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Iraqi Sniper[Sensitive Pictures]

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posted on Nov, 19 2006 @ 02:56 AM
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and to see people praiseing this "juba" killers deeds
its horrible, but from me it gets the opposite reaction ... now i feel hatred for this sniper, i feel as if i wish to hurt him, to get back at him ...


Well, now you feel just a small part of what Iraqis feels every day of their lives. We occupy their country, and kill them on daily bases, so when Iraqis see this "JUBA" character, they feel proud.


are these feelings right?


They are natural, but never right.

The point is not be in such situations to begin with. The cycle of violence does not end.

Our media just doesn't show us the war like it did during Vietnam. Back then everyday networks showed pretty much raw footage from the front lines, body bags, all that crap.

Right here;

These videos are only a fraction of the reality in Iraq.

Actually CNN finally went on the "reality TV' band wagon, and put together a good piece called "CNN PRESENTS: COMBAT HOSPITAL, Real-life Drama inside Combat Hospital in Iraq."

Watch that one, and then tell us how it feels.

www.cnn.com...

Some more for you, CNN "Wounded Warriors".

My advice, forget about the war for now, and keep your nose in school.




posted on Nov, 19 2006 @ 02:59 AM
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One more thing;


see, i play alot of video games, Battlefield 2, Socom and being the sniper is my favorite guy ... so you take the guy easily when he dosn't know where you are .....
simple right


There is an old game called "OFP" Operation Flash Point. Try that one, the community is still strong, and all kinds of mods are still coming out.

If you did not care for the videos, try the game against other experienced players.

You'll be hunted just like our boys are in Iraq.



posted on Nov, 19 2006 @ 03:04 AM
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I wonder how many times in those videos this could've happened?



posted on Nov, 19 2006 @ 04:53 AM
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Lysergic -

I've not watched many of these videos, but since this thread began I have watched more... and I noticed that when someone stays down, the video holds on the victim: if people are still walking around (implying that body armour saved them), the "Juba" logo comes up pretty smartly to obscure the aftermath.

Iskander - great posts, again, and a masterly deconstruction of the BS about getting that rifle back.

One small point - you say in one of your posts that the ejection sound is always the same. Now I haven't seen all of your posted videos yet (they make for disturbing viewing) but in the ones I've seen, the ejection sound is, I think, overdubbed almost as a kind of punctuation mark, part of the soundtrack. I actually haven't heard any ejection sounds, yet, that sound as if they're part of the OST.

And jaguarmike - your point is taken, but I was specifically addressing ch1466, who seems to be something of a Nazi. If he's even handed, he'll address the point I raised. But he won't. I'm heartened to see he picked up a warning for the post I was replying to. I'd like him to try to debate the points he raised, but I don't think he can.



posted on Nov, 19 2006 @ 05:46 AM
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Originally posted by iskander
Here's why right here - www.youtube.com...

Even if it's a real engagement, and not morale lifting target practice for the camera, (pay attention to many clicks he was turning there) this is how snipers get killed real quick.

Blasting what 3 30 round mags from the same position is just like sprinting into your own grave. One shot, one kill.

I agree with you. I don't know the details about that vid. I was under the impression they were defending that particular building with VIPs in there. So their concern would not be concealment, they would just try to push trespassers away, in that case protesters with AKs waving flags or something to that effect according to what we hear in the video. However I agree that if an insurgent sniper showed up it seems those mercs would all be easy target up there.



posted on Nov, 19 2006 @ 07:19 AM
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Iskander - great posts, again, and a masterly deconstruction of the BS about getting that rifle back.


rich23, I know where your coming from, and I do understand, but you have to understand that even if the story is BS, it's simply needed by the troops.

Panic is the deadliest weapon there is, and if USMC has to put out BS to calm down the boys, so be it. That way they'll make less mistakes.


One small point - you say in one of your posts that the ejection sound is always the same. Now I haven't seen all of your posted videos yet (they make for disturbing viewing) but in the ones I've seen, the ejection sound is, I think, overdubbed almost as a kind of punctuation mark, part of the soundtrack. I actually haven't heard any ejection sounds, yet, that sound as if they're part of the OST.


I wouldn't say the sound is overdubbed. .308 and 54R are ripped out real fast, and are thrown out with a lot of speed on them, so a loud bounce is a given.


I was under the impression they were defending that particular building with VIPs in there.


ufia, not really. I sure wouldn't call engaging targets out to 800 meters a defensive posture, and reacquiring a target that far out after recovering from recoil takes MUCH longer then what that guy was displaying.

The field of view is just to narrow, and that is precisely why spotters have a wider field of view optics.


So their concern would not be concealment, they would just try to push trespassers away, in that case protesters with AKs waving flags or something to that effect according to what we hear in the video.


Targets 800 meters away are hardly trespassers. Setting up a fire support point 800 meters away from the action is unimaginable with out heavy mounted guns, and opening up on protesters is not war. Who knows what those boys were doing there we just don't know simply do to lack of information.

Here's what we do know.

Note that only two targets were visible through out the entire clip. One was a large city bus going from right to left, and the other was a black car going from left to right.

The rest was communicated by the shooter.

Seeing a green flag does not automatically make a Maddi flag by the way. The entire Islamic revolution is under a green flag.


However I agree that if an insurgent sniper showed up it seems those mercs would all be easy target up there.


Yep, and a pro would not only take one out easy, but would pin down the rest so they can be flushed out by regulars.



posted on Nov, 19 2006 @ 05:54 PM
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Originally posted by rich23
One small point - you say in one of your posts that the ejection sound is always the same. Now I haven't seen all of your posted videos yet (they make for disturbing viewing) but in the ones I've seen, the ejection sound is, I think, overdubbed almost as a kind of punctuation mark, part of the soundtrack. I actually haven't heard any ejection sounds, yet, that sound as if they're part of the OST.



I have to agree that the vids are likely edited for maximum effect and that the body count is likely inflated. This is propaganda at its best for sure.

Nobody in this thread yet has refuted by Israeli made gun mount camera accusation and I await somebody to do this.

In fact I highly doubt this is an Iraqi insurgency operation because it gives too many hints at how they operate and hands carte blanche ability of US forces to better secure themselves.

It seems a short term gain for a long term loss of advantage and I can't see any strategist okaying this.

But I can see a third party wanting the war to go on and always wanting to cause friction between both sides as we see here.



posted on Nov, 19 2006 @ 06:07 PM
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Nobody in this thread yet has refuted by Israeli made gun mount camera accusation and I await somebody to do this.


What's to refute? Any ape can mount a camcorder on an L bracket and bolt said L bracket to the stock of a rifle. I think any terrorist group with sufficient resources to build explosive devices has got the necessary technology to attach a handheld video recorder to a rifle.

Nevermind the fact that pinhole cameras are increasingly popular, and the quality has improved a lot in just the last half-decade. Those suckers are small enough to mount on a barrel to give line of sight footage.

Is the recoil what you're taking issue with? You can build a steady-cam on the cheap if it becomes necessary to shield the lens from vibrations.



I don't understand what makes you think that it's so hard to attach a camera to a gun?

Can you expand on that point a little, and help us to understand?



posted on Nov, 19 2006 @ 08:10 PM
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How EXACTLY do these "camera scopes" work? I mean jeez, if you look at it the guys so close he could spit on em, if it zooms in to a high extent then that would explain some, yet how far can these things zoom?

Heres something to think about: Look at where the snipers shoot the most (someone brought this up) and then think about it, they have CLEAR headshots yet they prefer to shoot a guys LEG or ARM? This is understandable on the grand scale yet you have videos of a sniper firing on a ity bitty group of people and they STILL shoot at the hands and legs. Then in another one they DO shoot at the head... Maybe they want them to live... who knows? Only the sniper.
Whats the exact name of these scopes anyway? The camera ones.



posted on Nov, 19 2006 @ 09:14 PM
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Originally posted by Vekar
Heres something to think about: Look at where the snipers shoot the most (someone brought this up) and then think about it, they have CLEAR headshots yet they prefer to shoot a guys LEG or ARM?


It may appear clear to you because the camera maybe zoomed to it's max but if the sniper is not skilled enough then he will not attempt a head shot. I've not seen any limb shots (as that is much harder than a head shot if the subject is moving) but I have seen body shots. Fortunately for us we have body armor that can stop those type of rounds.



posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 09:04 AM
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Since Iskander wants more info, before he wants to conclude anything as well as assume anything.


Heres more....





[edit on 20-11-2006 by deltaboy]


[edit: reduced image size]Mod Edit: Image Size – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 11/20/2006 by 12m8keall2c]



posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 09:46 AM
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Check this out, that guy in the video holding the bottle of water single-handedly created two new generations of terrorist snipers for years to come. We can all thank him when we see our troops getting sniped.

youtube.com...



posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 11:45 AM
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All I can say is.....wow!! Those are really hard to watch. The second to last shooting in the first video.......man, that dude had half his head takin' off. Dude's sitting there eating a Twinkie or something and then........GOODNIGHT!

What a mess this has turned out to be. I real feel for these soldiers. It's time to come home fellas.

Peace


[edit on 20-11-2006 by Dr Love]



posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 01:31 PM
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First of all i'm pissed, at seeing those videos. Second, it's all propoganda the terrorists put out that kind of video so the little wannabe terrorists (who we should be killing BEFORE they become terrorists) see it and think "wow we can beat americans" where as in reality they stand no chance. A common tactic of the terrorists, and guerrilas in general is hit and run which we've seen and it's pisses me off they talk about honor and dying for what they believe but then they fight like pansies. I read a book about Osama and at his training camps they do "offer" a sniper training class or whatever. I'll tell you those little turban-ites are inventive. I saw an article in Soldier of fortune about how they (terrorists) took a car and modified the bumper so it could be moved and they put a sniper in the trunk and then they would lower the bumper, shoot, pull the bumber back up and drive away. Instead of getting pissed at the sniper, we should get angry at our government because they set the "rules or engagment" which says unless a weapon is pointed at you, you can't do anything but sit and take heat. It's not President Bush getting out soldiers killed, it's the government with their rules on how wars should be fought. Osama, if you happened to read this, Allah says you suck.



posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 01:56 PM
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I can't figure out the hidden compartment pict. - sniper_takedown_5.jpg

The seat cover fabric show there is brown, while the seat cover is the sniper_takedown_3.jpg is gray.

Obviously not the same car.

Contents of the hidden compartment picture shows ammo on the right side. It's 7.62X54 Rimmed, as the 5-round Mosin stripper clips clearly shows, not FN "general purpose".

FMJ is an FMJ, I don't even know what "general purpose" is supposed to mean.

Mosin, SVD, PKM use the same 54R round, and not FN .308

The rifle shown in top left pict of sniper_takedown_3.jpg does seem to match the top pict from sniper_takedown_4.jpg. Note the heavy rust on the floorplate and trigger guard.

The scope on the pict is a $40 Tasco, so what happened to $2,500 Unertl 10x?

Sorry, I don't buy it.

Hidden compartment pict #5, absolutely.

Hidden compartment contents pict 6-1, absolutely.

Sniper takedown 3, no way.

Sniper takedown 4 shows a heavily worn out M40A1 with a rusty floor plate/trigger guard and a non standard 40 dollar Tasco cheapo instead of issue $2,500 Unertl 10x.

M40A1 uses a modified Winchester Model 70 floorplate instead of the stock aluminum, and a Remington trigger. Naturally aluminum does not rust, but USMC went for stronger steel, and precisely do to rusting floorplate are regularly refinished.

I'm guessing here, but judging but the camo scheme, it's sure looks like Nam era M40A1 that replaced the M700. Why would USMC snipers bring a Nam era rifle with a $40 scope to Iraq simply escapes me.

Why would Iraqis replace the excellent Unertl 10x with a Toys-R-Us Tasco is also puzzling, unless of course we are to believe that the scope was destroyed by the Hollywood style kill shot right through the lens.

I can even see a giant gap between the floorplate and the fiberglass - sniper_takedown_4.jpg

Look left of the trigger guard, the floor plate is not even seated properly.

That's a kind of a sled you give to a nub to crawl around with.

Don't think so guys, simply to many serious inconsistencies.



posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 03:08 PM
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Originally posted by iskander


The seat cover fabric show there is brown, while the seat cover is the sniper_takedown_3.jpg is gray.


Thats dry blood.



FMJ is an FMJ, I don't even know what "general purpose" is supposed to mean.


General Purpose Machine Gun. Bullets for it.



The scope on the pict is a $40 Tasco, so what happened to $2,500 Unertl 10x?


Possibly Broken and replaced by the enemy sniper.



I'm guessing here, but judging but the camo scheme, it's sure looks like Nam era M40A1 that replaced the M700. Why would USMC snipers bring a Nam era rifle with a $40 scope to Iraq simply escapes me.


Why do we use M-14s used in Vietnam, now being used in Iraq? Weird eh?


Why would Iraqis replace the excellent Unertl 10x with a Toys-R-Us Tasco is also puzzling, unless of course we are to believe that the scope was destroyed by the Hollywood style kill shot right through the lens.


Possibly taken and given to somebody else, sold it, broken it and replaced. Any possibilities. You were wrong in the first post about the scope so you can't just assume that it was the original scope you saw from a bad angle. As you say, it looked like the Schmidt & Bender PMII previously.



posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 04:08 PM
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Thats dry blood.


You're right. I took a closer look, and shadows do make it look like seat bottom is brown.


General Purpose Machine Gun. Bullets for it.


Sorry mate, Mosin/PKM/SVD 7.62R has nothing to do with NATO 7.62X51, loose or in a belt.

Unlike the dry blood&shadow confusion, Mosin stripper clips are clearly visible, and so are the rimmed cases of the 7.62X54R.


Why do we use M-14s used in Vietnam, now being used in Iraq? Weird eh?


You're saying that we use 40+ year old M-14s?

We both know that the age of the weapon is dictated by the ammount of its use. If it was properly stored any WWI rifle will function just as it was originally intended, what matters is the ammount of its previous use.

M14/21 are endeed used in Iraq, usually scoped, but I've never heard of anybody attempting to feed X54R into X51 rifle.


You were wrong in the first post about the scope so you can't just assume that it was the original scope you saw from a bad angle. As you say, it looked like the Schmidt & Bender PMII previously.


This is exactly what I said in the first post;

"Look at the scope. Even though it's a bad picture, it sure looks like the new Schmidt & Bender PMII 3-12x to me (1=1/4 moa) , which in 2006 replaced the Unertl 10x.

So unless an Iraqi sniper picked it up from one of our USMC snipers after putting him down, that rifle belonged to one of our own snipers."

And then this;


I won't say it's a certainty, but if there is a high rez pict, I'll make it a certainty in a few seconds.


Thank you for posting a better picture. Why not sooner? Sure would've saved all of us the trouble.

Never the less, so far we don't have a single clip with a bolt action rifle at work, and the ammo does not match.

You simply can't feed M40A1 with 54R, and then there are abnormalities with old camo pattern and a highly questionable floorplate rusting/seating.

Again, the picture is to low rez to tell for certain, but that's how it looks so far.

Got a better picture? Have to ask, so far you seem to bring them up as we go.



posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 05:06 PM
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Originally posted by iskander
Sorry mate, Mosin/PKM/SVD 7.62R has nothing to do with NATO 7.62X51, loose or in a belt.


Nor does the M-16 mag in the pic, but they keeping it for something. Could be the 7.62 x 54 as well, I can't tell since its slightly blurry but you may be right.


Unlike the dry blood&shadow confusion, Mosin stripper clips are clearly visible, and so are the rimmed cases of the 7.62X54R.


And the article it shows the Lt. Colonel holding the last round in the chamber


Darkhorse snipers have since removed the powder and primer from the last 7.62 mm round chambered in the recaptured rifle. They will mount it on a plaque and present it to the Magnificent Bastards’ snipers to honor their lost Marines.




You're saying that we use 40+ year old M-14s?

We both know that the age of the weapon is dictated by the ammount of its use. If it was properly stored any WWI rifle will function just as it was originally intended, what matters is the ammount of its previous use.

M14/21 are endeed used in Iraq, usually scoped, but I've never heard of anybody attempting to feed X54R into X51 rifle.


The M40a3 did not come into being until 2001. 2 years before the Iraq war. Not all Marines are equipped with the M40a3 immdiately since the introduction of the rifle. Insurgents are unpredictable and may kept all these rounds and weapons and other items.



Thank you for posting a better picture. Why not sooner? Sure would've saved all of us the trouble.

Never the less, so far we don't have a single clip with a bolt action rifle at work, and the ammo does not match.

You simply can't feed M40A1 with 54R, and then there are abnormalities with old camo pattern and a highly questionable floorplate rusting/seating.

Again, the picture is to low rez to tell for certain, but that's how it looks so far.

Got a better picture? Have to ask, so far you seem to bring them up as we go.


Not my fault, the pic was posted in response about the use of camera to debunk about insurgents using sniper rifle video camera.

[edit on 20-11-2006 by deltaboy]

[edit on 20-11-2006 by deltaboy]



posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 06:20 PM
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deltaboy, trust me, I'm well aware that it's a double edge sword. They lose some, we loose some.

I'm all for morale boosters, but in any case the rifle just doesn't fit in.

Ammo casings look discolored and corroded. Especially around the necks, which is a dead giveaway for old ammo.

The hand grenade is also covered in rust by the way.

7.62X54R balanced steel-core rounds for SVD are plentiful, so again I have to ask why would snipers use corroded, WWII-era ammo in Mosin strips?

Even if balanced rounds are not available, regular PKM belts are broken down for fresh X54Rs, not to mention complete impossibility of their use in .308 NATO weapons.

Hi-power fits right in, even though a single mag with it is empty.

220V plug on the camera ps/charger also fits.

A loaded M16 mag does not fit, a neither does the ribbed rubber buttstock pad. Could be from M4, looks a bit to wide for a T6, who knows, but since it's oval, it's definitely not from SVD or SKS.

Since the last time I only glanced at the "Hidden Compartment" pict and clearly mistook dry blood for a seat cover, this time I took a closer look.

I was dead on about the car being an Opel, early to mid 90s, so I'll look into the exact model and year.

What bothers me there is the twin piece armrest. It folds down into an armrest, so I'll try to find out if it also allows access into the truck, or if it was in fact modified to lock in place with those lugs.



posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 06:29 PM
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Even if its old iskander, that don't mean its useless to them. Hell, insurgents are using old artillery shells for IEDs. Maybe they find the ammo useful for this weapon or that weapon.



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