It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

USAF Declassifies Elite Aggressor Program

page: 1
0
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 02:07 PM
link   
The program known as "Constant Peg" has been declassified by the USAF. For decades US pilots have been using MIG fighters as a training tool for air to air combat at Tonapah test range. Check out the pentagon press release:

www.af.mil...
After decades of secrecy, the Air Force today acknowledged that it flew Communist-built fighters at the Tonopah Test Range northwest of Las Vegas, Nevada.

From 1977 through 1988, the program, known as CONSTANT PEG, saw U.S. Air Force, Navy, and Marine aircrews flying against Soviet-designed MiG fighters as part of a training program where American pilots could better learn how to defeat or evade the Communist bloc's fighters of the day.
Note: There will be a press conference at the National Museum of the U.S. Air Force in Wright-Patterson AFB, Ohio, Nov 16 at 1 p.m. Media interested in covering the press conference should cont! act the Museum Public Affairs office at 937-255-4704, ext. 332, 333 or 330.


Another reason why US pilots are the best trained in the world.

[edited to include a citation, use ex tags, and trim down the quote -nygdan]

[edit on 16-11-2006 by Nygdan]




posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 02:28 PM
link   
I wonder if they mentioned how the russian aircraft compared. Were some superior to US comparable fighters or where they always out classed one way or another? Just curious to see how they really would have preformed when they went head to head.



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 02:48 PM
link   
Hi

This link will give you some information on the comparision data of the Migs verse's USAF Aircraft

Mig's V's USAF Aircraft



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 02:51 PM
link   
this was only recently declasified? I knew this for years just from looking around on the internet.



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 03:08 PM
link   
Intresting, I knew about the MiG's that were involved in the Red Hat, technical evaluation program. They had a whole squadron of them out at Groom Lake.

However, I didn't know they flew in the training missions as well.

Tim



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 05:39 PM
link   
All of the information in the press release was widely known by the public (at least those of us who are aviation geeks), but never officially acknowledged by the Air Force.

It has been widely published in books (Wings of Fury by Robert Wilcox, 1996, has a good synopsis that sounds almost exactly like the press release) and articles in various magazines and on the Internet.

Numerous units from the Air Force, Navy and Marines visited the Nellis Range to fly against the Migs in mock air-to-air combat. After the 4477th TES was inacativated, the remaining assets were reconstituted as a detachment of the 57th FW at Nellis (now Det. 3, 53 TEG).



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 05:59 PM
link   
There were two foreign aircraft programs, one by AFSC and one by TAC. I have a feeling a friend of mine was involved in one or the other, since I know he has at least been to Tonopah if not Groom also, and said the Mig-23 was really really fast, with good acceleration, but that he couldnt tell me how he knew. I think he was in some of the TAC dissimilar aircraft evaluations.



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 07:31 PM
link   
Thanks for the link ajsr-71,

it's got just what I need.



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 11:42 PM
link   
lmao!

I think everyone of this site knew of this program years ago.....



posted on Nov, 16 2006 @ 08:43 AM
link   

Originally posted by Always Trust_no1
From 1977 through 1988, the program, known as CONSTANT PEG, saw U.S. Air Force, Navy, and Marine aircrews flying against Soviet-designed MiG fighters as part of a training program where American pilots could better learn how to defeat or evade the Communist bloc's fighters of the day.


Ah! This was a Joint Program. I bet it was a follow on to the lessons of Viet Nam. Aslso, when you look at how secret the MiG flying in the US under the Foreign Technology Evaluation Program, this would have been limited to a select group of cleared personnel.

This was probably how they trained the instructor Pilots for Top Gun!

Tim



posted on Nov, 16 2006 @ 11:01 AM
link   
Actually, numerous fighter pilots from USAF, ANG, USN and USMC units deployed to Nellis for dissimilar air combat training (DACT) against foreign aircraft operated by the 4477th TES.

The point was to expose as many operational pilots to the MiGs as possible so they would be more likely to survive in combat. This training paid off during operation Desert Storm.



posted on Nov, 16 2006 @ 11:09 AM
link   
Maybe I'm just uneducated .... well, okay, I am uneducated.

But I thought the USAF provided the MiGs for the filming of Top Gun in the '80s.

Sounds like that was disclosure then.



posted on Nov, 16 2006 @ 11:24 AM
link   
There were no Migs in Top Gun, those "MiG-28"s were F-5s



posted on Nov, 17 2006 @ 04:47 AM
link   

Originally posted by Shadowhawk
Actually, numerous fighter pilots from USAF, ANG, USN and USMC units deployed to Nellis for dissimilar air combat training . . .

The point was to expose as many operational pilots to the MiGs as possible so they would be more likely to survive in combat.



Shadowhawk,

For the record, they don't actually fly the MiGs in DACT, they simulate them with US aircraft. Watch Top Gun closely, you will here the instructors talk about flying against F-5's and A-4. The F-5 is used to Simulate air combat against the Mig 28. If you look really close, you will see that there are no Real MiGs in the movie, they are a pair of black F-5's painted with Soviet markings.

Tim

[edit on 17-11-2006 by Ghost01]



posted on Nov, 17 2006 @ 10:44 AM
link   
For the record, Ghost, you are wrong.

In the case of CONSTANT PEG, the actual Soviet aircraft (MiG-17, MiG-21, MiG-23, etc.) were used for DACT. This comes directly from USAF documents.



posted on Nov, 17 2006 @ 10:53 AM
link   

Originally posted by Shadowhawk
For the record, Ghost, you are wrong.

In the case of CONSTANT PEG, the actual Soviet aircraft (MiG-17, MiG-21, MiG-23, etc.) were used for DACT. This comes directly from USAF documents.


Out of curiosity, I've got to believe the Soviets had their own version of Constant Peg, maybe using F-14s, F-4s, F-16s, etc....

Has there ever been any evidence to suggest that was so? If not, then what did the Red Bears use to simulate combat against American forces?



posted on Nov, 17 2006 @ 04:45 PM
link   

Originally posted by Shadowhawk
For the record, Ghost, you are wrong.

In the case of CONSTANT PEG, the actual Soviet aircraft (MiG-17, MiG-21, MiG-23, etc.) were used for DACT.


I'm not perfect, and I can be wrong. Sorry if I confused anyone. I didn't realize my facts were off.

Thanks for the corection Shadowhawk!

Tim



posted on Nov, 17 2006 @ 09:17 PM
link   
In March 1984, I was a young punk F-15 pilot and brand-new first lieutenant. I was making my first trip to Nellis AFB for Red Flag. The first Monday is always Fam Day. You simply fly across the northern Nellis Ranges to become familiarized with the visual landmarks and learn which landmarks will keep you out of the Container (Area 51). On Tuesday, I was on the schedule for this thing called Constant Peg. I was disappointed not to be on the Red Flag schedule but the squadron old craniums told me Constant Peg would be OK. My flightlead and I arrived at the Red Eagle's location at Nellis (an old building from the 1950s). There I got inbriefed into the program and signed away my first-born male heir. I was not married at the time and had no kids (that I knew of) and I still don't have any sons. Later that day, I got to fly 2 sorties against MiG-21s. What a great Air Force!!
The first sortie was called a performance profile. You got paired up with a MiG and flew manuevers to see the relative performance of your aircraft versus the MiG. The second sortie started out as 2 F-15s versus 2 MiG-21s. After one engagement, we got to split up into separate 1 versus 1 offensive and defensive maneuvering. The MiG-21 was no match for the F-15 (no surprise there). Three years later, as a fairly new F-5E Aggressor pilot, I got to fly a couple of times against the MiG-23 and a couple of times against the MiG-21. The Flogger was also not very good but the F-5E and the MiG-21 were fairly evenly matched in a maneuvering fight. The F-5's advantages were a bit more fuel and better handling qualities.
The commanders of the 64th and 65th Aggressor Squadron and the commander of the 4477th all had the same boss - the 57th Fighter Weapons Wing Director of Adversary Tactics. The ways into the 4477th were to be a Top Gun graduate, USAF Fighter Weapons School graduate or a USAF Aggressor pilot.
From 2002 to 2004, I was commander of the aforementioned Det 3 / 53d TEG (aka Red Eagles). I had the unit's history in my personal safe. In the 10 years from 1979 to 1988, over 6800 fighter aircrews were exposed to the the threat in a DACT environment. You can attempt to make some correlation to the Red Eagle's old mission to the new. Don't; you'll only be wrong and I'll neither confirm or deny any guess you would care to make.



posted on Nov, 17 2006 @ 10:26 PM
link   
Thanks, fulcrumflyer!

Any idea when DET 2, 57th WG became DET 3, 53 TEG?

I've been trying to find a DET 3, 53 TEG patch for my collection. So far no luck.

Interesting that the RED EAGLES changed their mission. The RED HATS changed their mission to EW Test when they became the 413 FLTS.



posted on Nov, 17 2006 @ 10:52 PM
link   
SH,
Det 2 / 57th WG became Det 3 / 53 TEG sometime in 1996 when all USAF operational testing was put under one roof - the 53d Wing at Eglin Air Force Base. The 57th Test Group at Nellis was deactivated and the 53rd Test and Evaluation Group was moved to Nellis to oversee operational testing of Predator, Global Hawk plus all fighter and bomber aircraft in the USAF inventory. The timeframe is my best guess as I was flying the MiG-29 as an exchange pilot in Germany in 1996 and was out of touch with organizational changes at Nellis. It is a fairly confident guess however.
Developmental testers ensure new hardware, software and weapons are safe to operate on the aircraft. These aircrews are typically graduates of some test pilot program. Operational testers ensure the new toys meet the needs of the warfighters and can be used to kill people and break things. These aircrews are typically graduates of the USAF Weapons School.
A U2U with an address will get you a Det 3 / 53 TEG patch. Free of course; I've got plenty.



new topics

top topics



 
0
<<   2  3 >>

log in

join