ATS = Altruism - Trust - Sincerity

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
It was specific to the notion that mass-market advertising may indeed be within our grasp.

Well, if that's what it means, I say, "Full speed ahead!"

I remember you being asked why you don't take a more direct approach considering the 'evidence' coallated (sp) on this site. And I respected the answer you gave at the time; that this is a discussion forum for all points of view. That has basically been reiterated here, and you have my full support.

This thread is weird however, as SkepticOverlord points out, I probably don't know whats been going on. What I can't understand is the reason for this thread. Are people seriously saying that the creators of such a fantastic resource shouldn't recieve some monetary gain for their efforts?

However, I'm not convinced I totally understand the situation. The reason being that the original post almost sounds like an apology...

Quitting Your Day Job

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
And let me make one thing clear... yes, I would like to make some money from ATS. Nothing would give me greater professional joy than to be fortunate enough to derive enough income from this outstanding community such that I could devote 100% of my efforts to it, and you the members. And I believe I can say the same for Simon and Springer. Right now, ATS is very far from that kind of revenue... but with some new effort... who knows.

If you and the partners could literally make ATS your "day job", I would be thrilled.

You would be able to put more time into it and really make this place blossom.

So add me to the list of people who would like to see ATS be a commercial success.

Not "commercialized" in the sense of losing sight of what makes ATS so special, but profitable and sustainable, because that will guarantee ATS will be here for us indefinitely.

I find that prospect far preferable to the all-too-common fate of boards that shut down because the admin(s) "didn't get enough donations" or "didn't have time for it anymore".

A strong, robust and viable business model is a much better way to go and benefits everyone who loves ATS.

Fund And Games

Originally posted by byhiniur
However, I'm not convinced I totally understand the situation. The reason being that the original post almost sounds like an apology...

If you were privy to the kind of abuse the owners of this website are subjected to, I think it would be clearer.

They are bombarded with constant and unrelenting attack from various critics, former members and general Internet malcontents on a scale unlike anything I've ever seen in two decades of online communication.

Several detractors (apparently neo-Marxists of some kind) hold up "profit motive" as a charge against the Amigos as if it were a bad thing, as if mortgaging their houses and spending their life savings to keep ATS running would somehow be morally superior.

It's not, and those who make such assertions don't impress me as the most mature or intelligent choices for advice when it comes to running a successful website.

If ATS can function as a profitable business, then everyone wins, especially those of us who enjoy taking advantage of all the wonderful benefits of ATS membership without ever having to open our wallets or offer anything more than an email address.

But there are those who disagree, and to them I offer this challenge: build and pay for a better discussion board and sustain it indefinitely without running it as a business or any source of funds.*

I would love to see someone pull that off.





*Making your mom and dad or the government pay for it doesn't count.

I think Springer is looking for more than that, which is why he laments that "we're making no money", but we're never sure what amount will change his tune.

I do.....

Fifty KABILLION DOLLARS!! (does dr. Evil look)

I think advertising is a great idea.. I can't wait for the day when ATS has TV commercials internationally.. or when I go to the airport and the big signs say "ATS" and what ever slogan added on..

You certainly have a GREAT site and deserve all the glory that ATS can bring you, the administrators are ever active and ever present in the boards.. which is a damn good thing because it shows you care and that you have an interest in what us peons are bickering about!

While we would have no where to go (as good as ATS anyways) to complain, to explain, to promote ideas or shoot them down, to gather together in paranoia and to free those who suffer from it.. to discuss the ethics of war to the conspiracies behind them, from serious political discussion, enlightening scientific explanations for phenomenons.. to fun and laughter in BTS threads, chat rooms and U2U's, regardless if you talk to greys, time travel, care only about Masonic conspiracies or 9/11, Middle Eastern politics or social issues ATS has something for everyone and a little group of good people for each so no one is left out or feeling unwanted.

I have been to big boards. All kinds of forums. All kinds of blogs. NEVER have I seen a site with DEDICATED members like ATS. Honestly, you can come on and you know there is multiple discussions going on at the same time for you to jump into.. the board is never empty, never stagnate, always some end of the world.. terrorist threat.. a new member claiming to be an alien to keep us coming back..

Which leads me to my final point.. with out the people ATS would be a desolate waste land like many other forums. ATS attracts the brightest and the most unique. ATS can honestly be called a community.

Just popping in to add my 100% support. Whatever you guys are doing has made ATS what it is today and for that, I owe you my gratiude. I trust you implicitly with ATS's future.

As for the "detractors"... Let me at 'em!

As long as this "new direction" doesn't mean obnoxious ads or big businesses trying to influence the direction/content/opinions of ATS, then I think it would be fine...surely you guys should be making some cash off this site after all the work you've put in. If I had worked my ass off for years building this discussion board, I would want it to pay off. There's nothing wrong with being "in it for the money" as well as the purpose. Just as long as the money never becomes the number one priority. I hope you guys can make it succesful as a business, and reap the rewards for your work.

One other thing about the advertising...this is just my opinion, and isn't meant as a criticism, but doesn't ATS have enough visitors to where you guys can loose some of those flashing/talking/annoying ads? Usually those are seen on low class sites where people are using the affiliate program to draw visitors to the site. This board already has so many consistent visitors, that it might be a lot more profitable (and tasteful for the viewers) to just draw up set rates for different banner advertisements, sponsors, etc, and make the businesses come to you to get their message out. I know that there are enough visitors to make this happen, although the wide range of topics on the board would make it a bit difficult for most companies to target the product interests of the readers. Maybe you already do have rates for advertising and you have been contacted by businesses, but the ads on here don't make it appear to be so...I definitely think that mass media advertisements could make a big difference in this regard, and you should do it.

Great idea
I just hope there is nothing that stops ATS from being because that would suck donkey D!
I heard that some new bill that might pass could stop free speech I hope it doesn't stop ATS.
It would be cool if you can make money I am all for it and if there is anything members can help with let us know because we might be able to help.

There have been times in the past where I have disagreed with what I perceived as new board "policy" or direction. However to be honest so far it has turned out for the best and everything is still good so I'm fully behind this. Just no more ads on the page! Anyway, I hope that once we go mainstream we can get more diversity in here, in all it's forms, but I also worry of having thousands upon thousand of new trolls.

not like we gotta pay 9.95 to use the forum

which rawks imo

Originally posted by Majic
Fund And Games


They are bombarded with constant and unrelenting attack from various critics, former members and general Internet malcontents on a scale unlike anything I've ever seen in two decades of online communication.

That IS surprising.

Sounds like sour grapes , to me.

I agree, M a j i c, as long as the basic values, proposed, are adhered to, What would be the defense of these detractors?

I never thought I'd join an online forum board, especially after seeing some of the others. But this unique place sucked me in, despite my misgivings.

And I never thought I'd be comfortable posting , but the streamlined features, and member helpfulness, has certainly allayed those fears.

Also, the recent foray into the old posts reminded me of how much (for the better) this place has changed/improved.

What would anyone have to bitch about??

I think UM_Gazz summed it up the best-

" ...imagine what we'd see if they could devote the majority of their work days to ATS.
Personally, I hope they get filthy rich."

You've got my vote , Amigos.

does this have anything to do with ats show for tv? does that what you are refering
to. [ mass-market advertising ] I hope so I cant wait to read some info about that! ats is worth way!!more to me than youtube and look what that just sold for.
you guys deserve lots and lots of money just from the knowledge I have learned
from this great site. keep up the good work.

HEY!!!

Everyone on here is aware that I am a die hard republican, so I only have two questions...

When are you going public?

And

Where can I get the stock?

GO GUYS GO...

Sometimes people forget that what is happening here is the AMERICAN DREAM!!!!

Make no mistake about it. We are witness and some small part of this venture that is a shining example of why Capitalism works. Why America is the greatest country on earth. (No insult intended or implied to our members from other countries.)

A small group of men and women set out on a dream. Launched a venture to live how they chose and do what made them happy. Sound familiar?

It became the United States.

It is becoming what ATS will be..

I am honored to be a small part.

Semper

The "Three Amigos" have spent countless hours building this site to what it is, including using their own money to fund this community. I think they deserve the make a profit, if not for all the work they've put in here, then at least for the money they've spent paying for all the costs out of their own pockets.

Originally posted by semperfortis
Everyone on here is aware that I am a die hard republican...

What!? You mean you aren't a diehard Libertarian like me?

The "Number" of dollars I would consider it to take for me to declare ATS is "Making Money" is equal to the combined monthly expenses SkepticOverlord, Simon Gray, William One Sac, ZeddicusZulZorander and I incur right now period.

The DAY this beloved experiment can cover that, allowing all of us to dedicate 100% of our varied and significant professional expertise to this wondrous site, I will GLADLY, OPENLY and LOUDLY proclaim that ATS is "Officially making money"!

Today, it just isn't close, it's not even in the same galaxy of the above.

We do have "detractors" out there (99.999% disgruntled former Members and staff who didn't "get it" and one utter, sociopath LOON) who decry EVERYTHING WE DO to improve the site as "Selling Out/In It ONLY for the money" ALL of these "detractors" have one thing in common, a COMPLETE misunderstanding of what ATS is, exactly. There's the rub for them, they know they love the idea but they can't fathom the ETHICS, RESPECT and TRUST REQUIRED to MAKE IT HAPPEN.

To those who fear some sort of ideological "takeover" by "interested investors" and or as yet unnamed "Corporate ghouls" I would suggest thinking about this logically. Imagine yourself an investor, you have a pile of cash that isn't making you any money so you want to invest it to get it making you money.

Let's say you decide to invest it in purple shoe laces because the whole bloody world is SCREAMING for purple shoe laces! Are you going to try to change the shoe laces to pink because you like pink better than purple after you spent all your money investing in purple shoe laces? Hell no you're not! If you wanted to do something THAT stupid you'd have simply started making pink laces, advertised the hell out of them, bought a couple "starlets" commercial time to make them fashionable and been DONE with it right?

I'll say it again...

ATS WILL NEVER BE TWISTED INTO SOME MEANINGLESS, COMMERCIAL PARODY OF ITSELF, EVER! ATS WILL NEVER BE A "PAY SITE" THAT REQUIRES A MEMBERSHIP FEE.

ATS will NEVER be covered in advertisements, matter of fact, if our plans work out the site will have LESS ads in the future than it has now!

S.O.'s comment about "mass marketing" means we will be mass marketing ATS, in other words, you'll be likely to see commercials FOR ATS on your favorite TV program or on the internet, on the "BIG DADDY" sites.

The reality is we have taken ATS just about as far as it can go with what we are able to give it. It's been the benefactor of tens of thousands of dollars, many thousands of hours of work and the unwaivering LOVE of the THREE AMIGOS, ADMINS, SUPER MODERATORS, MODERATORS, FSMEs, COUNCILORS and of course the REGISTERED MEMBERS and it has gone FAR, farther than we thought it would.

Recently we made a decision that ATS is WORTH THE EFFORT to see how far it can go.

There will be those who will pull from this effort one thing and one thing only, "the Three Amigos are only in it for the money" or "The Three Amigos sold out", if the former were the case we would have dropped this effort LONG AGO, if the latter were the case we would be the dumbest men on the planet. I would NOT come back to ATS if I EVER saw a distinct "agenda" being pushed in the ways the typical site pushes an "agenda". The Membership of ATS is WAY TOO ASTUTE for those kind of lame attempts and would see through it in hours.

So here we are, VERY EXCITING TIMES lay ahead on the ATS path, I thinks it's a superlative testament to what WE have done here to have the "serious internet money" crowd interested in supporting the mission/vision that is ATS. Most who read this will come along with us and reap the benefits, some will move on, some will be standing at the ready to decry the great experiment as something it is not in the hope of distracting the honest and pulling them in another direction.

No matter what happens, it has been my personal PLEASURE and HONOR to have been "in the thick of it" to this point.

Springer...

[edit on 11-16-2006 by Springer]

sweet.


and let the haters hate, it's what they do.

I do have a question regarding ATSNN then. Do you think that some point and time, in the future, that there could be the possibility you start actually having people that report news, like give video feed of something going on?

I mean how much more direct could people want it? Some member of the site going out and literally going to the news to record it for us first hand. My only wonder is would it become what we hate (fox news, cnn, and other), which have a reporting bias? Or would it stay true to the same standards we hold for all members reporting news now, that unbias or not accepted?

Also may we in the future see member voted, sponsored research. As in a poll is set up of big conspiracies we think need to be solved. Then we get some of the best researchers on the site (I can think of a few right off the bat), who will actually get together and research it using some funds that could be set aside for it? An ATS research team. Whats most interesting about the idea is that people constantly come here and do research. In a sense its almost like they are gunning for the spots when they open because obviously our best researchers on the site would be the people doing it.

Im just spitting ideas out of my head that probably could not be done without some sort of financial support, which, is where most people fail when investigating. A good amount of people simply don't have the money to devote to heavily researching a conspiracy.

Like I said, merely spitting out ideas for the future that might help growth and what not. Wrote whatever came to mind, disregard if its un-do-able.

Hey guys -

GO FOR IT!


...May you all become wealthy beyond your wildest dreams.

I hope you can keep ATS altruistic, trustworthy and sincere while you're at it - and I know that if things don't work quite the way they should, you will keep dancing, re-configuring and morphing right along.

May your grand experiment continue to succeed.




.

From a relatively new member and slightly-longer browser ...
Despite the fact that ATS is ATS, a forum for topics plausible and preposterous, serious and comic, eclectic and enlightened, trite, menacing and juvenile posts are conspicuous in their absence. I image that is partly due to the diligence of moderators, and partly due to the fact this is not just another myspace timekiller. Posters appear genuiniely concerned and curious. Commercialization that would simply expand ATS (the BBS or other venues) with its current personality would be an outstanding accomplishment and due reward to the founders. The reasonably intelligent user can easily block and ignore more advertisements. However, if commercialization only raises the noise threshold of this board by attracting pre-pubescent squatters or makes it the Katie Couric of conspiracy sites, the utility of this site would probably be diluted to the point that the contributors who make it what it is would head for the proverbial survivalist shelters. And the readers would follow suit. Cut to scene of ghost town with tumbleweed blowing past piles of discarded Red Bull cans, "Friends" box sets, and 'Carson Daly for President' poster. Regardless of business strategy it is the investors' (creators') right to do whatever the heck they want. Hopefully it is a strategy that makes them ISS vacation rich AND preserves the institution of ATS.