The Soul does not exist (note to Mods at beginning)

No Body No Soul,

The body creates what we misslabel as a soul. Read my previous posts for clarification. ANd again are these bodies hooked up to scales as they are dying and the weight loss observed in real time? I doubt it. Show me a link or something. I say they mesure the bodies before death and then after and there is a weight loss. But again that weight loss can be attributed to other things than a soul leaving.

There are no souls flying around. And when you die thats it. sorry. You won't miss anything becuase you won't exist period. What we precieve and label as a soul is just a ghost in the machine...sorry. No real god, no real angels, no real satan, no real heaven, no real hell, no anything other than the universe. Souls are just the net effect of collective unconciousness principles. Like I said a simple concept and the phenomina probably appears in anything sufficienty developed in complexety. Sorry we are not special and thinking we have special souls is just a indulgence and perhaps fear of realising how small and insignificant in the scope of the universe.

Another thing to ponder...What happens when everybodies minds are connected to the internet in the near future. You will see the same collective unconciousness principles manifesting in the web, and it too will develop a soul...think about it people you are thinking of a soul from too narrow a scope and are missing the big picture. The soul is just what happens when multiple algorythems gets complex enough.

your getting the wrong idea that we don't use all of our brain. We do just not all at once nor could we. nueron bundels can only carry one message at a time and only in one direction, unless interestingly enough you are on THC which is a molecule that strangely allows nuerons to send signals back through the nueron in retrograde, but thats a whole other topic.

Becuase neurons are limited inherent in their design they send signals in pulses through the neuron bundle. Only a small percent of that bundle is crring the pulse the rest are inactive.

We can't have all 100% of the neuron bundles that make up the brain electrified at one time or no signal could flow and you would be totally incapacitated and the brain would be a totally useless appendage. Unfortunantly our brains although intergrated with other nuerological circuits are not integrated circuits like a true computer microprocessor and can't be electrified everywhere at once.

Originally posted by dAlen

Originally posted by etshrtslr

we all die...the point is after we die our soul or consciousness continues on without a physical body in another non physical demension.

Our physical existance here on this earth is an illusion created by our consciousness.

Consciousness is energy that can never be destroyed.....only the illusion is temporary.

- If noone comes back, there is no guarantee.
If we cant prove it with science and point with to the soul in this life, and if we "wait" till we die...by then its to late, we either have one or didnt.



Dalen

Well, you are made of matter right? Matter is energy, and when you "die" you just go from one form into another. Matter cannot be destroyed, it just changes into energy of some kind. Your brain is run by electrical impulses, this can be scientifically measured w/electrodes. That energy up there dosen't just "disappear", it goes somewhere...it might not stay coherant, but the energy that is YOU will always exist, and has always existed.

You are just a piece of the all-existing force of creation that created everything from itself. Hence the Bible claiming "God" made man in his own image...It's simplistic in trying to show that God = Human. Because all energy/matter is really one from the same...

video.google.co.uk...

I found this video quite interesting, I believe there is a soul/spirit through things i've experienced, but again, because of the nature of it, its not provable to anyone else because it can only be experienced by the individual. Scientists have calculated that there may be as many as 12 dimensions, 4 of them measurable, the other 8 cannot. The spirit resides within these. The brain is simply a computer for controlling the human body, the spirit doesn't exist there in my opinion.

Originally posted by MystikMushroom
Well, you are made of matter right? Matter is energy, and when you "die" you just go from one form into another. Matter cannot be destroyed, it just changes into energy of some kind. Your brain is run by electrical impulses, this can be scientifically measured w/electrodes. That energy up there dosen't just "disappear", it goes somewhere...it might not stay coherant, but the energy that is YOU will always exist, and has always existed.

You are just a piece of the all-existing force of creation that created everything from itself. Hence the Bible claiming "God" made man in his own image...It's simplistic in trying to show that God = Human. Because all energy/matter is really one from the same...

You are right. Science tells us that matter/energy cannot be created nor destroyed, it can be transformed from one form to another, ever existing, ever transforming. Now this fact will only prove that unconcious energy in our bodies survives past death, but is that the soul and the spirit?

What is the soul and the spirit? Does such a thing as a soul and spirit exist?

If there was no soul and spirit, then we would only be machines, we wouldn't have different emotions, and feelings, we would all be exactly the same. Some people might say that the experiences we go through in life makes us who we are, and in part they are right, but isn't it also right that we know of cases of for example twin brothers/sisters who have had the same experiences yet they are totally different?

In the outside they may appear exactly the same, but what is it that makes them different? What is it that gives us different emotions and feelings? What are emotions if not energy? then again, we go back to the fact that science shows us that "Energy and matter" cannot be destroyed or created, they are trasnformed from one form to another.

Why is it that you find for example children who have been raised in good families, yet they become the worse of criminals? The oposite is also true, there are people who have been born and brought up by really bad parents, yet some have become really good people.

We also know of cases where children have been born and since their parents can remember they have been extremely bad/evil, while others have always been good since childhood.

If those facts don't prove that there is a conciousness which survives the death of our physical bodies, then I don't know what does. Well...then again, if any of you have done any research on children who say they remember their past lives, and show proof by mentioning names and places which they have never been before, and all those children mention that they remember past lives, that would also be the proof that there is some concious energy which survives after the physical body dies.

Without a soul and spirit we would be only machines repeating everything everyday. We wouldn't have emotions and desires, our bodies wouldn't be reacting to any emotions or desires. We would be vegetables.

[edit on 17-11-2006 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by BASSPLYR
The body creates what we misslabel as a soul. Read my previous posts for clarification. ANd again are these bodies hooked up to scales as they are dying and the weight loss observed in real time? I doubt it. Show me a link or something. I say they mesure the bodies before death and then after and there is a weight loss. But again that weight loss can be attributed to other things than a soul leaving.

Why don't you explain what you are talking about here instead of swinging in the dark? What other things can the weight loss be attributed to?

Also the study on body weight was scientific and meets the requirements of the stuffy system which has trouble opening its minds to new ideas. You can find it quite easily by searching.

"The ultimate in optimism is believing there is no life after death." I forget the author of that and quite frankly, i'm not that big of an optimist.

I hope it's true. I hope that when we close our eyes for the final time and loose this mortal coil, it will be for an eternal sleep and peace will be all that we know.

I doubt it though. I think death will be the biggest surprise any one of us could have imagined.

I am your king.

All kidding aside, Pascal says all that lies beyond is Oblivion. He killed himself. William Sterling devoted a lifetime to preserving the ancient knowledge. He killed himself too. Fact is the truth for which you seek is too much to bear. That is why people turn to religion, it is a comforting thought in a cold hard Universe. But that is merely Maya too.

Only when you are able to face Oblivion will you know the answer. I wish you to grow strong enough so I may take you there, but I can go only so far. The rest of the journey is up to you.

Originally posted by denythestatusquo
What other things can the weight loss be attributed to?

I would like to see the data that shows a loss of weight at death that is attributable to the soul's leaving the body.

First of all, why would a soul have weight?

Second, even if one did verify a weight loss at death, why would one attribute it to something that is intangible and unverifiable.

What about dehydration?

Could evaporated moisture weigh less than a soul?

Worlds exist because we are souls.

The questions Souls are capable of researching is beound everything.

Soul is only a fragment of all our capacity. We are really part of somthing much larger - So If you belive there is no soul - Then obviously your correct.

If you belive your not a soul but an organisme - Then we could say - that we could get to an agreement on that one too.

I belive i am an soul cause i get affected by stuff around me.

--------------------------------------
FIRST QUESTION FOR YOU:

Why do you have memory installed in your - erm..what we call it - MEMORY.
How much your currently have installed 512MB?
--------------------------------------
Now if this affects you - Tell me what part of you it affected?

Hard questions somtimes.
Now feel the wind of emotions and you will know you can absolutly be a soul..like everyone else is a soul.

: Oh bugger - Now we go to that first step of realizing you are a soul... First - reason you are a soul is - Questions. Thought. memory. Works just like a computer somtimes.

But we have souls to express our poetry. Our Music. Our ART. So some of us are artists. We work with pictures and make nice grafic's..We are called the artist because we can make stuff pretty.

That is also a reason - for being a soul - or that the soul is real.

What else is the reasons for pretty design and pretty cars..? Sure a soul must have made the design ..

A soul is more like an intelligence. A cat has a limited expression of speech for exampel - But it still has a soul - a kind soul inside somwhere - telling it's own limitations. Why does a cat bite somtimes gently? That is another reason for a soul is present inside the Bio-sonic-body of the human shape. structur.

Some people even talk to animals - Speaking and the animal understands the concept of the conversation - Even if it is a dog we has on the agenda.

Lay down dog - Dog wanna go walking...?

We even name our dogs cats and other special animals - We give them human names for gods sake - lol*

[edit on 17-11-2006 by Ram]

you do have a soul.


it may not be what you "think" it is... but you have a soul.



you wont be able to figure out what a soul is, you just have to know, by using your intuition.. which is something you dont need a mind for.

you brain doesnt control what you do... YOU do. Your consciousness does.

and i know that i have a soul, becuase i have been conscious multiple times outside of my physical body, and still had memory, and was fully aware of my surroundings.


but yea... you have a soul.... without a doubt.

Just an Out of body experience..??
cool..

That is so far out... Did you faint or just when sleeping or..got knocked out by somthing?

[edit on 17-11-2006 by Ram]

To me, the soul does NOT equate to immortality, it equates to that certain part of us all that can feel love, express emotion, and give us a sense of self un-matched by any other creature on this planet.

My mother is dying from Cancer in a hospital. She isn't coming home. She has a couple of days to four weeks to live.

The thought of my mother dying at the age of 47 scares the hell out of me. I am only 26 and i feel ripped off. She has a soul that I feel will live on forever, wether you can prove it with science or not. Science failed my mother, and it wil continue to fail alot of people.

Science can NEVER prove the existence of the spirit or the soul because both of these elements of the human condition are traditionally thought to be above and beyond human understanding.

That is my take on the matter. I appreciate your thoughts and ideas, as it gives me a greater understanding and perspective on my own beliefs.

I thank you for your time and effort on raising this issue. Every person who has posted on this thread has gotten something from it.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by dAlen
Now, I cannot say 100% proof postivie that there isnt, or at least for some people that there is or is not a soul.

So, which is it?

In an early post, I brought up that in Judaism & yes in Christianity (same Bible) the concept of both soul-less and soul-ful beings are their. (or sons of satan and sons of God, but whose to say the sons of satan dont have a soul.) Again, I have not elaborated on that one point so it may not be all that clear.

By the way, thanks for the pic...was fun.

Peace

Dalen

Originally posted by denythestatusquo
I believe in reincarnation myself so the idea of living once is considered 'Luciferic' to me and not acceptable. The soul is perfected while living trials and tribulations whilst in the flesh.

I am interested in reincarnation also. (The concept is taught in Judaism and in Christianity...though the latter one would have to drop dogman and read the Bible for themselves with a fresh perspective to see it.)

My question is:
Reincarnation to what level? (and whats reincarnated...particles)
Technically when a body rots and feeds worms its particles, or whatever, are recycled.
Seriously though, Its like a water drop going into the ocean...it spreads to the ends of the world in billions of tiny particles never associating with the "group" drop again.

This would explain why we never remember anything, as we only have a fragment of the old particle in us.(call it soul, but I will use the term particle for this case scenerio)

In Judaism, there are 5 levels of soul (some people have less, supposedly).
Again, this level thing is suspect. Although one may claim that the higher self guides us.

In just normal reincarnation scenerio, I have an issue, where we die off, and the entire us comes back...as we dont remember squat. That sounds like a conspiracy so that wont learn anything and remain "slaves" of the earth system.

Peace

Dalen

Originally posted by clearwater
Well that takes the bop out of the she bop da do rah. How's about the 21 grams everyone loses at the moment of death.

What about all those 'dead' people and strange realms?
Of course that could just be wishful thinking.

Nah, they're not dead.
People don't die.

[edit on 17-11-2006 by clearwater]

About the 21 grams...I am very curious if this theory was published in a medical or science journal, and what amount of substance they have to it in regards to it being the soul.

Yeah, if there is not a soul, it kind of takes the wind out of the old sails, so to speak.

Peace

Dalen

Originally posted by reaganero

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong
Considering that there are some perfectly good corpses that are not walking around right now, i would assume (perhaps illogically) that they are lacking a soul, therefore aren't alive

i thought a soul was something that lives in the body and at the death it parts it leaving the body to dust.

See thats the point...no one seems to be able to pin point this "soul" in the body.
It seems that the soul is the neuro network in the brain. It makes us believe that there is more than the body, brain etc. The brain/body mechanism is quite a powerful setup...even much so that we separate mind & body. But all the division is an illusion. The body needs the mind as much as the mind needs the body, therefore any soul would need both as well, perhaps. Unless the soul isnt located in the body, and we are like a video game...some quantum illusion in the mind of God.

Or better yet, everything is microscopic models of something bigger.
i.e. we are the neuronet in Gods mind, the stars are the neuronet ina bigger Gods mind, the bigger God is part of a neronet in another Gods mind...see, into infinity.

Saw a post somewhere that showed a stargroup that looked like a double-helix DNA strands.
Who knows...into infinity both ways (up and down in size) we go.
People say plank scale is as small as you can go. Well go to the smallest level as if you are able to stand on that level yourself, then create a microscope and you can look forever into the depths of "infinite smallness", just as infinite "greatness".
Kind of blows the mind, like the concept of no beginning, but we must loose concepts that we have had as they are narrow. They are tools for the game we live in, such as time. Outside of time you have possiblities...just as you have infinity in sizes both great and small. (not sure how clear the last paragraph was, but thought I would give it a shot in explanation anyway.)

Peace

Dalen

Originally posted by ferretman2
What about the instances of people undergoing hyponosis and recalling past lives they have lived?

I have made reference to this ealier in the thread.
But the mind may be projecting pictures...its good at it.
The mind is surrounded by darkness, but is able to project the reality we see, by the electrical pulses its recieves from the eyes, etc. (the brain sees by the input from the eyes, etc.)

Just as when we dream it projects images...the brain has, well, an imagination, and look at people with '___' experiences, or my link to my experience in my first post of this thread. (natural)
It very well can just be the minds overactive imagination.

Peace

Dalen

Originally posted by Novise
Just adding how I feel deep down about all this. I think that my soul will go on, but I won't know anything about it. The lights will go out, my physical brain will turn to dust as they say, and the soul will move on. In essence, I belong to my soul, not the other way around.

A very humble, and perhaps precise way to view the soul.
If we are as unaware of the soul in this life, we surely will be in the next life.
Yet, there remains a slight possiblity that we will expand our consciousnes to accept infinite possiblities, so in a chance not really loosing ourselves. Let me clarify, you will loose the part you konw of now...as it will seem not real...not any of it, you sitting their typing that seems so real, will become as nothing. Again, see "my story", I have a link in my first post of this thread. It kind of goes along with what your suggesting.

Peace

Dalen

Originally posted by Serum39
Perhaps there is a fundamental flaw with your perspective... or perhaps this is just another perspective....

So much talk from many about "having/not having a soul". I know you don't have a soul. Nope. No way. But rather you ARE A SOUL WHO HAS A BODY!!!

Novel idea eh? See, if you HAVE something then you are essentially not that thing. In this case a soul. We dont own souls.. we ARE souls. And what we have is a physical manifestation, a vehicle in which we use to EXPERIENCE this "3-D reality". Kinda like exploring space. A place where the rules are a bit different then down here on earth. We as humans need a special vehicle to get to and explore/experience space. Same with the depths of our oceans; again special vehicle.

With that said, I make no mention of religion and the word "soul" is interchangeable... call it whatever you want. We shouldnt get hung up on the details. Its the fact we're asking questions and seeking truth.. OUR OWN truths that matter.

And if you want proof... you mean it's not obvious to you?

Peace

My perspective is flawed!
J/K

Seriously, I like how you surmised the situation. Kind of similar to the post above yours written by novice. Again, this would fit in with my story (ignore the title of the actual thread, the experience would kind of fit what you mention...the very end of the experience in the first posting of that thread.

Peace

Dalen