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why? The Question I Ask You.

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posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 05:32 PM
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Why? That is my question.

Why are you here, at this very subforum?

What are you trying to accomplish? Why are you trying to accomplish it?

Why, are you trying to find the reason for all things that are being and the possibility of an afterlife? Why are you trying to prove god exists?

Why is the question I ask.

[edit on 14-11-2006 by grimreaper797]




posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 05:57 PM
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Originally posted by grimreaper797
Why?


the logical answer to "Why?" is: Because.



That is my question?


I'm not sure how to answer this question other than:
yes, i think this is your question.



Why are you here, at this very subforum?


subforum? interesting choice of word. my answer:
Because the truth we find here binds all other forums. they are spokes. we are the hub, the axle, the whole vehicle.



What are you trying to accomplish?


the questions to all other unnecessary forums, so we may identify them. after we identify the right questions, we find the answers. we are not trying. we are accomplishing the means to know the truth. you know, the truth that lies within you, within your subconscious mind perhaps? you know, the 99.999999997% of your brain you are not consciously aware of, which you call your subconscious. ya, the part of your mind that first recieves all sensory input. when it comes to your kind (frame of mind of "self pre-serve"), well we would need 1 million people who rely upon only their conscious mind to even have the equivelant of 0.002% of a human brain.



Why are you trying to accomplish it?


because it is needed.



Why, are you trying to find the reason for all things that are being and the possibility of an afterlife?


because it is there.



Why are you trying to prove god exists?


I don't feel the need to try to prove god exists. god exists, or all in existance is lying.



Why is the question I ask.


Because is the answer we supply you with.



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 06:14 PM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
the logical answer to "Why?" is: Because.


a rather incomplete answer, but given the fact it was an open ended question, obviously that was expected.



I'm not sure how to answer this question other than:
yes, i think this is your question.


thank you for catching my error.



subforum? interesting choice of word. my answer:
Because the truth we find here binds all other forums. they are spokes. we are the hub, the axle, the whole vehicle.


yes subforum, why aren't you in say tv forum or video games. you answered correctly though, so no need to explain my question.

the truth you search for, is it relevent?



the questions to all other unnecessary forums, so we may identify them. after we identify the right questions, we find the answers. we are not trying. we are accomplishing the means to know the truth. you know, the truth that lies within you, within your subconscious mind perhaps? you know, the 99.999999997% of your brain you are not consciously aware of, which you call your subconscious. ya, the part of your mind that first recieves all sensory input. when it comes to your kind (frame of mind of "self pre-serve"), well we would need 1 million people who rely upon only their conscious mind to even have the equivelant of 0.002% of a human brain.


are you asking the right questions?

The truth lies within us of course, our own truth though, no one elses.



because it is needed.


truth is needed, but is the truth YOU seek needed? Perhaps not all truths are relevent, perhaps some it doesn't matter if its true or not?



because it is there.


sure its there, but what is your reason for trying to find it?



I don't feel the need to try to prove god exists. god exists, or all in existance is lying.


didnt completely understand this, what do you mean by all in existance is lying?



Because is the answer we supply you with.


yes yes the open ended question gets the open ended response, I understand.

[edit on 14-11-2006 by grimreaper797]



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 06:39 PM
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I submit my answer and I ask the mods to forgive my 1-liner:

In response to 'why?', I say 'why not'.

The end.



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 06:44 PM
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Originally posted by spines
I submit my answer and I ask the mods to forgive my 1-liner:

In response to 'why?', I say 'why not'.

The end.


higher priorities?

excuse my one liner response to the one liner lol.



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 08:05 PM
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Originally posted by grimreaper797


I'm not sure how to answer this question other than:
yes, i think this is your question.


thank you for catching my error.


i make them, too. no worries. sometimes i laugh at my own errors, as i find them humorous at times.




subforum? interesting choice of word. my answer:
Because the truth we find here binds all other forums. they are spokes. we are the hub, the axle, the whole vehicle.


yes subforum, why aren't you in say tv forum or video games. you answered correctly though, so no need to explain my question.

the truth you search for, is it relevent?


i wager all i have that it is more than relevent.
i wager all i have had that it is more than relevent.
i wager all i will ever have that it is more than relevent.
i wager my very existance that it is more than relevent.
i wager all that is mine to wager that it is more than relevent.
i wager whatever is left that i have to wager that it is more than relevent.
i wager whatever is right that i have to wager that it is more than relevent.
i wager all i am that i am less than relevent.



are you asking the right questions?


are we capable of asking wrong questions? and if the question is wrong, is there a right answer?



The truth lies within us of course, our own truth though, no one elses.


but, without their truth would i have any truth? if nothing else ever existed, what truth would i know other than: "i am"?





because it is needed.


truth is needed, but is the truth YOU seek needed?


depends totally upon the intentionality of the one seeking the truth, does it not?
i believe the truth is needed, yes. i believe the truth is needed, but not for me alone. i do not seek the truth so that i may benefit from it, but rather that the truth may benefit from knowing the truth.



Perhaps not all truths are relevent, perhaps some it doesn't matter if its true or not?


But, if there were truths that were not relevent, and no one took the time to quantify nor define the irrelevent truths, then who would know for sure if they were relevent or irrelevent, since there would be no basis for comparison?





because it is there.


sure its there, but what is your reason for trying to find it?


because the truth compells me to know the truth.





I don't feel the need to try to prove god exists. god exists, or all in existance is lying.


didnt completely understand this, what do you mean by all in existance is lying?


What i meant was either there is a "god", or all existance is lying.





Because is the answer we supply you with.


yes yes the open ended question gets the open ended response, I understand.


Because is the most appropriate answer to "why?", that i can supply.



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 08:30 PM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
i wager all i have that it is more than relevent.
i wager all i have had that it is more than relevent.
i wager all i will ever have that it is more than relevent.
i wager my very existance that it is more than relevent.
i wager all that is mine to wager that it is more than relevent.
i wager whatever is left that i have to wager that it is more than relevent.
i wager whatever is right that i have to wager that it is more than relevent.
i wager all i am that i am less than relevent.


now the question is why? why is it more relevent then what you listed?



are we capable of asking wrong questions? and if the question is wrong, is there a right answer?


o yes most definately. The whole journey is finding the right questions. The search if for the question, the answer is already within you. If you can find the right question, youve completed the most important part of the journey.



but, without their truth would i have any truth? if nothing else ever existed, what truth would i know other than: "i am"?


After everyone finds peace, after all the questions youve asked are answered whats the final question? What cannot be answered by searching for an answer externally?

Their truth and your truth are not the same. Your question is the same, but your answer will always be different from the next persons. What question cannot be completed by simply searching for an answer?



depends totally upon the intentionality of the one seeking the truth, does it not?
i believe the truth is needed, yes. i believe the truth is needed, but not for me alone. i do not seek the truth so that i may benefit from it, but rather that the truth may benefit from knowing the truth.


The truth is needed for everybody, but you cannot find the truth for another person. You can lead them to their own truth, but they must be the ones to find it, see it. You can't see it for them, because you cannot see their truth at all, only yours.



But, if there were truths that were not relevent, and no one took the time to quantify nor define the irrelevent truths, then who would know for sure if they were relevent or irrelevent, since there would be no basis for comparison?


there are truths that are not revelent, these truths can be determind by a simple thought process. There is a comparison, and it takes only on question to be answered to figure out what is relevent to a person and what is irrelevent to a person. Ill give you a hint, I can't find it for you, you couldn't find mine, and its the only question that when answered, will truthfully determine your priorities.

When all other questions are answered, what one remains forever? What question can be both answered and unanswered?



because the truth compells me to know the truth.


Of course the truth wishes to be found, but is it suppose to be found by you? How do you know?



What i meant was either there is a "god", or all existance is lying.


still dont understand what you mean by all existance is lying? what do you mean by lying?



Because is the most appropriate answer to "why?", that i can supply.


I understand that. But it isn't the why thats most important. Ever done free writting before? keep answering every "why" that you can think of, for as long as you can.



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 09:19 PM
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I'm going to go out on a limb here, and please correct me if I'm wrong. What I got from Esoteric's statement about either there is a "god" or all existence is lying is this....

Either there is what most people refer to as god, a creator of all that is, or everything is lying to us by existing. If there is no "god", no creator, then nothing should exist. Therefore since things do exist, either they were created from what would be considered "god", or they are lying to us and only fooling us into thinking they exist.

That's just what I got from it. Like I said earlier, the point Esoteric was trying to get across could've been totally different.

As far as why goes, all I have to say is I am.



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 09:32 PM
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That is a logic I am rather unaware of. Simply saying its either god or nothing is rather narrow minded.



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 09:57 PM
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Originally posted by grimreaper797
now the question is why? why is it more relevent then what you listed?


it is important that we releve the ant because it is relevant that we coven the ant because of the covenant whether or not you believe the meek are those with the inheritance is irrelevant, i just wish you could percieve the importants of knowing the ants sir is the answer. perhaps we should practice propelants and excell to
excellance.

www.abovetopsecret.com...'



After everyone finds peace, after all the questions youve asked are answered whats the final question? What cannot be answered by searching for an answer externally?


www.abovetopsecret.com...'



Their truth and your truth are not the same.


only becuase they are lying to themselves, and do not know who they are, nor do they know their truth.



.... is the same, but your answer will always be different from the next persons. What question cannot be completed by simply searching for an answer?


if they knew their own truth, they would not need to ask me this question.




The truth is needed for everybody, but you cannot find the truth for another person. You can lead them to their own truth, but they must be the ones to find it, see it. You can't see it for them, because you cannot see their truth at all, only yours.


yes, i can find the truth for another person. but, they may not be capable or willing to know their own truth. And, yes, i can see their truth, but only because i have seen my own truth. however if they have not witnessed their own truth, how could they know that my truth is their truth?





But, if there were truths that were not relevent, and no one took the time to quantify nor define the irrelevent truths, then who would know for sure if they were relevent or irrelevent, since there would be no basis for comparison?


there are truths that are not revelent, these truths can be determind by a simple thought process. There is a comparison, and it takes only on question to be answered to figure out what is relevent to a person and what is irrelevent to a person. Ill give you a hint, I can't find it for you, you couldn't find mine, and its the only question that when answered, will truthfully determine your priorities.


What is the opposite of love? Most people would say hate, because they don't know their own truth.

How can anyone justify hating someone without first being afraid of losing that which they love?
and, what is it you love?
And what is it you loved before anything?

my priorities are knowing the truth. i know your truths, and i know your priorities better than you do. why? because i know what it is you seek, and i have knowledge of the truth.

I already know you better than you know yourself, because i know the god of truth. and, yes i am prepared to prove it to you. here are your first loves, of which you placed first, before you choose to love the truth:

1) FEAR. This is a byproduct of your instinct of "self pre-serve". this is a manditory requirement of the genetic command that infests your cells throughout your entire body: "i am self before (pre) i serve (anything or anyone because there is no end to the command".

2) FOOD. You needed this for cellular reproduction as you grew in the womb to become the macro-organism you are this day.

3) FAMILY. As they nurished and protected you from harm, and helped hide your fears from you, or helped you face the fears you could overcome.

4) FRIENDS. Because you needed a sense of belonging and acceptance.

5) FORNICATION. Because you were curious about a thing called love, and this is the physical manifestation of the concept, and a piece of the puzzle when attempting to understand what love is.

6) FINANCES. Because it helped your selfishness dna of "self pre-serve" and you achieve more control over the accumilation of your previous 5 loves.

Now look at your first 6 loves. Now look at the FIRST commandment of: "you will have no other gods/loves before me"

now look again at your first 6 loves.

you have made 6 choices to love 6 things before truth, that all begin with the 6th letter of your "ALL FIB I BET", the letter "F" placed before the 7th letter, GOD's "G".

How can anyone justify hating someone without first being afraid of losing that which they love?

and, what is it you love?

it seems to me you love 666. feel free to explain why i am wrong.



When all other questions are answered, what one remains forever? What question can be both answered and unanswered?


i know this one, too.



Of course the truth wishes to be found, but is it suppose to be found by you? How do you know?


i know it is suppose to be found by me, because i have already found it.



still dont understand what you mean by all existance is lying? what do you mean by lying?


www.abovetopsecret.com...'





Because is the most appropriate answer to "why?", that i can supply.


I understand that. But it isn't the why thats most important. Ever done free writting before? keep answering every "why" that you can think of, for as long as you can.


what is zero plus zero?

what is 0 + 0 + 0 ?

what is the sum of a few billion zeros?

...............................

now go look in a mirror and tell us how many are looking back at you.

one, right?

so, ever brain cell that you utilized to form the thought that there is only one reflection in the mirror has to contimplate:

"if we are zero self aware, and zero intelligence, and zero consciousnesses, then how can all of us zeros add up to make the sum of ONE?"

i think i know a few truths, yes.
i think i know a few truths that are your truths that you did not know were your truths, because you don't believe my truths are your truths, and you don believe your truths are my truths.

perhaps your opinion is incompatible with the truth?

[edit on 14-11-2006 by Esoteric Teacher]



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 11:17 PM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
it is important that we releve the ant because it is relevant that we coven the ant because of the covenant whether or not you believe the meek are those with the inheritance is irrelevant, i just wish you could percieve the importants of knowing the ants sir is the answer. perhaps we should practice propelants and excell to
excellance.

www.abovetopsecret.com...'


Ive read it already. I know your subconscious idea, and I respect it because to a certain extent it is true. I think you may have stretched it to an extreme degree by trying to connect everything to something else, but none the less you are to an extent correct.



only becuase they are lying to themselves, and do not know who they are, nor do they know their truth.


the truth is the reason for being, so how can your reason for being be to find the truth? thats a never ending cycle. Your purpose is to find the truth, yet the truth is whatever your purpose it. It doesn't work.



if they knew their own truth, they would not need to ask me this question.


I asked you for socrates method of learning, not literally. What question cannot be answered by simply looking for an answer? What requires more then just finding an answer? What question never ends? Thats the question to ask.



yes, i can find the truth for another person. but, they may not be capable or willing to know their own truth. And, yes, i can see their truth, but only because i have seen my own truth. however if they have not witnessed their own truth, how could they know that my truth is their truth?


you do not know the person, thus you cannot know their truth. You are not them, you are you. They dont have to know their own truth to say their truth may not be the same. If everyone were here for the same purpose, why the hell are their 6 billion+ of us? to make it more efficient? then why aren't their 600 billion of us? or 600 trillion of us? Because we don't all have the same purpose, the same truth. The truth isn't an answer to a question, but rather an action following an answer. The question never ends.



What is the opposite of love? Most people would say hate, because they don't know their own truth.


and If I were to say the opposite is nothing more then the complete absense of it?



How can anyone justify hating someone without first being afraid of losing that which they love?
and, what is it you love?
And what is it you loved before anything?


sorry but your going to be disappointed. I dont fear losing anything, because I don't specifically love any certain thing. Love is only noticed when you love something MORE then another, and for me that isn't true. I couldn't choose one thing over another because to me it simply doesn't matter. I could lose something which would lead me to something else I wouldn't have had otherwise. That why I don't fear losing anything. I don't fear death because their isn't any reason to. Theres no basis behind it, no logic. Fear has no logic, its an emotion. A raw emotion coupled with instinct, which is more emotion and no logic. Logically, there is nothing to fear, because there is nothing you can do about it. Death will come eventually, lose will come eventually, all things will come eventually, why fear it?



my priorities are knowing the truth. i know your truths, and i know your priorities better than you do. why? because i know what it is you seek, and i have knowledge of the truth.


Im very interested to see this.



I already know you better than you know yourself, because i know the god of truth. and, yes i am prepared to prove it to you. here are your first loves, of which you placed first, before you choose to love the truth:


haha,what is funny is you believe that truth is a necessity, but their is something after truth. To know is not to live.



1) FEAR. This is a byproduct of your instinct of "self pre-serve". this is a manditory requirement of the genetic command that infests your cells throughout your entire body: "i am self before (pre) i serve (anything or anyone because there is no end to the command".


I believe Ive already gone over this. Logically there isn't anything to fear. Nothing is "worse" then death, and death is nothing to fear. Not because I believe Ill go to heaven or anything like that, simply because death is the end and is garenteed to happen, eventually. So why fear what will happen regardless of your actions?



2) FOOD. You needed this for cellular reproduction as you grew in the womb to become the macro-organism you are this day.


I dont fear losing it though, because Ill only die. As Ive said their is nothing logically to fear in death, since its garenteed.



3) FAMILY. As they nurished and protected you from harm, and helped hide your fears from you, or helped you face the fears you could overcome.


O man you definately misread me on this one. I wont go into my life story, but you have basically said the opposite of what happened.



4) FRIENDS. Because you needed a sense of belonging and acceptance.


not at all. you couldn't be more wrong, and just about anybody thats been around me for a week can tell you so.



5) FORNICATION. Because you were curious about a thing called love, and this is the physical manifestation of the concept, and a piece of the puzzle when attempting to understand what love is.


did at one point, about 3 years ago. fortunately Ive long past that, so I no longer fear anything about this.



6) FINANCES. Because it helped your selfishness dna of "self pre-serve" and you achieve more control over the accumilation of your previous 5 loves.


funny. I dont know if you mean grown up financially stable, or that I care about money. If you mean the latter, your again wrong, if you mean the former...your still wrong.

I hunt and fish for alot of my food, and I enjoy doing it. It doesn't cost me anything, and I find it relaxing. I dont have that relates to financial stability.



Now look at your first 6 loves. Now look at the FIRST commandment of: "you will have no other gods/loves before me"

now look again at your first 6 loves.

you have made 6 choices to love 6 things before truth, that all begin with the 6th letter of your "ALL FIB I BET", the letter "F" placed before the 7th letter, GOD's "G".


they aren't my loves, you made assumptions about me because Ive realized that the only truth is that all truths are irrelevent when it comes down to the main question. None of these "truths" should effect your response to the main question. If you don't know the main question, you don't have a bit of valuable truth.



How can anyone justify hating someone without first being afraid of losing that which they love?

and, what is it you love?

it seems to me you love 666. feel free to explain why i am wrong.


wrong because you assumed things about me, because your lack of understanding. You don't know your own truth, because you still believe it is to find the truth. The purpose is defeating itself. In your world, you can never find the truth, because the truth is the purpose to life. Lifes purpose is to find the truth, yet the truth is to find the purpose of life? they circle around and around with out ever having an answer.

When you have circle logic like that, its because its incorrect. There is only so much truths out there before you must move on . (hint)



i know this one, too.


share it so I know we are on the same page.



i know it is suppose to be found by me, because i have already found it.


then what is your purpose for existance?



what is zero plus zero?

what is 0 + 0 + 0 ?

what is the sum of a few billion zeros?


0 of course.


...............................

now go look in a mirror and tell us how many are looking back at you.

one, right?

thats rather funny. there are no zeros, thus 1 zero. If I am understanding you correctly of course. Its funny, but its irrelevent.



so, ever brain cell that you utilized to form the thought that there is only one reflection in the mirror has to contimplate:

"if we are zero self aware, and zero intelligence, and zero consciousnesses, then how can all of us zeros add up to make the sum of ONE?"


How does every screw and wire in your computer add up to one computer? No single screw, or bolt, or chip is a computer by itself. It's interactions together make it the computer. The single pieces apart equal zero computers, but together they equal one. so how do all those zero's equal one? Because they aren't zero at all. they are fractions. They are incomplete parts to a puzzle. They aren't zeros at all, they just aren't wholes either.



i think i know a few truths, yes.


I agree.



i think i know a few truths that are your truths that you did not know were your truths, because you don't believe my truths are your truths, and you don believe your truths are my truths.


no, I realize all the truths are the same between you and me, BUT ONE. Thats the one which is relevent. I never said we don't have the same truths, just not the same relevent truth.



perhaps your opinion is incompatible with the truth?


perhaps you are confused. Are you following THE truth or A truth?



posted on Nov, 15 2006 @ 01:16 AM
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Originally posted by grimreaper797
Why? That is my question.

Why are you here, at this very subforum?

What are you trying to accomplish? Why are you trying to accomplish it?

Why, are you trying to find the reason for all things that are being and the possibility of an afterlife? Why are you trying to prove god exists?

Why is the question I ask.

[edit on 14-11-2006 by grimreaper797]


First of, im not religios, not christian or anything.

I am at this forum because i like to talk about our spritualty.

What i am trying to accomplish? I'm a truth seeker, i have an inner urge to know everything. I try to accomplish this because it matters, more then our daily life.

I'm not trying to find a reasion for the afterlife, i know it exsist. God also exsist but god isn't necessarly what humans believe god to be, we just imagine some guy with a huge beard. I don't prefer the name God, i like calling it the Light, Divine Mother/Father etc.

People need to think through about the matter of exsistance above the physical world. We don't live this pointless experience of life where we get born, die and that's it, then we'll never exsist again. There are much more to the world then most people can even think, people have blindly accepting science as fact even tho it's not certain on almost anything.



posted on Nov, 15 2006 @ 01:22 AM
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Did I mess this one up or what? Sorry about the double post.
:bash::bnghd:

[edit on 15/11/2006 by 7Pan7cho7]



posted on Nov, 15 2006 @ 01:27 AM
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That does bring up a good point InsaneTK, the whole thing about science. There is a song by System Of A Down entitled "Science".



Making two possibilities a reality, Predicting the future of things we all know,
Fighting off the diseased programming Of centuries, centuries, centuries, centuries.

Science fails to recognize the single most Potent element of human existence
letting the reigns go to the unfolding Is faith, faith, faith, faith.

Science has failed our world. Science has failed our Mother Earth.................

...........Spirit-moves-through-all-things
Spirit-moves-through-all-things
Spirit-moves-through-all-things

System Of A Down

I just thought this goes well with what you said about science.

Peace,

Pancho



posted on Nov, 15 2006 @ 02:02 PM
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Originally posted by InSaneTK
First of, im not religios, not christian or anything.

I am at this forum because i like to talk about our spritualty.


thats fine. do you find it a primary concern or secondary?



What i am trying to accomplish? I'm a truth seeker, i have an inner urge to know everything.


exactly, and what would you call this urge? It does have a name.



I try to accomplish this because it matters, more then our daily life.


why?



I'm not trying to find a reasion for the afterlife, i know it exsist. God also exsist but god isn't necessarly what humans believe god to be, we just imagine some guy with a huge beard. I don't prefer the name God, i like calling it the Light, Divine Mother/Father etc.


thats fine. But if you have nothing to prove, what reason are you here? Are you here to spread the idea you have? Or to just simply hear yourself say it?



People need to think through about the matter of exsistance above the physical world. We don't live this pointless experience of life where we get born, die and that's it, then we'll never exsist again. There are much more to the world then most people can even think, people have blindly accepting science as fact even tho it's not certain on almost anything.


perception is by far the most amazing thing. Two people who are so alike physically, can see things so differently mentally. You look at it in a light that is pretty pointless. You are born, die, and thats it. That does sound rather pointless if that were it. Your perspective shows life as very dull and worthless.

What if I were to tell you that life is a greater gift then any imagined heaven? You wouldn't believe me, but only because you don't see it in the same light. You aren't taking YOURSELF out of the equation and just looking at it from a third person perspective.

We are born, and then we live life, and that is a greater gift then an eternity in heaven, if you have the right perspective. Why? Well I see it as rather simple. If you have something for so long, and theres no change, theres just this constant feeling of happiness, eventually its not that valuable anymore.

You lose its worth. Remember the old phrase "You dont know somethings worth till its gone?" Well that is something that applies to our souls. It applies to us deeper then just our human experience, it applies to our consciousness. You dont realize somethings value till its gone. In heaven, you never lose it, because that would be a negative event and negative events don't happen in heaven.

Heaven and hell are two extremes, both which ultimately aren't worth spending an eternity in. Life gives you the ups, gives you the downs, which let you value the ups you do have, and realize what somethings worth is to you.

If you have no value for anything, there is nothing for you. If nothing has value, nothing can satisfy you or bring you up.

To me thats why life is the greatest gift, and its far more important then pointless. I thank whatever caused this all to happen, that my life has gone the way it has. Thats not because I haven't gone through hard time, but because I did go through hard times and now I can utilize them to my advantage, and makes me more understanding and makes me realize the value of some things.



posted on Nov, 15 2006 @ 05:39 PM
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Originally posted by grimreaper797
Why are you here, at this very subforum?

Because I can talk about God without getting banned (as I would at conventional 'christian forums' for speaking of God as they have not allowed Him yet to be)

I like it here because even though most try to put God in a box, it is not required at all and I like a no box God as BIG as can be. Boxes are for puppies!


What are you trying to accomplish? Why are you trying to accomplish it?

Hmmm...I guess I just like to discuss for both learning and teaching - I don't wish to impose anything on others but I do have a great interest in clearing up things such as what I KNOW the bible DOES not say - aside from beliefs there are things it says and things it does not - just like any other book. The words that are printed are not subjective just as they aren't in any other book - even Cinderella says what it says.

As for the why of why I do this? An obsession with abolishing blind following of ignorant or unsupported things accepted as fact - denying ignorance I guess - in the case of God ignorance would be not searching Him out for one's self. Anyone can do that - without even a bible or a book in hand - going out fishing works just as well. But most would rather just believe what is the accepted norm even if it doesn't make sense and isn't something they can discuss and retain their personal credibility (most of the time).


Why, are you trying to find the reason for all things that are being and the possibility of an afterlife?

The possibility of an afterlife isn't something I'm trying to find or find a reason for - I know I've had 'before lifes' and I cannot say why or prove that to anyone. It's not my purpose here. As far as finding the reason for all things - it is more a scientific interest that has me questioning all things all the time - I rely on empirical data for all things I can see - that way I actually learn something rather than make myself a cartoon world to promote to others as 'real.' I'm more like Einstein than Martin Luther or Billy Graham.


Why are you trying to prove god exists?

I'm not. He proved to me that He exists (and in ways that you would not believe if I were to tell you so I won't try to convince you that He's shown himself to me). But that is why I know that only God can prove God - and when He does - there is no doubt about it. I don't know too many that can say the KNOW God is rather than they believe God is so I guess it's not something into full swing as of yet.


Why is the question I ask.

Why do you ask these things, sir?


You know I only answered you because you bear a striking resemblance to Val Kilmer in your avatar
and I find him impossible to resist...Unless you really are Val Kilmer and in that case, come on over to my house sometime and we'll talk all you want about my preoccupation with God - or we can talk about Batman, too - he is a favorite subject of mine, too!




posted on Nov, 18 2006 @ 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Grimreaper797

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
only becuase they are lying to themselves, and do not know who they are, nor do they know their truth.


the truth is the reason for being, so how can your reason for being be to find the truth? thats a never ending cycle. Your purpose is to find the truth, yet the truth is whatever your purpose it. It doesn't work.


Of course it hasn't worked for you. you have not taken one step without your opinion. So, you have no experience of what it means to non-objectivley observe anything truthfully. So, of course you can say that my opinion blinds my observance of truth. You have never seen any other way yourself, so when you hold my words up for comparison in your mind, there is no comparison to be made to truth, because through your eyes my opinion is my truth, because you know your opinion is your truth. Opinion is nothing more than prejudice (meaning to pre-judge), so if one pre-judges and is prejudice with an opinion, and has never had an experience devoid of the interference of their opinion, then odds are they are not capable of experiencing the truth, but are indeed very adapt to percieving their opinion.

The truth can not be given, only experienced.

GrimReaper:
It seems to me you are trying to ask me this question:
Why or how can i be sure i value the truth of others over my opinion?

Well, why or how can you be sure i value my opinion over the collective truth of others, without ever having made the effort to quantify or explain what constitutes or comprises an opinion?

in other words:
How can you judge my opinion and intentionality when you have never asked the question of what an opinion is? not my opinion, your opinon. From what does your opinion come from, and how is it formed?

How can i be convinced that my opinion does not cloud my observation of truth?
Well, have you taken one step devoid of your opinion?
Have you ever made an earnest attempt to analyze or define what formulates your opinion? If so, you most certainly would know the process that has occurred to form my opinion. What factors of the process make your opinion different from what you think my opinion is?

so.....

What experience can one draw upon for reference and comparison when judging in their mind, my perspective? Having not discovered what their opinion consists of, are they truly capable of farely judging a perspective minus their opinions, if they don't even know where their opinion comes from, or how it is formed?

** How can someone be sure that they value the truth over their opinion?
How the hell can anyone who has an opinion truly accept any answer supplied to that question? **

the truth may very well be that people experiencing only 0.000000002% of reality may not be capable of experiencing the other 99.999999997% because their opinion keeps them from doing so.

the truth may be that they are not capable of percieving or consciously comprehending the viewpoint i describe. What do they have in their minds to compare it to, but their opinion?


What question cannot be answered by simply looking for an answer?


The question that requires asking the right question can be far more important than asking the question that presents an answer. if you can only fathom asking the question that has an answer for your ego, or your opinion, then perhaps the right question may ellude you.


What requires more then just finding an answer?


thinking outside the box long enough to ask the question or questions that no one else has asked. Sometimes the question is far more crucial than any answer that can be supplied in our lifetimes, but would we think to ask the question that can not be answered in our lifetime if their is no personal gain or personal benefit?



What question never ends? Thats the question to ask.


then ask it.



Originally Posted by Esoteric Teacher
yes, i can find the truth for another person. but, they may not be capable or willing to know their own truth. And, yes, i can see their truth, but only because i have seen my own truth. however if they have not witnessed their own truth, how could they know that my truth is their truth?


Originally posted by Grimreaper797
you do not know the person, thus you cannot know their truth.


no, their opinion blinds them from the fact that others can know their truth.


You are not them, you are you.


And, it is your opinion that them and you are so different?


They dont have to know their own truth to say their truth may not be the same.


True. But they can only say that their truth may not be the same, because without having known their own truth, they can not know for sure the truth of the debate, rather just their opinion on the subject.



If everyone were here for the same purpose, why the hell are their 6 billion+ of us? to make it more efficient? then why aren't their 600 billion of us? or 600 trillion of us? Because we don't all have the same purpose, the same truth. The truth isn't an answer to a question, but rather an action following an answer. The question never ends.


Why is purpose and truth interchangible in your perspective? Goals of societies does not mean identical purposes, but mutual truths can still exist where specific purposes may not be identical in the tangible realm. does this make sense, or am i explaining myself in an unorthadox way?



and If I were to say the opposite is nothing more then the complete absense of it?


then i think you would be closer to answering one of your own questions.



sorry but your going to be disappointed. I dont fear losing anything, because I don't specifically love any certain thing. Love is only noticed when you love something MORE then another, and for me that isn't true.


how aware of you of how the microscopic cells that comprise you operate? Cells are naturally addicted to the neuro-peptides that your hypothalmus produces, which does effect your dna, and it's decline over time. your cells do become addicted to the mechanisms that convey chemical messages to them via neuro-peptides. so, for you to say that you do not fear losing anything is to speak for billions of cells within you that you are not listening to to begin with, so again since this is not the truth, you must be relaying only your opinion, and not your entire truth.



I couldn't choose one thing over another because to me it simply doesn't matter.


think quick:
TRUTH verses YOUR OPINION

or can you not choose one over the other because to you it simply doesn't matter?



my priorities are knowing the truth. i know your truths, and i know your priorities better than you do. why? because i know what it is you seek, and i have knowledge of the truth.



Im very interested to see this.



I already know you better than you know yourself, because i know the god of truth. and, yes i am prepared to prove it to you. here are your first loves, of which you placed first, before you choose to love the truth:



haha,what is funny is you believe that truth is a necessity, but their is something after truth. To know is not to live.


And yet you said you were not afraid to die, so why does your opinion laugh "haha" at the truth as a necessity, funny, huh? Something after truth? do you speak of experience of truth? the truth, or the truth of your opinion?


Logically there isn't anything to fear. Nothing is "worse" then death, and death is nothing to fear.


But, if you did not fear death, then why is it so humorous to believe that the truth is a necessity when your justification for truth not being a necessity is not to live?


2) FOOD. You needed this for cellular reproduction as you grew in the womb to become the macro-organism you are this day.

I dont fear losing it though, because Ill only die. As Ive said their is nothing logically to fear in death, since its garenteed.


and yet:
"haha,what is funny is you believe that truth is a necessity, but their is something after truth. To know is not to live."



quote:
3) FAMILY. As they nurished and protected you from harm, and helped hide your fears from you, or helped you face the fears you could overcome.

O man you definately misread me on this one. I wont go into my life story, but you have basically said the opposite of what happened.


No, i have not said the opposite of what happened. But, what i have said is not compliant with your opinion. And, obviously your opinion dictates the truth that your family was not your 3rd love because they did not nurish or protect you from harm. So, obviously your opionion disregards the truth of the embilical cord, how your mother (host) provided you with all the nurishment you needed (food), all the oxygen your cells required, regulated your body temperature for you, took all your cellular wastes from you, and provided you a safe haven within her womb. Is it your truth that you were not nurished and protected in the womb by your family, and the genetics that provided you the tools necesary to survive? Or is it your opinion that you are not of the same stock as the rest of the human race? Perhaps you did not recieve any nurishment or shelter or protection from harm while you were in your mother's womb? If so, your opinion must not be compliant with the truth of the rest of humanity, or perhaps you were a test tube baby? In which case, someone must have adopted the test tube, and both nurished and protected you long enough to develope into one who could offer insight here.



posted on Nov, 18 2006 @ 01:52 PM
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LOVE does not have to be noticed.

It just has to BE.



posted on Nov, 18 2006 @ 01:57 PM
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4) FRIENDS. Because you needed a sense of belonging and acceptance.


not at all. you couldn't be more wrong, and just about anybody thats been around me for a week can tell you so.


i bet i'm just as wrong as i was about your first provider of nurishment and protection, of which i soooooooo read you wrong.


5) FORNICATION. Because you were curious about a thing called love, and this is the physical manifestation of the concept, and a piece of the puzzle when attempting to understand what love is.


did at one point, about 3 years ago. fortunately Ive long past that, so I no longer fear anything about this.


i said nothing about fearing it. fear and love are not the same thing, nor is one the result of the other, nor is one the cause, and the other the effect.


6) FINANCES. Because it helped your selfishness dna of "self pre-serve" and you achieve more control over the accumilation of your previous 5 loves.

funny. I dont know if you mean grown up financially stable, or that I care about money. If you mean the latter, your again wrong, if you mean the former...your still wrong.


wrong or not, you still live in a society where money is priority. But, obviously you do not consider yourself to be a memeber of society, either that or your last statement is not true. "Peolpe rule" is what domacracy means, and democracy has voted for (time and again) for capitalism, or corporations would not be making a surplus of $35,000 every minute for an entire 3 month period, such as British Petroleum reported last quarter.



they aren't my loves, you made assumptions about me because Ive realized that the only truth is that all truths are irrelevent when it comes down to the main question.


they are not your loves because your opinion tells you that the only truth is that all truths are irrelevent



None of these "truths" should effect your response to the main question. If you don't know the main question, you don't have a bit of valuable truth.


according to your opinion, sure.



wrong because you assumed things about me, because your lack of understanding.


are you sure i was wrong because of my lack of understanding?
or am i wrong because of your lack of understanding. did i assume things about you that were not true? you are the one who said your family did not nurish or protect you. Seems to me your opinion makes many assumptions about you that are not true, and you listen to your opinion, which is why you have a split personality (broken brain that is in sections that can't communicate openly with the other sections).



You don't know your own truth, because you still believe it is to find the truth.


Obviously you value and hold in reverence something that is far greater than truth. And what is greater than the truth?


The purpose is defeating itself. In your world, you can never find the truth, because the truth is the purpose to life. Lifes purpose is to find the truth, yet the truth is to find the purpose of life? they circle around and around with out ever having an answer.


then you are missing a valuable piece of the puzzle. off the top of my head i would say what you are lacking is the truth, because if you had it you would know more than "truth is the purpose to life, yet the truth is to find the purpose of life".

i guess that makes sense for someone who denies themselves their own truths.



How does every screw and wire in your computer add up to one computer? No single screw, or bolt, or chip is a computer by itself. It's interactions together make it the computer. The single pieces apart equal zero computers, but together they equal one. so how do all those zero's equal one? Because they aren't zero at all. they are fractions. They are incomplete parts to a puzzle. They aren't zeros at all, they just aren't wholes either.


but if your mind was the jigsaw puzzle that has 400,000,002,000 peices, what prevents you from seeing the other 99.999999997% of the puzzle while your opinion is looking at the other 0.000000002%.

sort of hard to see the whole picture when your opinion can not recognize the 400,000,000,000 peices of the puzzle that control ALL YOUR SENSORY INPUT.



perhaps you are confused. Are you following THE truth or A truth?

perhaps i am capable of observing more than one of these choices simultaneiously. but, one would have to adopt a mindset not contstrained by an opinion to be capable of integrating how that could be a truth.


[edit on 18-11-2006 by Esoteric Teacher]



posted on Nov, 18 2006 @ 01:59 PM
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Originally posted by queenannie38
LOVE does not have to be noticed.

It just has to BE.


can't get at the truth without really knowing love.

you are correct, love.



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