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US is top purveyor on weapons sales list

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posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 06:19 AM
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The Boston Globe



Washington - The United States last year provided nearly half of the weapons sold to militaries in the developing world, as major arms sales to the most unstable regions - many already engaged in conflict - grew to the highest level in eight years, new US government figures show.

According to the annual assessment, the United States supplied $8.1 billion worth of weapons to developing countries in 2005 - 45.8 percent of the total and far more than second-ranked Russia with 15 percent and Britain with a little more than 13 percent.

Arms control specialists said the figures underscore how the largely unchecked arms trade to the developing world has become a major staple of the American weapons industry, even though introducing many of the weapons risks fueling conflicts rather than aiding long-term US interests.

The report was compiled by the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service.

"We are at a point in history where many of these sales are not essential for the self-defense of these countries and the arms being sold continue to fuel conflicts and tensions in unstable areas," said Daryl G. Kimball , executive director of the nonpartisan Arms Control Association in Washington. "It doesn't make much sense over the long term."

The United States, for instance, also signed an estimated $6.2 billion worth of new deals last year to sell attack helicopters, missiles, and other armaments to developing nations such as the United Arab Emirates, Pakistan, India, Israel, Egypt, Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia. Developing nations are designated as all those except in North America, Western Europe, Russia, Australia, and New Zealand.

A study last year by the progressive World Policy Institute found that the United States transferred weaponry to 18 of the 25 countries involved in an ongoing war.

"From Angola, Chad, and Ethiopia, to Colombia, Pakistan, and the Philippines, transfers through the two largest US arms sales programs [Foreign Military sales and Commercial Sales] to these conflict nations totaled nearly $1 billion in 2003," the report found.

Meanwhile, more than half of the countries buying US arms - 13 of the 25 - were defined as undemocratic by the State Department's annual Human Rights Report, including top recipients Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Kuwait, the United Arab Emirates, and Uzbekistan.

So there you have it People;

Top Warprofiteer remaind the United States.

Not only that the US sell weapons to developing world, but also to countries, which are defined UN-democratic by the State Department, have numerous Human Rights Violations and above all, many countries, which are involved in an ongoig conflict.

Billions of Dollars are being made in this business of selling arms, and it looks like the US is yet again making nasty profits out of other people misery, war and suffering.

This dominance of the Global Arms Market is definelty NOT something in which the American public or policy makers should take pride in. But nevertheless, the US routinely sells weapons to undemocratic regimes and gross human rights abusers.

Peace does NOT sell these days.




posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 07:01 AM
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Big deal Souljah, if the US didnt sell them, Russia, China or any other host of countrys would.

Welcome to the new world order son, a state of perpetual Warfare, Humanity is now on a crash course with destiny.

May Peace be With You.



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 07:19 AM
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Originally posted by NumberCruncher
Big deal Souljah, if the US didnt sell them, Russia, China or any other host of countrys would.

Well actually it IS a big deal, if you are playing the role of World-Cop, which roams around the Globe, spreading Peace & Democracy to "opressed" countries. How can you spread Peace, when you are selling weapons to countries with several Human Rights Violations and to states, which actually Hate democracy?



Welcome to the new world order son, a state of perpetual Warfare, Humanity is now on a crash course with destiny.

Yeah I know - You always GET what you GIVE...



May Peace be With You.

And May the Force be With You.



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 05:01 PM
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We're not spreading peace and democracy. Are you high? It's a world takeover. It's war after war for world domination. It's not our problem if leaders abuse their citizens. They'll be taken over eventually, don't worry. The New World Order is coming. Ah, hell, who am I kidding, it's already here. This is life now. Everybody kill everybody. Fight for your life. The world is over. Checkmate.



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 05:11 PM
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I always quote what I read one time several years ago about a contrast between Japanese culture and the US; Japan has seven times as many engineers as the US does per capita and one seventh the number of lawyers.

That is why the auto industry moved to Japan... American industry is disappearing and bureaucracy and injustice reign supreme in the US.



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 09:20 PM
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But the U.S. is SUPPOSEDLY spreading peace and democracy... or so it has claimed when it initiated countless wars in modern history.

This basically shows how grave the hypocrisy is. The Vietnam war, Korean war, Iraq - all were fought because of one thing - Spreading "freedom, democracy, and peace."

[edit on 14-11-2006 by k4rupt]



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 10:57 PM
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Wow, all I had to do is do a google search and this was the first thing that popped up..... A Yahoo story that said Russia was the #1 supplier to the developing world in 2005 and France was #2. The USA could only pull in the bronze medal.

Yahoo Link

Seems we have a problem here. The definition of developing nation needs to be clarified here.

So Russia and France are the war profiteers aren't they? You need to get your facts straight, and not ALWAYS see the USA as the #1 jerk. But we know that will never never never never never happen will it...The hate is so obvious!

The post about auto industry moving because of the number of lawyers is showing some messed up logic.

So if the USA has 7 times the number of strippers in night clubs, and Japan has 7 times the number of Tuna boat captains per capita, then the USA is going to lose the Napa Valley wine industry to Japan?

Yeah.........



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 11:07 PM
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LOL nice work SBOB.

It didnt even occur to me to confirm Souljahs propaganda which is a silly mistake considering his complete hatred of the US.



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 11:44 PM
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If you can't discuss the topic without discussing your fellow members, kindly refrain from posting at all.

I know it's easier for you to lay the blame at Souljah's feet than it is to take issue with the Boston Globe's reportage, or to research the facts for yourself, but you're going to have to make the effort.

Seriously...

I think what's alarming is the fact that we can't get a straight answer from our media.

Also, the Yahoo article fails to mention this:


In addition to weapons already delivered, new contracts for future weapons deliveries topped $44 billion last year -- the highest overall since 1998, according to the report. Nearly 70 percent of them were designated for developing nations.


I don't know if this explains the discrepancy or not, or even if it's a real figure. I haven't yet been able to find the report to read it myself, and I'm not going to have time to do it tonight.

Regardless, the point is this:

The purpose of ATS is to deny ignorance - to LEARN. So why don't we try that for a change, instead of this nationalistic pissing-contest nonsense that constantly crops up. We all have a similar need - the need for information.

Let's try to figure out the discrepancy in the statistics together, shall we?

It's not a damn boxing ring, it's a library (ostensibly) full of scholars. Please keep that in mind.

Thank you.

sbob
If your goal is to dispel a logical fallacy, it's best to refrain from relying on one to make your point.

The point about lawyers is valid, IMO, because it speaks to the danger of saturating the market with non-productive labor - labor that, in fact, reduces production. An engineer is a producer, a lawyer is not. The auto industry needs producers if it's going to be profitable. Simple logic.




[edit on 14-11-2006 by WyrdeOne]



posted on Nov, 15 2006 @ 12:20 AM
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Originally posted by WyrdeOne
If you can't discuss the topic without discussing your fellow members, kindly refrain from posting at all.

I know it's easier for you to lay the blame at Souljah's feet than it is to take issue with the Boston Globe's reportage, or to research the facts for yourself, but you're going to have to make the effort.

Thanks for that, Wyrde.

It's becoming all to comon practice on these boards to scream at members for being "Anti-American" or to question the right that outsiders have to make observations than actually adressing the issues presented.

That's bad!

On topic: does it matter if the US is the first, second, or third largest supplier of leathel tools for claiming human lives? If the goal is to spread peace and security throughout the world, why would you sell a single device for slaughter to any non-allied nation or group? You know that those weapons will eventually end up in "the worng hands" (Don't ask me who the "right hands" are, 'cause I couldn't tell ya).

The simple answer is obvious; the goal isn't peace... it's profit.



posted on Nov, 15 2006 @ 01:14 AM
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I've found the report in question.

It's a PDF file - Conventional Arms Transfers to Developing Nations, 1998-2005

Both articles are correct. The US leads in actual deliveries during 2005 and Russia leads in transfer agreements in 2005.

Page 61 of the report has the agreements figures and page 65 has the delivery figures, both in current US dollars.



posted on Nov, 15 2006 @ 01:27 AM
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Thank you very much Duzey.

Your efforts are very much appreciated.



posted on Nov, 15 2006 @ 06:12 AM
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Actually some people did not even bother to read the article I originally posted;

It goes like this:


The United States last year provided nearly half of the weapons sold to militaries in the DEVEOLOPING world, as major arms sales to the most UNSTABLE regions - many already ENGAGED IN CONFLICT - grew to the highest level in eight years, new US government figures show.

I emphasized the words, that I wanted to stand out.

And if you read the report, mister Duzey provided, you will see that.

Furthermore;


The Arms Industry

From 1998 to 2001, the USA, the UK, and France earned more income from arms sales to developing countries than they gave in aid.

The arms industry is unlike any other. It operates without regulation. It suffers from widespread corruption and bribes. And it makes its profits on the back of machines designed to kill and maim human beings.

So who profits most from this murderous trade? The five permanent members of the UN Security Council—the USA, UK, France, Russia, and China. Together, they are responsible for eighty eight per cent of reported conventional arms exports.

“We can’t have it both ways. We can’t be both the world’s leading champion of peace and the world’s leading supplier of arms.” Former US President Jimmy Carter, presidential campaign, 1976

So as you can see, the top members of so-called UN Security council are actually also top warprofiteers, and they all are responsible for 88% of arms exports; mainly to developed and unstable countries with human rights violations and ongoing conflicts.

And as mister Carter pointed out - the USA can not have it both ways; be the leading "Champion of Peace" and top arms supplier. Because on the list of top 5 warprofiteers, there is just one Nation, who right now has around 160.000 troops in Iraq and several thousands of others over-seas promoting Peace and Democracy and with the other hand, they are selling weapons to unstable conflict areas. The other 4 are not doing that right now. That was my point.


A Risky Business; U.S. Arms Exports To Countries Where Terror Thrives

In the period of 1990-1999, the United States supplied 16 of the 18 countries on the [U.S.] State Department list with arms through the government-to-government sales under the Foreign Military Sales (FMS) program, or through industry contracted Direct Commercial Sales (DCS) programs, or with military assistance. Recipients included Algeria, Iraq, Lebanon, and Sri Lanka …, where, arguably, the risk of diversion is high. In addition, the U.S. military (and the CIA) has trained the forces of many of these 18 countries in U.S. war fighting tactics, in some cases including individuals now involved in terrorism.


It does not seem to matter who arms are sold to

A report from the World Policy Institute released mid-2005 has found that the U.S. is routinely funneling military aid and arms to undemocratic nations. In 2003, for which the most recent data was available at the time;

  • The United States transferred weaponry to 18 of the 25 countries involved in active conflicts;

  • More than half of the top 25 recipients of U.S. arms transfers in the developing world (13) were defined as undemocratic by the State Department;

  • When countries designated by the State Department’s Human Rights Report to have poor human rights records or serious patterns of abuse are factored in, 20 of the top 25 U.S. arms clients in the developing world in 2003—a full 80%—were either undemocratic regimes or governments with records of major human rights abuses.


Lip Magazine

In sum, the U.S. has sold weapons or training to almost 90% of the countries it has identified as harboring terrorists. A severe restructuring of U.S. arms export policy is in order, but little or nothing is being done to ensure a safer future.

So I Agree with mister BitRaiser;

The Goal here is not PEACE nor it is DEMOCRACY - but PROFIT!



posted on Nov, 15 2006 @ 11:49 AM
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Simple logic yes. I agree that more engineers is better then lawyers. But to tie it to the alleged demise of the American auto industry is a big leap, and I would like to see facts. That was my point. Don't just say yeah the US is going down and say, becuase Japan has more engineers per capita. Yes Japan has more engineers per capita, but what fields are they in. I obviously made an exaggeration to make a point in my post. (and a little bit of humor lighten up.) I find many articles like this one.
Engineers in the USA

That says if you graduate many engineers, but they might not be qualified or trained enough for the world economy. I will say Japanese engineers are pretty much some of the best in the world.


And Souljah, your last post is more accurate in the world trade of arms, and I feel would have been a better opening post. Even though it still does not list France or Russia. I have read on the sites you mention before, that most deaths are from the sales of small arms by a wide margin. (AK47 type weapons and landmines etc.) So, while a fancy F-16 may be worth several million, the shelf life of this weapon is much shorter than a AK47 and a landmine(that is buried.) This AK-47 or the landmine is going to be killing for a long time, and is not tracked after the sale. This would be really interesting to see who the biggest seller of these weapons area, as this is where the deaths are.

I would also be interested to see how China play in the arms sales in th next ten years.

I find that the 5 security council members sell the most arms, kind if ironic.

All I am giving is an alternate view to the original poster, and if I have to be bullied to agree with the original posters slant to continue to post, then the moderator is over stepping the rules.

I will not stand for someone bashing the USA, saying the USA auto industry is going down because Japan has less lawyers. That is hearsay your honor....Crap now I'm a lawyer. Sure I think lawyers suck, and these are the jobs we should be outsourcing to India. I find posts like that offensive.

I will read all sources I can on a subject that is brought up, and if I find something different keep on popping up, then I will question the posters motives. Sure the USA is a big arms seller, and many countires are profiting from others. I posted Russia and France profited more in 2005, and it wasn't the USA as originally posted. That is my view.



posted on Nov, 15 2006 @ 01:06 PM
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Good post, thank you sbob.

(You're free to disagree with anyone you like, myself included. Just refrain from personal insults, that's all we ask.)




posted on Nov, 15 2006 @ 04:05 PM
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Originally posted by sbob
And Souljah, your last post is more accurate in the world trade of arms, and I feel would have been a better opening post. Even though it still does not list France or Russia. I have read on the sites you mention before, that most deaths are from the sales of small arms by a wide margin. (AK47 type weapons and landmines etc.) So, while a fancy F-16 may be worth several million, the shelf life of this weapon is much shorter than a AK47 and a landmine(that is buried.) This AK-47 or the landmine is going to be killing for a long time, and is not tracked after the sale. This would be really interesting to see who the biggest seller of these weapons area, as this is where the deaths are.

By all means, there are powerfull countries among top5 warprofiteers. But sadly, I do not see Russia, China, France of Germany spreading Peace and Democracy across the Globe. That was my entire point. As mister Carter said, You just CAN NOT have it both ways - be the world’s leading champion of peace and the world’s leading supplier of arms. That is where I find a Problemo. Now ith all due-RESPECT, this is not a US-bashing thread. Many wicked corporations involved in arms sales do not represent the majority of the People of America. But sadly yet again, they do throw a bad light upon the entire Nation.

And yes- AK47 is the Real Weapon of Mass Destruction as you have learned. So I suggest to you, that you check out an excellent move called Lord Of War, which Perfectly represents the world Arms trade rings and who gets the bigger piece of the Pie. And do not think that the small country, where I come from - Slovenia - is an exception in the arm trading; we too have filthy and corrupt members of goverment, which have gotten richer on some elses misery and suffering. GREED sees no color my Friend.



I find that the 5 security council members sell the most arms, kind if ironic.

I find that more SICK then Ironic.





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