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why? The Question I Ask You.

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posted on Nov, 19 2006 @ 01:19 AM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
and yet, what also seems to be human nature is: a sense of belonging and acceptance by our peers. unfortunatley, in homing in on our skills of empathy many people tend to test the "boundries" of others and ultimatley end up looking in the mirror one day and realizing that they define themselves by the fears of others, because the feedback we receive from others does offer us feedback concerning ourselves. so, if we (people in general) have a sense of empathy and love, and also of fear (dominant factor i believe) and a need for acceptance and belonging, these characteristics of our personality may not be promoting self-preserve, but in fact working against our health and mental well-being, perhaps.


in nature, which survived longer? The lone wolf or the wolf pack? In nature which survived better, the human tribe or the lone man?




posted on Nov, 19 2006 @ 01:52 AM
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Originally posted by grimreaper797

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
and yet, what also seems to be human nature is: a sense of belonging and acceptance by our peers. unfortunatley, in homing in on our skills of empathy many people tend to test the "boundries" of others and ultimatley end up looking in the mirror one day and realizing that they define themselves by the fears of others, because the feedback we receive from others does offer us feedback concerning ourselves. so, if we (people in general) have a sense of empathy and love, and also of fear (dominant factor i believe) and a need for acceptance and belonging, these characteristics of our personality may not be promoting self-preserve, but in fact working against our health and mental well-being, perhaps.


in nature, which survived longer? The lone wolf or the wolf pack? In nature which survived better, the human tribe or the lone man?


nature has not finished the story. so, perhaps the answers to those questions either do not exist yet, or the answers to those questions only exist within the realms of the mind that permitted the conscious mind to ask them?

"in nature, which survived longer? The lone wolf or the wolf pack? In nature which survived better, the human tribe or the lone man?"

none of the above?
ants probably fair rather well, i suspect.

[edit on 19-11-2006 by Esoteric Teacher]



posted on Nov, 19 2006 @ 11:47 AM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
nature has not finished the story. so, perhaps the answers to those questions either do not exist yet, or the answers to those questions only exist within the realms of the mind that permitted the conscious mind to ask them?

"in nature, which survived longer? The lone wolf or the wolf pack? In nature which survived better, the human tribe or the lone man?"

none of the above?
ants probably fair rather well, i suspect.

[edit on 19-11-2006 by Esoteric Teacher]


not which survived indefinately lol. Longer meaning the man alone survived a week, the pack survived 100 years. Why? Because 1 man cannot hunt as well as a pack can, cannot build as fast, and overall is simply not as efficient.

Groups have worked better then loners all throughout the history of human beings, thats why we are the way we are today.



posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 01:05 PM
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Grimm,
I think i have a response to your intro-post you may like, perhaps not entirely agree with, but you may like it.

Again, thanks for making me think!



Originally posted by grimreaper797
why? The Question I Ask You.

Why? That is my question.

Why is the question I ask.



Your answer:

Originally posted by grimreaper797
"what will I ATTEMPT to do next?"


My answer to the question that you say is the finality of all efforts:

What will i attempt to do next?

1) Ask the next logical question.
2) Disconver all possible logical answers to that question.
3) Who is capable of permitting me to share all possible answers to that question?
4) What is the next logical question/questions?



Our greatest flaw is our lack of logic at a young age.


so we never started at the beginning, rather from the inheritance of lack of love for the truth, our starting point from birth which defines us and how our perception integrates reality.



posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 01:21 PM
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Our greatest flaw is our lack of logic at a young age.


No - worse than that is when we have no more logic or reason at 48 than we did at 8.



posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 02:37 PM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
Grimm,
I think i have a response to your intro-post you may like, perhaps not entirely agree with, but you may like it.

Again, thanks for making me think!


interested to hear it.

and thank you too.




Originally posted by grimreaper797
why? The Question I Ask You.

Why? That is my question.

Why is the question I ask.



Your answer:

Originally posted by grimreaper797
"what will I ATTEMPT to do next?"



hmmm no. My initial post was a trick question to an extent. All the whys lead to no truth of revelence was my point. They shouldn't at least. If they do, you may want to think them over.

The answer to the creation of the universe should intrigue you very much, but the answer shouldn't change you. If it does, your being, I wouldn't call it brainwashed, but confused as to what it means to change.

You dont change because of external sources. Only an internal understanding of the situation may change you. The bible cannot change you. The bible may lead you to ponder about why you are who you are, and you may realize a flaw about yourself you don't like simply because it disagrees with who you are.

If the way you live disagrees with the bible, so you change your actions, the bible didn't change you. Your still the same person, just acting differently.

Catching my drift?



My answer to the question that you say is the finality of all efforts:

What will i attempt to do next?

1) Ask the next logical question.
2) Disconver all possible logical answers to that question.
3) Who is capable of permitting me to share all possible answers to that question?
4) What is the next logical question/questions?


and when there are no more logical questions to be asked, I ask you the one that remains:
What will you do next?





Our greatest flaw is our lack of logic at a young age.


so we never started at the beginning, rather from the inheritance of lack of love for the truth, our starting point from birth which defines us and how our perception integrates reality.


I would say we know the truth of ourselves at birth, and then the world we are introduced to blinds us from it. The journey is becoming old enough to reason, then figuring out how to disregard everything you were told was true.



posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 02:43 PM
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Originally posted by grimreaper797



My answer to the question that you say is the finality of all efforts:

What will i attempt to do next?

1) Ask the next logical question.
2) Disconver all possible logical answers to that question.
3) Who is capable of permitting me to share all possible answers to that question?
4) What is the next logical question/questions?


and when there are no more logical questions to be asked, I ask you the one that remains:
What will you do next?


The opposite of what my dna says to do.
So then i re-program my dna.
then i see that the truth either was or was not:
"what will i do next".



posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 02:52 PM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
The opposite of what my dna says to do.
So then i re-program my dna.
then i see that the truth either was or was not:
"what will i do next".


What is worth doing to you? Questioning always has an end, it does not last forever. Eventually there wont be any more questions to ask (other then the one Ive given).

Whats a life of questioning worth? If there are no more questions to you cease to have a reason to exist? I don't believe so.

I believe we always have a reason for being. What is something that last forever, and there is no end to? Something worth living for? Well for me its love.

Dont misinterpret what I mean by love or assume. Think about it, and make sure you are sure that you are understanding what love truely is.



posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 05:04 PM
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Originally posted by grimreaper797

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
The opposite of what my dna says to do.
So then i re-program my dna.
then i see that the truth either was or was not:
"what will i do next".


What is worth doing to you? Questioning always has an end, it does not last forever. Eventually there wont be any more questions to ask (other then the one Ive given).


But i honestly feel if you knew this was the last question that "TRUTH" could ask, then certainly you would have knowledge of every other question, and every answer to every question ever percieved.

So, i feel unless you have all other questions formulated, and all possible answers to all questions that do, have, or ever will exist, then your "ultimate question" is percievably nothing short of a cop-out, and a reason not to ask or pursue the answers to any more questions.

"What do i attempt to do next?"

i just can't percieve how this question alone will help take humanity beyond what is known into the unknown. The only way we go from what is known, and grow in wisdom, is to formulate and ask the questions no one else has thought to ask, and logically pursue the true answers that the question can plausibly provide.



Whats a life of questioning worth?


life itself. immortality.



If there are no more questions to you cease to have a reason to exist?


Who has the experience among us to honestly compare all they know of in their minds and provide the answer? Who on earth has asked all the questions?



What is something that last forever, and there is no end to? Something worth living for? Well for me its love.


there is an emotion that both came before love, and comes after love no longer exists. "TRUTH" can be an emotion, but not one you have experienced if you still believe that "LOVE" is the end all be all.



Dont misinterpret what I mean by love or assume. Think about it, and make sure you are sure that you are understanding what love truely is.


Love is many things to many souls. Love is defined by the observer who quantifies their love by what it is they choose to love. the definition of love is in the eye of the beholder who observes love only by the confines of what they love. so, if love is what they love, they still do not value the truth above all else, they love something other than the truth. And what love is to them in the confines of their mind is also what love is confined to in how their mind interprets reality and experience. So, if they do not love the truth, then the truth is not how their mind interprets reality, nor does the truth exist in their perception of their own experiences.

Love is in the eye of the beholder. Each observer's personal loves determines what love is to each observer.

these are my immediate thoughts concerning what love is. But, love can be more than what love is, if one has more reverence for the truth, than what they do for what it is they love.

as always GrimmReaper797, you are making me think.
Thanks,
john



posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 05:50 PM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
But i honestly feel if you knew this was the last question that "TRUTH" could ask, then certainly you would have knowledge of every other question, and every answer to every question ever percieved.


you don't have to. All you have to realize is that everything but time thus far is finite. Maybe the universe is infinite, but in actuality that doesn't matter.

what matters is that there are indeed a finite number of questions to ask, but the only question that is infinite is that which regards something that is infinate, and will infinately change. Time.

A question regarding time is the only infinite question. Every other question can be answered because its finite. Why does the apple fall. Its a finite question. How do black holes work. Another finite question. Does god exist, another finite question.

Once its answered, there is no more to the question.

So the fact that its the main question regarding the only thing we figure to be infinite, it is the last truth.

If time does end, then every other question will become irrelevent because when time ends, everything does with it.



So, i feel unless you have all other questions formulated, and all possible answers to all questions that do, have, or ever will exist, then your "ultimate question" is percievably nothing short of a cop-out, and a reason not to ask or pursue the answers to any more questions.


as I explained about its simple logic. What question will outlast all other questions? Well the question that can be answered, yet still remain as unanswered.

It sounds like a contradiction, but its not. This question can be answered then the next moment become unanswered again because its dependent on time, and time is something that is infinite and constantly changes (we wouldn't notice time if nothing changed). Its the question about time and what happens during it. That is the last question because no other question has the ability to last forever.



"What do i attempt to do next?"

i just can't percieve how this question alone will help take humanity beyond what is known into the unknown.


What is know is mans lack of understanding as to the relevence of truth. Most people will not see its relevence til they know everything. Your motivation to find the truth will leave you completely unforfilled when you find it.

If I did have no more truths left to find other then what I were to do next, I would be out of questions to ask. So what would I do next? The answer will turn up, and you will realize that you could have probably done the same thing, before you knew everything. So you just spent all this time to know everything, for what? For the fame of it? For the money? What did you spend so much time on? When chances are it had no relevence on what you would do after you learned everything.

Now if your motivation was so that you could travel the universe, and it has been your dream and will, then you have a reason for asking questions.

To know everything means to have no other alternative but to start living life.



The only way we go from what is known, and grow in wisdom, is to formulate and ask the questions no one else has thought to ask, and logically pursue the true answers that the question can plausibly provide.


My wonder is what reason you are so persistant to find these truths. You believe it will better mankind. Did you ever think that maybe this world of people could end up knowing everything there is to know, and still be just the same? Still murderers, still steal, still fight? Why not? Some people don't care if there is a god or isn't and will still do those things. Maybe you haven't met them yet, but they are outthere. There are some people who are mentally incapable of caring about life or death.

After all this wisdom is achieved, what will YOU do?



life itself. immortality.


aha, maybe thats your reasoning. the fame? being able to live after you die?



Who has the experience among us to honestly compare all they know of in their minds and provide the answer? Who on earth has asked all the questions?


who on earth has all the questions? everyone. Who has asked all the questions? What does it matter? Who knows all the answers? No body. Would anything change if they did? Probably not.



there is an emotion that both came before love, and comes after love no longer exists. "TRUTH" can be an emotion, but not one you have experienced if you still believe that "LOVE" is the end all be all.


nope. Love isn't the end all be all. Its simply what I would rather live. The truth of time isn't defined, its created in due time. For some love is truth itself. Love and truth are one in the same. For others immortality and truth are one in the same.

Its not an emotion Im after, its the prefered way of life that I find to be most comfortable, and most forfilling. If your still searching, it doesn't mean your ambitious, it means you haven't found whats right for you yet. If you search your whole life for the answers, you never found the one that was meant for you.



Love is many things to many souls. Love is defined by the observer who quantifies their love by what it is they choose to love.


the observer, heard that on "What The Bleep Do We Know?" earlier today channel surfing. The emotion of love is a chemical reaction, the interpretation of love is whats different.

Ever wonder that maybe everyone feels the same things you do, but you just interpret them differently? Or maybe you even interpret them the same, but can't find the words to describe it the way you wish you could. That if you could find the perfect words to describe love, everyone would understand it because they feel the exact same thing for that chemical response.

Whats the relevence? The relevence is that they all choose what it is they feel it for. That is what makes us different. We all feel the same things, but toward what is what makes us different truely.



the definition of love is in the eye of the beholder who observes love only by the confines of what they love. so, if love is what they love, they still do not value the truth above all else, they love something other than the truth. And what love is to them in the confines of their mind is also what love is confined to in how their mind interprets reality and experience. So, if they do not love the truth, then the truth is not how their mind interprets reality, nor does the truth exist in their perception of their own experiences.


What if love is the truth for them? It may not fit what you believe, but the truth is something that varies person to person. What is truth to you? Is it god, or is it something else? The truth of time is what you choose. The truth of everything else is secondary to that truth. Your truth of the world may be blurred, but your still living who you are. How much more true can you be? True to yourself is more valuable then any other truth in the universe. If you aren't true to yourself, you can be certain you aren't living how you're suppose to.

when you lay down on your death bed, you will either say, I have no problem with dying because I did everything I wanted to, or you will regret and wish you had done something more.

If you are lying to yourself, whether you want to realize it or not, you will lay down on that death bed and you will regret. Regret is by far worse then any sin. Most the time we regret the sin itself, which is why a sin is so bad. If you regret something, its a sin for you, regardless of what any book says.

To regret is by far worse then anything else, and you should be able to see why.



Love is in the eye of the beholder. Each observer's personal loves determines what love is to each observer.

these are my immediate thoughts concerning what love is. But, love can be more than what love is, if one has more reverence for the truth, than what they do for what it is they love.

as always GrimmReaper797, you are making me think.
Thanks,
john


The truth isn't defined just by the rules of the world, but the world which we create.



posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 08:19 PM
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Originally posted by grimreaper797

If I did have no more truths left to find other then what I were to do next, I would be out of questions to ask. So what would I do next? The answer will turn up, and you will realize that you could have probably done the same thing, before you knew everything. So you just spent all this time to know everything, for what?


So after i do what i do next i don't have to ask: "Why did i do that?" or "What is it i just did?"



For the fame of it?


From the perspective of: if what i were doing was a response from the instincts of "self pre-serve", then yes. But this is not my motivation, nor my initiator, nor a factor concerning my intentions, personally. But, people who have not deleted the faulty dna cannot fathom such a concept, as there is no basis for comparison they can draw upon from all their experiences, since they have never experienced it.



For the money?

From the perspective of: if what i were doing was a response from the instincts of "self pre-serve", then yes. But this is not my motivation, nor my initiator, nor a factor concerning my intentions, personally. But, people who have not deleted the faulty dna cannot fathom such a concept, as there is no basis for comparison they can draw upon from all their experiences, since they have never experienced it.



What did you spend so much time on?


ensuring what i do next does not become "why did i do that?" or "what did i just do?". often the lives of many are dependant upon the decisions i make. Wrong decisions, many people could die, or even worse.



When chances are it had no relevence on what you would do after you learned everything.


but it already has made a difference and has proven to be relevent.



Now if your motivation was so that you could travel the universe, and it has been your dream and will, then you have a reason for asking questions.


we are traversing the universe.



To know everything means to have no other alternative but to start living life.


to not know everything means to have no other alternative but to endure dying.



My wonder is what reason you are so persistant to find these truths. You believe it will better mankind.


yep.


Did you ever think that maybe this world of people could end up knowing everything there is to know, and still be just the same? Still murderers, still steal, still fight?

nope.



Why not?


they will know what it was they were doing all those things for, and why they were doing them in the first place. and they will know truth, which they had not known when they were doing such things.



Some people don't care if there is a god or isn't and will still do those things. Maybe you haven't met them yet, but they are outthere. There are some people who are mentally incapable of caring about life or death.


Those people do not seek their own truth, which is why they are mentally incapable, although they may think they care about life or death, but just not enough to care about the truth.



After all this wisdom is achieved, what will YOU do?


write it out, share it, and brain dump it because of more truth that is incoming.





life itself. immortality.


aha, maybe thats your reasoning. the fame? being able to live after you die?


Again, you have no reference point within all your mind, or all your experiences to comprehend what it is of that i speak. you automatically believe it is for fame, because that is all you know of that would be your motivation. So, you assign the same character traits to others, when perhaps they are doing what they are doing out of selflessness, not selfishness. again, every cell says "be selfish", and people will follow those directions, up until they are consciously aware enough to think for themselves, instead of being a slave to ancient dna.




Who has the experience among us to honestly compare all they know of in their minds and provide the answer? Who on earth has asked all the questions?


who on earth has all the questions? everyone. Who has asked all the questions? What does it matter? Who knows all the answers? No body. Would anything change if they did? Probably not.


At best you can only say "probably not" because you are not interested enough in the truth. it is not your motivator, nor your initiator. "what do i do next?" does not provide you with the answers to your own questions. and you would not be able to even ask the questions unless your own subconscious mind did not already have answers to them, but you may be ignoring the answers to the questions altogether, because the answers are not compliant to "self pre-serve". Having never experienced life without it, "probably" is good enough because of "What do i do next?"



nope. Love isn't the end all be all. Its simply what I would rather live.


Of course it is what you would rather live. that always comes first. Why?



If you search your whole life for the answers, you never found the one that was meant for you.


sure. but if your genetic make-up creates the parameters and restricts you from asking the right question (due to being too afraid), then of course you will die still seeking the answers to all the wrong questions. The questions that keep you going in circles.





Love is many things to many souls. Love is defined by the observer who quantifies their love by what it is they choose to love.


the observer, heard that on "What The Bleep Do We Know?" earlier today channel surfing. The emotion of love is a chemical reaction, the interpretation of love is whats different.


I don't remember them saying that in the movie, but yes i have seen it a few times last spring/summer.



Ever wonder that maybe everyone feels the same things you do, but you just interpret them differently?


if it is wonderable, yes i have wondered. to answer the question today, no. i think everyone else is experiencing what it is i have and am experiencing, however i believe that they are not consciously experiencing 99.999999997% of their own experiences.


We all feel the same things, but toward what is what makes us different truely.


no. we do not all feel the same things. most people are not "feeling" 99.999999997% of their own senses. they trust 5 are enough, i guess. not that they are even aware that there are more.



What if love is the truth for them?


then they have never experienced the truth. they deprive themselves of their own truth. Everything to gain, but fearfull that they would lose something.


when you lay down on your death bed, you will either say, I have no problem with dying because I did everything I wanted to, or you will regret and wish you had done something more.


but if you were laying on your deathbed, you will be regretting because you will be asking yourself:
"What do i do next?"

only logical answer is:
"Die" or "regret" or "who cares, i did everything i wanted to do"

in which case you will have the final answer to a question you said has no end.



If you are lying to yourself, whether you want to realize it or not, you will lay down on that death bed and you will regret. Regret is by far worse then any sin. Most the time we regret the sin itself, which is why a sin is so bad. If you regret something, its a sin for you, regardless of what any book says.

To regret is by far worse then anything else, and you should be able to see why.


As i'm dying on my death bed, should i ask: "What do i do next?"



The truth isn't defined just by the rules of the world, but the world which we create.


but yet, people define themselves by the boundries of other people, because it is the only basis for comparison if one does not journey inwards to define what their truth is.

I hope none of my replies offend you. it is not my intention here. i like the way you challenge my thought processes. this is a growing experience, and an exchange of words and ideas. i do like the conversation, and will make an effort to make the responses shorter, i promise. but, you ask questions and make powerfully profound statements i like to respond to. i actually agree with a lot of stuff you say, but the mindset some people are in makes it hard to see just how right you are when you say some of the things you say. in other words, you may be right, but some readers/members and contributors may not see what it is you or myself for that matter are trying to convey.

i'll give you a WATS first thing in December, as i have already used them up. i don't always give wats to people i either agree with or dissagree with. i usually give them to people who i think deserve them for intelligent thoughts they share, or those who make me think the most. you fall into both catagories, and i am particularly glad you are a member here.

thanks,
john



posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 08:57 PM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
So after i do what i do next i don't have to ask: "Why did i do that?" or "What is it i just did?"


If you don't know why you did it, why did you do it to begin with?



From the perspective of: if what i were doing was a response from the instincts of "self pre-serve", then yes. But this is not my motivation, nor my initiator, nor a factor concerning my intentions, personally. But, people who have not deleted the faulty dna cannot fathom such a concept, as there is no basis for comparison they can draw upon from all their experiences, since they have never experienced it.


I said that because thats what it sounded like when you said immortality. Immortality is something craved by many people. Some do something extrordinary in order to be remembered and have their piece of immortality.



From the perspective of: if what i were doing was a response from the instincts of "self pre-serve", then yes. But this is not my motivation, nor my initiator, nor a factor concerning my intentions, personally. But, people who have not deleted the faulty dna cannot fathom such a concept, as there is no basis for comparison they can draw upon from all their experiences, since they have never experienced it.


again, what reasons do you have to pursue it then?



ensuring what i do next does not become "why did i do that?" or "what did i just do?". often the lives of many are dependant upon the decisions i make. Wrong decisions, many people could die, or even worse.


you don't have to know the truths of the world to know why you act, and which way you should act.

people die though, thats life. Why do you fear the possibility something you do may get some one killed? How do you know you havent already gotten some one killed by doing what you believed is right?



but it already has made a difference and has proven to be relevent.


It has made a difference in your choices, and what you think you believe. But it probably hasn't changed the person you are. I dont mean what you believe in like religion wise, or god wise. I mean who you are as a person. Have you changed your personality? And if what you were believing in were to be false, would you be the same person even knowing that fact?



we are traversing the universe.


you know what I meant. I meant you scienctifically pursue traveling the entire universe in your lifetime and wish to find a way to do so. Then questioning the rules of the universe in order to find a way to do it for him is worthwhile.

The questions have relevence for him because he is pursuing more then just the truth of the question, but something to utilize the answer for.



to not know everything means to have no other alternative but to endure dying.


not so. To not know everything means that you simply haven't found a reason to find those truths yet. Find them when you need them, not for the sake of finding them. We don't have much time here, why spend time finding truths you will never use and truths that are completely irrelevent to you.



they will know what it was they were doing all those things for, and why they were doing them in the first place. and they will know truth, which they had not known when they were doing such things.


And most of them will continue to do them because they wouldn't see anything else to live for. You say find the truth, and truth is what matters. But when there is no more truths to find, what do they have left to live for? Most of them will revert to survival because they don't see any other reason to live.

Most people would see it as instead of relying eachother, why not just rely on ourselves and not risk being let down by other people when they fail. If you fail, its your fault and you have no one to blame.

Why would we continue to exist if truth was the reason for existance?



Those people do not seek their own truth, which is why they are mentally incapable, although they may think they care about life or death, but just not enough to care about the truth.


maybe you havent met some of the people I have. Have you ever met a stone cold killer before? Ive met one person who didn't care about going to hell, and he even believe he would. He didn't care about a god, and he didn't care about anything other then getting by day by day.

There is no truth that would change them.

The truth is that these truths don't change anybody. They change their actions because they suddenly believes it will matter.

They believe that if they act a different way, now knowing what they know, that it will make a difference in the end. It doesn't. If you believe in god then change the way you act, your only fooling yourself, and maybe the people around you.

Your actions do not determine who you are alone.



write it out, share it, and brain dump it because of more truth that is incoming.


what more truth? there is no more truth. When you reach the end of the road, which you might not, but some one else will. Whats left for them then? they share it with every single person and being, then what? what comes next after all the truth has been learned and shared?



Again, you have no reference point within all your mind, or all your experiences to comprehend what it is of that i speak. you automatically believe it is for fame, because that is all you know of that would be your motivation.


wrong again. It would not be my motivation, because I would not do it. My only motivation is to experience what I can while Im hear. Watch a child grow, find out what love is about, find out what climbing a mountian is like, doing whatever comes to my mind that I feel the need to do. Why? Because its who I am and I know this for a fact. I know exactly who I am now, so all thats left is forfilling it.

If Im never famous, remembered, rich, or anything else, Ill be ok because I experienced. Thats what life is for, experience. We experience because its what we were born to do.

Truth is nothing but a means to achive something new. You can't achive everything ever known and unknown, so there is no reason to know every truth.



So, you assign the same character traits to others, when perhaps they are doing what they are doing out of selflessness, not selfishness.


nope. I personally don't have any desire for anything like that. I see it as most people do though.



again, every cell says "be selfish", and people will follow those directions, up until they are consciously aware enough to think for themselves, instead of being a slave to ancient dna.


agreed, its natural to be selfish, and as you become aware, you become less selfish.

At the same time you must realize, by giving now you may actually be taking away in the overall picture.



At best you can only say "probably not" because you are not interested enough in the truth. it is not your motivator, nor your initiator. "what do i do next?" does not provide you with the answers to your own questions. and you would not be able to even ask the questions unless your own subconscious mind did not already have answers to them, but you may be ignoring the answers to the questions altogether, because the answers are not compliant to "self pre-serve". Having never experienced life without it, "probably" is good enough because of "What do i do next?"


I said probably because for a few people it will make a change, simply because they wont have to spend any time to find that specific truth in order to do what they have been trying to achive. It has nothing to do with the truth, it has to do with the application of the truth.

If you have something to apply the truth to, then you have use in finding the truth, it becomes relevent.

The only question I have MYSELF is "what should I do next?", I may ask you questions, but it's not because they are questions I'm asking myself and cannot solve.

You assume a great deal about me, and have this entire thread. It has become rather irritating now because you don't understand that my only drive is to experience. It has nothing to do with my own preservation, or survival. All it has to do with is utilizing the time I have to the fullest while I have it. If I catch a disease that will kill me, I'm not going to freak out and hope to be saved. If I saw a person I could save by giving my own life, I would either immediately do so, or if given the time think of what this could do. 99% of the time, I would go ahead with saving them, 1% I would have the time to think and then realize that its not beneficial to save them if it truely isn't.

Experience is the most important thing while here.

Have you seen the movie Beautiful Mind?

If you have, try to remember what theory he made which got him his placement in college.

It will tell you a great deal of what it means do act for the benefit of all. In the movie, remember how they all succeed by none of them going for the blonde.

If you haven't go pick it up and check it out.



posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 09:25 PM
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Originally posted by grimreaper797

again, what reasons do you have to pursue it then?


To truly experience the 99.999999997% of reality i had not been experiencing since my life had begun. now i'm just trying to share information i know people want, but they are too afraid of losing the 0.000000002% that is all they know about.

but, i guess if there were a million of those people who would rather rely on the 0.000000002% of their brains, then you can have a succesful team effort with a sum of 0.002% of a brain when you add all million people together.

or, if it were necessary to have a whole brain, then you could get 1,000,000,000,000 people, or one person who is conscious, and not a slave to
"self pre-serve" mindset.

[edit on 20-11-2006 by Esoteric Teacher]



posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 09:28 PM
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Of course it is what you would rather live. that always comes first. Why?


haha, what I am seeing is that you see inside of a box. Now for a moment hear me out. You are standing in this here box. You are finding everything there is to know about everything inside the box. Everything that is true inside this box, and everything that isn't.

You dont see that the walls of the box block your visions from the fact that time surrounds the box. You see things as though if you know everything in the box, you will know all, and you will understand all. If you know how the box was created, why it was created, who created it, and why everything in it exists, you will be able to understand everything.

The TRUTH is that you won't. My point in asking "What will I do next?" is that you can never know every truth, ever. Because the truth of time, comes in time, and cannot be known, until it occurs. You cannot know that the fact you bought an ice cream on your way home from work may have saved a mans life, or ended it. And that down the road saves 100 lives, or kills 100 people.

You don't see the fact that no amount of truth can tell you what happens next, and what effects it will have. All the variables in the universe are constantly playing off of cause and effect, which you will never be able to understand because you can never know everything thats happening everywhere instantainiously. You will not ever be god. You can know for fact there is a god, why there is a god, how that god made the universe, why he made the universe, and everything else. You will never be able to calculate the cause and effect, ever. There is no machine that can take in the amount of variables per millisecond and calculate them fast enough to tell you what will happen 2 minutes from now because it would have to take every variable between then, which plays off the variable before it. By the time it has calculated it, the time has already passed and moved on.

In short, you will never know the future, thus you will never know the truth of time. That means that even if you know every answer and truth that you could possibily know, you can still make the wrong choices, simply because you don't know everything.



sure. but if your genetic make-up creates the parameters and restricts you from asking the right question (due to being too afraid), then of course you will die still seeking the answers to all the wrong questions. The questions that keep you going in circles.


what wrong questions are there? Doesn't all truth matter in your case? So how can it be a wrong question, for you?



I don't remember them saying that in the movie, but yes i have seen it a few times last spring/summer.


they mention "the observer" mutiple times. They mention the fact emotions are just chemical reactions and its the observer who interprets it.



if it is wonderable, yes i have wondered. to answer the question today, no. i think everyone else is experiencing what it is i have and am experiencing, however i believe that they are not consciously experiencing 99.999999997% of their own experiences.


well could you imagine if you experienced 100% of what you experience? You would have a complete mental breakdown within seconds. Consciously aware of every detail you can see, every detail you can hear, every detail you can smell, and every detail you can feel, every second. You wouldn't last 10 seconds let alone any real length of time.

Our subconscious sorts out all of the stuff we don't need to focus on. If it didn't we would go haywire very quickly. Think about it. Right now you are thinking hard, and thats just those 2000 eletric impulses per second. Imagine if you were consciously aware of all of them that the subconscious didn't block out?

The subconscious may just disregard what is not most important to you, because if it didn't you wouldn't last.




no. we do not all feel the same things. most people are not "feeling" 99.999999997% of their own senses. they trust 5 are enough, i guess. not that they are even aware that there are more.


when you feel the emotion love, its the same love the other person feels. When you feel pain, its the same pain other people feel. Its the consciousness which interprets it that sees it differently.



then they have never experienced the truth. they deprive themselves of their own truth. Everything to gain, but fearfull that they would lose something.


to love is not to fear loss. Maybe you don't have a very good concept of what real love is. Real love is an experience, nothing more. Attachment and insecurity causes fear of lossing something. Love doesn't cause fear of loss unless your insecure.

what do you define as truth though?



but if you were laying on your deathbed, you will be regretting because you will be asking yourself:
"What do i do next?"

only logical answer is:
"Die" or "regret" or "who cares, i did everything i wanted to do"

in which case you will have the final answer to a question you said has no end.


an interesting way to look at it, if you believe that you can personally answer the question. The question doesn't end with you. The question is not answered when you die, it may be the final answer for you personally, but it never has a final answer.

Science and religion and why's all have a final answer, a set answer, its the same for everybody. Choice and time allow the question that never has an end because each person has their own answer and it always changes. As long as their are living things making choices, somewhere in the universe, there is the question being asked, "what do I do next?"



As i'm dying on my death bed, should i ask: "What do i do next?"


your lying on your death bed, about to die. You decide its time to die. You die, and the next person asks when he wakes up, "what will I do next?" and the question continues, without you.

Your existance ending does not end the question, same as any other question.



but yet, people define themselves by the boundries of other people, because it is the only basis for comparison if one does not journey inwards to define what their truth is.


what does that have to do with the world we create? whether it be their own limited view, or the truth you talk about, its still the same world, regardless.

What you need to see is that you matter a great deal to the system, but at the same time, you are completely irrelenvent to the system. Your relevent because you play a vital role in what happens throughout time. Your irrelevent because it will continue without you, without much care as to your ending of existance. You are both very important and completely unimportant at the same time.



I hope none of my replies offend you. it is not my intention here. i like the way you challenge my thought processes. this is a growing experience, and an exchange of words and ideas. i do like the conversation, and will make an effort to make the responses shorter, i promise.


haha don't I enjoy responding to unrestricted responses. I enjoy the conversation and my stimulus.



but, you ask questions and make powerfully profound statements i like to respond to. i actually agree with a lot of stuff you say, but the mindset some people are in makes it hard to see just how right you are when you say some of the things you say. in other words, you may be right, but some readers/members and contributors may not see what it is you or myself for that matter are trying to convey.


I understand. Words will never be able to truely express what the mind wishes to say. Its that simply.



i'll give you a WATS first thing in December, as i have already used them up. i don't always give wats to people i either agree with or dissagree with. i usually give them to people who i think deserve them for intelligent thoughts they share, or those who make me think the most. you fall into both catagories, and i am particularly glad you are a member here.


Ive already given you one. And Ive gone some months without giving any out.

Great talking and challanging. Later.



posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 09:33 PM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
To truly experience the 99.999999997% of reality i had not been experiencing since my life had begun. now i'm just trying to share information i know people want, but they are too afraid of losing the 0.000000002% that is all they know about.

but, i guess if there were a million of those people who would rather rely on the 0.000000002% of their brains, then you can have a succesful team effort with a sum of 0.002% of a brain when you add all million people together.

or, if it were necessary to have a whole brain, then you could get 1,000,000,000,000 people, or one person who is conscious, and not a slave to
"self pre-serve" mindset.

[edit on 20-11-2006 by Esoteric Teacher]


If you were to experience all that, you would quickly wish it away. The subconscious absorbs EVERYTHING, like you said. It is a filter, as you said. It is a necessary filter, so that you consciousness can function properly.

Like I said in my other posts, Imagine if you experienced 100% of all the senses. You wouldn't be able to handle it because you can process fast enough. Its like that computer that can't calculate fast enough.

your use to 2000 a second. jumping to the other 99.99999997% is like asking to fight a strongest being in the world after fighting with a blade of grass your whole life.

You couldn't handle it, and quite simply, their is no reason to.

What reason do you need to be consciously aware of the fact every single blade of grass is green, each individual grass blade smells like fresh cut grass, and being consciously aware of every single blade of grass you see, every single second you see it? Your mind couldn't handle that alone, plus ALL the other things you see and smell and hear and feel and taste.

Its simply not necessary, so we filter it out before it ever gets there.



posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 10:46 PM
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i wish to be a voice of secular philosophy
until they create a secular philosophy subforum
that being said, i do like to also argue within the postulate of religion, it's just fun



posted on Nov, 20 2006 @ 11:34 PM
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Originally posted by grimreaper797

your use to 2000 a second. jumping to the other 99.99999997% is like asking to fight a strongest being in the world after fighting with a blade of grass your whole life.

You couldn't handle it, and quite simply, their is no reason to.


you couldn't handle it alone, nor would you be alone. and yes, there is a reason to. and the reason to do it is the answer to your question of "Why?"

but, you don't get the answer to your question, until you can handle it, and that is the "Why?"





Its simply not necessary, so we filter it out before it ever gets there.


it is only not necessary if you are "Me first before anyone or anything else" because you are your actions and your behaviors and your actions and your behaviors may very well be "Selfish before anything or anyone", which is what your dna tells your subconscious you are, so your subconscious keeps your conscious mind doing it's will, not yours. how could you know what your will is, since you have never experienced anything. your subconscious has, but you have not.



posted on Nov, 21 2006 @ 12:38 AM
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Originally posted by grimreaper797
Why? That is my question.


because there is absolutley no: "What should i attempt to do next?"

you have no influence or controll over the truth.

the truth has influence and controll over "What you attempt to do next"

the truth is nothing you have been consciously aware of your entire life.

the truth is what influences or dictates your perception of reality, your experiencing, your actions, your behaviors, and decides what it is it has you do next.

What you do next has no affect upon the truth.

but the truth is that the truth has an effect upon what it is you thought you chose to do next.


do you honestly believe your 2,000 active synapses per second commands the 400,000,000,000 active synapses per second? so, you have never been in the driver's seat of your own being, something else has been, not that you have identified it.



Why are you here, at this very subforum?


to answer the tough questions like this one.



What are you trying to accomplish?


trying is a word known only to quiters and losers.



Why are you trying to accomplish it?


there are already enough quiters and losers in the world, we don't want too many more of them.



Why, are you trying to find the reason for all things that are being and the possibility of an afterlife?


We don't feel the need to "try" to find what we know has been found.



Why are you trying to prove god exists?


we need not prove anything, but yet you feel compelled to ask?



Why is the question I ask.


It may indeed be the question you ask. but, it most certainly is not the question you want answered, now is it?



posted on Nov, 21 2006 @ 12:47 AM
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Your motivation to find the truth will leave you completely unforfilled when you find it.


You make this statement, but yet you have never experienced the truth, so you already know you don't know for sure that the content of this sentence is true or not.

"what do i attempt to do next?"

is not logical, truthful, or real. because you only do what you do without logic, without truth, and without knowledge of reality.

yes, whatever you choose to attempt to do next, you do it without knowledge of reality. because the truth is the truth experiences reality. you only experience what the truth has as left-overs.



posted on Nov, 21 2006 @ 12:54 AM
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life itself. immortality.


aha, maybe thats your reasoning. the fame? being able to live after you die?


this is not what i said. But, you as a selfish observer can only interpret it this way. i was talking about your life, and your immortality. not mine, nor my fame. what the hell would i want to be famous for again? It's fun to just walk down the street and not be bothered by people i do not know who know me.




The truth isn't defined just by the rules of the world, but the world which we create.


what portion of "create" exists seperate from truth?




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