After looking into it on my own time and talking to others, I'm sure the Dulce base is NOT real. It's one of the great Myths of conspiracy investigation. Now, it taking up it's own little section of ATS. I don't mean to offend anyone, but we need to put this to rest. So I pose my question to this board:

With no Physical evidence of a secret base out in New Mexico, Where did this story about the Secret Dulce facility come from?

Dulce is Not real, but the Joker who invented this tall tale sure is! I want to know who created this runaway roumor!

Come on, I ready to Bust this myth Once and for All! So bring it on.

Tim

Originally posted by AFX237
You have heard of the dulce book right?

Are these reports? I'm not sure if this is meant to be fact or fiction.

Tim

In my opinion the Dulce story is real. I have no iron clad proof. I have shared what I know and who told it to me many times in many threads on ATS so I will not go through it again.

But as long as people make posts saying that the Dulce story is a fabrication or urban legend I will answer those posts to say "I believe the Dulce story is real".

I believe Bennewitz stumbled on something, something he wasn’t supposed to find. I read that he found some low frequency noise coming from a military base that he worked near. Apparently the sounds he discovered were connected in some way to a military project on the base and was then fed the Dulce story to put him off the real story.
I believe that a concerted effort was made to discredit Bennewitz and ridicule anything he said regarding the sounds he picked up from that base, something important enough for them to drive this poor guy crazy.
Will Moore had something to do with the feeding the Dulce story to Bennewitz, and that ultimately discredited Moore in the eyes of the UFO community.
All respect to John but the Dulce story in my opinion was fabricated to take Bennewitz's eye of the real secret, the low frequency noise that he picked up from the base with the equipment he designed and built himself.
Don’t take my word for it, do the research it’s all out there.

Originally posted by Janus

All respect to John but the Dulce story in my opinion was fabricated to take Bennewitz's eye of the real secret, the low frequency noise that he picked up from the base with the equipment he designed and built himself.
Don’t take my word for it, do the research it’s all out there.

As I mentioned in another thread, I was the one that published the "Dulce Papers". I made the pen and ink drawings from the originals which were drawn in pencil. The information that I copied from the original papers smuggled out was typewritten on my IBM Executive (the kind with proportional spacing.) Check it out. I stayed with Dr. Bennewitz and his wife at their home overlooking the Manzano Weapons Storage Area (Kirtland AFB) in the fall of 1987 for 2 days. I interviewed Col. Edwards (with Linda Moulton Howe), Gabe Valdez (drove an 8 hour 10pm to 6am shift with him) Jim McCampbell (who tape recorded an interview with Dr. Bennewitz about the Hansen incident) and Bill Moore. Dr. Bennewitz gave me the x-ray of Myrna Hansen's head showing the the chip and the photos he had taken of the dome shaped saucers operating from the MWSA. 2 other government employees confirmed the existence of Dulce one of whom told me he knew it as Section D.

Incidentally Gabe told me in detail about his search for the crash site of the nuclear ship on Archuletta Mt. He found the crash site. This was shortly after the Cash-Landrum incident.

You mentioned that that 'its all out there' regarding information on Dulce. No its not. Half of it is, but not all.

By the way, I was wondering what you thought about the SciFi Channels investigation of Dulce this week on SciFi Investigates and the hot spots?

Urban legend? Fabrication? Take your word for it? Thanks anyway.

My post wasn’t a criticism of you or your work John; I think you are sincere in your belief. Neither was my post an attempt to debunk Dulce. Im a sceptic not a debunker.
But a healthy dose of scepticism is required when dealing with something like Dulce, to me it has dis info directed at Bennewitz written all over it.
Im not saying that there isn’t something to the Dulce story, I believe there is, but I do believe that much of it was fed to the good Doctor in order to discredit him regarding the sounds he picked up on his equipment.
The sounds could have been anything MK-Ultra, Weapons testing and yes even communication with EBE's im not closed to that possibility either.
But the base story is too fantastic for me to believe everything about it, like the poster on Mulders wall says “I want to believe " but I find the base story too out there to be true.

You mentioned that that 'it’s all out there' regarding information on Dulce. No its not. Half of it is, but not all.

I’ve read everything on the Dulce papers that I could find from both points of view (believer and sceptic) but if there is something out there, something that you could share, id be happy to read it and give you my opinion on it (not that my opinion holds that much weight anywhere but I can assure you it would be an honest one)
but you must admit John the story is pretty fantastic.

By the way, I was wondering what you thought about the Sci-Fi Channels investigation of Dulce this week on Sci-Fi Investigates and the hot spots?

Im in the UK so if the program you mention is available elsewhere youtube, Google vid would you be able to point out where I could watch it? Id is interested in watching that program.
Again let me stress im not a debunker, I find the habit distasteful and counter-productive but I am a sceptic and I do have an open mind and im not going to take everything I read on the internet at face value.


[edit on 19-11-2006 by Janus]

Excellent to see some clarity on part of the Dulce issue, thanks Mr Lear. I have read a lot in books where you are frequently mentioned.
What you have written above has been added to my growing knowledge on the subject. You can and have shed so much light on otherwise dead-end Ufology subjects, and that's fantastic.

Dallas

Originally posted by Janus

But a healthy dose of scepticism is required when dealing with something like Dulce, to me it has dis info directed at Bennewitz written all over it.

In case you are not following the Serpo story Doty is toast. And you think the disinfo story against Bennewitz holds water? You don't need a healthy toast of scepticism, you need a healthy dose of reality.

Im not saying that there isn’t something to the Dulce story, I believe there is, but I do believe that much of it was fed to the good Doctor in order to discredit him regarding the sounds he picked up on his equipment.

By Doty and Moore? Lets see, who would you now pick as a pillar of honesty: Doty or Bennewitz?

The sounds could have been anything MK-Ultra, Weapons testing and yes even communication with EBE's im not closed to that possibility either.

When you have eliminated Doty from the mix you need to eliminate the supposed communications.

But the base story is too fantastic for me to believe everything about it, like the poster on Mulders wall says “I want to believe " but I find the base story too out there to be true. I'm not saying there isn't something to Dulce, to me it has disinfo against Bennewitz written all over it.

Please organize your thoughts and get back to us Janus. Eliminate Doty and Moore. Both for obvious reasons. Now. What part of Dulce don't you believe?

You mentioned that that 'it’s all out there' regarding information on Dulce. No its not. Half of it is, but not all.

I’ve read everything on the Dulce papers that I could find from both points of view (believer and sceptic) but if there is something out there, something that you could share, id be happy to read it and give you my opinion on it (not that my opinion holds that much weight anywhere but I can assure you it would be an honest one)
but you must admit John the story is pretty fantastic.

As I mentioned Janus, half of the information that is available has not been put out.
And no, I do not admit the story is 'pretty fantastic'. Dulce is real. Its there. And its operational.

Im in the UK so if the program you mention is available elsewhere youtube, Google vid would you be able to point out where I could watch it? Id is interested in watching that program.

You just told me you had read everything about Dulce. Now you say you haven't seen the SciFi program. You don't have to watch a video to get the SciFi info.

Again let me stress im not a debunker, I find the habit distasteful and counter-productive but I am a sceptic and I do have an open mind and im not going to take everything I read on the internet at face value.

Thanks for your post Janus. Please get back to this thread when you have someting to contribute.

Oh, by the way, for someone who isn't going to take everything he reads on the internet at face value you certainly seem to be abitrarily selective in what you're going to believe. How many times have you been to Dulce and how many personal interviews have you made with those involved? Or are you just trying to make a decision based on what you read on the internet?

A little testy John? You seem to be quite aggressive about the whole Dulce thing. What don’t I believe about Dulce? Well I don’t believe that the base is there, I don’t believe that there are little green men running around using our vital juices as food, I don’t believe that there are or ever have been intelligent reptoids on this planet I could go on but you get the picture.
I’ve tried to be polite John. I’ve even stated that there is something to the story. But the burden of proof isn’t on me; it’s on the people who propagate this story, that includes you.
Tell me why any sane person should believe this story? Because without proof, and I don’t consider drawings and internet fairy tales to be proof, that’s all it is, a mildly entertaining story.
Everything I put in my above posts was my opinion. You seem to have a thing about people respecting your opinion, please at least have the courtesy of respecting mine.
You are a well connected guy John and you contribute a lot of important things, your moon pictures for one, but really there is no need for your attitude towards a different point of view.
Ill leave you to your fantasies now, good luck to you. But I think ill keep my own council as to what I believe and what I do not.

Originally posted by Janus

I don’t believe that there are little green men running around...

"They aren't green..." Mac Brazel, July 1947

My biggest problem with the story is the lack of evidence for an existing facility.

- No set place: I can't pinpoint where this base is supposed to be

- No Area: Looking around New Mexico, I can't find any srange or unusual Restricted Areas. Noone in their right mind would hide something so secret in an area open to the public.

- Size: As big as some claim this facility is, how come no activity has been reported in the area? Surely people would work in suce a place and supplies would go in and out.

- No evidence of digging: If they built this thing underground, how did they dig it out. Dirt doesn't evaporate, it has to go somewhere.

A good theory, even a conspiricy theory, is based on provable facts. Area 51 is a story based on facts. It's easy to prove that there is a restricted area aroung Grrom Lake. We have Video and photographic evidence of starnge things in the area. You can see the signs that read WARNING: RESTRICTED AREA on the border. Dulce has a great story, Now where these Facts?

Is there Anything besides a second hand story to suggest that such a place exists?

Tim

Originally posted by johnlear
Dr. Bennewitz gave me the x-ray of Myrna Hansen's head showing the the chip and the photos he had taken of the dome shaped saucers operating from the MWSA.

John, I was wondering what ever happened to the x-ray and these photos of dome shaped saucers?

Originally posted by Ghost01
My biggest problem with the story is the lack of evidence for an existing facility.

- No set place: I can't pinpoint where this base is supposed to be

That's one of the more glaring errors, yes. Google Earth has given us an unprecedented chance to explore areas like this, and the more visible they are to us, the more of a sham that the story seems.

- No Area: Looking around New Mexico, I can't find any srange or unusual Restricted Areas. Noone in their right mind would hide something so secret in an area open to the public.

And there are "reportedly" airstrips and roads. We have images from places other than Google Earth (and countless commercial aircraft fly all through the airspace each day. So we have civilian and commercial and military images... and while I might believe some sort of conspiracy to edit the military stuff, I don't think it's possible for the Evyl Empyre to sneak up and zot every single tourist photo.

- Size: As big as some claim this facility is, how come no activity has been reported in the area? Surely people would work in suce a place and supplies would go in and out.

Lack of coroborating reports is another feature. You can compare the evidence with that for Area 51... known busses, known transport, known personnel... and heck, even lawsuits over certain deaths -- all coming out of A51, which we know to be a real R&D facility.

- No evidence of digging: If they built this thing underground, how did they dig it out. Dirt doesn't evaporate, it has to go somewhere

Or the biggie -- gravitational anomalies. They can find things as small as smugglers tunnels on the border with gravitational anomaly sensing. But nobody's found anything there.

There's a lot of evidence against this (including the reports of facilities (if memory serves) a mile deep underground... written by someone who has no knowledge of the geology of the area.

Originally posted by warpboost

John, I was wondering what ever happened to the x-ray and these photos of dome shaped saucers?

I loaned the x-ray to Ron Regehr and never got it back. Ron shows up on ATS from time to time. I saw him at the Crash Retrieval Conference last week.

The 8x10's I gave back to Chris Lambright who they belonged to. Chris shows up on ATS from time to time. I still have a couple of the 4x5's.

Originally posted by Indellkoffer

We lived out there for awhile and were somewhat surprised when the story came up (after we moved out of there.)

A battle was said to have taken place there between aliens and humans, though the time of this alleged encounter varies from the 1970s to the 1980s.

The altercation (it wasn't a battle) occurred in 1979. 44 of our top scientists were killed.

Some sources allege that horrific genetic experiments are conducted in lower levels of the facility (usually level 6 or 7, depending on the source); these levels are sometimes referred to as "Nightmare Hall."

That's just BEYOND stupid! We lived there, and so did a lot of OTHER people during that time. And somehow the whole town just missed noticing a huge battle was taking place there all that time? With troopships and stuff like that?

Like I say, it wasn't a battle and there were no troopships. The whole altercation lasted only a few minutes. As far as the whole town missing a huge battle there was no huge battle for them to miss.

Oh yeah. I want those dolts to show up at a meeting with all of us who lived there then and start explaining this. And show us just where this stuff took place.

I am not sure who you are calling a dolt, Indellkoffer, but there is a standard of friendship and exchange of ideas here on ATS. You are certainly welcome to disagree with the posts but not to start calling others names just because you disagree with their ideas. I will accept your apology in advance.

As far as showing up at a meeting to brief you on Dulce I would be willing to accept your offer. I would however request that you cover my expenses such as gas and hotel. As far as showing you where "this stuff took place" I doubt whether we could get a visitor's pass into Dulce. I know I couldn't.

The whole thing smacks of a hoax to sell sensationalist books.

I have never tried to sell anything about Dulce. The little packet of drawings and information I distributed in 1988 were done at my expense including the postage.

They're pretty badly written, and my (unkind) belief is that these books like the ones I read couldn't sell as science fiction (like the authors intended at first) and so they sold them to the Gullible Presses as nonfiction.

This is a very poorly written sentence. Nevertheless I agree that many of the Dulce stories are fabricated using part of the information I initially provided.

They're just lame. Have you read any? Really lame. The Serpo criticisms reminded me of the plot holes these things have.

You are repeating yourself but I think I understand that you are having trouble with the Dulce story. Most do.

Hello John,
you wrote: "I still have a couple of the 4x5's."
Maybe would you like to share these photos with us?