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Iraqi Sniper[Sensitive Pictures]

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posted on Nov, 18 2006 @ 10:56 AM
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Originally posted by rich23



Do you have a link for this? And can you prove that it's the same rifle, and not a plant? Because unless you can back this assertion up with some facts, I'm going with the guy who seems to know what he's talking about.



www.military.com...




Camp Habbaniyah, Iraq - Scout snipers from 3rd Battalion, 5th Marine Regiment killed an enemy sniper and recovered a Marine sniper rifle lost nearly two years ago during a mission near Habbaniyah June 16.

The rifle was the one formerly used by four Marines of 2nd Battalion, 4th Marine Regiment who were killed on a rooftop in Ramadi June 21, 2004.

Sniper Section Four was in a hide when the spotter observed a military-aged male inside a nearby parked car videotaping a passing patrol of amphibious assault vehicles. The Marines saw a rifle stock by the insurgent’s side.

“We were in the right place at the right time,” said Sgt. Kevin Homestead an infantryman from K Company serving as a spotter for the sniper team that day.



They pulled out the sniper rifle and immediately recognized that it was an M-40A1, the same used by the snipers of 2nd Battalion, 4th Marine Regiment in 2004.

The trunk of the car contained a pistol, a hand grenade, dozens of 7.62 mm rounds, multiple license plates and several camcorder tapes.

“When we saw the scope and stock, we knew what it was,” Homestead said.

The rifle was missing for nearly two years – almost to the day. Marines believed the insurgent they killed, or those closely associated with him, had it all along. It is unknown how many times it was used against U.S. and Iraqi forces.

“He was a very good sniper,” Homestead said. “But he got cocky and slipped up and it was our time to catch that.”

The weapon came full circle, having originally belonged to the Darkhorse battalion in Operation Iraqi Freedom I, who turned it over to the “Magnificent Bastards” of 2nd Battalion, 4th Marine Regiment. Coincidentally, a Darkhorse sniper killed the insurgent sniper, and a former Magnificent Bastard killed the spotter.

Darkhorse battalion had been dealing with sporadic sniper attacks since arriving in Iraq in January. Now, Marines have one less sniper to worry about.

“It’s very rewarding to take them out the way we did,” said Lt. Col. Patrick G. Looney, the battalion commander. “Doubly rewarding that it’s a 2/4 sniper rifle, even though it won’t bring back the four Marines who were killed that day.”


This will answer your question, as iskander has mentioned the insurgents took the rifle from the dead Marines, and they got it back.




posted on Nov, 18 2006 @ 12:31 PM
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ain't war hell.

I'm not going to get into the whole debate but thanks for posting those vids. That is war and everybody should see them.

The only problem I have is young men are dying and rich men are getting richer from it.
We're caught in a sea of blood and it's never going to end. Next Iran, then Syria, then North Korea.

We're screwed.



posted on Nov, 18 2006 @ 12:41 PM
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1. 'On Rules Of War'-

**HAGUE CONVENTIONS**

>>
Article 1
The laws, rights, and duties of war apply not only to armies, but also to militia and volunteer corps, fulfilling the following conditions:

To be commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;

To have a fixed distinctive emblem recognizable at a distance;

To carry arms openly; and

To conduct their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.

In countries where militia or volunteer corps constitute the army, or form part of it, they are included under the denomination "army."

Article 2
The population of a territory which has not been occupied who, on the enemy's approach, spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading troops without having time to organize themselves in accordance with Article 1, shall be regarded a belligerent, if they respect the laws and customs of war.

Article 3
The armed forces of the belligerent parties may consist of combatants and non-combatants. In case of capture by the enemy both have a right to be treated as prisoners of war.

...

Article 23
Besides the prohibitions provided by special Conventions, it is especially prohibited:--

To employ poison or poisoned arms;

To kill or wound treacherously individuals belonging to the hostile nation or army;

To kill or wound an enemy who, having laid down arms, or having no longer means of defence, has surrendered at discretion;

To declare that no quarter will be given;

To employ arms, projectiles, or material of a nature to cause superfluous injury;
>>

www.google.com...


So, you morons who think the Iraqi's are acting in accord with some 'code of ethics' or even /that there is no such thing/ as applies to assassins like Snipers of 'all flavors and all kinds' YOU ARE DEAD WRONG.

Specifically, if the present Iraqi government is recognized by the UN and the U.S. is recognized as being in Iraq at the wishes and behest of the Iraqi government, every sniper caught attacking U.S. forces can be treated as an illegal combatant, no better than a common murdering criminal. If they are not in uniform and/or wearing a distinctive badge, then put some papers on them 'denoting patrol X at Y hours' and _hang them_ as spies.

Similarly, since the very act of sniping against an armored target REQUIRES the use of ammunition and/or tactics which equate to 'no quarter given and excessive damage imparted'; you can also _hang them_ for battlefield crimes.

2. Technicalities.
Junior seems to have a favorite target aspect and quarter in a lot of cases. This should have been picked up on. Grouped individuals skylining themselves without a wall to their backs are idiots. Not all of the vehicles look to be equipped with Acoustic Sniper Finder gear. They should be. They should also have masted or multiaperture cameras which slew-to-bearing on the target azimuth of an acoustic or MMW sniperfinder. Ideally, at least one of these cameras should have a spinning-mirror drive which causes the surrounding scene to be recorded in a 360` 'slice' of horizon. ALL vehicles should have a UAV overwatch or at least a UAV area overwatch. So that if you do get a snapshot on junior's vehicle, you can track him as he leaves. Such is what _saturation_ airpower is about. It is something no mutant under glass sky knight will /ever/ accomplish.
Any sniper found in a building should result in said building being burnt to the ground. Any man without a complete biometric ID on him should be shot or hung. Any sniper vehicle found with a mans fingerprints matching biometric ID X should be hunted down and shot. If he refuses to be present, his listed family members homes should be emptied and burnt to the ground. Any false biometric ID data (workplace, residence etc.) on the part of an individual should result in a shooting.
300,000 men on the ground, stripping NATO and Korea and allowing for NO rotations home would guarantee that we stopped playing whackamole with these idiots (stabilize Anbar and the Triangle goes nuts, chase them out of Baghdad and the South becomes a problem). If you won't admit to the need to generate this kind of force then you should leave.
The Iraqis don't respect their own mosques, having blown up several of them and shot their own clerics /inside them/. This should cost them the 'privacy' of their religious convictions as dictated by Article 42-43:

>>
Article 42
Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army.

The occupation applies only to the territory where such authority is established, and in a position to assert itself.

Article 43
The authority of the legitimate power having actually passed into the hands of the occupant, the latter shall take all steps in his power to re-establish and insure, as far as possible, public order and safety, while respecting, unless absolutely prevented, the laws in force in the country.
>>

www.yale.edu...

Whereby these are a HOSTILE ENEMY civillian populace and under the conditions outlined by Article 1 can be treated as an _Armed Force_ with all due prejudice applied.

Everytime an IED goes off or a mobile sniper unit is found or /suspected/ in a given province, all road traffic must be prohibitted there for one month. Additively. Forcing reliance on buses and U.S./UN Food Delivery to crossroads whose locations will be given only AFTER said delivery is made. Feed them like animals.

Where a mobile sniper attack is considered likely based on activity rates, a Mike Force must be present within a 5 minute staging area, to LOCK DOWN entire roadway networks with the intent to force abandonment of the vehicle.

Possession of cell phones and indeed ALL RF REMOTE EQUIPMENT should be a death penalty offense.

Any sniper group which labels themselves should be considered an illegal combatant/terrorist organization and possession of their video tapes, cameras or associated gear by a group member should be a death penalty offense.

Where an ongoing guerilla threat is present and incorrigible, populations must be shifted to their polar opposed sects location and their homes burnt to the ground to prevent reoccupation.

All death penalty cases should be tried in a field court where the crime is enacted and the men hung within sight of their crime or their home, whichever is closer. Their bodies are to be left out, unburied and unattended for not less than 5 days and not more than 20 and when a biohazard is considered imminent, they are to be burned in place.

DO THESE THINGS and Iraq will settle down within a month. Because the only thing these animals respect is power. And until you make it clear that 'Saddam was nothing' with his covert police and torture cells, compared to what we will do _openly_ to restore order, you will never gain mastery of that country.

It worked in Europe in WWII where an active and passive resistance was put down through a combination of aggressive 'screening' and a good cop (U.S./UK) and bad cop (Russian and French) approach to occupation. Here, it can only work if we do it ourselves.

FAIL to do these things, and every one of those lost to in the videos will be a wasted life. 300,000 dollars to raise to the age that a 25 cent bullet can end their existence like cattle. In this latter case, we must leave that Allah Forsaken Nation before we lose men who don't need to die proving we don't have the balls to rule what we take. For good or ill.

Unfortunately, by 2009, the decision will be removed from our hands anyway as the Congress will team up with a Democratic President. Or against a Republican one. And 'set an arbitrary date', just like we did in Vietnam.

Then the world will truly go to hell over there and Iran will defacto rule the Northern Gulf within 5 years.


KPl.


Mod Edit to apply external quote code, please review this link

Mod Edit: Please Review the Following Link Regarding R.E.S.P.E.C.T.

[edit on 18-11-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]



posted on Nov, 18 2006 @ 12:54 PM
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I have seen some fo the videos in Iraq about snipers and they are mostly al-queda forces. They arent iranians. For those of you that think that it was an american who did that you're plenty wrong because americans are trained to perceive their army as an elite force and they want their army to become victorious. People like this, arab fighters, can do some pretty heavy damage, but they presumably are to be perceived as having had training from radical fighters, but running away would be cowardly.

I personally conceptualize the basic training to be the same. While they may not follow the same code of ethics that we follow they follow the ku'ran and that will be all that they nee dfor them and they get all of their training about ethics from their.

I think mounting a camera on a rifle would be pretty hard though. It would take some technique.



posted on Nov, 18 2006 @ 05:55 PM
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could a MOD move my last post with the new Juba videos 2 the first post in this thread, thx.



posted on Nov, 18 2006 @ 07:00 PM
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Originally posted by ch1466
Possession of cell phones and indeed ALL RF REMOTE EQUIPMENT should be a death penalty offense.

Where an ongoing guerilla threat is present and incorrigible, populations must be shifted to their polar opposed sects location and their homes burnt to the ground to prevent reoccupation.

All death penalty cases should be tried in a field court where the crime is enacted and the men hung within sight of their crime or their home, whichever is closer. Their bodies are to be left out, unburied and unattended for not less than 5 days and not more than 20 and when a biohazard is considered imminent, they are to be burned in place.


And people wonder why they get compared to Nazis? This is the same kind of treatment the Nazis meted out in Occupied Europe, including the notion of collective punishment. Great idea. The death penalty for carrying a cell phone?

Face the facts. The US (and UK) have effectively lost control of the country. The idea behind starting the sectarian violence (through black ops destroying some mosques and the formation of death squads) was to stop Shia and Sunni uniting to concentrate on kicking out the invaders. It's spiraled out of control, and it seems the Iraqis have enough time and ammunition to not only kill hundreds, indeed thousands, on sectarian lines... but can still provide effective resistance/asymmetric warfare against the occupiers. Who'd have thought it?

And` please... don't ever try to pretend that the US is fighting for freedom. The myth of "liberating" Iraq can surely be put aside after posts like this.


DO THESE THINGS and Iraq will settle down within a month.


You think? It's their home turf. All you'll do is create more martyrs. After all this time, you still just don't get it, do you?

It worked in Europe in WWII

I think you mean for the Nazis... and the Resistance never went away. The Allies never faced the kind of resistance that we're seeing in Iraq, don't kid yourself.



posted on Nov, 18 2006 @ 07:22 PM
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What's really perverse is that the government has made it illegal for those men to outfit themselves with body armour. If the manufacturer (all prison labour) who owns the government contract to supply the soldiers didn't make it, the soldiers don't wear it. The government hasn't paid for them all to get the prison labour manufactured body armor yet, so they're bureaucratic sitting ducks.

Sniper is too good a word for those goat-herders, it's a crap shoot thanks in large part to the bean counters.



posted on Nov, 18 2006 @ 07:40 PM
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liberators?

I think the people whom wanted to be freed by the americans, are probably the same ones that got murdered in all the air strikes.

-Or perhaps all the citizens in abugrahib that were humiliated by americans... were they the ones who wanted to be free'd ?

-no no no its gotta be the iraqi's that are raped then executed by americans... were they the ones who wanted to be free'd ?

-Or the ones being labeled as TERRORISTS, because they choose to seek revenge when you murder their family? were they the ones who wanted to be free'd ?


If I was them, Id be finding it mighty hard to see the new 'freedom' your bringing.

America is unable to control the civil war that is happening.
So you really believe the iraqi's are going to side with you?
Your a losing force now..
they have a better chance of surivivng if they stick with their ethnic battleclan.

But by all means, Stay, Free, liberate.
If you believe its such a nobel cause.. keep your citizens their..
Hell its only going to cost you your economy, your world standing.. and probably your life.

I hope you enjoy being liberators..
because after bush is gone, you, the averge citizen will be the target of revenge, due to all this freedom your exporting.


[edit on 18-11-2006 by Agit8dChop]



posted on Nov, 18 2006 @ 07:58 PM
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@ Agit8dChop


Hey! I personally feel that the iraqis may have wanted us to liberate them but the situation has gotten out of hand and it's been faulty on our forces because so many of the casual army-men have been torturing regular civilians there but not like that is saying much but I bet if abu-gharaib and the guantanamo bay scandle didnt happen. We would have had this conflict and situation over by now.

We need to reavaluate our focuse in Iraq. Think. Is this really what the people want? We cant leave their without our american presence in there but we cant do the same disasterious things that we did before-- abu-gharaib's humiliation tactics of the iraqi citizens was part of donald rumsfield plan but now he resigned. Now that he has resigned we can move on to more other things.

We should worry about al-quedas presence in iraq now. It's not a matter of just liberating them anymore. The above poster is wrong. The liberation period is over. Now the US troops need to keep a watch and not to let these extremists get past us and take over the iraq situation.


Mod Note: Trim Those Quotes - Please Review this link


[edit on 18-11-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]



posted on Nov, 18 2006 @ 08:05 PM
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ch1466 -

you advocate collective punishment and summary death penalty for carrying a cell phone.

What do you think should be the punishment for this?


CAMP FALLUJAH, Iraq - Two former employees of an American private military contracting company have claimed in a Virginia court that they witnessed their supervisor deliberately shoot at Iraqi vehicles and civilians this summer, and that the company fired them for reporting the incidents.


What sort of punishment should this supervisor get? I'd really like to know.



posted on Nov, 18 2006 @ 09:47 PM
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Originally posted by NWObringer
We should worry about al-quedas presence in iraq now. It's not a matter of just liberating them anymore. The above poster is wrong. The liberation period is over. Now the US troops need to keep a watch and not to let these extremists get past us and take over the iraq situation.


Yep, the NEW Alqaeda will be a breed of iraqis.
Alqaeda wont physically move in on such a scal as to dominate it..
but the hatred alqaeda has, and the fatwa against the US will be tempting for an Iraqi whom just lost his wife and childeren in a US bombing.



Mod Note: Trim Those Quotes - Please Review this link


[edit on 18-11-2006 by DontTreadOnMe]



posted on Nov, 18 2006 @ 10:14 PM
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I'll stick to the issue at hand, and it's snipers in Iraq.


the M40A1 in question your talking about was actually nabbed from a deceased US marine sniper, it was on the Internet a while ago, when a US sniping team then took down these pair. and they found the M40A1 in the car.


I hate to poor gas on the fire here, but facts are facts.



Camp Habbaniyah, Iraq - Scout snipers from 3rd Battalion, 5th Marine Regiment killed an enemy sniper and recovered a Marine sniper rifle lost nearly two years ago during a mission near Habbaniyah June 16.

The rifle was the one formerly used by four Marines of 2nd Battalion, 4th Marine Regiment who were killed on a rooftop in Ramadi June 21, 2004.


That's where the pickle is. As I said earlier, even though the picture is in low rez, I still think that the scope on that rifle is a Schmidt & Bender PMII 3-12x.

My previous quote;


Look at the scope. Even though it's a bad picture, it sure looks like the new Schmidt & Bender PMII 3-12x to me (1=1/4 moa) , which in 2006 replaced the Unertl 10x.


I won't say it's a certainty, but if there is a high rez pict, I'll make it a certainty in a few seconds.

Next, PMII shape is completely different from the old Unertl 10x, which would have been on a 2004 M40A1.

This is where the story does not stick, and no amount of official releases, statements and posing photos will make any difference.

Here's an easy way to figure it out.

I bet that there were no USMC sniper losses in 2006, and the 2nd Battalion, 4th Marine Regiment sniper KIA is the only one on the record, and was most likely lost to an IED during transport.

The problem is that the scopes were in fact changed in 2006, and putting that together with the USMC sniper KIA in 2004, it's the only way to push out a story.

With out official casualty records I can't state that for certain, and maybe one M40A1 was lost to insurgents, but in any case, the rifle in the picture is not from 2004, but from 2006, so it does not add up.



posted on Nov, 18 2006 @ 10:21 PM
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As always, excellent post! This war will bring a new age of terrorism and guess who will be the targets... ALL OF US! I am not fear-mongering as much as I am telling the ugly truth. I believe the count is 150,000 Iraqi deaths? You can't look someone in the eye and say those were all the hadji terrorists or insergents. Somewhere, some decent man lost his daughter. Somewhere, some decent woman lost her husband. Somewhere, some decent young boy saw his father get shot right next to him (i'm actually going on what my friend did over there... he sniped a father next to his boy...).

*War is horrible- sometimes it is a must- I agree. However, there is a line one can cross when killing the enemy. It is generally a good idea to concern yourself with survival (understatement) at all costs in a war. However, this whole idea of "be worse than the enemy" will ruin you, and anyone associated with you. It has happened many times in the past, and always will happen. Evil can't prevail because man is naturally good. No matter how hard you try, you are going to throw ethics back in on yourself. Hence why most murderers leave clues at the scene. Hence why Hitler ultimately failed. Ethics.

This whole debate can be summed up in one paragraph. A while ago, a very intelligent man decided he could take power by giving his criminal friends positions of power, completely playing the middle class with their hatreds + absolutes... but even more sinister- their strength and patriotism, creating a police state society, staging terror attacks, and starting a campaign to dominate the planet. That man's name was Adolf Hitler.

Ask yourself this- even if you agree with the plan- did this happen again?


Also I want to address the mentality of killing anyone for small crimes and possible harmful actions. I know what it's like to have these ideas, I USED TO BE THIS WAY! Sure, you just kill everyone who commits crimes and then there will be no crime right? If they use a cellphone in an airport, kill them- that could be used as a weapon on a plane. If someone is speeding, just mace them after you pull them over, beat them up, and take away their license. Hold public executions and then people will be too afraid to act out.

These ideas are horrible for America. Why? Criminals don't outnumber good people. Why focus your society on a small percentage when the bigger percentage doesn't need this rediculous rules? You create a situation where the majority, being good, are punished for crimes and uses they'd never do or think up. Sorry, but think through your ideas before you get radical. Communism, Socialism, all that police state crap never works. The police get shot, the spooks get murdered, and the politicians get hanged. This is how it's always been. You can't stop man's nature, even with total control (and trust me, I used to be for the police state 6 years ago).

But when it comes to Iraq, when the majority are criminals who have sex with men for fun (i'm not kidding, ask a soldier how messedup it is), these people only will respect power over them. That's why Saddam managed and stayed in power. Democracy doesn't work for a criminal and near-death population. However, the only way you won't ruin yourself in the process, is to try to bring up the population when it comes to responsibility and ethics.


[edit on 18-11-2006 by jaguarmike]



posted on Nov, 18 2006 @ 10:35 PM
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Originally posted by rich23
ch1466 -

you advocate collective punishment and summary death penalty for carrying a cell phone.

What do you think should be the punishment for this?


CAMP FALLUJAH, Iraq - Two former employees of an American private military contracting company have claimed in a Virginia court that they witnessed their supervisor deliberately shoot at Iraqi vehicles and civilians this summer, and that the company fired them for reporting the incidents.


What sort of punishment should this supervisor get? I'd really like to know.



Well we don't know all the facts yet. This is why we have a court system. Don't believe anything until you see all the facts presented. Innocent until proven guilty is the American way of 1776, not the Chinese version of guilty until proven innocent (i'm not making this up).

PMC's are supposed to be cowboys, it's their job. Murder is murder. Defense is defense. Security is security. You throw guns drugs and money into the equation with little integrity and it's never good. Not all security contractors are selected on integrity- and unfortunately these are the stories you here. You hardly hear the good stories about liberating and helping out. Maybe the cause just happens to be right, maybe its a wrong cause- whatever. Simple as that. If found innocent, he should get back his court fees. If found guilty, he should be shot in the back of the head. But in reality, what good would that do?

[edit on 18-11-2006 by jaguarmike]



posted on Nov, 18 2006 @ 10:43 PM
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Originally posted by deltaboy

Well gee, because the gun is next to the camera maybe? The recoil can move the camera.

Let me show you something...


Gee you did the following to NOT make your point here... A. not prove that gun camera's exist and B. try to change the topic such that nobody here knows what your point is?

I repeat: Israeli's have developed gun mount video cameras which despite what some believe here are a sophisticated technology and for which I do not understand how an Iraqi rag tag sniper would have one?



posted on Nov, 18 2006 @ 11:24 PM
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Originally posted by iskander
With out official casualty records I can't state that for certain, and maybe one M40A1 was lost to insurgents, but in any case, the rifle in the picture is not from 2004, but from 2006, so it does not add up.


You say you're not sure at the beginning of the post and then contradict the official report and assert that your opinion and guess it correct and they must have made it up.


Also, you sure about the type of scope issues to those snipers in 04?



posted on Nov, 18 2006 @ 11:31 PM
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I'll take this one apart. I just can't stand sloppy work, that's all.



Sniper Section Four was in a hide when the spotter observed a military-aged male inside a nearby parked car videotaping a passing patrol of amphibious assault vehicles. The Marines saw a rifle stock by the insurgent’s side.


"military-aged male inside a nearby parked car", so it had to be the shooters since the camcorder was on the rear right side. In order to ID the weapon, the spotter had to be positioned well above the car, and had to look down into it. Not a single sniper will expose his weapon until he's in position and ready to fire.

"inside a nearby parked car videotaping a passing patrol" that clearly states that the back seat target was video taping the patrol, it is also said that he was the shooter, so he had to put down his camera, get his weapon and get into position. Both the camcorder and the rifle are on the rear right seat, the shooter is in the rear left seat, body facing forward, slumping to his right.

He was not in a a shooting position.



We were in the right place at the right time,” said Sgt. Kevin Homestead an infantryman from K Company serving as a spotter for the sniper team that day.


So I was correct. The area was under heavy enemy sniper fire, so USMC put out hunter teams.


They first radioed the passing Marines and told them they were being watched by an enemy sniper and to stay low. The insurgent then sealed his own fate by preparing the weapon. The 21-year-old Marine sniper, who declined to be interviewed – aimed in at the gunman’s head behind the rear-side window.


Not really sure what they meant by "staying low". Just as I said earlier, in order for that spotter to make that rifle, the spotter had to be well above the car. In urban setting, a sniper hide is not effective when it's set up low, you simply loose area coverage and throw away your LOS.



He recited a mantra in his head. Breathe, relax, aim, squeeze, surprise.


Sure, but now we get into details.

Note that the picture clearly shows a window corner. The smallest area, highest curvature glass on that vehicle. Note the supposed bullet path that the red arrow actually suggests. The shot had to be coming from a low sniper hide, while we already know that the spotter had to be high up to make the weapon unless the enemy sniper was waving it around.

That corner window presents a much bigger bullet path deflection problem then any other spot on the cars body.

Remember that idiot sniper in the Good Guys shooting? He opened fire when the target was opening a half inch glass door. The round shuttered the door, but naturally it was deflected, and the target proceeded to execute the hostages.

That corner window present similar problem, and here's why.

In order to assure a clean penetration through a high angle car window, you have to be close enough to the target so the round will retain enough energy to cleanly punch right through.

When a .308 round does have enough energy to pass right through, it creates a high pressure glass shatter pattern. The picture we have clearly shows a low pressure shatter pattern, with debris actually clearly visible.

In high pressure shatter pattern, small glass chunks are blasted well with in the car, and actually get indeed in the target itself.

The only plausible alternative here is a long distance shot, with the bullet being on the low end of its trajectory.

The problem there is that having little energy left, the round will push through the corner window and tumble, thus completely deflecting from its original path.

If the target was directly by that corner window, that would have been possible if the shot came from a real pro sniper, but it's a very risky move, simply because there's no guarantee that the target will go down.

In any case, there's no shot exit behind the supposed shooter, which should have shattered the rear left door window. For the round to loose enough energy to plant it self in the skull with out going right through after blasting through a corner window, we're talking over 600 meters here.


The enemy sniper died with the gun in his lap.


Whoops. So who moved it on the rear right seat then? That's called scene contamination.


They dialed K Company – or Samurai 6 – and reported the target was dead.

“We then saw another military-aged male ... enter the passenger side door,” said Homestead, 26, from Ontario, Ore. “He was surprised to see the other shooter was killed.”

The second insurgent scurried around the car and jumped in the driver’s seat.


Hold up, so the driver was not ID before the shooter opened up? How does that work? Don't think so. Before opening fire, all targets are identified.

I assume that the driver was in the front left seat before he moved to the drivers seat.


With the sniper now spotting for him, Homestead aimed in with his M-4 carbine and put three bullets in the driver before he could start the car.


Sorry, M4 maxes out at 300 meters at best. SS109 shot out of M4 does not fragment at all if it hits a target over 150 meters, so it's like shooting a .22.

So we have a shooter on the low, spotter on the high, and for some reason the shooter was spotting for the spotter, and the spotter put 3 SS109 rounds into the front seat target through an open window from what, 300 meters away? And with out shattering the front left door window? Don't think so. Why? Simple.

At 150 meters SS10 round does not fragment, at 100 meters it splits in two pieces right at the groove, 100 meters and under it shatters. A head shot from under 100 meters blows a human skull apart, thus naturally leaving a rather big mess.

150 meters and over, the round will pass right through the head, and in the case of the driver it is clearly not so because the window behind him is intact.

Again, even from 300 meters the .308 round wold have left a high pressure shatter pattern in the corner window, and would have went right through the targets head, thus busting the door window behind him.

So in any case it is simply impossible for the shooter and the spotter to be in the same position in this scenario, and sniper teams are paired up.


A squad of K Company Marines came to the position and saw the sniper dead and the driver shot three times. The driver died as soon as the squad arrived on scene.

They pulled out the sniper rifle and immediately recognized that it was an M-40A1, the same used by the snipers of 2nd Battalion, 4th Marine Regiment in 2004.


Here we go, they pulled the rifle out and the driver dies as soon as they arrived. By the way, M16A2 does not have a full auto mode, but single fire and a 3 round burst.

Let me put it this way, those K Company Marines were bait, and the 3rd Battalion, 5th Marine Regiment Scout snipers were in anti-sniper hides busy tracking Iraqi sniper teams.

K Company Marines were all hyped up for getting some payback, saw a camcorder in a parked car, and jumped it. A single 3 round burst to the body of the driver, and to the passenger.

The passenger was most likely shot after the driver, right through the chest, and the rounds went through back seat.


The trunk of the car contained a pistol, a hand grenade, dozens of 7.62 mm rounds, multiple license plates and several camcorder tapes.


I would have liked to see the pictures of that trunk.


“When we saw the scope and stock, we knew what it was,” Homestead said.


Interesting for them to point out the scope.


The rifle was missing for nearly two years – almost to the day. Marines believed the insurgent they killed, or those closely associated with him, had it all along. It is unknown how many times it was used against U.S. and Iraqi forces.


Doesn't' make sense. Every single clip of insurgent snipers we have clearly show that semi-auto rifles were used, and not bolt action.


“He was a very good sniper,” Homestead said. “But he got cocky and slipped up and it was our time to catch that.”


Well that's a contradiction in it self. "A very good sniper" does not get cocky.



The weapon came full circle, having originally belonged to the Darkhorse battalion in Operation Iraqi Freedom I, who turned it over to the “Magnificent Bastards” of 2nd Battalion, 4th Marine Regiment. Coincidentally, a Darkhorse sniper killed the insurgent sniper, and a former Magnificent Bastard killed the spotter.


Ok.


Darkhorse battalion had been dealing with sporadic sniper attacks since arriving in Iraq in January. Now, Marines have one less sniper to worry about.


Not really, every single clip I've seen is far from being "sporadic sniper attacks".


“It’s very rewarding to take them out the way we did,” said Lt. Col. Patrick G. Looney, the battalion commander. “Doubly rewarding that it’s a 2/4 sniper rifle, even though it won’t bring back the four Marines who were killed that day.”

Triple rewarding that it won’t be used on another Marine or soldier, he added.


Again, if it was used, considering that a camcorder was in the picture, we are yet to see a single clip with that used against US troops.


“The credit has to go to Sgt. Homestead and the Sniper Section leader who made the kill,” said 1st Lt. J. H. Cusack, Sniper Platoon commander. “It was more than being in the right place at the right time.

“It was the culmination of all of the training and planning the section leader had done up until that moment,” Cusak added. “Being absolutely alert and focused to detect a small clue during a period of apparent inactivity and a perfectly executed shot.”


Sorry, not making the driver before the first shot is not exactly "Being absolutely alert and focused to detect a small clue".


Darkhorse snipers have since removed the powder and primer from the last 7.62 mm round chambered in the recaptured rifle. They will mount it on a plaque and present it to the Magnificent Bastards’ snipers to honor their lost Marines.

Looney said the ability to give some retribution for their loss makes the day a “grand-slam home run for sniper ops.” He credited the snipers’ professionalism and attitude in accomplishing the mission throughout their area of operations.


And we have the very morale booster I was talking about in the very beginning.


“I would say that the guys who shot are typical of the Darkhorse snipers,” said Looney, 43, from Oceanside, Calif. “They’re very proficient, very modest, very busy. They’re out there almost daily doing great things in this AO and our old AO. The fact that they’re taking a back seat and letting the battalion reap the benefits is typical of the kind of Marines they are.”


From this point on every guy on patrol will know that they are covered by Darkhorse snipers. Mission accomplished.



posted on Nov, 18 2006 @ 11:33 PM
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Here we go,

www.youtube.com...

SVD, just as I said.

No Israli wonder rifles, no bolt action M40A1s.



posted on Nov, 19 2006 @ 12:59 AM
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These guys are a big problem.

www.youtube.com...

Time code 07:10. Heavy wind, solid shot.

07:35.- He was really close. Well under 300 meters, from a low hide. In every clip the ejection sound is the same, so they must be using a catch so the casings won't bouncing around the car.

10:00, the shooter was close here as well.

Damn it, a pro at work here;

www.youtube.com...

Time code 00:55, shooters LOS is obstructed, and he still scores a clean shot.

Skill level of these guys does vary, which is actually a problem, because just as showed in the video, it means that they are actively training new snipers.

The guy speaking in the videos is not a sniper. Among other obvious tells, he breaths to heavily. The videos are used as a psychological weapon, just as the guy in the video says.

Nobody drops-and-rolls dammit.

This is another problem -

www.youtube.com...

Time code - 02:00. - It's a pelvis shot. Right below the armor. The round shatters the pelvis, causes massive internal hemorrhaging and paradises the legs.

Bad sign here. It's a solid shot, right below the armor, in the 14X5 inch zone.

Time code - 03:51 - If even half of those 11 claimed US sniper kills are confirmed, it's not good at all.

Here's why right here - www.youtube.com...

Even if it's a real engagement, and not morale lifting target practice for the camera, (pay attention to many clicks he was turning there) this is how snipers get killed real quick.

Blasting what 3 30 round mags from the same position is just like sprinting into your own grave. One shot, one kill.

Time-code 03:10. - I just can't see what the heck they all shooting at. I hear lot of shooting and saw a bus going by.

Time code 03:25 - One guy yells out "We got return fire coming from the front." My point exactly.

Time code - 03:46 - "Ok, one just went down". Sure is a lot of sniper fire to get one kill.




Anyway, if it's not happening already this is what going to happen, a second waive.

Naturally USMC and mercs are aggressively trying to set anti-sniper traps.

By now Iraqi snipers have every US soldier in Iraq on the swivel.

It really bothers me to see how many armor crews are targeted. Sitting there with your head sticking out is just asking for it.

Eventually anti-sniper traps will start taking a toll on Iraqi shooters. Then they will start combing sniper fire with IEDs.

They'll position a younger, less experienced shooter as a decoy. He will shot, casing the troops to clump up and run for cover, and that's where the IED will go off. By then the decoy sniper will dislocate.

At the first shot USMC snipers will immediately mark and range, and open up on the Iraqi decoy. This is where timing and general situation decides if he lives or not.

If IED blast disorients USMC snipers, dumps out enough smoke, and if the Iraqi decoy properly pull out, he'll have a good chance of surviving.

The problem is that USMC snipers gave up their position to Iraqi pro sniper who's on his own anti-sniper mission. It's only the matter of time before it starts.

That way Iraqis set a survival of the fittest type training for their fresh snipers, and at the same time using it to zero in on USMC snipers who are out to hunt them, and then the circle is complete.

I say it's good time for our boys to come home.

edit:type, I'm sure there are more.


[edit on 19-11-2006 by iskander]



posted on Nov, 19 2006 @ 02:21 AM
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ok i'm sorry this dosn't go along with the discussions but as they said, these are some pretty horrible videos,
see, i play alot of video games, Battlefield 2, Socom and being the sniper is my favorite guy ... so you take the guy easily when he dosn't know where you are .....
simple right

but sierously i'm 16 now and watching this video ... starts this kid to think, this isnt good, and as some of you were saying its physcological weapon... well its working alright
this is horrible to see the men and women of our country die, and to see people praiseing this "juba" killers deeds
its horrible, but from me it gets the opposite reaction ... now i feel hatred for this sniper, i feel as if i wish to hurt him, to get back at him ...

are these feelings right?




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