent us from seeing it all together.




It's the fetal form of a deduction, or a hypothesis, or a working theory. It's what must take place in order to turn data into an idea.


but the only data that is permitted to be turned into a conscious idea is the data that is compliant with "i am self before anything or anyone". And the law of association dictates our mind only consciously records and consciously retrieves what data is compliant with "self pre-serve".



To have an opinion does not bar one from remaining open-minded (in fact it is the more mature steps of the logic process that can tend to start closing the mind - i.e. marrying one's theory), but an opinion is a voicing of one's inferring of the data.


But what if the inferring data is interfearing data? What if you simply have no basis within your mind to compare and hold up certain data too? The way the brain works is that you will not be consciously aware of what data is non-compliant with the objections your conscious mind (ego) creates. so, essentially it is 0.000000002% of your mind that is not permitting you to know 99.999999997% of the rest of the data.



There is no need for data if one isn't willing to at least take the first logic step and form an opinion. That doesn't mean the logic process is done, it means the logic process has been initiated.


but the initiation of peoples' logic started at "Self before is serve (anything or anyone)". And, logically, they have never journeyed within to re-write that initiator. so, their logic is still flawed as they do not have controll over their senses, they do not have control over their own data, nor have they ever had control over the overwhelming majority of their own thoughts. So, logically they do not know what logic is. Their first logic was the first cell of their being. what was the recorded information of your first cell that all other incoming information had to attach to?



Ignorance comes in when some one forms an opinion and THINKS the logic process is done....i.e. I infer there for it is. That's ignorance. But to offer your opinion on data is by no means ignorant - it is opening your inference up to debate.


I'll give this some more thought, and get back to an appropriate response.



P.S. And my opinion is this is a very interesting topic and I look forward to keeping up with it. Thank you for starting this discussion.


Valhall,
One thing i love most about your posts is you are one personality here on my favorite sight that makes (requires) me to think. I hope you do not take any of my post as negative, nor personal attacks on your beliefs, because it is most assuredly not attended that way. I infinatley respect your opinion, just trying to exchange ideas and words to determine what an opinion is.

Thanks for contributing some excellent thoughts,
john



posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 02:45 PM
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Opinion is truth or your own individual version of it which is confusing even more so the bigger the subject
what is 2+2=
You know what it equals so there must be a 99.999 % agreement on that from people as an opinon.

2x2= symbol is different but 99.99% of people would agree but maybe a few may read it as a + and get it wrong.

Now 2383748378790238923 X 37468658457437593849=
DO IT IN YOUR HEAD IN 5 SECONDS.
Now your opinion is different to everyone elses as less chance of the calculation being the same even if its wrong.

So opinions are down to the mind processing information that has been input or self taught and you add everything up mentally to give your own opinion or right anwer. But the bigger the number the less we are likely to compute the same but two minds can help and that creats relasionship or conflic.



posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 05:31 PM
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On this thread authored by GrimReaper797 there are some interesting concepts being discussed that i believe parallel the ideas being discussed here:

www.belowtopsecret.com...

Post from above thread concerning "LOVE". my input is in italics to make the conversation more easily decernable:



Originally posted by grimreaper797

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
The opposite of what my dna says to do.
So then i re-program my dna.
then i see that the truth either was or was not:
"what will i do next".


What is worth doing to you? Questioning always has an end, it does not last forever. Eventually there wont be any more questions to ask (other then the one Ive given).


But i honestly feel if you knew this was the last question that "TRUTH" could ask, then certainly you would have knowledge of every other question, and every answer to every question ever percieved.

So, i feel unless you have all other questions formulated, and all possible answers to all questions that do, have, or ever will exist, then your "ultimate question" is percievably nothing short of a cop-out, and a reason not to ask or pursue the answers to any more questions.


"What do i attempt to do next?"

i just can't percieve how this question alone will help take humanity beyond what is known into the unknown. The only way we go from what is known, and grow in wisdom, is to formulate and ask the questions no one else has thought to ask, and logically pursue the true answers that the question can plausibly provide.



Whats a life of questioning worth?


life itself. immortality.



If there are no more questions to you cease to have a reason to exist?


Who has the experience among us to honestly compare all they know of in their minds and provide the answer? Who on earth has asked all the questions?



What is something that last forever, and there is no end to? Something worth living for? Well for me its love.


there is an emotion that both came before love, and comes after love no longer exists. "TRUTH" can be an emotion, but not one you have experienced if you still believe that "LOVE" is the end all be all.



Dont misinterpret what I mean by love or assume. Think about it, and make sure you are sure that you are understanding what love truely is.


Love is many things to many souls. Love is defined by the observer who quantifies their love by what it is they choose to love. the definition of love is in the eye of the beholder who observes love only by the confines of what they love. so, if love is what they love, they still do not value the truth above all else, they love something other than the truth. And what love is to them in the confines of their mind is also what love is confined to in how their mind interprets reality and experience. So, if they do not love the truth, then the truth is not how their mind interprets reality, nor does the truth exist in their perception of their own experiences.

Love is in the eye of the beholder. Each observer's personal loves determines what love is to each observer.

these are my immediate thoughts concerning what love is. But, love can be more than what love is, if one has more reverence for the truth, than what they do for what it is they love.

as always GrimmReaper797, you are making me think.
Thanks,
john



Ram

posted on Nov, 21 2006 @ 10:04 PM
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The opinion about love is strange - that is true.

Where does love come from - and why does it exist?
How many shapes of love does exist.

As you said - In the eye of the beholder.

Amazing.

So what about that odd feeling of hate?
Is hate also based on Prejudice opinions?

Is Hate a form of shield against - a threat - To Love?



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 11:41 AM
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Originally posted by Ram

So what about that odd feeling of hate?
Is hate also based on Prejudice opinions?

Is Hate a form of shield against - a threat - To Love?


you asked:
"is hate a form of shield against - a threat - to love?"

In many people is say yes, but inadvertantly, i believe.

Perhaps the first observer (your first cell) looked outwards for definition just as you have. always looking outward? then perhaps your fist cell knowing only:
"i am" was observing the truth, and looked outwards for the truth. And the truth it found is that it was alone. So, the second cell of your being was programmed to know "alone". and then the first cell looked outward and could acknowledge another, and asked it's creation "what am i?". Now what does the second cell know? So, logcially the response was: "you are alone". Now: "I am alone", was probably sad about that, so perhaps the third cell was "sad", and then "i am alone" looked outwards to the third for definition and asked: "What is i am alone?". And perhaps then the third cell responded with all that it knew: "you are alone and sad".
and perhaps when the first cell found or created "love" as a concept that can acknowledge and recognize and further comprehend the truth, then perhaps, just perhaps the first cell saw it was never alone or sad. but perhaps it did see that it was "afraid" of being alone and sad. just perhaps, but of course this could be a perception or view from a faulty opinion.

so is "hate" a protector of "love"?

or is "hate" a protector of "fear", and "fear" is merely an "alarm mechanism" that identifies what threatens "love".

how do we justify hating someone?

can we justify hating someone without first fearing losing something we love?



posted on Nov, 22 2006 @ 11:57 AM
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An opinion is a belief held about a thing possibly before comprehension of that thing.

perceive, discern, distinguish, detect -> regard, consider, deliberate, judge -> judgment, opinion -> comprehend

Comprehension is the goal. It is a complete mental picture that allows you to predict where a thing will be. You can then maneuver yourself into position for the capture.

That's my opinion.

Definitions:




perceive (per-sêv´) verb, transitive
perceived, perceiving, perceives
1. To become aware of directly through any of the senses, especially sight or hearing.
2. To achieve understanding of; apprehend. See synonyms at see1.

[Middle English perceiven, from Old French perceivre, from Latin percipere : per-, per- + capere, to seize.]




per-3. Important derivatives are: fear, peril, experience, experiment, expert, pirate, and empiric.
To try, risk (< "to lead over," "press forward"). A verbal root belonging to the group of per1. 1. Lengthened grade *pêr-. FEAR, from Old English fær, danger, sudden calamity, from Germanic *fêraz, danger. 2. Suffixed form *perì-tlo-. (PARLOUS), PERIL, from Latin perìclum, perìculum, trial, danger. 3. Suffixed form *per-yo-. EXPERIENCE, EXPERIMENT, EXPERT, from Latin experìrì, to try, learn by trying (ex-, from; see eghs). 4. Suffixed form *per-ya. PIRATE; EMPIRIC, from Greek peira, trial, attempt. [Pokorny 2. E. per 818.]







comprehend (kòm´prî-hènd´) verb, transitive
comprehended, comprehending, comprehends
1. To take in the meaning, nature, or importance of; grasp. See synonyms at apprehend.
2. To take in as a part; include. See synonyms at include.

[Middle English comprehenden, from Latin comprehendere : com-, com- + prehendere, to grasp.]

*My interpretation; together (mentally) + before + grasp, catch



posted on Nov, 23 2006 @ 12:47 AM
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Interesting topic ET.

[edit]1) What is an opinion?
-- i say an "opinion" is a nice word meaning the same as "prejudice", since both mean the same thing essentially: to pre-judge based upon previously acquired knowledge.[/edit]

I have to disagree with your definition here. To prejudge is to form an opinion without first hand knowledge. Typically to form an opionion based on second hand 'info'. If you have first hand knowledge of a matter, how can you be said to have prejudged?

[edit]2) What is the process in which "opinions" are formed?
-- please follow along with my train of thought on this one, as i believe it is to your benefit, as well as all ATS memebers, as well.

Opinion = first accepted truths + "law of association".

what i am trying to convey by the term "law of association" is that our minds work much the same way. We can not accept a newly learned concept or idea unless we can attach it to pre-existing concepts of ideas that we have already accepted as truth, or plausibility. A prime example of this is the fact that on the first day of kindergarden you did not start by learning multiplication or algebra. First you had to learn to count and accept numbers as real. And would you have truly been able to comprehend the concept of "5" without first accepting that 1, 2, 3, and 4 were in fact real?[/edit]

While I agree with your assertion that people tend to associate any new information with that which they currently accept as truth, I believe that you are reducing the process down to a level that precludes peoples ability to reject prior beliefs. I think that there are many people that have a very hard time changing long held beliefs, probably the vast majority, but the ability to do so exists in all of us. It all depends on how much you love the truth, as opposed to your beliefs.

As to your assertions regarding the majority of human thought processes being part of the subconscience, I couldn't agree more, but I believe that you're missing an integral part of the human equation. The part of the human condition and human awareness that constitutes that 99.999% is human spirituality. It is the spiritual component that allows people to overcome the natural tendancy to cling to previous beliefs in the face of new information. It is the spiritual component, for good or bad, that leads people to either cling to selfish (fear) induced beliefs, or accept the truths that tend to make them physically vulnerable, and more concerned with others. This is how man is made in Gods image, and represents the trinity. Man is physical, psychological and spiritual.

Edit-
Well obviously I havn't figured out how to use mulitple quotes. Hope ya'll can figure out my intent.


[edit on 23-11-2006 by resistor]



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 08:47 PM
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Originally posted by resistor
Interesting topic ET.

[edit]1) What is an opinion?
-- i say an "opinion" is a nice word meaning the same as "prejudice", since both mean the same thing essentially: to pre-judge based upon previously acquired knowledge.[/edit]

I have to disagree with your definition here. To prejudge is to form an opinion without first hand knowledge.


without accessing incoming sensory information directly instead of the subconscious mind doing it before your conscious mind has access to it, you have never acquired first hand knowledge of anything. it is not you who have experienced anything first hand, it is the part of the mind you are not consciously aware of that has the first hand knowledge, not you.



Typically to form an opionion based on second hand 'info'. If you have first hand knowledge of a matter, how can you be said to have prejudged?


how can you have first hand knowledge of anything when you have absolutley no first hand knowledge of any sensory input, ever.

you have never had first hand knowledge of anything you have ever seen.
you have never had first hand knowledge of anything you have ever heard.
you have never had first hand knowledge of anything you have ever touched.
you have never had first hand knowledge of anything you have ever smelled.
you have never had first hand knowledge of anything you have ever tasted.

you have only had 0.000000002% of the second hand knowledge provided to you by your 99.999999997% of your mind you call your subconsious mind.



While I agree with your assertion that people tend to associate any new information with that which they currently accept as truth, I believe that you are reducing the process down to a level that precludes peoples ability to reject prior beliefs. I think that there are many people that have a very hard time changing long held beliefs, probably the vast majority, but the ability to do so exists in all of us. It all depends on how much you love the truth, as opposed to your beliefs.


i agree.



Edit-
Well obviously I havn't figured out how to use mulitple quotes. Hope ya'll can figure out my intent.


try typing in {quote} at the beginning and {/quote} at the end of the quote.

but, replace the { & } with: [ & ].

hope this helps, and i had to ask the same question myself about a year ago.



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 08:51 PM
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Have you guys noticed that Esoteric Teacher is posting his opinion as fact through-out this thread?

Maybe the original title was appropriate, huh?



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 08:57 PM
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Originally posted by Valhall
Have you guys noticed that Esoteric Teacher is posting his opinion as fact through-out this thread?

Maybe the original title was appropriate, huh?


google brain stuff. i suppose it may be opinion, but the opinion is the opinion of brainy doctors. am i a brainy doctor? nope. just regurgitating their opinion as best as i understood it.

so it seems Valhall is correct. it is opinion, from respected people, in my opinion, and the opinions that make those opinions of respected peoples "well to do".

but, i don't have a doctrine in any field, so i don't question them about their opinion.

Valhall, what is your doctrine degree in?



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 08:59 PM
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Originally posted by Valhall
Have you guys noticed that Esoteric Teacher is posting his opinion as fact through-out this thread?

Maybe the original title was appropriate, huh?


Actually I was going to ask Esoteric Teacher about that same fact Val.


I guess you noticed first, good catch.


So Esoteric how do I know that the analisis you have stated on this thread is nothing more than your . . .own . . .opinion


With all the biases that will come along with personal analisis of an opinion.



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 09:09 PM
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My doctrine degree is in discerning when some one is using opinion as fact - I got it from the school of hard knocks. I don't have anything other than that. My aero engineering degree has no worth here, but my third eye on what is opinion (learned or otherwise) is all I have to offer here.

It's my opinion that your opinions stated here are nothing but that...opinion. Therefore I stand by my statements (which are my opinion) that I do not believe it takes either ego or fear to form an opinion. And further to that, it is my opinion, that forming an opinion is in no way a sign of ignorance, but quite the contrary, the first step in the path to knowledge.

One is just a big ugly bag of mostly water otherwise.

P.S. You're not a big ugly bag of mostly water. I know that, because you have an opinion - voiced right here in this thread.


[edit on 11-24-2006 by Valhall]



posted on Nov, 24 2006 @ 09:12 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043

Originally posted by Valhall
Have you guys noticed that Esoteric Teacher is posting his opinion as fact through-out this thread?

Maybe the original title was appropriate, huh?


Actually I was going to ask Esoteric Teacher about that same fact Val.


I guess you noticed first, good catch.


So Esoteric how do I know that the analisis you have stated on this thread is nothing more than your . . .own . . .opinion



because the "opinion" regurgitated by me is based in the "opinions" of doctors and scientists all over the world.

so feel free to take your credentials to the doctors and scientists all over the world and confront their opinions with your opinion.


i'm just submitting to ATS members the same thing the top neuro-science fields have been saying for decades now. i sort of assumed is was common knowledge, but i guess not.





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