The Soul does not exist (note to Mods at beginning)

Originally posted by Azathoth does it not seems strange that we all experience life as our own little conciousness? How in our own minds we are the center of everything. Not saying each of us is egotistical , but our very aspect on life is centered around "US" I've been thinking of possibilities of how it is we come to be. While animals we really don't have very much instinct except the basic primal ones. After that everything else is extra, more then what as a being we want or need. You could equate our essence like an engine. Which bring up a very good question. Does everything alive have an essence? Though some things are unable to defend themselves from attack (i.e. trees, plants) they do experience a sort of suffering. Thus if a plant experiences sever trama they die. Though currently impossible to prove now, everything alive has something driving it. how is it we evolved from the sludge and continue to evolve now? For what purpose would we need to change or continually change? Something has to be driving it weither subconciously or instinctively. Why else would there have to be change? what else would drive us or any species to change its habit or habitat. By adding art, creating devices to talk long distances. These were never needed before, so why are they now? we are expanding into new territory driven by something. So does this mean we will end up fat blobs of flesh , due to making everything easy? Will the mind develope and the body wither as the mind takes on a more important role. Our bodies are just instruments of our mind.

Next time you see an animal watch it and ask the question. does it see its world centered around itself as well?

-Aza

Beautiful post. If I could only express myself half as well.
What is driving everything, exactly. Some would say a soul, but we have to look at what is driving not just us, but everything.
I saw a post that shows sound vibrating sand and it formed various pattersn, etc.
Point being is that this ties into to whole quantum string theory bit...that we are all made up of vibrations. Everything is like a harmony...and the images are not real, they are created by "light" and the signals that get sent to the brain...the brain basically is like a computer interpreting the message it gets.
So what causes the harmony...and what happens once one harmony "dies". Is it death, or is it just a shift to something else. No not a soul shifing to another life, but basically your particles being like a drop of water, joining other particles to take on new life.
Or is their a string of essence in everything, that is "God" that experiences this...its ONE, and it is the only pure thing that exist. And yet could it be a mix, as religion seems to imply, where indeed some images have no essence of creator, but I go back to the vibration theory...we are all vibrating...the tables vibrate...all made of strings.
Bassplry has a point with the robot, machine idea...once they acieve a certain amount of "consciousness" then they to, will they be discriminated against...saying, you dont have a soul.
They cant say in defense, we do just as much as you...as neither will be able to "prove it".

Intersting things to think about. Thanks for sharing.

Peace

Dalen

Originally posted by Unrealised
To me, the soul does NOT equate to immortality, it equates to that certain part of us all that can feel love, express emotion, and give us a sense of self un-matched by any other creature on this planet.

My mother is dying from Cancer in a hospital. She isn't coming home. She has a couple of days to four weeks to live.

The thought of my mother dying at the age of 47 scares the hell out of me. I am only 26 and i feel ripped off. She has a soul that I feel will live on forever, wether you can prove it with science or not. Science failed my mother, and it wil continue to fail alot of people.

Science can NEVER prove the existence of the spirit or the soul because both of these elements of the human condition are traditionally thought to be above and beyond human understanding.

That is my take on the matter. I appreciate your thoughts and ideas, as it gives me a greater understanding and perspective on my own beliefs.

I thank you for your time and effort on raising this issue. Every person who has posted on this thread has gotten something from it.

Thank you for your post. And I am indeed sensitive to those who have and will experience the loss of a loved one. For them the issue of a soul is indeed very sensitive.
My father-in-law, passed away last year. We lived with him for the last three and a half months of his life. We watched as he saw his 4 grandkids for the first time (we moved from the U.S. to Hungary) and wathced him laugh, and enjoy their presence. After he passed away, it was interesting indeed. His concept was that when you die, you only exist in your "kids" or loved ones. I suppose the memories we impart, I dont know. Yes, it is an extreme emotional time, or can be, if you are close to someone...again my regards to you, peace with you & your mother during these times.

Peace

Dalen

I did want to add, my father-in-laws death, perhaps has played in influential role in my quest in understanding the after-life more. Or at least to really respect what is important in life.
So many people live in the rat-race, this is fine, if you see it for what it is...but when you struggle your whole life, and worry about what people take from you, or what you gain to lose, etc. instead of looking at everything as a gift, realizing everything is o.k. and that as Solomon said, you cant take anything with you...in that case, the person loses.
Its sad, I can look at my mother-in-law, and brother-in-law and tell that they dont get the point...we all meet the same fate, so why stress about things that dont matter, especially in the long run. (jobs, personal conflicts of ideas, etc.)

[edit on 18-11-2006 by dAlen]

I just want to say, I went to bed last night and woke up to over 30 something new responces.
It is amazing to see the kind of feedback that has happened in this thread.
Pretty much all of the comments have been of quality and quite enjoyable to read.
(no snide remarks, but sincere comments that people have taken the time to think through and share from their inner-most self, or pardon the pun, 'soul')

Just wanted to say thank you, and that I have read all the post, and again enjoyed them immenseley, even the ones I havent replied to. (If I replied to all of them, it would be pages of just me talking...not sure that would be all to exciting without some kind of break inbetween. )

Peace to all

Dalen

My personal belief is that we do have a soul, however our soul, like our body, is (for lack of a beter word) biodegradable.

I believe that just our bodies break down into its base elements and spreads itself throughout the planet, so too does our soul. I don't believe we are reincarnated in any way. Death is final. However, aspects of what made us 'us', move throughout the world and join with everything on the world.
So when we die, we die. But we become a part of something larger.

I don't believe we go to Heaven or Hell or Limbo or Purgatory. We stay here and enrich the rest of the life, which in turn will die and further enrich the planet.

Remember what I say, I have searched many years, and I do have some insight.

If you want the ultimate answer, you will have to pay the ultimate price. And everyone gets their turn to find out. To say that such and such does or does not exist is to put such and such in a box. God both exists and does not exist. The soul is the same story, and Nothing cannot be put in a box.

Oblivion may not be so bad, but we are tought that continuity is more important than anything else.

Yes, I am saying energy and matter can be destroyed, not just swapped from one state to another. Teleportation is a fine example of data being destroyed. Then one needs to accept a Creator as well in a Universe ruled by Oblivion. We are a dream in the mind of the dreamer.

We all know that entropy in Universe increases (that means Chaos or disorder increases). May be it true, but there are some parts of Universe where entropy decreases – it is life. Life essence is to become more complex, coordinated, less chaos, etc. May be it is not true in reality, but lets assume it is true. And if biologists say that I’m wrong – SORRY. But according to my understanding about life essence, not only organic beings may be alive. That means any substance which entropy decreases may be treated as living being. That means – organic, software, fire beings, or even gravitational beings. (It just now came to my mind. Sounds good, but I hardly imagine how they may look like. )
Now to the topic. Let’s think that there are two parts (or we may call FORCES) in Universe: Disorder (Death, or Hate) and Order (Life, or Love). I that case we may think, that ALL LIVING BEINGS are part, or some manifestation of Order. So, if we call it SOUL of UNIVERSE (or we may call it GOD, no difference), we will have simple answer what it is soul of single living being. Sorry, that I say living being, but not human being. I think, that all living beings (that means all parts of universe where entropy is decreasing) are manifestations of this universal force – Soul of Universe. That means we – as living beings are just like a bowls or bottle for a water and this universal Soul takes its shape according to our form from the very beginning of our existence. Actually, there is no death (we are just part of one soul with some independence - we call it consciousness) and there is no birth too. By the way, it is one more interesting problem to discuss too. The BIRTH. When we should start call living being – human being? I think there is no such point. All living beings are part of one Soul, but with the different shape (degree of independence, or consciousness).
But why we die? Is it fight between Order and Disorder? May be. Sounds interesting, because we are used to fight all our life – for food, for money, for tickets to a new movie… But may be it is simpler. May be purpose of the Universal Sole is to develop – or to know itself and Universe. For this purpose it needs to have some dead matter to create living matter. And may be for this purpose it terminates (or it is determined somehow differently in our genes or in another ways) some worthless living beings and they become dead matter just for one purpose – to become building bricks for a new living beings. Somebody called it evolution, but it looks in a bit different way…
Sorry, may be my understanding of the Universe and Soul is a bit crazy, but I’m an old man, but still SF fan. So, it is forgivable… I think that there is no difference if you are Christian, Muslim, Buddhist or Judaist. Real difference (and may be real thread) is institutions that represent these religions. If there will be no such powerful institutions, I guess we will have less problems in a world.

Originally posted by JackofBlades
My personal belief is that we do have a soul, however our soul, like our body, is (for lack of a beter word) biodegradable.

I believe that just our bodies break down into its base elements and spreads itself throughout the planet, so too does our soul. I don't believe we are reincarnated in any way. Death is final. However, aspects of what made us 'us', move throughout the world and join with everything on the world.
So when we die, we die. But we become a part of something larger.

I don't believe we go to Heaven or Hell or Limbo or Purgatory. We stay here and enrich the rest of the life, which in turn will die and further enrich the planet.

See, this is an interesting concept.
In this theory, it would not really matter if there were a soul, or more precisely its as if you dont have a soul.
Now I will clarify. I say this because the mass multitude views the soul as something eternal that is the "YOU" that you know now.

Again, I tend, at the current moment, to continue along the lines of how you and others have presented the soul...as something larger than what the mass believes and essence not really the "YOU" that so many think, and currently hope will exist after death.

That is necessarily bad. (in that its not the "US" we currently know.)
We only have what we have experienced to base our assumptions and emotions on..unless we let go, to an extent, and accept what is...accept the unknown.
In this way, we may be surprised at what "WE" really are, or what our 'soul' really is upon death.

Yes, one way or another, rather it be the soul, or body, or both...upon death, it would seem that the essence goes into feeding other aspects of life and creation. We are all vibrations from tables to people. Now to say our vibration remains on a "conscious" level as what we have now, I dont know.

Peace

Dalen

Originally posted by Matyas
Remember what I say, I have searched many years, and I do have some insight.

If you want the ultimate answer, you will have to pay the ultimate price. And everyone gets their turn to find out. To say that such and such does or does not exist is to put such and such in a box. God both exists and does not exist. The soul is the same story, and Nothing cannot be put in a box.

Oblivion may not be so bad, but we are tought that continuity is more important than anything else.

Yes, I am saying energy and matter can be destroyed, not just swapped from one state to another. Teleportation is a fine example of data being destroyed. Then one needs to accept a Creator as well in a Universe ruled by Oblivion. We are a dream in the mind of the dreamer.

By all means, insight from all is welcome in this thread.
I think to pay the ultimate price, as mentioned in your earlier post, may not be beneficial if Im not aware of the result afterwards. I am more keen to await for someones return from the dead, if that is at all possible.

Until then, I believe, and it would even be my hope, through science, to extend my life that I have here. Thats where I am not as keen on reincarnation, etc., as I have learned a lot, for me anyways, and would wish to continue, as there is infinity to learn...and to start over and over again, is not to desirable. (Worse yet...to be split into billions of particles to support another consciousness that would be as unaware of me, as I am of the cells that keep me alive in my own body.)

Isnt that interesting though. Our cells have a life of their own...we do not command them.
They probably say, "who is God...I wonder if he exist" all the while they keep me alive, without them I would not be, yet without me they would not be either.

Kind of like kabbalah in a way. We are part of Adam, or part of Christ...he is the head...etc.
We are part of something bigger, and he is part of something bigger...it goes on for eternity both directions, I suppose. Along with parrallel universes, and unlimted possiblities, it gets quite crazy.
To say what started it all would help to understand how it will finish...but I suppose dumping theories like time, etc. realizing they are mere tools to help us better work in this "game", is a step in understanding it all.
In summary...through surrender, we understand...when we are at peace we get answers, but then the mind starts up again.

Peace

Dalen

Originally posted by Romas
Now to the topic. Let’s think that there are two parts (or we may call FORCES) in Universe: Disorder (Death, or Hate) and Order (Life, or Love). I that case we may think, that ALL LIVING BEINGS are part, or some manifestation of Order. So, if we call it SOUL of UNIVERSE (or we may call it GOD, no difference), we will have simple answer what it is soul of single living being. Sorry, that I say living being, but not human being. I think, that all living beings (that means all parts of universe where entropy is decreasing) are manifestations of this universal force – Soul of Universe. That means we – as living beings are just like a bowls or bottle for a water and this universal Soul takes its shape according to our form from the very beginning of our existence. Actually, there is no death (we are just part of one soul with some independence - we call it consciousness) and there is no birth too. By the way, it is one more interesting problem to discuss too. The BIRTH. When we should start call living being – human being? I think there is no such point. All living beings are part of one Soul, but with the different shape (degree of independence, or consciousness).

The concept of being "clay jars" which a spririt/soul pours itself into is indeed a concept found in the teachings of Paul.
Also in judaism where the soul is sometimes said to not enter until later after the baby is already born. (not only that, when reading the gates of reincarnation by rabbi Haim Vital, it gets crazy...you can have different souls come down for different periods of time to help you, etc. Sounds a bit like possession, but anyway.) This begs the question...are we like robots, machines, and a greater intelligence pours itself into us, and can also leave us...in a way we could operate, and not really even know something was controlling us? This is interesting.
But then if we are all made up of harmonics, or vibrational strings...then we are all equal...or not.
As who makes the vibration to make creation, who plucks the strings?
So I suppose it could be this universal soul you speak of, which is interesting.
It is kind of like the fall of Adam where in Kabbalah Adam is trying to reintegrate himself, and in Christianity to Christ. Its as if the "nothingness" (Ayin Sof or ultimate God...nothingness) made something, and wishes to dwell in it. (Kind of like Christ coming to dwell in man...or God in Christ...as well as in all of us.) Interesting concepts indeed.

Thanks for your post.

Peace

Dalen

- you dont have to pardon yourself for being 'old'...mark it down as you are 'experienced'.
When science helps us live to 1k+ years within the nex 50 years, you will be quite young.
My hope is that science can keep up (I know it can, as to whether its accessible is another thing.)
So what becomes important is the experience we have.


[edit on 18-11-2006 by dAlen]

I honestly don't see the point in arguing about something that can't be proven. All it will do is reaffirm peoples' beliefs or (mess) up insecure people's thoughts.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
removed profanity

[edit on 18/11/06 by masqua]

Originally posted by Glooper23
I honestly don't see the point in arguing about something that can't be proven. All it will do is reaffirm peoples' beliefs or # up insecure people's thoughts.

Hopefully this thread wont result in arguing.
I have been impressed with the way people have freely expressed their opinions concerning this, without needing to resort to arguing, but clarifying it is what they believe...and the rest of us allow space for them to hold that belief. In most cases, quite a few people actually do not seem to hold fastly to one thought, but seem rather open minded and keenly interested in finding the answer to the topic...if it were to present itself, without trying to push for it.

Your caution about this messing up insecure peoples thoughts is well taken, I fully see your point.
It is interesting sometimes when a rug feels like its about to be, or rather feels pulled out from you.
Most people dont even go that far in their search (whatever it may be) if it threatens a well established pattern of thought. Indeed those that are willing to challenge and face the questions that they have hidden inside them are quite admired by me.
(not that it matters who I admire ) I say this becaus after over 30+ years of being raised in steeped tradition, I found myself only a few years ago faced with a type of fear.
Oh my God, if this core central teaching isnt true then my whole universe is upside down...I have not "God" to help me (but the lack of help through the years is what got me searching anyway), and then Im depended upon myself. And honestly I have always leaned heavily upon the concept of God working things out for me. Not to go down a religious trail, or to ramble on more about my experience, I will leave it hanging so to speak...what I wanted to highlight is that in order to move to the next level, one will be faced, it seems, with facing the "unbearable", the feeling of "isolation" perhaps, etc. From my experience, you come out of it.
By no means am I saying this is for everyone, I admit there is a time and place for all...

I believe all those that come and read this forum, came for a reason...even if they blow off the whole concept, or even if it challenges them to the core. Help is always there, in some form...even if we seem totally alone.

As for reconfirming their beliefs...that is fine to...they will believe what they will anyway I suppose. Most people believe in something, and cling to it before swinging on the vine to the next idea...rarely do we let go of all in a free fall, so to speak, in order to discover...it takes patience as the answer may not pop up the next day. But if you observer, life is like a puzzle, you always seem to have one piece to play with...even if its the piece called uncertainty.

Thanks for your post

Peace

Dalen

What is it with this need to know why we are here? The only people who say that are those who don't know their place in the world. Or those who are not happy with their status. No, money don't breed happiness. As for the soul, of course it's real. Why else do you think you have emotions? Why react to emotional stimuli except that there is a soul. Only emotional situations create emotional responses. Nothing else in or outside of the human body creates these. A cut on your arm elicits an "Ouch" response. That's because of the nerves being excited. What nerves get excited when a loved one dies. Here's a hint: It's not physical.
If people haven't found a place in the world, then it's time to change perspectives. Maybe what people are doing now isn't working.
If the cheese is messing with your stomach, maybe it's time to put the cheese away.

Originally posted by Freebrain
What is it with this need to know why we are here? The only people who say that are those who don't know their place in the world.

If people haven't found a place in the world, then it's time to change perspectives. Maybe what people are doing now isn't working.

- There is no need to know anything. Some of just want to know...by all means you and anyone else is not required to have an interest, nor do I or others expect you to.
Thats what makes life interesting, I suppose, we all have different interest.

- As far as knowing my place in the world. Of course you are entilted to your conclusions...wouldnt suggest its correct...again, Im only speaking on my behalf, but you may have some truth there.
What is the place in the world anyway? This thread is quite long, but I relayed a story, I believe its on this page, about my father-in-laws death.

My point is that people think they have a place in the world, and they play the drama.
Once you die, your place and all you work for, as solomon rightfully pointed out, is useless.
You take nothing with you... So, if I understand your meaning of having a place in this world to be that of which I just described...then your right its not for me, and thats exactly why I pose the question. So I guess we agree after all.
My place is here and now, as is everyone elses...

Thanks for your post.

Peace

Dalen

Solomon replied we go to the earth, meaning our physical bodies. Wisdom: We are so consumed by our brief lives not regarding eternity.

He was not speaking of the eternal soul, that will reside somewhere forever, he was speaking of the limited thinking of people regarding our brief existence in this flesh as their main focus. Which is sad. Regard Eternity people. Your soul is an eternal asset not riches and wealth that fades away. You can't take that to the grave.

Also, no one has to prove to you that you have a soul or not. When you die, you'll be in God's Hands-He will deal with you accordingly. In short, get your life right through Jesus. God is a Spirit and the Father of Spirits. You are of Body, Soul and Spirit. 3 parts. Just like your Creator who is of 3 parts. Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Focus on the Unseen that can't be proven by physical means or carnal understanding. You can't wrap your limited understanding around a higher God existing understanding. It's impossible. It's the unseen that is eternal.

Can you prove there is not a Soul? The burden of proving there is not lies on you. The existence of a soul is already proven when God breathed into Adam making him a living soul. We come from God-We go back to Him. But if we deny Him. He will cast all unbelievers away. He'll place your soul where it will reside forever, because it is the soul that never dies. Heaven with Him or Hell and the Lake of Fire without Him.

Also, don't play with out of body experiences-The Devil will snag you if you don't have Jesus protection. There are levels of authority in the spirit. Every name under Jesus name, Who is the highest authority. If you are playing with spiritual experimentations and not fighting spiritual warfare by the authority of Jesus- you will be Devil and Demon Bait little lamb.

OP. The Soul exists. Try some astral projection and see it for yourself. And even hypnosis to find out your past lives.

The Spirit is the Cup. The Soul is what you put into the cup...

We'd be nothing without the soul. You wouldn't have even been able to write that message.

I understand where your coming from. Being brainwashed in religion and then having different beliefs. I've been there to some extent But Spiritualism and Religion are not the same. Spiritualism is looking within yourself.

WE ARE ALL BEINGS OF LIGHT. Deep down. Beings of Light.

[edit on 18-11-2006 by jinsanity]

Originally posted by Aquire Wisdom

Solomon replied we go to the earth, meaning our physical bodies. Wisdom: We are so consumed by our brief lives not regarding eternity.

He was not speaking of the eternal soul, that will reside somewhere forever, he was speaking of the limited thinking of people regarding our brief existence in this flesh as their main focus. Which is sad.

Also, no one has to prove to you that you have a soul or not. When you die, you'll be in God's Hands-He will deal with you accordingly.

- Im not sure how many time I will say this on one page...
...but you are right, no one has to prove anything to me. I never asked them to.

- As for Solomon, it is sad that more Christians dont read the Bible. But this is as it is, as there is many issues that actually conflict with doctrine, and even apparent contradictions with itself.
Again, this is not meant to go off topic, but I will respond to the bit about Solomon.
N.A.S.B.(New American Standard Bible) -
Ecclesiastes 3 19-21 (focus on his comments on 21 if you read anything
19) For the fate of the sons of men and the fate of beast is the same.
As one dies so dies the other; indeed, they all have the same breath and there is no advantage for man over beast, for all is vanity.
20) All go to the same place. All came from dust and all return to the dust.
21) WHO KNOWS that the breath of man ascends upward and the breath of the beast descends downward to the earth?
22) I have seen that nothing is better than that man should be happy in his activities, for that is his lot. For who will bring him to see what will occur after him?
(The last verse is a bonus beam of hope for those starting to despair after vs. 21. )

Again, I do not plan to debate from a biblical standpoint any further.
If someone reads this differently than I do, this is fine. I am not here to debate the Bible to Jew or Christian, it would take to long, and that is not "my place" in the earth. (not now anyway)

Will I be in the hands of your God? Thanks for sharing your opinion...cant say this is any consclusive point, but you, as others have a right to their belief.
The goal of this thread was to engage people in trying to find something substantial, not just the normal ideas passed around for generations. Again, I respect that you and others say I will find out once Im dead. But maybe you can respect I want to find out before hand. You are welcome on the journey also, or not...but it is a journey we all take alone...we pass each other on the path.

Peace

Dalen

[edit on 18-11-2006 by dAlen]

Originally posted by jinsanity
OP. The Soul exists. Try some astral projection and see it for yourself. And even hypnosis to find out your past lives.

The Spirit is the Cup. The Soul is what you put into the cup...

In a post that gets long, I know its hard to read through all the threads, so inevitably some things get repeated.
As far as near-deaths and astral projection, it has been suggested that this is just the mind projecting images. After all we see because the mind that is entrapped in darkness "sees".
The electrical signals that go to the brain gives the info for the brain to create the images.
Think of when you sleep, people who have used '___', or even the experience I have had naturally. (Im sure there is a link on this page, as well as the first post on page one)
So, we are not sure if its not just the brain playing tricks.
As for someone who is brain dead...they never came back to give a near-death experience.
I have watched someone at their death, and know what they look like from when the heart stops to when the brain dies. Your not dead until the brain goes.

Point is, no one can really prove (not that they have to), that the brain isnt the limit.
I "argued" the point that if you and I are really creative, then we must be able to make a choice that did not enter based upon what we know from stimuli (hearing, smelling, touching, seeing, our dna programming at birth.) There would have to be something independent.

Also, as far as the cup, yes in Judaism as well as Christianity, it appears we are like a cup to be filled. In Judaism the soul can enter even after a child is born, and some are "soul-less" (despite the argument you will get that everyone has a nefesh, etc.) so if someone is born without a soul, then gets a soul...they are like a robot container...the question is, do they know they are empty and when they are filled. Doubt it.

Again, I cannot prove any of my points, though I can bring up items for pondering.
Which I have done. There have been excellent post by people for the soul, etc.

Peace

Dalen

It was interesting when I posted this the replies I received.
I was surprised at the level of conversation that was able to be engaged in without "defensivness" coming out. It was actually of high calibre, and I appreciate it, as I posted on the top of this page.

As soon as I posted it, I felt that the post may somewhat start detracting from the subject.
And somewhat I have been correct.

The past couple of post toward the end have made assumptions, that if they have read through the thread, would not have been stated.

I understand it gets hard to follow a long thread, so for those about to post, please read this.

I am not asking anyone to Prove anything to me, or in other words, I dont expect anyone to prove anything. This really is about searching. Again, even if I did want someone to prove something, then I suppose it would be my right, as well as the individual right not to respond.

Point is, the type of responces that basically state that this thread is a waste...well it doesnt really contribute to the thread itself.

Also, I did open up the can of worms by inviting all...scientific view points, medical, paranormal, and even religion. With religion its tricky, as people tend to just believe it because its there.
I realize its there, and feel free to share it. But to come out and state as fact, without verifiable proof, that I will find out on my death bed as I stand before the Almighty creator, well...maybe yes, or maybe no. Again, the calibre of post is brought down.
One thing to share the opinion, but to state as "fact" based on belief, directed to an individual...isnt constructive as far as discussion, and wont change anyones view point I dont suppose. (not mine anyway, for what its worth.)

Thanks for reading this

Peace

Dalen

Can you prove there is not a Soul? The burden of proving there is not lies on you.

I absolutly believe we all have souls, however what you are asking of dAlen is impossible. One cannot prove a negitive or one cannot prove somthing does not exist. So the burden of proof is to prove it exist.

PS. If you care to look around there is plenty of scientific evidence for the existance of the soul.

actually science is starting to lean towards to existence of some sort of life after death. Many studies have been done by ER doctors who hear claims of NDE's and tested them. Furthermore, physics is slowly unveiling the mysteries of the interconnectedness of everything in the universe, and as we all know, you cannot destroy energy, it simply changes form. So soul, or consciousness, or whatever you want to call it does seem to have some sort of ability to survive biological death of our bodies.