G.H.W. Bush Gold Mine To Destroy Local Ecology

Your derailing chatter about meaningless semantics and nitpicking nonsense has little to do with the Chileans not wanting Barrick Corp screwing up their ecosystem. No Shots, I doubt they want the world's largest open pit copper/gold/silver mine by their glaciers either. Just like you won't volunteer to drink tailings pond water and prove me wrong.

Gold Mining - a few facts= Kennecott Utah Copper Corporation mines gold too, that's a fact.
Now deal with it...

You need to start doing your own footwork rather than playing troll games:

EPA Releases: Chemical Report

EPA: Metal Mining Most Toxic Industry in America

Hard-rock mining generates more toxic waste than any other industry in the United States, according to the Environmental Protection Agency. NYT

Considering your sources are nada el zippo and I have experience in the industry and live(d) in two of the biggest mining states in the US ....maybe you should stick to something your familiar with like say...cheese.



[edit on 14-11-2006 by Regenmacher]

Originally posted by Regenmacher
Considering your sources are nada el zippo and I have experience in the industry and live(d) in two of the biggest mining states in the US ....maybe you should stick to something your familiar with like say...cheese.

Speaking of sources where is the link to back up the 4th largest gold mine???


As for sticking to something I know more about, trust me, it is more then you have, it is more then cheese, my wife has worked for 45 years in various positions up to and including executive row at one of the largest manufacturers of mining shovels


[edit on 11/14/2006 by shots]

Originally posted by shots
As for sticking to something I know more about, trust me, it is more then you have, it is more then cheese, my wife has worked for 45 years in various positions up to and including executive row at one of the largest manufacturers of mining shovels

You know little to nothing about mining, geology or even researching. I'll grant you that you do know about how to open mouth to insert foot, and you proved that by not knowing the facts in regards to the mining industry being the biggest toxic waste producers, not knowing that gold is in Cu ore and failing to provide any data sources.

Oh my bad, my memory is not as sharp as it used to be:
In 1995, the Bingham Canyon mine was the fourth-largest gold
producer in the United States utah.gov

Guess what, it's still considered a gold mine.
So does that shoe leather taste good?



[edit on 14-11-2006 by Regenmacher]

Originally posted by Regenmacher


Oh my bad, my memory is not as sharp as it used to be:
Bingham Canyon mine was the fourth-largest gold. producer in the United States. utah.gov

But that is not what you said the first time now you got caught in an error and you are changing it to the US :shk:

Bingham Canyon is also the world's 4th largest gold mine, so you really don't look into things before opening your yap, ehh?

And that was only for one year 1995 :shk:

I do not know where you come from but one years production does not qualify it as the 4th largest mine in the world let alone the US.


And kindly stop with the personal insults if you do not mind, I can assure you I have more knowledge then you ever will when it comes to the mine industry and what it does.

How many times have you spoke on their behalf in front of your state senate or the US senate/congress committees? I stopped counting 10 years ago

I know a little bit about gold mining.
Moslty the way it works in Nevada...

Gold mining is a major polluter wherever it occurs.

And yes, a lot of the byproducts are naturally occuring. but when left alone, they are relatively stable.

But it's hard to see. Just by roasting the ore at high temperature, mercury and other toxics are released into the air.

Last summer we drove around a couple of mines with a pretty fancy air sampler.
it was a spectrometer that analyzed mercury levels. On the downwind side of the mines, the numbers shot up significantly. Most of this ends up in Utah. (we were in Nevada)
The Nevada miners say it came from CHINA! yep..China..riiiight!

This mercury also showed up in fish samples, that we retrived from local fishermen.
Even some of the young fish were surprisingly high. Not sure why that is.

There are tricks that some of the mines play, as far as cleaning up after themselves.
They change ownership of the mine, and rename it. In some cases this resets the clock, meaning they can delay the promised cleanup effort.

There are ways to reclaim the pollutants.
It costs money. It's all about the money.

The sad thing about Nevada mining is that only about 2 percent of the money stays in the state.Most of these mines are owned by International companies. Sound FAMILIAR? A Foreign company, taking the resources from the locals..LOL

Originally posted by shotsThen go on to list the largest open pit mine in Bingham Canyon passing it off under facts about Gold when it is a copper mine DUH!

It's also a gold mine, so deal with it.

I say you don't much of anything other than playing childish games designed to derail the topic and evade the issues, which are more akin to the tactics of a teenager than a mature adult. You have more a than amply demonstrated your lack of knowledge throughout this thread. I suggest if you want to be known for any knowlege in said topic, you start showing some of it.

Chile's farmers still don't want a gold or copper mine producing tons of toxic waste by their glaciers, and you have yet to prove they do and/or that it won't affect them.

I stopped counting how many times people tried to blow smoke up my rear 30 years ago.

[edit on 14-11-2006 by Regenmacher]

Back to the topic:

Arsenic is NOT a "byproduct" of gold mining.

Arsenic is used in processing to separate gold from rock and soil. So are a bunch of other nasty chemicals.




Oh yeah, GO regenmacher.



Ed to add.

[edit on 14-11-2006 by soficrow]

Originally posted by soficrow
Arsenic is NOT a "byproduct" of gold mining.

I haven't seen the assay for Pascua Lama, but I am sure it would contain arsenopyrite and other arsenical ores, Sofi.

Arsenopyrite wiki

Some Requests And Observations

1. No more personal insults, please. All personal insults are off-topic.

2. The premise of this thread, e.g., "G.H.W. Bush Gold Mine" has been legitimately called into question, and seems to be a ploy used for misdirection. The article alleges he "exerted pressure" in other countries on behalf of Barrick Gold mining. It makes no claim of a direct connection between Bush 41 and this mine whatsoever. So why call it "G.H.W. Bush Gold Mine", other than to mislead?

3. If I'm wrong to see it that way, I invite any member to post some credible evidence supporting claims that George H.W. Bush has a role in the ownership or management of this company. If I'm right, then referring to the mine this way is deliberately misleading.

4. False and misleading statements are contrary to the AboveTopSecret.com Terms And Conditions Of Use.

5. Let's please support our assertions with facts.

6. Yes, gold mines are destructive to the environment. I know. I live in Nevada.*

7. The motto of ATSNN is: Deny Bias. Let's please try to respect that.





P.S. The "poppy picture" is awesome, but looks photoshopped. Am I wrong?


*Edit to clarify: This is an opinion, and I probably shouldn't have lumped it in with the rest, but here in Nevada we do have first-hand experience with toxic chemicals and other environmental effects from mines. However, it is indeed possible to mine gold without laying waste to the environment and poisoning the groundwater. It just costs more money, and the track record for companies spending more money in such cases isn't exactly encouraging. Just sayin'.

[edit on 11/14/2006 by Majic]

Originally posted by Regenmacher

Originally posted by soficrow
Arsenic is NOT a "byproduct" of gold mining.

I haven't seen the assay for Pascua Lama, but I am sure it would contain arsenopyrite and other arsenical ores, Sofi.

Arsenopyrite wiki

Thank you RG. But.

My point is that the quantity of arsenic generated as a byproduct is relatively miniscule compared to the amount imported to the local environment for use in processing.


.


[edit on 14-11-2006 by soficrow]

Originally posted by soficrow
My point is that the quantity of arsenic generated as a byproduct is relatively miniscule compared to the amount imported to the local environment for use in processing.

It's has been my understanding that arsenic is a byproduct of gold mining. I have not seen this process that uses refined arsenic for gold extraction. You sure you don't mean cyanide or mercury?

Roasting Chemicals

Originally posted by Regenmacher

Originally posted by soficrow
My point is that the quantity of arsenic generated as a byproduct is relatively miniscule compared to the amount imported to the local environment for use in processing.

It's has been my understanding that arsenic is a byproduct of gold mining. I have not seen this process that uses refined arsenic for gold extraction. You sure you don't mean cyanide or mercury?

Roasting Chemicals

Info from a PBS or CBC special I recently saw in part. The earth and rock were put in a series of chemical baths, one of which was arsenic. ...Possibly a brain burp - but I remember noting that I too thought arsenic was just a byproduct, and was surprised to learn it was used for extraction.

Journey From The Center Of The Earth

Originally posted by Regenmacher
It's has been my understanding that arsenic is a byproduct of gold mining. I have not seen this process that uses refined arsenic for gold extraction. You sure you don't mean cyanide or mercury?

Aside from the very significant issue of poisonous processing chemicals, mining brings to the surface various potentially hazardous substances which would otherwise remain underground.

In Nevada, for example, one of the consequences of large-scale mining (gold or otherwise -- many operations extract more than one kind of metal from the same mine) is the presence of metals like uranium, lead and other toxic materials in tailing piles and leach ponds which, over time, find their way into groundwater systems and into the air via wind dispersal.

These and other consequences of mining can pose health hazards for neighboring communities -- sometimes very serious hazards.

I don't blame the people of the Huasco valley for being concerned, and I would hope Barrick Mining would be sensitive to these concerns and take action accordingly. I won't assume that they will, but I won't assume that they won't, either.

All that said, I can't help noticing that this article and the controversy are not only environmental, but political.

Abuse of indigenous populations by transnational corporations is hardly anything new or surprising, but neither is the use of the press and Internet to attempt to manipulate public opinion.

In this, as in all things, I recommend skepticism.

Majic -

Here's a bit of info regarding Bush-Barrick connections.

Bush senior was the "Honorary Chairman" of Barrick's "International Advisory Board" from 1995 to 1999. Brian Mulroney (former PM of Canada), Vernon Jordan (FOB), and Howard Baker (now ambassador to Japan) were also on the IAB.

Sources: Barrick Annual reports for 1998 and 1999. Also see;

Bush Sr./Barrick Gold, emk

Articles cited below.

Hamilton Spectator (Ontario, Canada) May 13, 2000 Saturday Final Edition

Copyright 2000 Toronto Star Newspapers, Ltd.
Hamilton Spectator (Ontario, Canada)

May 13, 2000 Saturday Final Edition

SECTION: NEWS; Pg. C11

LENGTH: 2129 words

HEADLINE: Globe-trotting dad's cashing in; George Bush Sr. has been picking up six-figure fees for speeches overseas ... and putting his nose in where he shouldn't. Were he to be handed a new role- father of the president- it would herald a new sensitivity and junior might have to rein in father

SOURCE: The Los Angeles Times

Maclean's, June 1, 1998

Copyright 1998 Maclean Hunter Limited
Maclean's

June 1, 1998

SECTION: DEIRDRE MCMURDY; Pg. 45

LENGTH: 722 words

HEADLINE: Luck and great timing

United Press International May 3, 1995, Wednesday, BC cycle

Copyright 1995 U.P.I.

United Press International

May 3, 1995, Wednesday, BC cycle

SECTION: Domestic News

LENGTH: 184 words

HEADLINE: Bush to head Barrick special panel

DATELINE: TORONTO, May 3

1997 - Some U of Toronto students are PO'd that Bush Senior was given an honorary degree.
Bush-Barrick connection probed

2001 - Interesting but hard to verify. Bush the Elder’s Scheme to Sell Pardons and Get a Payoff – Where is the Outrage Over a 10 Billion Dollar Taxpayer Ripoff?

2003 - Bush’s Barrick Corps drops bombshell. From Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee (GATA), Tuesday 10 June 2003, 1:19a ET

Rainmaker -

Seems arsenic - and other elements - are used as "grain refiners" when processing gold for use in the electronics industry. So glad to know it wasn't another Alzheimer moment.

Gold sulphite electroplating solutions and methods

The use of arsenic as an additive in combination with a carboxylic acid in electroplating bath solutions is known from U.S. Pat. No. 3,776,822. In that patent the gold is utilized in the form of an alkali metal gold sulfite complex, and according to the patentee the combination of the foregoing components in the electroplating bath provides gold deposits with controlled hardness values below 130 Knoop. The metals which may be added to the bath include arsenic, antimony, selenium as well as tellurium. These are provided in the form of their soluble salt. The polycarboxylic acids employed by the patentee include succinic, malonic and oxalic acids as well as their derivatives such as maleic acid. The preferred combination of a polycarboxylic acid and "semi-metal additive" is oxalic acid and arsenic trioxide, respectively. However, the use of arsenic as an additive has certain disadvantages in that it readily oxidizes from the trivalent state to the pentavalent state at which time its usefulness as a brightener/grain refiner ceases. Furthermore, the control of such electroplating bath solutions is very difficult. Conventional analytical procedures only determine the total arsenic content of the bath and do not distinguish between the active trivalent state and the inactive pentavalent state. Thus, despite the fairly developed state of this art there is still a problem to be solved insofar as it would be desirable to have an easily analyzable system where the alkali metal gold sulphite eletrolyte consistently produces a pure, bright, soft gold deposit.

In summary, gold metal deposits from non-cyanide complexes such as alkali metal gold sulphites tend to be hard, e.g. 140 Knoop, when using either thallium or arsenic salts as brighteners/grain refiners. Without these grain refiners, the gold deposits tend to be powdery and of little use to the electronics industry. Nevertheless, the hardness of the gold deposits with either thallium or arsenic metal additives give deposits having hardnesses unacceptable to the semiconductor industry, which generally requires a gold metal purity of about 99.9% and a hardness value below 90 Knoop.

...But that's it for tonight. I'm packing it in now.

Originally posted by Majic
2. The premise of this thread, e.g., "G.H.W. Bush Gold Mine" has been legitimately called into question, and seems to be a ploy used for misdirection. The article alleges he "exerted pressure" in other countries on behalf of Barrick Gold mining. It makes no claim of a direct connection between Bush 41 and this mine whatsoever. So why call it "G.H.W. Bush Gold Mine", other than to mislead?

3. If I'm wrong to see it that way, I invite any member to post some credible evidence supporting claims that George H.W. Bush has a role in the ownership or management of this company. If I'm right, then referring to the mine this way is deliberately misleading.

It's debatable whether Bush Sr. is still involved with Barrick Gold Corp, but his name is pretty synonmous with ABX on the stock boards, so I have no reason to believe he isn't.


Exporting Corporate Control: A Gold Company with Ties to the Bush Family Tries to Muzzle a Muckraking

Bush Sr. Mining Company Goes for the Gold in Chile

Inside story: the Bush gang and Barrick Gold Corporation

Originally posted by Majic
P.S. The "poppy picture" is awesome, but looks photoshopped. Am I wrong?

Poppy field photo came from here and it doesn't have a photoshop header in the jpeg file:
Tomgram: Ann Jones on Bush's Poppy Wars in Afghanistan
(non-profit Prometheus Institute based in Victoria, Canada)
You'd have to email them in regards to if it is altered or not.

Some more stuff with a soldier in the poppy fields:
Here's a strange poppy photo from Getty

Springtime for Killing in Afghanistan NYT

Bush League

Well okay, I won't muck with the thread title then.

But -- and just giving my opinion -- I think the "poppy picture" is 'shopped.

Originally posted by soficrow
Rainmaker -

Seems arsenic - and other elements - are used as "grain refiners" when processing gold for use in the electronics industry. So glad to know it wasn't another Alzheimer moment.

Okay, I just never recalled them using it when processing from the mine and pouring the dore bars, since they try to keep the it free of contaminants and impurities.

What happens a lot of timeswith these mining companies is they extract all they can, close the doors, file bankruptcy and host country gets stuck with the clean up bill. Poor nations like Africa, it just stays as a toxic waste zone and they have some of the worst contaminated water on the globe.

Barrick's recent environmental performance is nothing to crow about:

Barrick Gold has been accused of a number of environmentally unsound practices, as well as illegal trading activities. These include the proposed use of cyanide leach tailing dams for its gold mine project at Lake Cowal, the release of at least seven tons of mercury during 2004-2005 at the Super Pit gold mine near the city of Kalgoorlie-Boulder, Western Australia. wiki

Lot's of stories here:
BARRICK GOLD IN THE NEWS rainforestinfo.org.au

Originally posted by Majic
But -- and just giving my opinion -- I think the "poppy picture" is 'shopped.

Yeah, you and Rockpuck are correct, that photo has been Farked with
Photoshop this boy in an Afghan poppy field fark.com

Here's the original:

File photograph shows 10-year-old Pashtun boy Zinuallah standing near a poppy field, while on his way home, near the outskirts of the southern Afghan city of Kandahar on April 9 last year. Afghan President Hamid Karzai, who is currently on a visit to the US, on Sunday rejected US criticisms of his anti-drug efforts and called international help in the fight ``half-hearted.'' PHOTO: REUTERS

[edit on 15-11-2006 by Regenmacher]

I hereby register an objection to the usage of the term "Ecology" in this thread's title - "messing up the drinking water, displacing people, and such." "Ecology" properly refers to Nature, to disrupting natural cyclic environmental balances, and today is represented by over population and its effects.