TOA???

Hello, my name's Richard and I've came across your forum on Google hoping someone here could help me with something. A few days ago while i was at work I overheard two of my colleagues talking about some secret temple called the TOA. Has anyone ever heard of this? I know you hear a lot of crap being said day by day that doesn't really mean anything (especially if you work in a call centre like me!) but these guys were acting real strange, and when I asked what they were talking about, really polite like I am, they both made excuses and disappeared upstairs. Please if anyone can help with this or knows what TOA means I'd really appreciate it if you could enlighten me.

Thank you for your time,
Richard.

maybe this will help

one TOA

If greywolf's id'd the correct "TOA", it looks like its a role playing type of game. They might've run off because they were embarrased.

Do you think that they might've said "OTO" instead? Longshot, but perhaps you misheard or mixed things up after hearing?

What else were they saying, that might be helpful.

Were they talking about Tao? (a chinese philosophy/religion)

It is pronouced "Ta-oh", althought they could have used the chinese pronouciation, which would sound more like "dow"

[edit on 14/11/06 by ConspiracyNut23]

Originally posted by Nygdan
If greywolf's id'd the correct "TOA", it looks like its a role playing type of game. They might've run off because they were embarrased.

Do you think that they might've said "OTO" instead? Longshot, but perhaps you misheard or mixed things up after hearing?

What else were they saying, that might be helpful.

Another possibility is B.O.T.A.

www.bota.org...

rich where are you located. maybe that could shed some light on what TOA they were talking about.

Originally posted by rotarychris7
rich where are you located. maybe that could shed some light on what TOA they were talking about.

Very true, also how old are the gentelmen in question? That should answer a lot too* If they are early mid twenties, it probably is a game of some sort they were speaking of, if they are older, it could be a organization

Gosh, so many replies, you guys are really helpful thank you

A few questions have been raised, I'm going to try and answer them for you.

Greywolf: I checked that link you posted, I don't think it's to do with an online game.

Nygdan: It definitely wasn't OTO. One of the gents in question was talking about borrowing "money from the temple" (his exact words) and the other said something along the lines of "I'll be an adept by the end of the month" which is where I was sure they was talking about a society of some sort. (I thought maybe they were both Mormons till I heard the acronym TOA used). Other phrases I picked out "going to the temple tonight" and most curiously "take the test and you'll find out". There seemed to be a bit of competition or rivalry between the two.

Appak: I'm 100% certain it was TOA.

Rotarychris7: I'm located in Newcastle-upon-Tyne.

Spores from Space: The gent who said "take the test and you'll find out" is slightly younger than 25 I think. The other fellow is about 40.

I hope this is useful information. I never really spoke to these guys all that much to begin with but now whenever they see me, even from the other end of the call centre they change direction and go the long way round. If I change direction with them, they stop, look around for a bit then go back the other way. It's quite comical actually

Hm, this is in NYC, but maybe it's somehow affiliated with the TOA these two gentlemen were referring to. This is a Wiccan temple of some sort:

www.templeofara.org...

Other than that any reference to a TOA temple is in one of three different video games.

Interesting, so its an organization that uses Temples, has the Rank of Adept, and administers tests for one purpose or another. Interesting.

Can you tell us what city this was in? We might be able to find out other mainline occult organizations there and then be able to see if any of those main ones have sidebranches of associations with a "TOA".

Who was saying that they will be an adept by the end of the month, the 25 or 41 year old?

What day of the week was this (or even better, what date), that might be informative since they were having a meeting that day.

How whacked would it be to be able to figure out what group they're in and then jsut tell them "You know, you don't have to keep quite about the Temple of Apothis, heck, I'm a Grande Poobah myself. Now go get me a coffee peons!"



What does anyone else think about "Adept" rank, would it be introductory or advanced? I can see it as being either.

I found a reference to an "Adept" rank that has neither anything to do with TOA or the place you mentioned, but it is rather a rank in the Temple of Set founded by Michael Aquino who is a psychological specialist in the US Army. Maybe if we could find out where he got the idea for this rank name it would help. Hey it only costs $80 a year to be a member of his Temple!

everything2.com...

Adept also appears to be a rank achieved in a certain form of martial arts:

www.uma-mn.com...

The Magickal Order of Golden Dawn also has an Adept Rank, and one of the things they do is start their own temples to advance in rank:

magickalorder.com...

[edit on 15/11/06 by an3rkist]

Originally posted by Nygdan

What does anyone else think about "Adept" rank, would it be introductory or advanced? I can see it as being either.

In most cases Adept would indicate some level of mastery of the subject matter. This can be anything from a "master" to someone who just finished the student or learning grades.

Thanks cug, that does seem more likely.

perhaps Appak has hit it. read several of the pages on his link i see references to
temples of different things, especially a Temple in Los Angles Ca.

Maybe they were referencinga group with in BOTA in the local area as A Temple of Adytum. A ToA?
yes dates would be a help.

The OP is insisting it wasn't BOTA, but greywolf's idea might be plausiable.

From this page:

www.mikecrowson.co.uk...
I actually have the title Adept in one of the Orders I belong to[...] The Builders of the Adytum give similar lessons but do have exams which are marked, instruct you to keep a diary, colour your own Plain Tarot, etc.

He seems to belong to other groups though, so I don't know if Adept is a grade/degree within the BOTA, but its interesting to note that they do have tests, which seems to jive with the statements that there was a test from the people the OP overheard.

I can't find what the names of the degrees/grades in BOTA are, but it looks like its a splinter group of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, with the 'enochian' magic removed, and either as such or for some other reason, only retains the lower degrees. The HOGD has something caled "Adeptus Minor" as one of its lower grades, so that suggests it might have a grade called "adept" or some such.

Anyone KNOW what the BOTA grades are?

[edit on 15-11-2006 by Nygdan]

Originally posted by Nygdan
I can't find what the names of the degrees/grades in BOTA are, but it looks like its a splinter group of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, with the 'enochian' magic removed, and either as such or for some other reason, only retains the lower degrees. The HOGD has something caled "Adeptus Minor" as one of its lower grades, so that suggests it might have a grade called "adept" or some such.

The Adeptus Minor is not one of the lower grades of the Golden Dawn, in fact when you reach Adeptus Minor you are no longer in the Golden Dawn (the outer order), it's the "first" grade of the inner order (the Rosae Rubeae et Aureae Crucis). The term HOGD just became sort of a generic name for the whole system.

But in any case ( ) I believe B.O.T.A. shares the same grade system of the Golden Dawn up to 5=6

0=0 Neophyte
1=10 Zelator
2=9 Theoricus
3=8 Practicus
4=7 Philosophus
(portal)
5=6 Adeptus Minor

+ some purely leadership grades (and they might be more of a title than a grade.)

Masonic Light could answer this question better (he is a member).

But to get back on topic. I really don't think it's B.O.T.A. it just doesn't "feel" like it to me. (How's that for an authoritative answer )

[edit on 11/15/2006 by Cug]

Originally posted by Cug
The Adeptus Minor is not one of the lower grades of the Golden Dawn, in fact when you reach Adeptus Minor you are no longer in the Golden Dawn (the outer order), it's the "first" grade of the inner order (the Rosae Rubeae et Aureae Crucis).

Ah, my mistake. I took the 'minor' part to mean it was in the outer system.

But in any case (

) I believe B.O.T.A. shares the same grade system of the Golden Dawn up to 5=6
5=6 Adeptus Minor

Hmm, so if they do, and this is bota, the person in the story was going to complete the system within a month.

I really don't think it's B.O.T.A. it just doesn't "feel" like it to me.

\
What about it doesn't jive? The lending money from the temple? The calling of the lodge a temple?

Originally posted by Nygdan
What about it doesn't jive? The lending money from the temple? The calling of the lodge a temple?

Both those and just about all of the rest.

lending money - That really is not done much if at all, most occult groups have problems allready just covering costs and really can't afford to be banks for the members. If you look at B.O.T.A. their income is from books (mostly P.F. Case's), and dues ($12.00 a month) if you multiply it by a few thousand members that really is not all that much.

Temple = From my understanding B.O.T.A. only has one temple (located in L.A. CA) the rest of the local bodies are called study groups, or Pronaos

Some other things that rule out B.O.T.A. to me.

The only B.O.T.A. group in the UK is in London, the other side of the country from where the poster is located.

It sounds to me that the younger of the two is already an "adept" by telling the other "wait till the test". You have to be 21 to join B.O.T.A. and it takes years (10+) to get to the "top".

In general, talking about your rank is considered rude for the most part. (other than an occasional wow what an experience comments)

The idea that there would be some competition in achieving higher ranks is silly.

The idea that they would clam up when asked about it.. in most cases someone in an occult order would say they were talking about a fraternal group or club they belonged to. The might not give out full information (TMI in most cases), but they won't run and hide.

I have a feeling that they are part of a on-line gaming guild or maybe a LARP

Originally posted by Cug


0=0 Neophyte
1=10 Zelator
2=9 Theoricus
3=8 Practicus
4=7 Philosophus
(portal)
5=6 Adeptus Minor

+ some purely leadership grades (and they might be more of a title than a grade.)

Masonic Light could answer this question better (he is a member).

The Golden Dawn grade structure was itself borrowed from the Masonic Rosicrucian Society, of which the founding members of the Golden Dawn were members. The major difference is that in the Masonic Rosicrucian Society, there is no tenth degree, or Grade of Ipsisismus, with the Ninth Degree being the highest.

The Builders of the Adytum, or B.O.T.A., possess the same knowledge and lineage as the Golden Dawn, but is not divided up into a degree system. Brother Case (in a moment of divine wisdom, IMO) recognized that one of the chief problems with the Golden Dawn was all the paring for rank. Therefore, Case believed if rank were eliminated, so would all the petty jealousies be that had plagued the G.'.D.'.

sorry people only a short reply:
But could he mean..Newcastle upon tyne in the UK? and not Newcastle N.Y.

Maybe this will shed some more light on the subject?