Minimum wage increased for Americans? Really?

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posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 03:22 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
The only people who benefit from an increased minimum wage are the politicians. When businesses have to pay their employees more, the increase is passed on to consumers.


Oh, please don't forget about the former retiree working behind the counter to supplement his/her social security check.


Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
When the pot washer gets a pay raise, the dishwasher wants one, too. When the dishwasher gets a raise the cook wants one, too. When the cook gets a pay raise, the manager wants one, too, and because profit margins for small businesses are so small, the business owner has to raise prices and the impact reverberates through the economy so rapidly that within six months of the raise, the minimum wage earners have lost the benefit of the increased wages.


We'll they'll all get one if they're all making the minimum.


Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
This observation is based on my own personal experience. I've seen it happen several times in my lifetime and there have been no exceptions.


Prices are raised all the time. McDonalds just increased the price for a value meal. The minimum wage is designed in part to protect low paid workers from inflation.


Originally posted by gradyPhilpott
The same principle goes for taxes. People complain about tax cuts for the rich, but the fact is that the rich provide the capital that fuels the economy. When the rich and corporations have less money to invest, the economy and wage earners suffer. When business gets an tax increase, the tax increase gets passed along to the consumer, so the little guy takes a double whammy.


Oh please, supply side economics is pure and utter crap. Was it supply side economics that got us out of the depression? And the wealthy get little sympathy from me. There are so many loop holes in the Federal tax code Bill Gates could end up getting away with paying the same rate the poorest Americans do(around 10%)if he wanted to. A flat tax would be preferrable to that at least you'd save on tax collection then.

If you cut out the subsidies to the wealthy you'd get back about $700 billion. Bye, bye budget deficit. And after you took care of the deficit you could focus on the debt and make sure all our veterans from Iraq are taken care of. Or we can just keep on doing what we've been doing, continue to sell ourselves to the Chinese that is. But hey after all being a superpower isn't what its all cracked to be. But rest assured America. George Bush, Dick Cheney and all of our Neo-Con heros who heroically sent the cream of American youth into glorious battle(without adequate body armour)won't ever have to worry about a thing.




posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by danwild6
Oh, please don't forget about the former retiree working behind the counter to supplement his/her social security check.


How could I? I work for $5.15 an hour, plus tips, to supplement my disability pension.



We'll [sic] they'll all get one if they're all making the minimum.


It happens every time.



Oh please....


Oh, please!

Go out and get a minimum wage job and then you can tell me what happens to your increase six months from now.

I'd be willing to bet you've never worked for minimum wage, or if you did, you were living at home or some other such arrangement, so you're only spouting the party line, with your perfunctory jabs at the administration and Iraq.


[edit on 2006/11/14 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 03:37 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
The problem is that more and more jobs that were the ones that supported middle class American are gone.


Well I fail to see how a rise in the minimum wage will affect middle class jobs.


Originally posted by marg6043
The job grow that we hear so much about are not even a fraction of what many middle class Americans were making on salaries.


Well then I'd start by raising the minimum wage and kick US industry in the rear. Detroit is in the trouble it is because they don't adapt. Japan kicked down the door to the US automarket 30yrs ago but Detroit stuck head in the sand and wished it wasn't true. Well it is and instead of calling the patriotism of the American people inot question because they want to buy a quality car why don't you build a car that an American can be proud to say that it was built in the US of A.


Originally posted by marg6043
A minimum hour job is no going to benefit people that are on salaries and a minimum wage hardly can fed a family now a days without depending on the system for additional help.


No but it could feed the person working it.


Originally posted by marg6043
If the illegals get amnesty and work permits, many will also be able to depend on te social welfare system.


Or help them get off it.


Originally postedby marg6043
Now will that be more weight to the burden that our nation is already facing?


Turn it around. More people making more money increasing the tax base.


Originally posted by marg6043
How many people will take a minimum wage job to support a family? one job is no enough to support a family in our nation on minimum wage without social welfare.


Most migrants that work for minimum wage have an extended family that share the burden. And of course a most migrants will work more than one job.


originally posted by marg6043
So who will benefit from an increase in wages? perhaps teens, young people still living at home, and a few others and occurs immigrants if they get to have amnesty and workers permit.


And Fubu, McDonalds, music labels basically anyone selling stuff teenagers and people in general want to buy. Look at it this way Bill Gates can only buy so much. Because he probably only wants to buy so much.


Originally posted by marg6043
See my point.


Yeah I do. Do you see mine?



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 03:45 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
How could I? I work for $5.15 an hour, plus tips, to supplement my disability pension.


We're in a very similar position.


Originally posted by gradyPhilpott
Oh, please!

Go out and get a minimum wage job and then you can tell me what happens to your increase six months from now.


The same thing that happens regardless. The federal government last raised the minimum wage 10yrs ago. I was in high school and could buy a mcdonalds value meal for under $4.00 now you can't get for under $5.00. Prices go up every year regardless of the minimum wage.


Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
I'd be willing to bet you've never worked for minimum wage, or if you did, you were living at home or some other such arrangement, so you're only spouting the party line, with your perfunctory jabs at the administration and Iraq.


Subway, McDonalds, Kmart done them all.



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 03:58 PM
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Originally posted by danwild6


Well then I'd start by raising the minimum wage and kick US industry in the rear. Detroit is in the trouble it is because they don't adapt. Japan kicked down the door to the US automarket 30yrs ago but Detroit stuck head in the sand and wished it wasn't true. Well it is and instead of calling the patriotism of the American people inot question because they want to buy a quality car why don't you build a car that an American can be proud to say that it was built in the US of A.



This is rediculous...

It has nothing to do with good quality cars. The imported cars are cheaper to make because the workers are paid less, therefore they are cheaper to buy. If we decided to pay next to nothing to our American workers we could make and sell cheap cars too. Instead the American companies who kept their business in America and paid the American workers fair wages, and are going out of business because of it. Sad story, but it's the truth.

As for raising the minimum wage, I see it this way:
This is only going to encourage MORE hiring of illegals, as the companies don't care to pay the already cheap minimum wage to the legal workers. Why in the world would they want to pay even more? Don't forget that when you hire someone legally, you not only pay their wages, but you also pay the state, and your insurance company for the liability.
If it ended up being beneficial it would be for a very short time anyways. Much like what Grady said, if the pot washer gets a raise, why shouldn't the manager? Does inflation not affect the manager the same way it does the pot washer? I make around $20 an hour, and if minimum wage is raised, it basically washes a few bucks right off the value of my paycheck as soon as inflation hits. Its a pretty rough cycle.



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 04:02 PM
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Originally posted by danwild6

We're in a very similar position.

Subway, McDonalds, Kmart done them all.


Then, I would think that you would have observed what I have. Having had to live on minimum wage or very close to it for most of my adult life, I would love it if raises in the minimum wage had a real impact on my quality of life, but they don't and never have.

The last time they raised the minimum wage, I was working as a security guard and preparing to go to graduate school. My wage went up and so did the price of everything else, leaving me in worse shape than I was in before.

I don't see how it will be any different now.

Actually, I'm working the job I have now, not because I have to, but because I want to. I still need to supplement my income, but I could work less and make more, if I didn't enjoy what I do so much. That's a luxury I never had in my earlier life.

[edit on 2006/11/14 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 04:05 PM
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Everyone making 5.15 an hour right now, duh. Illegal workers included, but hey, that's the system right?

Ohio passed a great law, the minimum wage will be increased every year to adjust to inflation, so that inflation cannot leave the minimum wage folks behind.. like it did in the 90's - 06 .. it was never adjusted.

Personally, Ohio's $6.85 is a great raise but the "livable minimum wage" - that is the wage necessary for a comfortable life right now is between 8.00-8.50 .. of course 6.85 is great, if you once made 5.15 anyways.. but honestly.. you cannot live off that either.

Who benefits hmmm it is not that big of a raise, you cannot live on your own making it, and all the products we buy will be inflated once more.. which adversely effects me because since I make a few dollars above minimum wage mine won't raise at all.
Who knows. I am beginning to dislike capitalism.



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 04:08 PM
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Originally posted by YoBrandonRaps
This is rediculous...

It has nothing to do with good quality cars. The imported cars are cheaper to make because the workers are paid less, therefore they are cheaper to buy. If we decided to pay next to nothing to our American workers we could make and sell cheap cars too. Instead the American companies who kept their business in America and paid the American workers fair wages, and are going out of business because of it. Sad story, but it's the truth.


Well actually Americans autos are cheap. There just crap. American cars have the worst resale value of any major auto industrty. Japanese cars took 39 of 47 places on the Consumer Reports reliability rankings. Your telling me German and Japanese workers are paid less? No if anything they're paid more. They just build a more quality machine.



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 04:37 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
I am beginning to dislike capitalism.


Capitalism isn't really the problem. With constraints, capitalism really works great. What fouls it up is politicians who seek advantage by appealing to the naive and less intellectually endowed among us. (No offense intended.)



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 06:49 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
Everyone making 5.15 an hour right now, duh. Illegal workers included, but hey, that's the system right?

Ohio passed a great law, the minimum wage will be increased every year to adjust to inflation, so that inflation cannot leave the minimum wage folks behind.. like it did in the 90's - 06 .. it was never adjusted.

Personally, Ohio's $6.85 is a great raise but the "livable minimum wage" - that is the wage necessary for a comfortable life right now is between 8.00-8.50 .. of course 6.85 is great, if you once made 5.15 anyways.. but honestly.. you cannot live off that either.

Who benefits hmmm it is not that big of a raise, you cannot live on your own making it, and all the products we buy will be inflated once more.. which adversely effects me because since I make a few dollars above minimum wage mine won't raise at all.
Who knows. I am beginning to dislike capitalism.



I hear ya. $6.75 here is good compared to the natl average,but its not livable minimum wage. Luckily the only places in my city that pay this are fast food places,except in and out,they start at $9. I remember hearing some time back that in '07 the wage is gonna get bumped up to about $7.25 here.



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 06:57 PM
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Originally posted by danwild6

Originally posted by YoBrandonRaps
This is rediculous...

It has nothing to do with good quality cars. The imported cars are cheaper to make because the workers are paid less, therefore they are cheaper to buy. If we decided to pay next to nothing to our American workers we could make and sell cheap cars too. Instead the American companies who kept their business in America and paid the American workers fair wages, and are going out of business because of it. Sad story, but it's the truth.


Well actually Americans autos are cheap. There just crap. American cars have the worst resale value of any major auto industrty. Japanese cars took 39 of 47 places on the Consumer Reports reliability rankings. Your telling me German and Japanese workers are paid less? No if anything they're paid more. They just build a more quality machine.




What is an American car?

Lets take the Ford Mustang, far more then 50% of the Mustang is constructed within America's borders, mainly built in Mexico. Where as, Honda has more production facilities inside the United States then Ford. The Honda models are far more "American" then the domestic cars are.



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 07:16 PM
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I try to support our economy and yes I own a mustang and a new one to the fact. My husband own a monte carlo and my daughter's car is a ford focus, but my son has a mitsubishi.

Still in the last past 20 years we have bought only American cars, even when everything in it is made somewhere else.

Does anybody else support American brands?

I still stand by my point minimum wages will benefit the immigration reform recipients that will be heading our way some time during the next year or so.



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 07:20 PM
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I drive a Chevy. Its crap. Il never buy another one.

Aside from that I don't consider Ford American simply because it's headquarters is in America.

To be American to me, your workers must work in America. So what is the top level, highest paid officials at Ford Motor work here, if all the little guys (30,000 last year) get laid off so they can get bigger pay checks becuase they move to Mexico. They are building a new Honda plant about an hours drive from where I live. I think I will buy a Honda.



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 07:39 PM
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It is a sad day when all American companies are starting to move out of the country.
When i went to an air show i bought a t shirt about an American plane and the t shirt was made in Nicaragua. WTF.



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 07:43 PM
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Originally posted by spinstopshere
When i went to an air show i bought a t shirt about an American plane and the t shirt was made in Nicaragua. WTF.


Don't feel bad that is the American way but we lost the dream a way back.


Now that US has China as the second country from whom it borrows we have the markets saturated with China made goods.

What a dream.



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 07:54 PM
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no net gain.

Wages up, prices up.

You work an hour to make enough to buy a nice dinner.
you will still work an hour to buy a nice dinner.

The real effect will be on those that are paid ABOVE the minimum wage.
Their wages will be worth less than before.

On a sidenote..Don't kids work their way through college anymore?
I worked lots of crappy jobs to pay my tuition.
Grocery Clerk, Painter, landscaper, tobacco cutter, Greenskeeper..
Stuff like that..all for low pay.



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 09:43 PM
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Originally posted by spacedoubt
On a sidenote..Don't kids work their way through college anymore?
I worked lots of crappy jobs to pay my tuition.
Grocery Clerk, Painter, landscaper, tobacco cutter, Greenskeeper..
Stuff like that..all for low pay.


I would have love to have you as my son anytime.


My daughter is in her fifth year of college and has not worked a day in her life.


Yes many are right increase in wages means higher cost of living.



posted on Nov, 15 2006 @ 07:46 AM
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The key for the US manufacturing is to move up the technological ladder. Imagine if a manufacturer of bull whips was able to stop Henry ford buildimnng automobiles. would the average worker have been better off?



Interestingly, during the automotive boom, wages for Ford's automotive workers were low to such an extent that it created an economic crash. Ford discovered that he could only sell his cars if people could afford to buy them. It was only after Ford increased wages to his workers that the economic boom of the automotive industry took place. Had Ford been alive today, he would be relieved to know that his market is not dependent on domestic soil.

It takes about 20$ an hour to afford a one bedroom apartment at approximately 800$ (for a cheap one) a month here in Canuckistan, in addition to eating and wearing clothes. Never mind the dentist and the cost of medicine.
The minimum wage recently went up from $6.85 to $7.15 an hour - that ought to help.
Nearly all the jobs in the pink ghetto are minimum wage, part-time, no benefits. Even half the nurses in Canada work only part time so employers can avoid benefits.

It's a ruse.

All hail Ford.

[edit on 15-11-2006 by clearwater]



posted on Nov, 15 2006 @ 09:29 AM
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Then you wonder how our nation has become a nation of consumers when so many people live on minimum wage or just under 15 dollars an hour.

Lets say we are not only a nation of consumers but also big credit card spenders.

How can a society and a nation can make it like this and for how long, the illusion will last.



posted on Nov, 15 2006 @ 09:59 AM
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Minimum wage is a politician's tool to pull at the heart strings of people - a superficial means to appear to be "helping" the community. Minimum wages are not an answer, they are an advertisement for political gain. Why? Most economic models show a set increase in minimum wage raises prices [i.e. the cost of living]. Those who would benefit from an increase in pay end up having to pay more for for the things that they need. And the worst part of it is: those who do not benefit from the increase of pay ALSO have to pay more for the things they need.

A higher mandatory wage creates more incentives for businesses to leave an area or country simply because the area is no longer competitive. Why do business in a location that costs you more? As a business, you have to remain competitive. We see that just within states: a large amount of businesses are leaving California simply because of their fiscal policies (taxes, minimum wage, cost of living, etc.).

Does everyone remember that FX show "Thirty Days?" One of the shows was to attempt to live on minimum wage for thirty days. Oddly enough, they could not find a job anywhere in the city for minimum wage, with the lowest being 7-something an hour.





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