It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Can anyone who follows Islamic ideologies explain this to me?

page: 1
0
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Nov, 12 2006 @ 05:42 PM
link   
First let me say that i do not subscribe to the belief any country or religion has it "all right". personally, i believe we all have only a piece of the puzzle when it comes to knowing the divine.

I also ABSOLUTLEY know that not all muslims believe or practice the same traditions and rules of their faith. I do not believe America is a perfect nation, although i do love it. I do not think Iran is a perfect nation, but i do love their people, and know we have many similarities. our mutual need for having control over that which we fear comes to mind, as does a sense of security.

I see how America values other things for their developing youth and children of young ages.

I also see how some middle eastern nations, especially iran, teaches children how to hate the west, and that they must all die. Children are taught this important lesson before they are potty trained. Children are taught this important lesson before they are taught to read or write.

so, my inquiry concerning the laws of islam (in your own words, please) is:
1) why do they value rules that result in the following information presented below?

2) what kind of muslim lessons are learned/taught by the acts committed below?

3) Do you believe this kind of punishment of an 8 year old should exist in our shared planet?

source/link:
www.snopes.com...



An 8 year old child caught stealing bread in a market of Iran is punished in a public place, in the name of Islam!!!

His arm will be crushed and will lose its use permanently. A religion of peace and love, they say? How can anyone believe them when they commit such inhuman acts?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Friends,

My first reaction to these pictures was "I don´t believe this, it must be a photographic trick".

Unfortunately, the truth seems evident, a little boy gets punished because he has stolen bread and they drive a heavy vehicle over his arm ....

What do you do when you receive a series of pictures like this? You ignore them???? Delete and think, thank God I am not living in Iran? This does not happen in my world ....

But the world is OURS - whether we live in Portugal, Sweden or in Iran. OUR children grow up in this world.

I feel helpless but I don´t want to think I received these pictures for no reason. Therefore, let´s use the power of the computer and internet to spread the information around the world. Maybe it can save some children from abuse in the future ...???


*GRAPHIC IMAGES*

www.snopes.com...

www.snopes.com...

www.snopes.com...

www.snopes.com...

www.snopes.com...

www.snopes.com...
What are your thoughts?


again the three questions i am asking besides what your thoughts are about it are:

1) why do they value rules that result in the pictures presented above?

2) what kind of muslim lessons are learned/taught by the acts committed above in the pictures?

3) Do you believe this kind of punishment of an 8 year old should exist in our shared planet?

I thank you all in advance for your contributions!

and i would also like to add:
Not all muslims practice this brand of islam! Nor is their faith without merit!
it may seem harsh to some, understandably. However, you would be very wrong for implying or assigning a general statement to an entire religion which also has different sects, just as christianity does. please contribute, but don't permit your emotions to overwhelm your judgment.


Thanks again,
john

[edit on 12-11-2006 by Esoteric Teacher]

Mod Edit: Image Hotlinking – Please Review This Link.

Mod Edit: Terms & Conditions Of Use – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 12/11/2006 by Mirthful Me]




posted on Nov, 12 2006 @ 05:53 PM
link   
err... whats with the green nasty faces man?

Their society (not religion, or rather, religions spring from societies - their society is reflected into their religion, not society influenced by the religion) still uses alot of old customs, we once used them and now we are watered down and politically correct. They have a different set of customs, a different culture and a different set of values. Cannot blame their system, they have a much, much lower crime rater then the western world. And would you rather every one be just like you??



posted on Nov, 12 2006 @ 07:04 PM
link   
Excuse me Mr. Teacher, you left out the last part of the explanation to the pictures.
From your link above it states:


Origins: The above-displayed photographs have been circulating on the Internet since at least 2004, usually in e-mail forwards that set them in one of several Arab/Muslim areas (e.g., Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Palestinian territories) and claim that the boy pictured is being punished under a harsh sharia law system that imposes a penalty grossly out of proportion to the nature of the crime (i.e., having his arm crushed under a vehicle because he stole a loaf of
bread).

What the photographs actually depict (according to the operator of the site that originally published them) is performers hustling money from onlookers by staging an act, one in which a subject seemingly allows himself to be run over by a heavy vehicle and then emerges unscathed. (Note the man with the microphone in the first picture, who drums up business and describes the action for observers. Also note the blanket placed under the boy's arm — not a consideration persons intent on severely punishing a lawbreaker would be likely to provide.) This a common illusion, variations of which are performed by many magicians and accomplished through a variety of means, with no lasting harm done. That the subject is a small boy who grimaces his way through the stunt is all part of the act, intended to elicit sympathy and extra cash — despite his contorted facial expressions, the boy is not seriously hurt.

You also left out the last picture (showing the boy unhurt after the stunt).

Folks, check it out yourself, I'm not wasting uploadspace on islamophobia.

By the way, the site calls itself Urban Legends Refference Pages



posted on Nov, 12 2006 @ 07:36 PM
link   

Originally posted by Rockpuck
err... whats with the green nasty faces man?

Their society (not religion, or rather, religions spring from societies - their society is reflected into their religion, not society influenced by the religion) still uses alot of old customs, we once used them and now we are watered down and politically correct.


Very good points. of which i agree with. and, i would also like to say: no, i do not believe other societies are far better than iranians. i can only imagine how someone who is sentenced to death in America might feel when they are taking their last walk thinking to themselves how alone they are, and that everyone on this planet has such distain for them to the extent they are pretty much reflecting a thought of "you are not allowed on this planet", when their actions and behaviors demonstrate as much when they utilize "capital punishment". Can you imagine what would be going through a person's mind as the last preparations are being made for their execution, and eviction from a world that has no place for them?

i agree with your logic above, and thanks for your voice.


They have a different set of customs, a different culture and a different set of values. Cannot blame their system, they have a much, much lower crime rater then the western world.


i've spent nearly 3 years in middle eastern countries. i happen to like many of their customs and traditions, and teachings.


And would you rather every one be just like you??


nope. i do not want everyone to be just like me. if everyone were, i would never meet anyone new, nor be surprised by anyone i knew. i wouldn't learn anything knew, as everyone would know the same things i do. i think it would be somewhat of a lonely and boring existance.



posted on Nov, 12 2006 @ 07:45 PM
link   

Originally posted by khunmoon
Excuse me Mr. Teacher, you left out the last part of the explanation to the pictures.
From your link above it states:


I did not leave it out, if i was never aware of it. nor did i see the last picture in the series on three sights i saw. i do however thank you for the contribution, and thank you for correcting my ignorance of the full story. thank you.


You also left out the last picture (showing the boy unhurt after the stunt).


i never knew it existed, which is my excuse for leaving it out, until now:

www.snopes.com...



Folks, check it out yourself, I'm not wasting uploadspace on islamophobia.


islamophobia is a strong word to describe an inquiry, isn't it?

so, how do you feel about girl's getting their cliterous surgically removed right after their first menstral cycle?

Mod Edit: Image Hotlinking – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 12/11/2006 by Mirthful Me]



posted on Nov, 12 2006 @ 07:58 PM
link   
Actually, and upon penalty of death if i am lying, i did not know.

i am in fact very greatfull for you showing me this, and whole heartedly thank you.


"You have voted khunmoon for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.


thanks again,
john.



posted on Nov, 12 2006 @ 08:15 PM
link   
khunmoon,


so, how do you feel about girl's getting their cliterous surgically removed right after their first menstral cycle?

the best explanations i was supplied by my conversations (not judging) is that the female orgasms are a blashemy against Allah. And, yes i do know not all islamic cultures do practice this tradition.

the explanation concerning that the female orgasm is a sin was supplied to me by about a dozen Bahrainian military firefighters, 3 islamic clerics, numerous translators i met in various arab nations i have been to, and hospital workers in iraq, bahrain, kuwait, saudi arabia, oman, qatar, yemen, and djibuti (sp?).

i'm not condemning the practice, it simply is not my place to judge. however, it seems to me that they are (in their minds) improving upon God's creation by correcting God's mistake. By their own words i gather that women should not have orgasms ever, as it is not allowed among some islamic cultures.

Of course, males in western countries are circumsized, although not all. And it is not a law that is enforced, but usually a choice given to the family, right? Also, it is done for many reasons, but does offer better hygeine for a male, and greatly reduces females from getting infections from uncircumsized males with poor hygiene practices who may not clean well enough with excess skin holding in moisture and creating a haven for bacteria in an environment that they multiply at a high rate (dark, moist, and warm). To my best understanding circumsision (sp?) remains in practice to reduce health risks for both genders. where as the female circumsision in a small fraction of muslims is becuase they dissagree with females having orgasms.

khunmoon,
i've already learned a great thing from you today (and yes i am thankfull), and i am interested on your take of both practices in our cultures of altering genetalia, both males and females.

Thanks in advance for your reply,
john.



posted on Nov, 12 2006 @ 09:17 PM
link   
Thank you john,
Forgive me if I used strong words, and that I tend to get angry when I see quoting, incorrect or taken out of consensus.

I've fallen into the pit a few times myself, so I do understand your anger seeing those pictures and reacting before evaluating. Emotions overrules rationals. So, yes, I'm just as appaled by Sheria as any other Western are.

To answer your question about circumsising, I think it's an inhumane practise when applied on females, and unnessacery to males with now-a-days hyginic facilities. I see it as a weapon to surpress female power - nothing less, but the male fear of women.

Let me say your frank responding makes me get a complete different view on your stand than your initial posts gave me. Again foregive my tending to be prejudical.

Last I like to say, I too know the Islamic world first hand. When I was young I traveled North Africa, ME, Afghanistan and India. As for now I reside in a so-called Buddhist country of the Far East, so I dare say I'm familiar with the World Religions.

And what I like to say is, of all the people of different faith I have met, Muslim people sure are the ones with the highest and least uncorrupted morals. Compared to the twisted ones of Hindues and corrupted ones of Buddhists.

This last fact is the hardest for me, because I see myself as a kind of Buddhist. The demonism and superstision they mix it up with actually for me do a very good excercise in detachment.

Though it's nearly forty years ago I did my travels, I don't believe Islam to be as twisted as the Media wants us to believe. Fanatics, yes, but they're not Islam.

-magnus-

p.s. Most hassling people I've ever met must be the Iranians.



posted on Nov, 12 2006 @ 09:33 PM
link   

Originally posted by khunmoon
Thank you john,
Forgive me if I used strong words, and that I tend to get angry when I see quoting, incorrect or taken out of consensus.


i tend to do the same when i see quoting taken out of context. And, i really kick myself hard when i do it, but i assure you i did not know. And, no worries, your words were not too strong considering the content of what i presented. And, by better informing me of the facts, i can assure you i am not offended by the truth. it actually made me happy to know the boy was not seriously hurt or being punished for something too harshly.


I've fallen into the pit a few times myself, so I do understand your anger seeing those pictures and reacting before evaluating. Emotions overrules rationals. So, yes, I'm just as appaled by Sheria as any other Western are.


true words friend! But, i'm not trying to be appaled (sp?), i'm just trying to understand people better.

i thank you for sharing with me your insights. Personnally i see truth in all the religions and all the faiths. i see far more in common between them than i see differences, and most of the time i wonder why people don't focus on the similarities rather than the differences. you do offer some valuable insight, and i thank you for being you and showing me a new thing. thanks again, learning something new everyday helps me sleep better a night.


p.s. Most hassling people I've ever met must be the Iranians.


I'm still learning about them. And i havn't met alot of them, but we are all alot more alike inside than the world would have us believe, i believe.

you said something about the media. i have a theory that i know some share with me. i think the media does not always have peoples best interests at heart. it seems to me like they make more money if they report on more things that are negative and create more fear.

some food for thought:
North
East
West
South

four cardinal directions that the four horseman are associated with?
NEWS?



posted on Nov, 12 2006 @ 09:50 PM
link   
Surely anyone can see Iran is an authoritarian state that uses religion for political purposes? I think it’s really bad to associate these kinds of acts with Islam; it just prays on people’s ignorance. I thought the only other people that associates these kinds of acts with Islam is Iran&Friends@ReligiousExtremism.Indoctrination

To drive home the point where does the Korean dictate children should have their arms crushed by a jeep, or…

so, how do you feel about girl's getting their cliterous surgically removed right after their first menstral cycle?

Well I hope you’re an ignorant teacher as that makes a better excuse; see I have some questions…

Why…
1. In spite of khunoon replies did you go on to create a duplicate thread hear?
www.abovetopsecret.com...
2. Why despite khunmoon warning did you not mention that your threads opening topic had been staged? Surely this shows a little disrespect for the general evolution of ideas and opinions? And who are you to deliberately corrupt other peoples views with ignorance? Oh and do you hope that there isn’t an afterlife encase you fail to leave the world a richer place?
3. Why did you post a duplicate thread anyway (or are you still not accustomed to ATS rules) and do you not feel a bit sorry for the War on Terror peoples time you wasted now the threads had to be shut down; and can’t turn into a proper debate.
4. In which year did you win the ATS Way Above Award; and do you think you won it fairly?
5. Are you part of a deliberate disinformation campaign? Do you want there to be a war with Iran? Are you a friend of Israel’s by any chance?

Because (thanks to the “free evolution of ideas”) I came to realise that Iran already has enough biological weapons pointing at that state to kill a few million of their only 6.25 million people. I realised that with only a few million spare barrels of oil capacity a war with Iran could easily create a recession worse than Wall Street. That even without us attacking them they can use professional terrorists to create as much mess as they need without necessarily resorting to official violence.

Warning…
This is a problem for any semi totalitarian method such as disinformation…
Because no human being is all knowing and all right these methods are counterproductive. People get things wrong enough; never mind the added mistakes of individuals, states and other entities. And in any system only a little needs to go wrong to brake-pervert the entire function.
The World is a poor cauldron of ideas because of authoritarianism expressed through the state of because of religion. The West by contrast is relatively uncontaminated; please don’t contaminate it, overall it will harm the interests of all (in the end).

P.S Surely if logic almighty dictates there’s such good cause to Invade Iran; we don’t need disinformation?



posted on Nov, 12 2006 @ 09:50 PM
link   
Teachr:




so, how do you feel about girl's getting their cliterous surgically removed right after their first menstral cycle?


To my knowledge that is not a Middle Eastern custom.. A predominantly African custom is what I thought.. not ME? Or in anyway related to Islam.




the best explanations i was supplied by my conversations (not judging) is that the female orgasms are a blashemy against Allah. And, yes i do know not all islamic cultures do practice this tradition.

Again, I have never EVER heard this before, where did you hear such a thing?





the explanation concerning that the female orgasm is a sin was supplied to me by about a dozen Bahrainian military firefighters, 3 islamic clerics, numerous translators i met in various arab nations i have been to, and hospital workers in iraq, bahrain, kuwait, saudi arabia, oman, qatar, yemen, and djibuti


So based on your own credibility?





i'm not condemning the practice, it simply is not my place to judge. however, it seems to me that they are (in their minds) improving upon God's creation by correcting God's mistake. By their own words i gather that women should not have orgasms ever, as it is not allowed among some islamic cultures.


The practise is barbaric in any culture, it is a male dominance trait, males having sexual control over all family members and is condemned on the international level.




Of course, males in western countries are circumsized, although not all. And it is not a law that is enforced, but usually a choice given to the family, right? Also, it is done for many reasons, but does offer better hygeine for a male, and greatly reduces females from getting infections from uncircumsized males with poor hygiene practices who may not clean well enough with excess skin holding in moisture and creating a haven for bacteria in an environment that they multiply at a high rate (dark, moist, and warm). To my best understanding circumsision (sp?) remains in practice to reduce health risks for both genders. where as the female circumsision in a small fraction of muslims is becuase they dissagree with females having orgasms.


Will you explain to me how you went from posting a story about how Muslims are cruel for crushing a boys arms, even though the source link was from a urban legend busting website that blatantly says it is a fabrication to your apparent obsession with clitoris's and circumcised penis's?



and i am interested on your take of both practices in our cultures of altering genetalia, both males and females.


Male circumcision is not some kind of weird practise only in the Middle East? Female circumcisions are more often done in malice and are not needed, which is why the western world practises it on males and not females.



posted on Nov, 12 2006 @ 09:57 PM
link   

some food for thought:
North
East
West
South

four cardinal directions that the four horseman are associated with?
NEWS?


What in the world are you rambling about? This post is so off topic it isnt funny!



posted on Nov, 13 2006 @ 12:46 AM
link   

Originally posted by Liberal1984

To drive home the point where does the Korean dictate children should have their arms crushed by a jeep, or…

so, how do you feel about girl's getting their cliterous surgically removed right after their first menstral cycle?

Well I hope you’re an ignorant teacher as that makes a better excuse; see I have some questions…

Why…
1. In spite of khunoon replies did you go on to create a duplicate thread hear?
www.abovetopsecret.com...


Um. no, i did not create a duplicate thread there, however i did introduce the same material to both threads.

in the thread you saw as a duplicate i also proved that in accordance with:
1) the constitution of the united states of america
2) the oath of enlistment taken by all members of the U.S. armed forces
3) the core values of branches of the armed services
4) the disregard for the constitution of the united states of america implemented when we engaged in war against both Afghanistan and Iraq

given the above 4 reasons, all members of the armed services of the united states of america are currently in violation of 1) their oaths of enlistment 2) their core values 3) the constitution of the united states of america.

and given that all service men and women swore or affirmed to god that they would "defend the constitution of the united states of america against all enemies foriegn and domestic", in order to fullfill their oaths and their contract they should at this very moment be at war with their own government and the people who elected them, because they have not abided by the rules in which we are to engage in war.

so, no. since i have not introduced all the same information in this thread concerning how the american government's policies are not made in accordance to what americans' policies are, they are not identical threads. But, had you read the entire thread before endulging yourself to form an opinion based on partial knowledge, you may have known that. but that subject matter doesn't really belong in this thread given the title of this thread. so, again: no they were not intended to be identical threads.


2. Why despite khunmoon warning did you not mention that your threads opening topic had been staged?


please supply the proof i had been told that the opening topic had been staged prior to me posting the introduction.


Surely this shows a little disrespect for the general evolution of ideas and opinions?


yes, i often show very little disrespect for the general evolution of ideas and opinions.


And who are you to deliberately corrupt other peoples views with ignorance? Oh and do you hope that there isn’t an afterlife encase you fail to leave the world a richer place?


I'm sorry. but you have failed to provide any evidence that i deliberately corrupted anyone with ignorance.

you said:


And who are you to deliberately corrupt other peoples views with ignorance? Oh and do you hope that there isn’t an afterlife encase you fail to leave the world a richer place?


Well then. My name is Staff Sergeant John P. G., United States Air Force. I have been a firefighter in the USAF since June of 1998. I have spent over 3 years of my life in war zones in third world countries and could tell you true stories that would probably make you not sleep for at least a month.

prior to my last 8 1/2 years as a firefighter in the United States Air Force i spent 12 years working with skilled cared developmentally dissabled children in a facility that took the kind of children that needed so much help that no other facility of its kind exixted in Illinois, Wisconsin, Indiana, Iowa, or Missouri. Most of the children had more problems than you are probably aware even exist, so i'll leave those details out.

so, between me and what ever after life may be is between me and my creator. What have you been doing for the past 21 years? How much do you do to serve others before you take care of your wants and needs? How many times have you stood and fought a fire at 1:00 in the morning that was 30 feet above your head with 6 hellfire missiles and 8 crates of chaffs and flares at your feet in order to ensure a dozen firefighters don't die while mortars are exploding within 100 yards of your position? How many bullets have you plucked out of muslim's trying to save their lives? How many children have died in your arms as you gave them CPR?



3. Why did you post a duplicate thread anyway (or are you still not accustomed to ATS rules) and do you not feel a bit sorry for the War on Terror peoples time you wasted now the threads had to be shut down; and can’t turn into a proper debate.


What duplicate thread? the one you didn't really read?


4. In which year did you win the ATS Way Above Award; and do you think you won it fairly?


Nope, i think i cheated and gave myself all my 3 votes last month, which was enough apparently.


5. Are you part of a deliberate disinformation campaign? Do you want there to be a war with Iran? Are you a friend of Israel’s by any chance?


Did you read the thread you claim is a duplicate by chance? ya know, the one that proves what america is doing is illegal?


thanks for your contribution. it was enlightening.

[edit on 13-11-2006 by Esoteric Teacher]



posted on Nov, 13 2006 @ 12:56 AM
link   

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Teachr:




so, how do you feel about girl's getting their cliterous surgically removed right after their first menstral cycle?


To my knowledge that is not a Middle Eastern custom.. A predominantly African custom is what I thought.. not ME? Or in anyway related to Islam.


I told you my sources, and who i talked to about it. i was told it was practiced in those countries by people from those countries, of which i spent time in. i listed the countries in a previous post, and i am convinced i was not being lied to by those people, some of which were hospital employees who took the time to explain the reasoning and the specifics of the proceedure. Also, you are right, it is performed in Africa, but again mostly by muslims who live in islamic countries in africa.





Again, I have never EVER heard this before, where did you hear such a thing?

So based on your own credibility?



i don't feel any need to debate my credibility. go there yourself and ask around.




Will you explain to me how you went from posting a story about how Muslims are cruel for crushing a boys arms, even though the source link was from a urban legend busting website that blatantly says it is a fabrication to your apparent obsession with clitoris's and circumcised penis's?


Did you read the title of the thread? Does this issue not fit into the parameters of the title of this thread?????

This thread is about asking about islamic culture, and practices. and one of the practices some muslim societies do inforce as a law is to cut off the clitoris of young women right after their first menstral cycle. this is a fact, not fabrication.


[edit on 13-11-2006 by Esoteric Teacher]



posted on Nov, 13 2006 @ 09:25 AM
link   
Esoteric I believe that is just one example of 'Islamic justice' in the middle-east. This is the kind of thing happens on a daily basis and somehow people like to turn it around and blame it on Israel. But aside from that, you can find such atrocities reported by their own sources. And many of these sources have also been under attack by the militant jihadists.

just a few examples of 'Islamic justice':

www.aina.org...
news.ninemsn.com.au...
www.theaustralian.news.com.au...

What unites all these atrocities is the Islamic Extremist ideology. This sets it apart from crimes that committed by individuals in other parts of the world. Islamic extremism is faced across the globe and the acts of terrorism are fueled by the Jihadist movement.



posted on Nov, 13 2006 @ 08:08 PM
link   
Hate having to say this but I’ve made a big mistake…

This Thread: Posted 12-11-06 at 0.542 P.M
Khunmoon reply: 12-11-06 at 07.04 P.M (debunked)
Esoteric Teacher first reply at 12-11-06 at 07:36 P.M

Closed “duplicate” War on Terror thread posted: 12-11-06 at 05:06
nowthenlookhere 12-11-06 at 06.43 (debunked)
Khunmoon reply at 12-11-06 at 07.27 (debunked)
Esoteric Teacher War on Terror thread admission at: 12-11-06 07.55

So
By 07:36 P.M Esoteric Teacher saw his thread was debunked.
By 07.55 he has admitted it on the War on Terror.

Nice work.
So, sorry for saying you deliberately spread disinformation; looks as though you made a genuine mistake. For my part I also made a genuine mistake (somehow I thought you had posted a reply to the contrary after you knew it was debunked).
You didn’t…
But had your 07.55 reply still be in denial (which you couldn’t have given nowthenlookhere 06.43 reply) then you would be in trouble as you saw Khunmoon’s debunk by 07.36. This is what I thought had happened so really sorry for the mistake and the offence caused.

Back To Topic…
I still think these barbaric practices have more to with politics than religion. Where exactly does the Korean call them religious punishments? If we knew that then we could at least call them “religious crime and punishment”. Without that I'm sceptical. However (assuming they are religious punishments) those who follow them are surely religious fundamentalist barbarians? I say this as it’s certainly not the practice of every Muslim-country (at least the secular ones).

Note: Of course its religious fundamentalist’s everywhere who cause the most trouble.



posted on Nov, 13 2006 @ 09:28 PM
link   
Well, let Esoteric Teacher's mistake rest and go on.
What is tought from it is ... don't take any source for granted, scrutenize it well before you believe it. Keep a cool heart and a calm head, when you surf the net, don't believe anything unless you doublecheck.

Allow me to say, I don't wanna be a debunker, but I admit to be a fierce fighter for just course, so when I see incorrectness I have to object. John has admitted his mistake and I'm glad you, Liberal now have proven it to be nothing but that.

Let's get to the topic!

About Sheria, I like to throw in what to me seems its most cruel practize: Stoning!
The perpetrator burried up to the neck, and stones are thrown at the head. Stones not to big, to ensure pain and a slow death.

Now, I DON'T WANT anybody to go find images of the practize.

It's a no-sense question to ask WHY anyone can do like that, but HOW??

Cruel practises of punishment is, or have been a part of all cultures, but why do the Islamic one still practize something that in ours are ascribed to medivial times?

What kind of psychological mechnism is it, that makes man finds joy in mutilating his fellow man?



posted on Nov, 14 2006 @ 12:16 PM
link   
Liberal1984,

Apology accepted. i know it's hard to admit when you've made a mistake, but with practice it does become easier. How do i know? i have had to do it many times myself (admit i made a mistake).

in short, thanks for taking the time to help defend my ignorance, and help me grow from it.



You have voted Liberal1984 for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have used all of your votes for this month.



posted on Nov, 15 2006 @ 12:50 PM
link   

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
islamophobia is a strong word to describe an inquiry, isn't it?

The page itself says that this never happened, infact its an urban legend that is perpetuated by islamophobia. We think that muslims are savages, so we are ready to accept that they do this, even when, its plainly stated on the page, from a website that is known for successfully debunking urban myths, that it never happened.

So yea, in all honesty, islamophobia isn't too strong of a word. You've uncritically accepted this story, because it conforms to your expectations, that the islamic religion is especially brutal. Perhaps you should consider this a learning experience, a 'message' that you've been needlessly critical of islam, or that you've been listening to ignorance rather than knowledge on the matter.


so, how do you feel about girl's getting their cliterous surgically removed right after their first menstral cycle?

This is a perfect example. Islam does not require women to have their cliteris removed.
Female Genital Mutilation is a pre-islamic cultural practice. People in and around the horn of africa do it. It is practiced by christians AND muslims. APparently, when people talked to the prophet mohammed about it, he said not to mutliate the genitals, but recognizing that this is a cultural practice that is important to its people, suggested that they remove the clitoral hood, this is not genital mutilation, and is analagous to the removal of the foreskin in male circumcision, which mohammed also permited.
Thus, muslims don't need to explain anything here, the overwhelmingly don't practice it, and the koran and hadiths tend to discourage it.

the best explanations i was supplied by my conversations (not judging) is that the female orgasms are a blashemy against Allah

There is nothing in the koran that suggests this.

the female orgasm is a sin was supplied to me by about a dozen Bahrainian military firefighters, 3 islamic clerics, numerous translators i met in various arab nations i have been to, and hospital workers in iraq, bahrain, kuwait, saudi arabia, oman, qatar, yemen, and djibuti (sp?).

And you will find christians who beleive the same thing. There are stupid people in every religion.

[edit on 15-11-2006 by Nygdan]



posted on Nov, 16 2006 @ 12:56 AM
link   
About stoning -- yeah it's extremely harsh. Now I'm not a foremost expert on Islam but I was raised a muslim and I have gone to Islamic Studies classes in school. So I am aware of that practice (stoning).

Anyways, if I'm not wrong, stoning is the punishment for adulterers. However, if you look further into the law (as regards to adultery) you will find that it's pretty hard to execute. For one thing you need four live witnesses. That is, the witnesses must have seen the act committed in front of their very eyes. Not through a camera, but with their very own eyes. As you can imagine it would be very hard to get even one witness under those circumstances.

Please note that I could be wrong. Sharia is not implemented here and after school I haven't read up on any of it anymore. And school ended years ago.

Now in answering the questions in the OP, for Q1, Sharia is not practiced in all muslim countries. And in those that do, they don't practice all of it. For example in Malaysia Sharia is implemented only for muslims, and even so Hudud is not implemented (the gruesome punishment bit -- chopping off the hands, stoning, etc.) The result is the country is more or less like every other South East Asian country. That is to say, if any law seems strict, it because this country is an ASEAN country, not because it's a muslim country.

Another example I can give is Qatar, where only parts of Hudud is implemented -- the chopping bit, but not the stoning, on account of there being a lot of tourist, ineveitably doing the nasty back at the hotel. As a consequence, theft in that country is almost non-existent. The law makes for a very very strong deterrent. You can leave yor wallet or a suticase full of cash on the table of a cafe in the morning and come back later in the evening. Nothing would have been touched. It's remarkable.

I suppose that would somewhat answer Q2. That such laws serve as a sort of deterrent. There may be more but it's 35 degrees Celsius outside and I have no air-conditioning. My brain is slowing down and I feel like now is a good time for a siesta.

As for Q3, my answer is NO, and in fact, even under Sharia it would be NO (as far as I'm aware of it). An 8-year-old would not have hit puberty yet, therefore the parents are accountable for his actions. I'm not sure what happens next then.

Anyway, I hope this sheds some light into you inquiry. Now, about that siesta....



new topics

top topics



 
0
<<   2 >>

log in

join