God forgot one minor detail

Originally posted by TheBandit795

Originally posted by glan

Originally posted by TheBandit795
Like I've said numerous times. Satan has been adopted by christianity. Satan comes from the zoreastrian religion where he was created/concocted...

And that's exactly what he/she/it want's you/us to believe.

Yeah I've heard that too many times...

Read these two.

www.religioustolerance.org...

www.religious-studies.info...

Didn't get a chance to read all of it, but here a reply that should sum it all up.

Revelation 12
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.


Job 2:1-13
1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
2 And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.
4 And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life.
5 But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face.
6 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.
7 So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.
8 And he took him a potsherd to scrape himself withal; and he sat down among the ashes.
9 Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die.
10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.
11 Now when Job's three friends heard of all this evil that was come upon him, they came every one from his own place; Eliphaz the Temanite, and Bildad the Shuhite, and Zophar the Naamathite: for they had made an appointment together to come to mourn with him and to comfort him.
12 And when they lifted up their eyes afar off, and knew him not, they lifted up their voice, and wept; and they rent every one his mantle, and sprinkled dust upon their heads toward heaven.
13 So they sat down with him upon the ground seven days and seven nights, and none spake a word unto him: for they saw that his grief was very great.


Revelation 12
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

NOTICE WHERE SATAN WAS CAST OUT FROM, AND THEN IN JOB WHERE SATAN WAS WALKING TO AND FRO.

great post awesome topic

The serpent wasn't "Satan" sheesh.

Read your Bible Christians.


Genesis 3

1 Now the serpent was more subtle than any other wild creature that the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God say, 'You shall not eat of any tree of the garden'?" 2 And the woman said to the serpent, "We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden; 3 but God said, 'You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.'" 4 But the serpent said to the woman, "You will not die. 5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." 6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate; and she also gave some to her husband, and he ate. 7 Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves aprons. 8 And they heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the LORD God called to the man, and said to him, "Where are you?" 10 And he said, "I heard the sound of thee in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself." 11 He said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten of the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?" 12 The man said, "The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me fruit of the tree, and I ate." 13 Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this that you have done?" The woman said, "The serpent beguiled me, and I ate." 14 The LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, cursed are you above all cattle, and above all wild animals; upon your belly you shall go, and dust you shall eat all the days of your life. 15 I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel."

The serpant was the lizard alien and not satan.

Satan is the god of the lizards and others.

Satan is the physical universe.

God did warn humans about the lizard/snake.

Humans did desire the eating of physicality the carnality the sensate.'

This is good and bad.

Good to learn hard lessons fast and accelerate the evolution of the soul through the densities.

Bad in that taking the wrong' road to lead to a soul being lost to the army that supports satan.

Am I right Dany?

God created the Earth, Animals, and Plants. He then created in his own image Adam And Eve. 'In his own image' means he made them aware of decision making and the ability to distinguish between good and bad choices. But with this abilty he also gave them some boundry's and rules.
Satan, the serpent or what ever it was, was an analogy for the 'choice' that Adam and Eve had. The Choice between right and wrong.
Unfortunately Eve and then Adam Made the wrong choice, Knowingly.

Glan, revelations was written centuries after the zoroeastrian religion existed...

Originally posted by THENEO
The serpant was the lizard alien and not satan.

Satan is the god of the lizards and others.

Satan is the physical universe.

God did warn humans about the lizard/snake.

Humans did desire the eating of physicality the carnality the sensate.'

This is good and bad.

Good to learn hard lessons fast and accelerate the evolution of the soul through the densities.

Bad in that taking the wrong' road to lead to a soul being lost to the army that supports satan.

Am I right Dany?

I don't think it has anything to do with "right" or "wrong", Genesis reads more like a description of events than preachy propaganda.
And I don't know where you got the idea that humans desired the knowledge of carnality, I'm sure they already had that knowledge, what they got from eating the fruit was a conscience, so whether the eating of the fruit was a bad or good thing is entirely subjective on the way you view the world.
Also God did not warn Man of the serpent, all he said was do not eat this fruit from this tree, and gave no reason for it.
Also the serpent told the truth, their eyes were opened and they did become akin to God, they gained wisdom.
God cast Man out because Man was no longer a 'pet' in his garden, he was almost equal to God, apart from not being immortal, which God keeps as his own private toy and guards it jealously and violently.
God doesn't know what he is doing, the Garden of Eden was a playpen, he curses indiscriminantly, falls into fits of depression when his creation uses its free will, coerces people into war, etc.
The serpent is the Kundalini, the coiled energy that lies within the base Chakra, the activation of which leads to further enlightenment.
It is also Leviathan (both Kundalini and Leviathan mean "coiled").
If there is a "God" then it is NOT an almighty, all powerful, all knowing being, because if you believe in the book that he is supposed to have written himself then you must believe that when he said that we became his equal that he was telling the truth.
Satan is just another one of these creatures whom is God's rival. He is neither "good" or "evil", in the same way that you and I are neither "good" or "evil".
Think of God as your president, although everything you hear from the president's group show him to be completely infallable and good, we all know that he is human, just like everyone else and has his faults, no amount of propaganda can stop him from making an awful stink when he goes to the toilet.
Take Satan as the leader of a rival country, say Russia. Now everything you hear from your president's group says that this Russian leader is Evil, vicious, vile and nasty, yet he too is a human being and therefore despite his faults, has many good points, like say, being a wonderful father, taking care of his countries people etc.
It's all propaganda, if you are only ever told one side then you're more likely to believe the person telling you, but when you hear the other side, it first raises opposition, then doubt, then finally understanding.
Satan isn't all Evil, God isn't all Good, get over it.

You said,
"God ....forgot to mention that he had created an advanced reptile of some kind that could speak to the humans and trick them quite easily. The advanced form of reptile was obviously more intelligent or knowledgable than humans and easily manipulated them.


Very interesting point! Let's see if we can find an answer to it.
Genesis 1:19 God brings all the beasts He has created to Adam to see what he will name them. It seems that the one naming is apt to be more intelligent than the thing named. Also, though it is said of the serpent that he was the most clever of the beasts created (Gen 3:1), Adam was not one of the created beasts.

Maybe the newness of his creation makes Adam seem more ignorant of the way of things than his having been created in God's image would seem to warrant? You are really making me think here, Aztec. Maybe we have confused innocence with ignorance?

By the way, love your mural...reminds me of the huge ones in the barrio in San Diego.

Originally posted by binyanpiel
You said,
"God ....forgot to mention that he had created an advanced reptile of some kind that could speak to the humans and trick them quite easily. The advanced form of reptile was obviously more intelligent or knowledgable than humans and easily manipulated them.


Very interesting point! Let's see if we can find an answer to it.
Genesis 1:19 God brings all the beasts He has created to Adam to see what he will name them. It seems that the one naming is apt to be more intelligent than the thing named. Also, though it is said of the serpent that he was the most clever of the beasts created (Gen 3:1), Adam was not one of the created beasts.

Just wanted to mention that your comment has started digging you into a hole. Yes, Adam named the animals, but he also named Eve. I hope your stance is not that men are more intelligent than women. If it is, there's a couple thousand years worth of evidence to refute that idea.

You said, "Just wanted to mention that your comment has started digging you into a hole. Yes, Adam named the animals, but he also named Eve. I hope your stance is not that men are more intelligent than women. If it is, there's a couple thousand years worth of evidence to refute that idea."

Digging myself into a hole? How is that, Jezebel? Is it something you think I should be concerned about?
The post I was responding to had to do with the serpent and Adam, not Adam and Eve. When Adam named the animals, the implication is he named the species, ie antelope, etc, not individuals. However, the woman was not among those he named, (Gen 2:20) "...But for Adam there was not found a helper comparable to him." So God created woman out of Adam's rib; and it is written that He "brought (the woman) to Adam. She was already called "woman" before Adam saw her then, and when Adam said..."She shall be called woman, because she was taken out of Man". it seems likely Adam was speaking what was told him by God, since he was asleep when she was created from his rib. It was not until after the serpent lead the woman into disobedience to God and He had said of her that "Your desire shall be for your husband" that Adam "called" her Eve (Gen 3:20).
Before the fall, she had been created a "comparable" creation to Adam, and set to tend the garden with him in unquestioned equality. Now she would be the mass producer of other people through sorrow and pain. The original focus had changed dramatically...now Adam would be scratching a living from unfavorable ground and "would rule over her". The unity which they had had in Eden was lost. His "naming" of her almost seems ironic in the face of so much loss, as if he were using this name to mark the great difference in their relationship. Very sad and it certainly does not seem to lead to the conclusion that Adam was more intelligent than Eve because he gave her that name.

As for your statement "If it is, there's a couple thousand years worth of evidence to refute that idea."
Do you really mean "evidence" that women are not less intelligent than men? Or, is it that in your "opinion" women are more intelligent than men? Would that be a hole also?

...metaphorical.

Adam and Eve represent the evolution of man from primordial soup to bi-pedalism. Eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is the point at which humans gained self-awareness and free will.

The rest is history...literally.

[Edited on 11/19/2003 by AlwaysRight]

Originally posted by Aztec
God created the earth and heavens by dividing the waters. Then he created man and woman and told them that every living creature was for their food and the earth was theirs to subdue.

He forgot to mention that he had created an advanced reptile of some kind that could speak to the humans and trick them quite easily.

The advanced form of reptile was obviously more intelligent or knowledgable than humans and easily manipulated them.

If God knew that there was an advanced life form in the garden of eden also, then why didn't he warn the humans to watch out for it so that they wouldn't be manipulated by it.

Obviously the bible isn't telling the whole story?

For a minute there; I thought you were talking about David Icke's reptilians.

Has anyone read any of the Gnostic Gospels or Forgotton Books of Eden, like the Book of Adam and Eve, which describes Lilith???

And there were only like 3-5 people on Earth when Yahweh gave Cain the Mark so no one else would harm him. Who else could hurt him if he's banished from the only people on Earth???




ONE

I see that story much as a parent would tell a child a story, so that they could understand on their own level.

Take the nursery rhyme ring around the rosy for example, it was all about the black plague, yet most people dont remember that, its just a song and they still sing it in schools today.

Many biblical stories were created so that we could understand it on our own intellectual level

Originally posted by binyanpiel
You said, "Just wanted to mention that your comment has started digging you into a hole. Yes, Adam named the animals, but he also named Eve. I hope your stance is not that men are more intelligent than women. If it is, there's a couple thousand years worth of evidence to refute that idea."

Digging myself into a hole? How is that, Jezebel? Is it something you think I should be concerned about?

I made the remark as a joke based on your statement that "It seems that the one naming is apt to be more intelligent than the thing named."

You did not specify a length of time for which your statement was valid. It just struck me as funny, since Adam also named woman Eve.

Your belief that men became the "rulers" of women ("The original focus had changed dramatically...now Adam would be scratching a living from unfavorable ground and "would rule over her"), in a literal sense is the same ideology that has allowed for the abuse of women for the length of human history.

I think that the reference to women being subject to men is actually talking about the fact that, since procreation was now a concern, a woman has to "submit" or surrender herself to a man sexually. A woman receives the seed of a man, in order to have children. Therefore in order for a woman to procreate she must offer herself up to the man.
I believe this may have been sexual instructions from God to Adam and Eve.

As for your statement "If it is, there's a couple thousand years worth of evidence to refute that idea."Do you really mean "evidence" that women are not less intelligent than men? Or, is it that in your "opinion" women are more intelligent than men? Would that be a hole also?

Nice try, but no, I am not a hypocrite. I don't think there is a difference between the intelligence of men and women, though we do think differently. mOjOm and I often arrive at the exact same conclusions or answers about things, but by completely different means.
Men and women are designed to be an equalizer or balance for each other. The yin to the yang, if you will. In order for either sex to exist the other one has to. If the world was controlled solely by men, it would be an aggressive, warring, chaotic place. Oh wait, it is. Women were intended to be the nurturing, caring, empathetic balance to that. Neither one is superior to the other, just different.
Once humans realize that all people are equally valuable and stop trying to suppress each other, we will be able to make the world a beautiful place again.

you said in part "Once humans realize that all people are equally valuable and stop trying to suppress each other, we will be able to make the world a beautiful place again. "

"All people are equally valuable" and "I am not a hypocrite" really don't go together very well, Jez.
As for "we will be able to make the world a beautiful place again"? Again? so "we" made it the first time? Ever see anyone create dirt?
Wish I had more time this am to get into the rest of your stuff, but I don't

Originally posted by binyanpiel
you said in part "Once humans realize that all people are equally valuable and stop trying to suppress each other, we will be able to make the world a beautiful place again. "
"All people are equally valuable" and "I am not a hypocrite" really don't go together very well, Jez.

Ok you've got me stumped...I did not make those statements together, so why would they need to go together? You asked if I thought women were more intelligent than men, and if that would also be digging a hole. The implication was that you were trying to catch me in something I meant but hadn't said. Therefore, the phrase "I am not a hypocrite" was just a sarcastic way of saying "No, I wasn't implying that women are more intelligent." The next sentence was " I don't think there is a difference between the intelligence of men and women, though we do think differently." I did not say"Once humans realize that all people are equally valuable and stop trying to suppress each other..." until the last paragraph and it was a separate thought.

Originally posted by binyanpiel As for "we will be able to make the world a beautiful place again"? Again? so "we" made it the first time? Ever see anyone create dirt?

What are you talking about? How do you get re-creation of the earth from my saying that stopping oppression could start to make the world more beautiful? Obviously, one does not equal the other. It was not a purely physical reference. I was talking about the relationship people have to each other and the rest of creation. I do believe that we could effect change to our existence if we could ever get beyond all of our personal hang ups and try living in harmony with it intstead of trying to change it to meet our perception of harmony. "If we stop suppressing each other then maybe we can start to make the emotional and spiritual enviroment more beautiful to exist in." Is that better?

There are some things I'd enjoy discussing with you about your last post but this is getting us nowhere on the question of whether God made a "mistake" in not warning Adam and Eve about a creature called a serpent, who Aztec asserted was more intelligent than Adam.
You have indicated you believe women and men to be equal in intelligence, I think that was your drift...but do you think the serpent was more intelligent than the man? Or do you think our idea of innocence equaling ignorance is to blame for that theory?

(And I'm not really sure how we got off into the politically correct statements concerning relief from oppression, or was it suppression, making a better environment/world/earth or oh, well, I didn't copy it and now I don't remember your wording...so let's just let that go.)
And what about that name he stuck her with? Mother of all living? Where did he come up with that when there were no babies yet?
As for your problem of being stuck because I paired your statement..."I am not a hypocrite" with your evaluation that "all people are equally valuable", I suppose that would be because I found your assertion that "all people are equally valuable" a tad bit hypocritical but maybe I was wrong: Let's see, can you say truthfully that any person on earth is as valuable as someone in your own family?
Ok,Jez, will be looking for your reply

Originally posted by binyanpiel

You have indicated you believe women and men to be equal in intelligence, I think that was your drift...but do you think the serpent was more intelligent than the man? Or do you think our idea of innocence equaling ignorance is to blame for that theory?

I think that if Adam,Eve, & the "serpent"had really existed, like they did in the story, then God has a sick sense of humor. Adam & Eve could not have known or understood that they were being tricked, since prior to eating from the "Tree of the KNOWledge of Good & Evil"they wouldn't KNOW what deceit was, That wouldn't happen until after they ate

Originally posted by binyanpiel
And what about that name he stuck her with? Mother of all living? Where did he come up with that when there were no babies yet?

Well, she had been told she would now suffer in childbirth, so they would have been aware that she was going to bare children. If they were unaware that others existed, then he would have thought of themselves as the source of all the rest of mankind, I suppose. I think the story was a metaphor, written so people would understand a message.

Originally posted by binyanpiel
As for your problem of being stuck because I paired your statement..."I am not a hypocrite" with your evaluation that "all people are equally valuable", I suppose that would be because I found your assertion that "all people are equally valuable" a tad bit hypocritical but maybe I was wrong: Let's see, can you say truthfully that any person on earth is as valuable as someone in your own family?

Yes, I do believe other people are just as valuable as the members of my family. Maybe not to me, but that is why humans can't honestly judge whether someone is more or less valuable than someone else. We are, by nature, biased in our judgements of others.

Originally posted by Aztec
God created the earth and heavens by dividing the waters. Then he created man and woman and told them that every living creature was for their food and the earth was theirs to subdue.

He forgot to mention that he had created an advanced reptile of some kind that could speak to the humans and trick them quite easily.

The advanced form of reptile was obviously more intelligent or knowledgable than humans and easily manipulated them.

If God knew that there was an advanced life form in the garden of eden also, then why didn't he warn the humans to watch out for it so that they wouldn't be manipulated by it.

Obviously the bible isn't telling the whole story?

No no no here is where you were wrong. The reptile was not smarter than man.

God said you can eat of everything, every fruit in the garden but the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

The Serpant said, if you eat of this tree you will have the knowledge of good and evil.

What God specifically said was, do not eat from this tree unless you want the knowledge of good and evil.

God essentially gave Adam and Eve the ability to decide to evolve a conscious or comprehension of good and evil. Than do so at the time Adam and eve did not know sin but they didn not comprehend the ability to do and know Good things or know God is good. Even though they were perfect they had no understanding of Good in the universe. SO they sinned and by understanding the act, they earned the ability to comprehend Gods goodness and as a penalty experience or understand sin.

Originally posted by Aztec
God created the earth and heavens by dividing the waters. Then he created man and woman and told them that every living creature was for their food and the earth was theirs to subdue.

He forgot to mention that he had created an advanced reptile of some kind that could speak to the humans and trick them quite easily.

The advanced form of reptile was obviously more intelligent or knowledgable than humans and easily manipulated them.

If God knew that there was an advanced life form in the garden of eden also, then why didn't he warn the humans to watch out for it so that they wouldn't be manipulated by it.

Obviously the bible isn't telling the whole story?

But he did.

He said not to eat from the tree!

he knew that the devil would try to do such a thing

he even knows what you will do tommorow and when

you and i will die.