This is by far the most dangerous thread ATS has ever had on it's board. I've decided i'm not even going to touch on this.

*Aaron Russo's "America: Freedom to Fascism"

[edit on 11-11-2006 by jaguarmike]

How is it dangerous? THere've been lots of threads discussing that The Fed is bad, that we should use gold for our money, etc etc.

Awesome thread.

Bout' time someone put it together like this. Peoples ignorance and apathy got us where we are today.

It would be cool if the American people would wake up enough to 'take back' our country from these parasites but I'm sure there will be some sort of 'distraction' or 'terror attack' WAY before that ever happened.

The globalists 'Antichrist' spirit is alive and well and considers us 'mindless cattle' that's only good enough for slavery.

The one consolance I have is that the Bible is pretty clear: These inbred, toothless worms are going to get whats coming to them in the end. Wonder if they even realize this? Probably not considering they are to busy buying in to the lies and delusions of the Devil, you know, making their little oaths in their little satanic societies.

Using Bush as an example.. I'm sure he himself doesn't even realize the spiritual implications of that 'little' skull and bones ritual and oath he (and all his other minions) participated in.

It's all unfolding as it should, just keep your self straight with the Lord and all will be well.

Ps 91:1 He that dwelleth in the SECRET PLACE of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty. Happy is he whose resting-place is in the secret of the Lord, and under the shade of the wings of the Most High;

Ps 91:2 I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust. Who says of the Lord, He is my safe place and my tower of strength: he is my God, in whom is my hope.

Ps 91:3 Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence. He will take you out of the bird-net, and keep you safe from wasting disease.

Ps 91:4 He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler. You will be covered by his feathers; under his wings you will be safe: his good faith will be your salvation.

Ps 91:5 Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day; You will have no fear of the evil things of the night, or of the arrow in flight by day,

Ps 91:6 Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday. Or of the disease which takes men in the dark, or of the destruction which makes waste when the sun is high.

Ps 91:7 A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.

Didn't mean to be so doom and gloom in the last post but I'm so worn out over 'this'. I'm definitely not going to stop living but if I think about it too much it really just @#$% me off.

Just like in another thread.. most people have their heads so far up their economic rear ends that they can't get the big picture and have not clue what's really going on.


I do have one question though:

It's pretty obvious and the writing is on the wall where everthing is 'headed' but I wonder what other people think can be done about this aside from some huge nasty civil war? This is an age old problem that's been rolling along since 'way back when' and I just don't see 'it' ending until the whole shebang winds up in the pits of hell itself.

The first step to any kind of change is educating those that can make the most difference, the American People. Once they hear this, they'll all start collectively complaining at their Congressmen to fix it, and if they don't, then the People will react accordingly. The main problem is getting the word out there fast enough, and convincing the People that it's something that they should be worried about. Show an American why paying an Income Tax is Constitutionally illegal, and you'll have a comrade.

Make the alliance of the American People, and change is assured.

Let them continue in their complacency, and lose what little leverage you had to make change.

TheBorg

Originally posted by MystikMushroom
This also ties into the whole 16th ammendment not being legally ratified by the required 36 states, but only 27 (legally varifyable)...

Can I just say here... I don't think it's a good idea to "tie" too many different issues into one like that. It's not a whole load different from the idea of politicians adding "riders" to bills... a sort of "if you accept this, you have to accept that too". if someone reading happens to have specialist knowledge, or inside info, or whatever reason to doubt one of the conspiracy theories, they're going to find it hard to believe the others... just as some of the more outrageous 911 conspiracy theories end up discrediting the more reasonable ones in the eyes of the public.

Not being an legal expert, I have no informed opinion on the IRS/ federal tax issue... and with regards the NWO international cabal theory... well given the level of skullduggery, greed and plotting that has always gone on at the highest levels of power throughout history, I've no reason not to think that many of the worlds problems are attributable to just such people..

But the more theories one is asked to accept together, the more chance the is that someone will spot a glaring hole in one of those theories and assume the rest are invalid too.

One should really divide, to conquer. Pursue each individual issue as a separate case, and let the reader decided what links to what, it would lead to more focused discussion if nothing else IMHO.. that's my view anyway. take it for what you think it's worth.

Originally posted by In nothing we trust
How could so many people accept a lie as the truth?

Because the 16th ammendment is legal. It was ratified, people allege that it wasn't, they say that there were problems with the ratification process. Thats completely different from it actually being as such. They've never been able to demonstrate in court or congress that it wasn't legally ratified.

viewfromthestars
It would be cool if the American people would wake up enough to 'take back' our country from these parasites

What parasites? The IRS? The vast majority of the people complain about paying taxes, and then happily and wholeheartedly make use of the services provided by tax-collection, heck, they have entire political struggles to make sure that those taxes continue to be collected and those services continue to be doled out.
The same goes for the fed and having our money being artificial and not tied to the wildly fluctuating gold market. Having it tied to gold only makes us more vulnerable, and more open to manipulation, because its a market. Imagine "Enron", but over gold, and thus the basis for all money in the world. Or consider the instability that we had in the past, compared to the solid value of money in modern times.

What parasites? The IRS? The vast majority of the people complain about paying taxes, and then happily and wholeheartedly make use of the services provided by tax-collection, heck, they have entire political struggles to make sure that those taxes continue to be collected and those services continue to be doled out.

This is the problem... You think just because we have a problem with FEDERAL income taxes that we have a problem with ALL taxes. You are wrong and stop trying to stuff everyone into your little "box".

Watch Aaron Russo's America: Freedom to Fascism and then come back here to debate the points.


Right now I'm looking into a couple of the several Supreme Court decisions that state clearly that the 16th amendment conferred NO NEW POWER OF TAXATION.

They are:

United States Supreme Court, Stanton v. Baltic Mining Co., 240 U.S. 103 (1916)

"The provisions of the Sixteenth Amendment conferred no new power of taxation . . ."

United States Supreme Court, Peck v. Lowe, 247 U.S. 165 (1918)

“The Sixteenth Amendment, although referred to in argument, has no real bearing and may be put out of view. As pointed out in recent decisions, it does not extend the taxing power to new or excepted subjects...”


I don't have a problem with paying taxes, as long as it's constitutional.

The federal income tax is unconstitutional, I don't care what the "16th amendment" says.

You might not care of these international bankers rob your labor and steal you blind but I DO care.

Brothers,
I implore you to resist all illuminati and the evil ways. They are building strength at record numbers and we must fight for our civility. If we stand by and watch our world crumble we will perish in defeat. The ads on this page could be subliminally demoralizing you as I write this message. I take great risk in spending time here I must go for now.

Stay strong and spread the word.

Originally posted by Nygdan
The same goes for the fed and having our money being artificial and not tied to the wildly fluctuating gold market. Having it tied to gold only makes us more vulnerable, and more open to manipulation, because its a market. Imagine "Enron", but over gold, and thus the basis for all money in the world. Or consider the instability that we had in the past, compared to the solid value of money in modern times.

And that's just it Nygdan, there's no basis for any of the money in the US. What true stability do we have when the government can come along and just make more money willy-nilly? Why are we in any kind of an economic slump, when they can make more money, or simply erase the debt at a moment's notice?

I guess what I'm really wondering now is, what's our currency really based on, if not for gold? And don't say it's based on credit, since that's an imaginary source of currency.

TheBorg

Originally posted by nowthenlookhere

Originally posted by MystikMushroom
This also ties into the whole 16th ammendment not being legally ratified by the required 36 states, but only 27 (legally varifyable)...

Can I just say here... I don't think it's a good idea to "tie" too many different issues into one like that. It's not a whole load different from the idea of politicians adding "riders" to bills... a sort of "if you accept this, you have to accept that too". if someone reading happens to have specialist knowledge, or inside info, or whatever reason to doubt one of the conspiracy theories, they're going to find it hard to believe the others... just as some of the more outrageous 911 conspiracy theories end up discrediting the more reasonable ones in the eyes of the public.

Not being an legal expert, I have no informed opinion on the IRS/ federal tax issue... and with regards the NWO international cabal theory... well given the level of skullduggery, greed and plotting that has always gone on at the highest levels of power throughout history, I've no reason not to think that many of the worlds problems are attributable to just such people..

But the more theories one is asked to accept together, the more chance the is that someone will spot a glaring hole in one of those theories and assume the rest are invalid too.

One should really divide, to conquer. Pursue each individual issue as a separate case, and let the reader decided what links to what, it would lead to more focused discussion if nothing else IMHO.. that's my view anyway. take it for what you think it's worth.

Wow great post! They divide and conquer the world, why not use their method? No one can tackle a problem as big as this face to face on all fronts- you have to select strategic movements to expose the truth. The crazy part is that without the IRS, none of the NWO plans would work according to their schedule. Now playing devils advocate here, the game is not won if the IRS was shut down by the congress- there are still ways the NWO could solidify power, albeit the strategies are gloomy. If you informed the American public about how there is no requirement to pay income tax according to the Constitution, and learned why Woodrow Wilson set up the system, and then his final quotes- you'd have thousands marching on washington by tomorrow, twice as many the next.

Think about it, the only reason the IRS can sustain power besides the law is the fact that they will kick down your door with guns drawn if needbe. Brute force overriding law of America. This is un-American, and un-Constitutional.

Demand an audit of America's gold supply kept by the government!

Aaron Russo: Freedom to Fascism

[edit on 14-11-2006 by jaguarmike]

Originally posted by ViewFromTheStars
You are wrong and stop trying to stuff everyone into your little "box".

I'm not stuffing anyone into boxes.

Watch Aaron Russo's America: Freedom to Fascism and then come back here to debate the points.

This thread is not about some buy named arron russo or his video.

Right now I'm looking into a couple of the several Supreme Court decisions that state clearly that the 16th amendment conferred NO NEW POWER OF TAXATION.

THat means that they are saying that the ability of the federal government to tax people isn't new.

As pointed out in recent decisions, it does not extend the taxing power to new or excepted subjects...”

theborg
What true stability do we have when the government can come along and just make more money willy-nilly?

My problem here is that things are pretty clearly more stable, more profitable, and overall better for people under this working than under the greenback system, or having the currency tied to the value of gold, etc.

what's our currency really based on, if not for gold?

Who cares? It has value. Whats 'gold's worth' really based on? I can't do anything with gold, its a dense semi-soft yellowish metal. Big Whoop. The american indians used clam shells for their business transactions, why can't we use fiat currency?

And don't say it's based on credit, since that's an imaginary source of currency.

Everything in finance is imaginary. Stocks are abstract markers of 'percentage of ownership', what the heck does that mean in reality? Why is money that is tied to credit worse than money that is tied to gold? When countries go off the gold standard and have responsible fiscal policies, they do great. So what do the abstractions really matter?

the only reason the IRS can sustain power besides the law is the fact that they will kick down your door with guns drawn if needbe

All law has behind it that threat. Who would pay taxes if there was no actual ability for the government to collect?? Who would pay for anything if there wasn't ultimately a threat of violence?

Demand an audit of America's gold supply kept by the government!

Why? Who cares about the gold.

Originally posted by TheBorg
... there's no basis for any of the money in the US. What true stability do we have when the government can come along and just make more money willy-nilly? Why are we in any kind of an economic slump, when they can make more money, or simply erase the debt at a moment's notice?

I guess what I'm really wondering now is, what's our currency really based on, if not for gold?

The dollar is just a piece of paper. In itself it has no value what so ever.

What gives it value is people's belief that it is worth something or nothing what so ever. Together we can increase or decrease the value of the dollar just by thinking about it.


[edit on 14-11-2006 by In nothing we trust]

Originally posted by jaguarmike
This is by far the most dangerous thread ATS has ever had on it's board. I've decided i'm not even going to touch on this.
[edit on 11-11-2006 by jaguarmike]

Except for the alien invasion and their true intentions... this is the real deal, the real scam the real conspiracy.. the using of the financial system to enslave every human being in the matrix.

I still think this is the real reason that JFK was murdered above all the myriad other reasons offered.

Great vids and I really enjoyed them!

Originally posted by Nygdan

theborg
What true stability do we have when the government can come along and just make more money willy-nilly?

My problem here is that things are pretty clearly more stable, more profitable, and overall better for people under this working than under the greenback system, or having the currency tied to the value of gold, etc.

But being tied to something completely imaginary is a good thing how? How can there be any kind of debt, when there's nothing to base it on? I understand the concept of currency and it's fluctuating, but not the tying it to something that doesn't exist. At least being tied to gold, there's some way of guaging just how much we should be inflating the American Dollar. So my question still stands, what kind of stability do we have when we base the values of things off of nothing?

Under this pretense, I can do so much more harm than good that it's detrimental to everyone's situation. For example, I could just say that by racking up huge amounts of "debt" that I incur no such "debt" because it's not based on anything. True, it's a very lame argument, and it'd never hold up cause I can't lie worth anything, but it illustrates my point.

what's our currency really based on, if not for gold?

Who cares?

You should, since it's what determines how much that ever small dollar in your pocket is really worth.

It has value. Whats 'gold's worth' really based on?

The quantity that we have circulating in the American market and being stored in Fort Knox.

I can't do anything with gold, its a dense semi-soft yellowish metal. Big Whoop. The american indians used clam shells for their business transactions, why can't we use fiat currency?

Because it's not based on anything, that's why. This is going into an economical argument, and it's kind of taking away from the rest of the debate. We can debate this in another thread if you'd like.

And don't say it's based on credit, since that's an imaginary source of currency.

Everything in finance is imaginary. Stocks are abstract markers of 'percentage of ownership', what the heck does that mean in reality?

Stocks are not currency. They are, as you stated, markers of ownership; not to be confused with currency. You have to buy them just like anything else, so they can be imaginary if the company that sells them wants them to be. So long as the people purchasing it are okay with it. It's more of a status symbol in a company rather than a label of wealth. Please, let's not confuse the two.

Why is money that is tied to credit worse than money that is tied to gold?

As I stated above, it's because credit has no value, while gold does.

When countries go off the gold standard and have responsible fiscal policies, they do great. So what do the abstractions really matter?

They matter because without a basis to work from, the entire economic system is damned to collapse at a moment's notice. It's susceptable to computer error, while the gold sitting in Fort Knox is untamperable, so long as the guards don't go to sleep on the job.

Demand an audit of America's gold supply kept by the government!

Why? Who cares about the gold.

You should, and that's why this system of their's has been allowed to be sustained as long as it has. People have become complacent to the notions of credit, and a great deal of other things as well.

In closing, let me ask you one question. If the nation's economy is no longer dependant on gold as a basis for the national dollar's value, then why does the Federal Government still keep all of it's Reserve of gold under tight, armed-guard security? By everything that you've stated, there should be no reason for that, right??? RIGHT???

TheBorg